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Australian Agenda -

View in ParlView

(generated from captions) Feels even more like an election

campaign. People will be able to

judge for themselves. Delivering

Sky News. unrivalled live coverage, this is

Hallowed welcome to the program.

Parliament is not sitting this week

that it is shaping up to be a big

week for politics. With the

introduction of the cut in tax and

the mining tax yesterday, both of

the major parties have embarked on

a media blitz to sell their

positions. Coming up we will talk

to the Treasurer, Wayne Swan.

Coming up, some good news, the

Australian lawyer who was detained

in Libya is expected to be released.

We will get the latest from the

Foreign Minister, Bob Carr. Susilo

Bambang Yudhoyono has arrived in

Australia for talks with the

minister and the Defence Minister.

It will likely be dominated with

asylum seeker policy. We're joined

now live. Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono

landed just a couple of hours ago,

what is he up to now behind closed

doors? He is actually just about to

arrive here in Darwin Hospital.

This is an arm, the critical care

and trauma response centre. It was

actually set up after the Bali

bombings and is a staging point for

any disasters that may occur in the

region. So what President union and

-- President Yudhoyono is going to

be shown is essentially a pop-up

hospital in the car park to my

right where there is a capacity for

an 80 bed hospital that is self-

sustaining for a couple of weeks.

This is the sort of thing that can

and has a lead Indonesia in quite a

substantial way. In the case of

earthquakes and the idea is that if

there is any further disaster,

Australia is at the ready to help.

This is an indication of the walk that the bilateral relationship has

at the moment and that was further

underlined by a gift that Australia

delivered to Indonesia upon Susilo

Bambang Yudhoyono landing at Darwin.

For Hercules planes that Australia

is not using any more will be

handed over to him. The defence

Minister, Stephen Smith, and his

Indonesian counterpart, spoke to

this close relationship. In any

bilateral relationship from time to

time there are potentially issues

relating to believe there is been a

relationship between Australia and point in time where the

Indonesia has been stronger. Those

aircraft will be very useful for us,

especially for Indonesia's military

operation. When I say that, it is

relief exercise, the earthquakes, like what Mr Smith said, a disaster

Haitian army. -- a tsunami. So this

is the ceremonial part of his visit.

There will be a dinner also

attended by Tony Abbott. The meat

of the talks begin tomorrow. The

Prime Minister and the President

will meet with asylum seekers --

about asylum seekers. We will talk

about people smuggling coming out

of Indonesia. There will also be

important talks on trade and

regional security. There will be

issues about Australia's live

cattle exports and the fact that US

troops are now based in Darwin.

That is expected to be high on the

agenda. But all of this is under

the Umbro of warm relationships

between the two countries. David

with a red carpet laid out there in

the Northern Territory. We now look

at some of the top stories. Melinda

is expected to be released from

International criminal Court gave Libya. It comes after the

an apology of sorts. Almost one

month after Melinda Taylor was

detained in Libya, a sign that her

ordeal may be over. They have now

agreed to release the girl.

According to a statement from the

International criminal Court, she

would be released between 8 PM and

9 PM on Monday Australian time.

That is just a few hours from the

capital in Tripoli. She was accused

of spying by carrying coated

documents to the son of Colonel

Gaddafi. Libyan authorities

demanded an apology from the ICC.

An expression of regret, an apology

of sorts, was enough to secure

their release. Bob Carr says that

he was relieved and his involvement

cannot be ignored after visiting

Libya personally. This is based on

the advice from the ICC and I will

breeze -- breathe easy when it is

fulfilled. It is expected that they

will travel to the capital Tripoli

before bounding -- boarding a plane

to the Hague where she will be

reunited with her family. The

government is continuing its hard

sell of the carbon tax with a new

poll suggesting that more than half

of people will feel that they are

worse off. The Prime Minister and

Tony Abbott have begun a blitz on

the country. It looks and sounds

like an election campaign. The

reason for putting a price on

carbon is because it is the right

thing to do for the nation's future.

If they want certainty, they should

support the Coalition. After months

of debate, the tax is now coming

into effect. The government is

hoping that it comes easily. Now

people can judge this for

themselves. Not based on

politicians but what they can see

in their own lives. The promise of

everyone. compensation has not convinced

compensation has not convinced

everyone. More than half of those

surveyed in the latest poll believe

surveyed in the latest poll believe that they would be worse

that they would be worse off under

the carbon tax. The pollsters say

that it is clear that the

government's message is not getting

through. We have got a majority

saying that they will be worse off

under the carbon tax. When the GST

was inched his 12 years ago, 54%

thought that they would be worse

off. The numbers are similar. The

Opposition leader is also making a

parallel with the GST. He has vowed

to scrap the carbon tax and the

competition with it but he has

vowed that businesses and their

prices will be monitored closely.

The ACCC will have the same job of

monitoring prices if the Coalition

is elected. A Darwin court has been

told that a man who is found after

a six-day manhunt is risky and

unreliable. He is suspected of

beheading another man. He will be

transit -- transported to Darwin.

Ricky Stuart -- Cameron Smith says

that the next origin match will be

the biggest of his career. It will

be about playing to your strengths

and making sure that the team

placed together. Being captain,

there is no extra pressure for me

to play well. Every time I put on

the jersey, I will do my best. The

maroons say that they will fight

fire with fire but the blues are

not intimidated. We can only do

what we do. We will handle whatever

they throw at us. That will not

worry us. We have got some big boys

in our forward pack who will handle

anything they throw at us. They

will start big to get into the game.

A quick look at the weather

forecast. Cold, windy throughout

the south. Coming up next, we will

speak with the Treasurer, Wayne

Swan and the Foreign Minister, Bob

Carr. Stay with us.

Welcome back. Soon -- soon we will

be speaking to the Treasurer, Wayne

Swan about the introduction of the

carbon tax. Melinda Taylor will be

released within a matter of hours.

We spoke to the Foreign Minister,

Bob Carr, about her upcoming

release. According to the statement

from the International criminal

Court, she will be released 8 PM or

9 PM on Monday, Australian time.

That is from a few hours drive from

the capital. This is all based on

advice from the International

criminal Court and I will breathe

easy when it is fulfilled and she

is winging her way on the promised

Italian military jet to her home in

the Hague. But so far it is very

good news, a great relief. What led

to the breakthrough with Libyan

authorities? A ticket was the

fruitful negotiations between the

International criminal Court and

the Libyan authorities. I think

that enabled them to air examine

and pick through the obvious

disagreement that they had and the misunderstandings that they had. In

fact, it was the way that I

suggested, that the ICC expressed

regret for anything it got wrong in terms of the procedures and

protocols for operating in a Libya

that is pretty tense in the wake of

the uprising last year. Few expect

Melinda Taylor will face any

further scrutiny, perhaps by the

ICC? No, I think it the ICC will be

examining its own murders of brandy

-- modus operandi and I think there

will be a better relationship

between the ICC and Libya. I would

like to extend my thanks to the

Prime Minister of the Libya who was

courteous enough to meet me when I

made my hurry to visit there. I

would also like to thank the

foreign minister as is -- Azziz who

was instrumental and our support

staff. As you mentioned, he went

there personally. There are other

Australians held against their will,

what about other cases like the

kidnapping in the Philippines? Some

would say that you have different

standards on these lower cases? Not

at all. I spoke in my first weeks

as Foreign Minister to be Foreign

Minister of the Philippines, Mr

Dell was eerie Del Rosario. The

difference is that they have no

control over his situation, he was

kidnapped by a gang of kidnappers.

If there is anything the government

of the Philippines could do, they

would do it. Here we are talking about something completely

different which is a kidnap victim.

I cannot talk to the kidnappers but

the law enforcement officers have

been doing that painstakingly.

She was satisfied with the level of

support she received from the

Australian government and she had

been bullied briefed by our

government and the Australian

Federal Police. -- Fully briefed.

What about Julian Assange? Had his

case come up in the discussions you

are having in the United States,

would you expect his case to come

up in those talks? Keltner, I am

here at ending another of United

Nations meetings and they would not

expect them to come up. Everything

is on the public record. Overnight,

we saw the Senate is intelligence

renew calls the Julian Assange to

be prosecuted espionage. The US Justice Department has also

confirms that WikiLeaks remains at

the target of an ongoing criminal

investigation. How you can be sure

of their intention to extradite Mr

Assange? The the last few years,

they have had the chance of seeking his extradition the United Kingdom.

Nothing would have stopped them

from initiating extradition to see

things as that is what the

administration wanted to do. I am

not surprised that the Justice

Department is not declaring the

case closed. If this were a

priority to the administration, you

would have seen legal action very

readily they would have been in a

position to take it. You cannot

rule out that the US may be looking

to do that in a future? I never

ruled that out. I said when I

discussed this before but we were

not in a position to know. We would

hope the US would tell us. We have

registered our interest in the case

and reminded the Americans that is

an Australian citizen. We have made

representations to Sweden, so if

you is excited, and conditions

would be humane. He would be a

corded due process. We will

continue without support. The

Australian has had more consular

support and Julian Assange. To

clarify, it registered Australia's

interest, but have you made it

clear about the interest in the

future and its traditions of the

sons. The US would not tell us and

took a close to doing it. All of

the indications I picked up

including those from the American

ambassador and Australia is that

they are a long way from having

made a decision about that. I would

be surprised if they were to pursue

it. We would make decision on that

and what attitude we would take

when we knew what they were going

to do. Again, I make the point that if America were seeking the

extradition of Julian Assange to

put on trial in America, they have

had two years in which he has been

living in the United Kingdom, which

has a robust exhibition tricky with

America. It'd be easier to the

Americans to get from the United

Kingdom than from Sweden. I am

simply not persuaded that this is

something that is actively engaging

the Americans. If it were, there

would have been action from them in

the last year. Pro Minister Bob

Carr, we appreciate your time.

Coming up after the break, more of

the media blitz our politicians

embarked on to sell their positions

on the carbon tax.

Stay with us.

Welcome back. It is time now to get

the rest of her days top stories. -

- Today's top stories. A quite

Indonesian President has arrived in

Australia the talks at the Prime

Minister it and the Defence

Minister. Gillard greeted the

president as he touched down in

Darwin. Another asylum-seeker boat

arrived this morning, and this is

the second round of talks between

the two leaders. Melinda Taylor is

expected to be released within

hours. International Criminal Court

lawyer and three of her colleagues

have been detained for more than

three weeks in Libya. She was taken

into custody on June 2 while

representing the son of former

dictator Gaddafi. Both political

parties at taking to the streets

scripting the ideas on the carbon

tax. Gillard talked to voters in

Darwin hoping to convince them of

the benefits. Abbott to at a

factory in Geelong to talk about

the negative impact of the tax on

Victoria's second-largest city. The

Darwin court has been told that the

man who is the subject of a six-day

manhunt suffered from mental issue.

Sternberg is accused of decapitated

New South Wales man last month. The

court was told that Burke was

agitated and should be labelled an

at risk prisoner. David Jones

shares have dropped after a private

firm withdrew its 1.65 withdrew its

$1.65 billion. They received a

letter from EB, credit equity,

withdrawing the unsolicited

takeover bid. Investors were

already sceptical about the ability

of the little-known UK firm. In

sport, Adelaide could be without

Taylor Walker the next few matches

after being charged by the match

review panel corrupt contact

against Richmond Steve Morris.

Goddard is also in hot water after

striking North Melbourne same rate.

-- Sam right.

The government is blitzing the

media today to spruiker the

compensation kicked in yesterday

after the introduction of the

carbon tax. The pollster they show

that despite the government's best

efforts, the bulk of Australians

will are opposed to the

controversial tax. The majority

believe it will leave them worse

off despite the compensation

measures. Abbott campaigned against

the tax in Geelong earlier today.

He says Australia is up with

opinion is spot on when it comes to

the carbon tax. I would ask people

to cast their mind back to the

jesty introduction in 2000. The GST

was not a new tax, it was a

replacement tax. The age of the

fleet was vigilant and the insured

that lots of prices came down at

the wholesale is sales tax came.

Nature Bulls the will have the same

job of policing -- the agent will

Spoke with Wayne Swan earlier today.

I asked whether he thinks

Australian voters will change their

minds dramatically before the next

election. We have known about the

compensation plans for months now,

it still today with the two thirds

of Australians opposing the carbon

tax, you expect that will change

before the next election? This is a

significant economic and Deborah

mental reform which does have a

small impact on the overall price

level at but of course... Sorry, we

have a few issues with that

interview. I will try to get that

fixed and play it to you later in

the program. In the meantime, to a

panel. Bruce hooker joins me now.

We have seen a few goverments

ministers out and about pushing the

compensation measures which go

along with the carbon tax. Do you

think that Australians are still

listening to what they have to say?

I think attitudes and hardened over

a period of time. There is little

doubt about that. Polling to date

suggests that. But, government does

have an opportunity and the Prime

Minister has take a lot on being

able to convince the public to advertising campaigns and through

the violence of argument that this

guy is not going to fall in. --

Through the force of argument. It

will be about whether people to

feel better after the compensation

payments received from this tax.

That is the big issue, when the

money floating, or people say they

were sold a bit by Tony Abbott, and

this isn't the end of the world. Or,

they may still feel aggrieved. I

think the attitude against it. And,

but how far they will soften, a not

so sure. I think it'll still be a

hard sell. We will hear the other

side of the story with Grahame

Morris on a panel shortly. I'm told

that clip with Wayne Swan is now

ready. We will give it another go.

The treasurer speaking with me

earlier. Treasurer, think if we are

time. We have known about the

compensation plans for months now,

it still today we see two thirds of

Australians opposing the carbon tax.

But you think it will change before

the next election? It is a significant economic and

environmental reform with a small

impact on the overall price level.

There has been a lot of distortion

particularly from Mr Abbott about

the impact. I think the left

experience of many Australians will

be that's the price impact that are

taken into account in terms of the

additional systems to the tripling

of the tax free from a shot an

additional family payments, they

will be evident to Australians. It

will be linked experience.

Have you turn the modelling on how

many jobs will be lost as a result

of the carbon tax? Yes we have, we

have done a lot of modelling in terms of economic growth, jobs

growth and income and it is the

case that we will continue to grow

strongly. Tony Abbott keeps saying

that he will repeal the carbon tax.

Labor is critical, suggesting that

Tony Abbott will not go through

with it. Why do you think that

repealing the carbon tax is too

hard? I think that businesses are

aware that we are putting in place

a carbon tax that will draw

investment in renewable energy.

Ripping that outlaw create

uncertainty. The reason why many

businesses support the carbon tax

is that it provides investment in

renewable energy and more efficient

energy practices. This will provide

certainty and I think there will be

many businesses out there,

including the ones in the business

today, who will oppose Tony Abbott

trying to rip it out. Australians

would also be shocked that he plans

to get rid of the changes in tax

that a very important for those on

lower incomes, not paying a dollar

in tax in $18,000! For the first

time in years we are seeing an

increase in the marginal tax rates.

Why would they necessary? We have

changed things up to $80,000.

People up to that level will

receive a cut. There has been

adjustments but that is because the

tax-free threshold has increased

from $6000-$18,200. Everybody up to

$80,000 will be better off. If you

do lose the election, Labor will

not be able to hold on to this

policy. You'd have to acknowledge the Coalition's mandate on that

issue? I will not speculate on that

but we have said in this interview

that there are a set of

arrangements put in place to

support investment into renewable

energy, a set of incentives that encourage workplace participation.

I think that if Tony Abbott would

be elected Prime Minister, he would

not be a better help. I think it is unlikely because his behaviour has

demonstrated he is not fit to hold

the high office of Prime Minister.

Clive Palmer has said that he is

planning to run in the seat of Lily,

we are expecting more on this later.

Do you have any word on whether he

runs? I hope that he does not run

away from this contest! He will be

the biggest beneficiary of the tax

cut that Tony Abbott will give, the

tax cut to the big miners. He will

abolish the mining tax and that

would be a huge benefit to Clive

Palmer and Jenna Rinehart. I hope

that he does not run away because I

want to have that contest with him

about these issues that matter very

much to be people that I represent.

If the polls to not improve, it is

likely that we will see more

pressure on Julia Gillard's

leadership? I do not accept the

premise behind that question. We

are putting forward an important

electoral -- economic reform. What

we have done is the right thing by

the country. I believe that that

will be rewarded at the next

election. At the start of this new financial year, what are you expecting? To think the uncertainty

on global markets will continue or

are you feeling more optimistic? I

was encouraged that the events in

Europe over the weekend. I thought

we did see the beginnings of an important breakthrough at the

meetings that took place in the

European Union. Clearly some more

gremlins in the system. My

apologies to him, some of the

follow-up questions did not make it

into the compiled because we had

some problems with the recording of

that interview. He got the gist of

it though. Let's move on. We'll

start with you gram, you heard the

Treasurer sounding optimistic that

Australians will come around and eventually think that the carbon

tax is a good idea once the

compensation starts flowing into

their pockets. Do you think there

is any chance that that hope will

become a reality for Labor? I think

the Labor Party is relying on hope

at the moment. At this time last

year the Prime Minister and the

Treasurer was saying look, wait until the compensation was

announced. And then it was wait

until Christmas. And then it was

wait until the Budget and now it is

wait until the implementation of

some of these good things. Then

wait until the advertising campaign

kicks in. Now we are here and

everyone is saying wait until the

tax returns next year? I think the

Labor Party has been very tolerant

with the Prime Minister and the

Treasurer. I suspect that at the

moment they know that this is a dog

of a policy and their only hope, to

me, listening to them, is that they

know behind the door is Kevin Rudd

and Bill shorten. If I were

advising Kevin Rudd I would say I

have got you out of trouble once

and I'm not going to do it again.

You can stick with Prime Minister

Gillard and see how you go. Why

should he, in this climate which is

absolutely dreadful with 500 days

to go before the election, the

Labor Party is in a no win position.

Why should Kevin Rudd put up his

hand a second time? I do not think

that he should any more. Bruce, we

know that you're close to Kevin

Rudd. To think that her time is

running out on the top job? How

long do you think that Labor and

the backbenchers would be happy to

wait around with her? The

Parliamentary party has shown great

enthusiasm to support Julia Gillard

in tough situations. They are

dotted in their support for her.

Now, I do not think I am in any

position to predict how the Labor

Party caucus will react in the

coming months. I would say that she

has made it pretty clear that she

believes that she can argue the

case for the carbon tax between now

and the end of the year. She would

expect to see some turnaround in

the polling. I think that everyone

would be desperately looking for

that. The poll numbers in Queensland were terribly depressing,

I think it was 22%. That would see

the whole of the Parliamentary

party in Queensland, including

Kevin Rudd, wiped out. Everyone

knows that there is a lot riding on

being able to turn around public

opinion on carbon. As I said to you,

I think that she thinks that she

can turn it around but attitudes

have hardened in the last weeks and

months and it would be difficult to

get a big change unless people

really do except that the

compensation package that they are

going to get more than compensates

for any loss of income as a result

of the introduction of the tax. Is

it your understanding that Kevin

Rudd would not challenge again,

that he would only come back if he

was begged by the caucus to do so?

It is my understanding that Kevin

Rudd would not challenge again for

the leadership. Apart from that I

cannot make any speculation. I do

know that in the last round, it was

a very tough experience for

everybody involved in that process.

A lot of people made their position

is very clear about what they felt

about Kevin Rudd which drove the

lot of the caucus vote on the issue.

I think he would never challenge

again for the leadership. Actually,

I have always thought that any

politician, whether it is Bill

shorten or Kevin Rudd, if you were

ever asked to be Prime Minister,

even for a couple of months and you

put up your hand and say yes please,

I would like to be Prime Minister

of this country. But it is very

hard to think of how you would go

to Kevin Rudd or Bill shorten and

say look, we know that we are in a

dreadful pickle, can you come and

save us? This sort of fatalism in

the Labor Party at the moment about

their prospects under the Prime

Minister, they are all hoping that

around the corner is a new

leadership team. What is the new

leadership team is not there? They

will not challenge but what of 20

people go to them and say look, we

need you, we have got the numbers

to knock off the Prime Minister, we

will tap on the shoulder, what if

they say don't bother, I am not

going to start? Where is the Labor

Party then? It is a very fatalistic

room at the moment and they are not

sure what to do. We have been told

all the time that this is not a big

issue and they are hoping that the

polls will turn around once

Australians get used to the carbon

tax. Due to the Tony Abbott has

overstepped his mark in his

criticism of the carbon tax? Labor

has seen ministers rolled out

pointing out that the sky has not

fallen in, the coalmining towns are

still here. There has not been a

huge wipeout of jobs in those

regions. I'd not think so. We have

had mums and dads with some money

in their pockets, they have gone

and bought their kids some shoes

but they are still not happy. Now

we will get to the stage where small business, particularly, is

being advised by the Institute of chartered accountants and everyone

to have a look at their costs and

see what you can and cannot pass on.

They have got to be very careful

that they do not do something

stupid and the ACCC does not come

down on them like a ton of bricks.

Throughout the economy, every small

business will look at their

electricity prices, fetch transport

prices and pass that on to the

consumer. I do not think that mums

and dads will be terribly impressed

when they have taken any

compensation, put it in their

pocket but they get all of these

extra bills. I cannot see that this

policy, the policy is no good, the

personnel selling it is no good and

now it is rubbing off on the party

itself as being no good. The

electorate has almost given up on

that and that is very strange at

this point of time in the election

cycle. There is some time before

the next election. I wanted to ask

you about the asylum seeker debate.

Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono will meet

with the Prime Minister and this

will be one of the issues high up

on the agenda. Do you think there

was a winner out of the debate we

saw last week? Probably not. I

think the polling suggests that the

public do want a compromise between

the government and the Opposition

and the Opposition leader is

refusing to do that. He knows that

while he keeps the ball in the ruck

and refuses to come up with any

solution and he could come up with

a compromise quite easily by accepting the Malaysians solution,

that he is on a winner. In my view

he has been cynical and has been

quite political. On the one hand

that is bad for him because it

pains him in a rather grim light

and that is why he has barely got a

popularity above Julia Gillard's

when it comes to preferred prime

minister when you would expect that

the number that the government and

the Opposition have gotten would

show him way ahead. The advantage

is that while this continues to be

an issue, it will be a problem for

the government. With the Indonesian

President in the country, we should

remember that Tony Abbott has said

that he wants to cope those boats

back to Indonesia even though

Indonesia is not a signatory to the

International rights on the refugee.

He has one position on Malaysia and

another completely different one on

Indonesia. I think the government

needs to take up the fight to Tony

Abbott on those inconsistencies in

his approach. It is not just the

Indonesians who say that will not

work, it is also the Navy who

suggest that there are concerns

about safety for our navy personnel.

Is it time for that part of the

Opposition policy for the Coalition

keep cut off and say goodbye to? No,

not at all. It is not hard to sort

out some sort of copra Myers, just

knock off Malaysia. That is not

hard. What I found interesting was

that you would expect the

government and the Opposition to

get a mess out of this, people

expected Tony Abbott to have a

fight but talkback radio was quite

savage against the Greens. I did

not expect that at all. Many people

blame to the Greens for being

intransigent and operating as a

third party and going with the

government to break the deadlock.

It was quite an unusual outcome in that debate.

There was an opportunity to the

greens to actually come up with an

outcome that would have resolved

the deadlock. This is where I think

they should be held accountable by

the public. They try to be curate

about these things but sometimes

the price of purity of impotence.

That is where the greens have to be

held accountable. There is a price

to be we have an emissions trading

scheme -- we would have had an

emissions trading scheme if they

had not been so transient. In many

ways, they are almost as bad as

Tony Abbott and it comes to the big

issue. We are out of time, Bruce

hooker and Grahame Morris, and

appreciate your insight. I do want

to point out to our viewers we have

some light pictures of the Prime

Minister it Julia Gillard and

Indonesian President at a hospital

in Darwin. There is a light

pictures there. If the two leaders

have anything to say, it will take

you back there. There is also

reports of interesting addition of

the Trade Minister singing about

the carbon tax. Social media going

crazy about with the Amazon

launching into song. More coming up

after the break and we will speak

with Professor Ross gyno.

Welcome back to PM Agenda. We have

light pictures coming to us from

Darwin with Julia Gillard with

Indonesian resident. -- President.

They're at a hospital in Darwin.

Talking about closer ties when it

comes to crisis centres and disaster Corporation. One area

where it Australia is working

closer with Indonesia. The other it

area of asylum seekers. That'll be

on the agenda for talks between the

two leaders tomorrow in Darwin. We

will have full coverage of the

Indonesian president's tour of

Darwin for you here at on Sky News

will stop moving on, we have seen

this debate over the carbon tax and

they mentioned that social media is

going crazy this afternoon with

some reports of Craig Emerson the

Trade Minister adding a new

dimension to this debate. He had

launched into song at a news

conference in Wyalla talking about

it not being wiped off the map. We

will play a bit of that for you now.

You are accusing the Opposition

Leader... The Opposition Leader is

putting forward that this is just a

horror movie. The mood of the

people of Wyalla is that (SINGS)

Craig Emerson in Canberra earlier.

Joining me now is Professor Ross

Garnaut. Craig is a good economist.

A better economist anything. He

would acknowledge that. It has been

a pretty awful bit of public

argument by politicians and this is

a really serious issue. There is a

package of policies on the table

and all of the focus is on who is

winning in the polls and what

somebody in the supermarket thinks

about someone's views rather than

on what the actual effect of the

policies are. It would be good if

we could get back to some serious

analysis of the underlying issues,

which in the end, there will

determine how Australians are

affected. You mentioned the polls,

there has been a lot of commentary

today and it shows two thirds of

Australians not convinced with

attacks. You started advising the

government and we have seen support

and we've seen support steadily

declined, why is that? Is it to do

with the government not selling it

properly or the lack of movement on

an international scale? It had

recently you thought there was more

progress on international scale

than legally accept and acknowledge

here in Australia. There is

certainly more progress on

international scale than I

anticipated when I gave my second

report to the government a year ago.

More than I anticipated three years

ago too. It is good progress. All

of the Australian debate and

questions on television and radio

about who is saying what the polls

rather than on looking at what

China is actually doing and what

the United States and Europe are

actually doing. And Korea. It would

be good if we could focus on the

real issues of climate change and

what other countries are doing

about it and what we need to do to

do are - are. When you look at what

other countries are doing, one of

the real criticisms about the

Australian carbon tax is the $23

per tonne price. Winner New Zealand

has dropped its price dramatically

to six dollars a tonne. G think the

government needs to be -- do you

think the government needs to be

more flexible to be in line with international prices? You have to

understand that different countries

go about reducing emissions in

different ways. The USA doesn't

have a nationwide carbon price.

President Obama tried to get one

but he had legislation go through

this limit and it wasn't passed by

the House of Representatives. -- Go

through the Senate. They all

thought it was the best way of

doing it. They couldn't get that

done in that way. They are going

about it and other way. The other

way is actually costing houses and

businesses much more. We should be

comparing the cost of all of those

carbon mitigation policies and not

just the countrywide carbon price.

If you do that, then a $22 puts

Australia in the middle. -- $23. We

still have the live pictures on the

screen of Gillard and beauty --

Yudhyono. Back to that optimism...

It is not Optus -- optimism. It is

a real picture of what is happening.

We had a lot from you about what is

to come when he delivered your

updates over the years you were advising the government. Do you

believe that the way the

international community is heading

now, we do have a chance of

reducing both negative impact on

the world's climate? We have a

chance of reducing them. What is

already happening in China, USA,

Europe, Japan, Korea, Indonesia

will reduce the impacts. It still

worked avoid severe impact if you

take the mainstream science as your

guide. And we do that on everything

else that matters. We have to get

emissions down a long way to avoid

it destructive outcomes. We are

making progress and it is better

than if we made none. There is a

fair way to go before we have a

satisfactory outcome. Everyone knew

this was going to be a long, hard

road. Making progress early will

show people that progress can be

made without disruption of economic

development and once that is

understood, it will become possible

to go further. Professor Ross

Garnaut we appreciate your insights

as always. That is all we have time

for. More politics coming up after

the break.