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(generated from captions) easy... APPLAUSE The support has been incredible so thank

you. Good morning again. It's

Monday, 9 July. I'm Andrew Geoghegan. I'm Karina Carvalho.

The Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is under attack after admitting turning back asylum-seeker boats could be

dangerous amps the debate

continues, another 28 asylum

seekers are on their way to

Christmas Island after arriving

at the Cocos Islands

yesterday. The Opposition is

refusing to take part in the Prime Minister's reference

group on the issue and is defending a key plank of its

own policy. Every single boat

from Indonesia is carrying

people who got themselves to

Indonesia. Now, cha chose to

put themselves in Indonesia and

if the boats go back that's

where they'll be. On the ABC

today you mentioned that towing

back boats is dangerous for our

Defence Force men and women so

it's dangerous for our Defence

Force men and women, why is it

still Coalition policy? Sure,

it's difficult work. No doubt

about that. But they sign unto

do difficult work on behalf of

our country and the most

dangerous thing of all for

everyone, including boat

people, is to continue this

disastrous situation at our

borders when people are putting

to sea in leaky boats. As long

as the boats keep coming, the

tragedies will keep happening.

That's the danger I want to

avert. Thong. That's Tony

Abbott. The Greens Senator

Sarah Hanson Young joins us now from Adelaide and Senator, Tony Abbott's made it clear that the

Opposition won't be joining

this reference group so it's

really up to your party to come

up with some workable policy

with the Government. What

concessions are you prepared to

make? I've been in Indonesia

just over the last week, I got

back on Saturday y was there on

the ground looking at what

really could be done to stop

people taking those dangerous

boat journeys in the first

place and overwhelmingly the

response from the experts who work with refugees on had

ground, the various agencies,

the UN HCR, the IOM and

refugees themselves that I

spoke to said if they were

offer ed faster processing of

their claims by the UN HCR in

Indonesia with some hope of

resettlement to a safer country

that actually that is what

stops people taking those

dangerous boat journeys. There

was a direct correlation quyp

months ago when Australia

increased - 18 months ago when

Australia increased for the

first time a one-off increase

from Indonesia and it direct ly

correlate would the reduction

of numbers of people boarding

boats so that has worked in the

past. We're also looking at the

options that worked under the

Fraser Government which there was an influx of people needing

protection in the region and

how we work together assessing

their claims before they had to

take leaky boats and then

resettled them not just here in

Australia but around the world. So they're the types of options

that should be on the table.

That's very different than

these crude punitive approach of punishing people simply

because they arrive in Australia asking for our

help Is speeding up the

processing really going to

deter the people smugglers?

Well, it deters the desperation

of people who - the reason

people take these boats is they

feel they have no other option

and if the people smugglers

can't prey on that desperation,

if people have hope that they

have a safer option then that's

the safer option they'll take.

The mothers and fathers of

refugee children and their

families that I spoke to while

in Indonesia don't want to have

to go on boats. They pleaded

with me that they didn't want

to have to take those dangerous

boat journeys. Unfortunately at

the moment there is a sense

that they have no other option,

that there is no hope. Australia has reduced the

number of people we're taking directly from Indonesia and

Malaysia and that's increasing

the level of anxiety, the level

of desperation. There's also of

course our relationship with

Indonesia and one of the things

I'm extremely disturbed about

in relation to Tony Abbott is

his absolute refusal to

acknowledge that we only are

going to deal with this issue

as a humanitarian one in the

long-term if we work

collectively and respectively

with our closest neighbours and

trashing our relationship with

Indonesia is not going to help

anybody deal with this issue in

the shrm or in the long-term

and I think Tony Abbott's

preposal of simply turning back

boats, putting people's lives

at more risk, not he's just

going to put more people in

danger, risk more death, but it

will seriously damage our

relationship with Indonesia and

put the lives of our defence

personnel in danger as well. I

respect the views of our most

senior Defence personnel saying

there are rules of the sea,

laws of the sea that we need to

follow and thankfully our

personnel have got much more

respect for their understanding

of the rule of law and human

rights and what they need to do

to look after vulnerable people

than Tony Abbott. If this

reference group that you're a

part of is to come up with some

sort of solution, clearly

you're going to have to make

some concession. Would you at

all entertain the idea of off

shore processing? Not the idea

of a punitive approach of when people arrive you have to

punish them simply because they

were refugees. Let's make no

bones about this. The proposals

that have certainly been put on

the table both by the

Government and the Opposition

are about being tough on

refugees, sending a message to people

people that we don't want them

here and that is not the approach that any Government

who wants to take humanitarian life-saving commitment to some

of the Wirral's most vulnerable

people, that's not the way you

do it. You do it by stopping

them having to board the boats

in the first place and giving

them a safer option. That's

what we should be talking about

and there's a variety of ways

we could do that. That's what

I'll be taking to the

cross-party committee. There's

clearly anger in the Labor

ranks about the Greens'

decision to side with the

Opposition and come up with a compromise on off shore

processing. There's talk in

Labor ranks of putting Greens

preferences last. What's your

reaction to that? I think it's

astonishing push from the

faceless men and the factions

within the ALP that they are

suggesting to Labor voters

they'd prefer to see Labor

voters vote for Tony Abbott

than vote for the Greens and

it's astonishing to see the

powerbrokers of the ALP saying,

"We will risk the reintroduction of WorkChoices, the trashing of the carbon

price, the turning back of

boats," all the things that

Labor has spent so long and

hard in this Government fighting against. It's

confusing to Labor voters, they

don't know what Labor's

standing for if that's the type

of track they go down and

rather than focussing on what

it is that we can be doing to

provide good governance,

they're more interested in

tearing themselves apart

internal ly. The risk of

putting Tony Abbott not just in

The Lodge but giving him

unfettered control in the snalt

is very real if Labor is going

to continue this idea of

putting the Greens last and

preferencing Tony Abbott and

Barnaby Joyce. Heavens above, I think most Labor voters out

there would be very confused

and very concerned that Labor

is suggesting they'd prefer to see Tony Abbott controlling

both Houses of parliament than

simply getting on and

delivering good governance and

standing up for the things

apparently they're meant to

believe in . You're saying Labor doesn't stand for

anything anymore. Is

relationships between your

party and the Labor Party then

- has it reached a clear

bottom? Is there - are you

concerned that the relationship

is now dysfunctional? We're

doing everything we can to be

working with Prime Minister Gillard and I think you do need

to make a distinction between

the machinists inside the Labor

Party who are trying to flex

their muscles and undermine the

Prime Minister, whereas we're Government and undermine the

in the parliament trying to get

good outcomes day in day out

and while we don't agree with the Prime Minister on

everything, we do always come

to the table to discuss, to

negotiate and to try and get

better outcomes. That's the

whole point of minority

Government and we have

delivered good outcomes. We're

delivering on Denticare, we got

the carbon price, we obviously

disagree with their crude

approach of following Tony

Abbott down to the bottom of

the barrel on refugees but we're putting forward

alternatives that I hope the Prime Minister will seriously

consider. Sarah Hanson-Young,