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Unemployment steady; more jobs; but working hours slump

ELEANOR HALL: The jobs market in Australia continues to defy expectations. According to official
estimates the unemployment rate stayed steady in July at 5.8 per cent, surprising economists and
financial markets.

The economy added more than 32,000 jobs though all of them were part-time.

Joining me in the studio is our economics correspondent Stephen Long.

So Stephen, take us through these numbers. They look a lot more optimistic than the Federal
Government has been predicting?

STEPHEN LONG: Indeed Eleanor. The collapse in employment and the rising tide of unemployment that
has been expected by so many for so long refuses to come. Instead what we're seeing is a continuing
fall in full-time employment and a rise in part-time employment.

So there were 16,000 full-time jobs shed in the month on the official estimate and an increase of
48,200 in the number of part-time employees. And so if you net that out you've got an increase of
just over 32,000 jobs but what you're seeing is full-time jobs being shed and part-time employment

And when you round it out again you have no increase overall seasonally adjusted in the
unemployment rate which has stayed steady at 5.8 per cent.

Now the median forecast, the midpoint by the market economists who get paid to pick this was 6 per
cent so you had half expecting it would be 6 per cent or more and so this has defied expectations.

It's basically very optimistic compared to the Treasury predictions that we had in the Budget and
if the trends continue this way we're unlikely to see the 8.5 per cent peak in unemployment that
was predicted by Treasury.

ELEANOR HALL: So how do you interpret this? I mean should people who are in jobs now be just
feeling a lot more confident or is there more to these numbers?

STEPHEN LONG: The significant thing that you're seeing and what really tells the story is not the
headline unemployment rate. It's what's happening with working hours.

And quite usefully the Australian Bureau of Statistics has published material on working hours with
the labour force figures out today and what they show is that there were 1.5 million work hours
shed - 1.5 million fewer work hours in July this year compared to June.

And in the past year in the year to July there were more than 35 million fewer work hours in the

So what you're seeing is a steady erosion of work hours far more pronounced than the decline in

So that confirms what many had suspected, that one of two things is happening, probably both:
Employers are hording labour, they're keeping people on but cutting their work hours; and there's
been a sectoral shift. So you're getting a decline in industries where you have people
predominately employed full-time and maybe an increase in industries where people are predominately
employed part-time.

And you see that with who's getting hit in terms of men and women. So in this month, male
unemployment went up by 0.1 of a per cent. Female unemployment fell by 0.1 of a per cent.

Now that dovetails with what we know about the industry breakdown with manufacturing, construction,
the male dominated industries shedding jobs and shedding full-time jobs and female dominated
industries rising with the fiscal stimulus boosting service sector jobs.

ELEANOR HALL: This is clearly quite complex. How will it fit into the optimism that we've been
seeing from the Reserve Bank about the economy and what's it likely to mean for interest rates?

STEPHEN LONG: I think the only way to interpret it is that the Reserve Bank will see this as
positive news and it lends weight to those who think that the next move in interest rates will be
up although we can't say with any certainty when that will be.

And the market reaction confirms that Eleanor because you saw the Australian dollar jump after this
came out because basically the Reserve Bank tends to look at what's happening with the headline
unemployment rate and so do the financial markets and this will confirm their sort of fairly rosy

And let's put it in context. Compared to what's happening overseas it is good news. It's preferable
to have it playing out as an underemployment crisis with diminishing work hours than having it
playing out as an unemployment crisis.

So you've got unemployment close to 10 per cent in America and parts of Europe and more in some
parts of Europe and you've only got it at less than 6 per cent here. If this continues in this vein
then it's a fairly reasonable outcome.

ELEANOR HALL: Stephen Long our economics correspondent. Thank you. And we will have reaction from
the Government to these numbers later in the program.

Govt wants new national security deal with media

ELEANOR HALL: The Attorney-General Robert McClelland says he was prepared to seek an injunction to
stop details of the counter-terrorism raids in Melbourne being published.

Two investigations are now underway in the leaking of information to The Australian newspaper and
the Attorney-General says that a new agreement does need to be put in place to deal with the
media's reporting of national security information.

In Canberra, Naomi Woodley reports.

NAOMI WOODLEY: Robert McClelland has revealed that police weren't the only officials staying up
through the night on Monday evening as a series of counter-terrorism raids were conducted across
Melbourne and Victoria.

ROBERT MCCLELLAND: That was a nightmare night for me.

NAOMI WOODLEY: He's told Radio National he was waiting to hear how the Australian newspaper was
going to respond to the request not to publish details of the raids before they'd been completed.

ROBERT MCCLELLAND: So in the meantime I was looking at the possibility of getting a legal team
together for an urgent injunction and so forth which wouldn't have been in anyone's interest.

NAOMI WOODLEY: Mr McClelland says in the end he relied on the good will of the newspaper's
management and the newspaper too says it honoured its agreement with the Federal Police.

But the Victorian Police Commissioner Simon Overland is still fuming about the leak.

SIMON OVERLAND: My main concern is about finding the people who released the information because
that is a criminal offence. It's very serious. It relates to national security matters and
potentially it put my staff at significant risk and potentially compromised the investigation.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The Federal Police and Victoria's Office of Police Integrity have both launched
investigations into the source of the leak. Robert McClelland says the incident shows there needs
to be a better system of dealing with cases where the media has information that could impact on
national security.

ROBERT MCCLELLAND: The agreement wasn't reduced to writing so people didn't know precisely their
obligations, has to be seen as unsatisfactory and we need a better mechanism there. There is no
doubt about that.

NAOMI WOODLEY: But he's not advocating a return to the past.

ROBERT MCCLELLAND: I would be reluctant to go to something that the British have for instance
D-notices and we certainly had that capability I understand until the Whitlam government abolished
the concept. I wouldn't like to go there but I think we need to do it better. I think we need to
sit down and develop a protocol because it was unsatisfactory all round.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The shadow attorney-general says the Opposition would be willing to consider such a
proposal but he's sceptical about the Government's motives.

GEORGE BRANDIS: For Mr McClelland now to come out and try and cover up this mistake and say well
what we need is a protocol is really an attempt to deflect attention from this failure that
occurred on his watch.

NAOMI WOODLEY: Chris Warren from the Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance is pleased to D-notices
are not being contemplated by either side of politics. He's willing to discuss a new agreement but
isn't sure how it would work.

CHRIS WARREN: I think journalists have a pretty clear understanding that there are two at times
competing issues here. The first is the responsibilities that everybody has to national security
and journalists are no different to anybody else in that. The second is the responsibility of
journalists to keep our communities informed, to report what's going on.

And I think any protocol, any discussions, any agreement has to ensure that those two issues are
appropriately balanced.

NAOMI WOODLEY: He's also defended the decision by Sydney's Daily Telegraph newspaper to send a
photographer and journalist to the Holsworthy Army Barracks in Sydney, allegedly the target of
those arrested during the Melbourne raids.

CHRIS WARREN: It's actually part of our responsibility. Here you have a big story, a political
debate about the degree of security in defence installations. Journalists would be not doing their
job if they didn't test that.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The newspaper says its journalist showed identification and was allowed to freely
enter base by the private security guard manning the gate.

The Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard has acknowledged that there has been a shift away from
soldiers guarding their own barracks.

JULIA GILLARD: Clearly given the events of this week and what we now know, or you know obviously
there are allegations and the courts are going to work through all of it, but what appears to have
been threats to our military bases I think it is appropriate for that to be reviewed.

The Prime Minister has asked the Chief of the Defence Force to do that and there's no better

NAOMI WOODLEY: But the Opposition's George Brandis says counter-terrorism has been de-prioritised
by the Federal Government and it's been caught out.

GEORGE BRANDIS: What we want to see is we want to see the results of the inquiries that are
underway so that we can get to the bottom of the facts. But what we are not impressed by is Mr
McClelland's fairly transparent attempt at blame shifting.

NAOMI WOODLEY: That's the shadow attorney-general George Brandis ending that report from Naomi

News Corp to charge for online content

ELEANOR HALL: Rupert Murdoch this morning sounded a grim warning for traditional newspaper
operators when he announced a fourth quarter loss of more than $US200 million earlier today.

But at the same time he issued a challenge to Google and other internet operators saying that the
days of free news content on the internet are numbered and that within the year he'll be charging
anyone who wants access to News Corporation stories.

And the chairman and chief executive of News Corporation was adamant that his company would survive
the current industry turmoil and win the battle on how to make a profit from the internet.

Here's our business editor Peter Ryan.

PETER RYAN: News Corporation's fourth quarter loss of $US203 million was in line with expectations,
given the impact of the global financial crisis and deep falls in revenue across the business with
the exception of cable television.

But the numbers are staggering when viewed over the full year - a net loss of $US3.4 billion down
30 per cent on the previous year, prompting this gloomy assessment from News Corporations chairman
and chief executive Rupert Murdoch.

RUPERT MURDOCH: The last year has been one of the toughest we've faced in our history. And results
they've just outlined for fiscal 2009 clearly reflect the sour economic environment that affected
our businesses throughout the year.

PETER RYAN: News Corporation has been battening down the hatches still reeling from huge declines
in classified advertising revenue while fine tuning a blueprint for future media models that make
money like the old.

Rupert Murdoch is optimistic but realistic about the challenging digital frontier he's planning to

RUPERT MURDOCH: The tumultuous and unprecedented change affecting the entire media sector and
particularly newspapers and free to air broadcasters cannot be ignored. I think that the worst may
be behind us but there are no clear signs yet of a fast economic recovery.

PETER RYAN: Mr Murdoch says that changes are rapidly evolving and that traditional options of cost
cutting are not going to work.

Instead he's laid down a challenge to digital competitors and the online giants Google and Yahoo
who pluck news content from the internet that the days of a free ride are almost over.

RUPERT MURDOCH: The digital revolution has opened many new and inexpensive methods of distribution
but it has not made content free. Accordingly we intend to charge for all our news websites. The
Wall Street Journal's is the world's most successful paid news site. We'll be using our
profitable experience there and resulting in unique skills throughout News Corporation.

Quality journalism is not cheap and an industry that gives away its content is simply cannibalising
its ability to produce good reporting.

PETER RYAN: Rupert Murdoch took a multi-billion dollar gamble when he bought The Wall Street
Journal but the online subscription model is now a world beater as the only publication to expand
in both print and online during the recession.

It's a model that's being finetuned here in Australia at the News Corporations subsidiary News
Limited which publishes major mastheads such as The Australian, Daily Telegraph, Herald Sun and the
popular website.

GREG BAXTER: We've been working towards this for some time. Integration you know is the buzz word
in journalism I guess for the last couple of years. We've tried to pick up the pace on it.

PETER RYAN: Greg Baxter is News Limited's director of corporate affairs.

GREG BAXTER: Eventually as you alluded to we are looking to produce content and ultimately we'll be
able to generate some additional revenue in addition to the revenue that we can get from

PETER RYAN: So you're just waiting for the order to press the subscription button?

GREG BAXTER: No we're not waiting for any orders. I mean we're just pressing ahead. I mean it's
part of the business plan for most of the editorial operations in News Corp around the world are
heading down this path.

PETER RYAN: But Harold Mitchell chairman of the media buying company Mitchell Communications says
Rupert Murdoch could be in for the fight of his life.

HAROLD MITCHELL: Rupert Murdoch has quite rightly accepted the challenge of now getting people to
pay for content. Very difficult because for more than a decade of course it's been given away free.

PETER RYAN: Harold Mitchell says News Corporation is already preparing a legal battle to prevent
Google and Yahoo from taking its news material and using it free of charge.

HAROLD MITCHELL: The fight is on two fronts. One is to stop people like Google and organisations
like Google simply taking the information and making it available and using it inside their

And the second thing is to get the product in such a way that subscribers are prepared to pay. But
it's a fight that has to be won.

PETER RYAN: But do you think that culturally the world has changed so much that people are used to
pretty much cherry picking their own news?

HAROLD MITCHELL: The world has changed completely. There's 400,000 different ways that people can
now get information. That's however many sites we've got available that we can advertise on and
therefore the consumer can go and get. And of course it can be done at a click of a button. And
we've got a generation of people who've simply grown up with all of this.

But the challenge is there but in the end content will win.

ELEANOR HALL: That's the media buyer Harold Mitchell ending that report from business editor Peter

And we did ask Google executives here in Australia and in the United States to respond to Mr
Murdoch's comments but the company declined our invitation.

The price of good news

ELEANOR HALL: Joining us now though is Margaret Simons. She is a journalist and author whose latest
book The Content Makers looks at the future of Australian media and the challenge facing online
media content providers.

She writes about new media issues on the Crikey website and is a lecturer at Swinburne University
of Technology and she's on the line in Melbourne.

Dr Simons, welcome to the program.


ELEANOR HALL: Rupert Murdoch is clearly making a direct challenge to online news providers like
Google and Yahoo. How do you think they will respond?

MARGARET SIMONS: Well I wouldn't rule out that they might pay something for content. They have
recen... Google in particular has recently come to a settlement with authors in relation to Google
Books so it's not out the question that they would pay but whether or not they would pay anything
that reflects the value of the content or the cost of producing it is another matter entirely.

ELEANOR HALL: They do have the funds to pay though don't they?

MARGARET SIMONS: Oh yes certainly. I mean Google is one of the most successful businesses in the

ELEANOR HALL: And so why wouldn't they pay?

MARGARET SIMONS: Well presumably because they think that they can get content of equivalent quality
elsewhere for free and they may be right about that.

ELEANOR HALL: I guess the question is with Rupert Murdoch leading this challenge, would Google and
Yahoo be concerned that other news content providers could easily follow suit?

MARGARET SIMONS: Well I think the key words there are leadership and risk.

Rupert Murdoch is the only media proprietor in the world who could possibly try something like this
and that's because of his dominance of the news industry - something which of course has been a
very mixed blessing. But it does mean that if anybody is going to lead in this direction it has to
be him really.

If he succeeds then we'll look back on this as probably his last great act of industry leadership
because it will establish a sustainable model for high quality journalism.

But the likelihood, you know it is an incredibly risky endeavour because although News Corp is
dominant there are many, many other sources of news and it's quite likely that not all of the
content of News Corp will actually be of high enough quality that people will be prepared to pay
because they'll be able to get equivalent stuff elsewhere. So it really does place the emphasis on
the quality of the content.

I think Murdoch is probably partly right. I think high quality, specialised content, people will be
prepared to pay but I also think the sort of commoditised, bite sized parts of international and
national news will easily be provided by others on a free to air model supported by advertising.

ELEANOR HALL: So what do you think? Do you think Rupert Murdoch will win this fight?

MARGARET SIMONS: I wouldn't be prepared to predict but I suspect that he will be moving out of the
business of mass media and increasingly into highly specialised, high quality content if he wants
this to succeed.

So people may pay for a scoop that they can't read anywhere else. They're not going to pay just for
hearing the latest stuff that they can get on any other news service, including on the wires.

ELEANOR HALL: It was inevitable that something like this would happen wasn't it? I mean the model
that's there at the moment is not sustainable is it?

MARGARET SIMONS: Well not if we want the sort of journalism that we've had over most of the last
hundred years, that's right.

New business models are going to have to emerge or the old ones are going to have to adapt and I've
always thought that paying for content was certainly one of the models that will succeed in the

But I don't think people will pay for just any content. They're going to be, it's going to have to
be something pretty special and something they can't get elsewhere and that really lays down the
challenge to journalists to actually live up to their own rhetoric if you like.

ELEANOR HALL: Margaret Simons, thanks very much for joining us.

MARGARET SIMONS: Thank you. Bye.

ELEANOR HALL: That's Margaret Simons. Her latest book - she's a journalist - her latest book is The
Content Makers.

Tax man sets sights on travel rorters

No transcript available.

Search for missing ferry passengers continues

No transcript available.

Forum focuses on Fiji and climate change

ELEANOR HALL: Australia's Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Pacific Island leaders held a third day of
negotiations at the annual Pacific Island Forum in Cairns today.

The Cairns summit has been dominated by discussion of the impact of global warming and the future
of suspended forum member Fiji.

The final statement from the forum is due out this afternoon and is likely to again urge Fiji to
return to democratic government.

Our reporter Danny Morgan is in Cairns and joins us now.

So Danny, what's been happening there this morning?

DANNY MORGAN: Well most discussions are being held behind closed doors but earlier this morning we
had the official photo where leaders don the official forum shirt and Kevin Rudd departed from the
usual colourful prints when choosing that shirt, he selected a rather austere pale blue shirt
associated with Australian farmers and stockman. And the leaders were also presented with leather
boots from the company that was founded by the famous stockman, RM Williams.

ELEANOR HALL: So with the fashion parade was over, did we get any idea what was likely to be in the

DANNY MORGAN: Well, climate change has been a big issue this week and the Pacific Islands are under
threat from rising sea levels so leaders are expected to highlight the need for a strong, global
agreement at the world's climate change talks in Copenhagen later this year and Kevin Rudd has
already said he will raise the Pacific's concerns at that meetings.

Fiji's future is also another major topic. The Premier of Niue yesterday surprised by saying that
Fijian's should rise and challenge the country's military regime and here's what the New Zealand
Prime Minster, John Key had to say on that matter.

JOHN KEY: New Zealand doesn't support that view. Look, we don't recognise Frank Bainimarama's
dictatorship that's operating there at the moment. We don't think that's the right way to go. But
our view would be the right forward is for Bainimarama to actually get around and have proper
negotiations with the former leaders there, particularly Qarase and Chaudhry and I think look the
way forward's got to be peaceful. A good coup doesn't cancel out a bad coup and I don't think it
will take Fiji anywhere other than a bad place.

(Sounds of whistling and clapping)

ELEANOR HALL: That's the New Zealand Prime Minster, John Key. So Danny, have any of the other forum
leaders responded to those comments from the New Zealand Prime Minster?

DANNY MORGAN: Well, Kevin Rudd's comments on this matter are largest in line with the New Zealand
Prime Minster's. There have been some indications that some countries or Pacific Island nations
here favour allowing Fiji back into the forum but Australia and New Zealand are pretty firm on
this, they say Fiji must return to democracy quickly if they want to be welcomed back.

ELEANOR HALL: And just finally there, was there any further discussion about climate change with
the Prime Minister making any more statements about that?

DANNY MORGAN: Well, they're locked behind closed doors at the moment and we're expected to hear,
get a statement later today on climate change and other matters like Fiji so I guess we'll have to
wait and see what's in that final agreement.

ELEANOR HALL: Danny Morgan in Cairns, thank you. That's Danny Morgan at the Pacific Islands Forum
in Cairns.

Feathers fly over fowl food

ELEANOR HALL: Thousands of passengers who travelled on Virgin Blue flights earlier this year may
have been exposed to the bacteria listeria in the airline's food.

The airline and Queensland Health are both warning that it can take up to 70 days for someone
infected with listeria to develop symptoms of the infection, which include cramps and nausea.

Pregnant women in particular are at risk, and two women who are now known to have flown on affected
Virgin Blue flights went into premature labour after eating the airline's chicken sandwiches.

Barbara Miller reports:

BARBARA MILLAR: Under the heading "tummy tempters" Virgin Blue's on-flight menu offers chicken
wraps for $7.00.

But there's a potential problem for those who were tempted in at the least the months of May and

The airline, in co-operation with Queensland Health, is warning that the wraps were probably
contaminated with the bacteria listeria.

Heather Jeffery is a Virgin Blue spokeswoman.

HEATHER JEFFERY: Earlier this year, we had a very small number of people contact us to say they had
the tummy bug fever etc and when we noticed that, we conducted an immediate investigation back
through the supply chain.

BARBARA MILLAR: Shortly afterwards alarm bells began ringing at Queensland Health too.

Dr Aaron Groves the Department's acting Deputy Director-General spoke to ABC local radio in

AARON GROVES: What's happened was that we discovered late in July that we were having a little bit
more listeria in the country than we would normally get. We've had about as many cases in the first
six months as we would normally get in a year. And we started to go and talk to the people who had
listeria and see if there were some common trends amongst the people that had listeria.

What we then discovered late in July was that there was a link with Virgin Blue and Virgin Blue
worked very very closely with us to try and track down the reasons for that.

BARBARA MILLAR: Listeria infection is relatively rare, and may go unnoticed in many people.
Symptoms include fever, headaches, cramps, aches and pains, nausea and diarrhoea, and they can take
up to 70 days to develop. People with underlying health issues, and in particular pregnant women
are at risk.

And Queensland Health has told The World Today that two women who are now known to have flown on
affected Virgin Blue flights went into premature labour after subsequently falling ill. Both women
delivered healthy babies.

Virgin Blue says the wraps were served on thousands of flights from Brisbane and Coolangatta, along
the east coast of Australia and to New Zealand and Bali.

Wayne Loughnan is a supervisor in the coal mining industry who says he became ill at the end of
June after eating a chicken wrap on a Virgin Blue flight from Rockhampton to Brisbane.

WAYNE LOUGHNAN: Being a night flight, my wife and son picked me up from the airport. They drive
down from Noosa so I thought it saves us stopping somewhere to have something to eat, I'll have
something to eat on the plane so I ordered a chicken wrap and a bottle of water and...

BARBARA MILLAR: How much did that cost do you remember?

WAYNE LOUGHNAN: Ah, I think it was a $5 deal or a $7 deal or something like that.

BARBARA MILLAR: Did the chicken wrap taste good?

WAYNE LOUGHNAN: Hindsight tells me that it was actually, oh it was tasting good but it was actually
extra moist.

BARBARA MILLAR: Wayne Loughnan says the next day he became very ill.

WAYNE LOUGHNAN: I knew exactly that I had food poisoning.

BARBARA MILLAR: Why is that?

WAYNE LOUGHNAN: It just felt like food poisoning. I've had it once before a lot of years ago and
just with the stomach cramps, etc, it just felt like food poisoning. I'm no doctor but I self
diagnose myself reasonable well.

BARBARA MILLAR: And what made you think it was the chicken wrap?

WAYNE LOUGHNAN: Mainly because other than my cereal for my breakfast the next morning was all I
really had to eat because I finished work that day and I only really had cereal the previous
morning and then some dry food during the day. Some snacks.

BARBARA MILLAR: Because of the 70 day potential incubation period Virgin Blue and Queensland Health
are concerned that people who travelled in May and June may still become ill.

It is possible though that passengers who travelled on flights earlier this year were also

Various health authorities are now trying to pinpoint initial source of the contamination.

ELEANOR HALL: Barbara Miller reporting.

Melbourne Club compares itself to Men's Shed

ELEANOR HALL: To Melbourne now and the exclusive Melbourne Club has taken a new approach as it
defends its male only membership.

The Victorian Government is reviewing the Equal Opportunity Act and any changes to the act could
make it more difficult for the Melbourne Club to maintain its single-sex membership.

So the Melbourne Club is now comparing itself to anti-depression initiatives aimed at men. But the
Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard has poured scorn on that claim.

In Melbourne, Emily Bourke reports.

EMILY BOURKE: Community, business and religious organisations as well as human rights and gay lobby
groups have put forward their ideas on how the Victorian Equal Opportunity Act could be improved.

Currently private clubs have an automatic exemption from anti-discrimination laws but that could be
about to change.

The Melbourne Club is one such club. It's one of the city's oldest gentlemen's clubs and regarded
as the headquarters of the Melbourne establishment. But its strict male only membership policy has
been a subject of debate and criticism.

In a written submission to the Victorian Government's review the Melbourne Club's president Bill
Shelton has defended the policy, comparing the club to the men's sheds anti-depression initiative.

EXTRACT FROM WRITTEN SUBMISSION: The mere gathering of men and women in groups separate from each
other does no harm and can do a lot of good. The increasingly popular and successful Men's Shed
programs for example provide many social and emotional benefits to their participants.

The club remains as it has always been - a haven for relaxed social discourse and a means of
getting away if but briefly from day-to-day responsibilities. It is not a place where business is

EMILY BOURKE: But on local radio in Melbourne this morning the Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard
wasn't convinced.

JULIA GILLARD: Not at all. I know a bit about the Men's Shed movement mainly because my partner Tim
is actually a patron of it and spends a bit of his time associated with Men's Sheds and they are
about bringing men and boys together to talk about depression, to be there doing things, carpentry
and metal work, transferring skills but also socialising and having that sense of mutual support
that's very important.

I think the Melbourne Club is a relic of earlier times.

EMILY BOURKE: Dr Helen Szoke is the CEO of the Victorian Human Rights and Equal Opportunity
Commission. She says the Melbourne Club must prove that its policy promotes equality.

HELEN SZOKE: The position of women now as compared to when a lot of these private clubs were formed
is very different in our community. And if there is a very strong case that as the Melbourne Club
is trying to suggest, that these men who are members of those clubs need to have a restricted
membership then let them put that on the table.

Let them go to the tribunal just like women only gyms have to do just like women specific services
have to do, just like particular ethnic clubs have to do to indicate how that might promote

EMILY BOURKE: But the head of Men's Sheds Peter Sergeant says there are similarities between the
Melbourne Club and his organisation.

PETER SERGEANT: Off the top of my head I'd say yes it can be compared to Men's Sheds in that it is
a men's domain. Now I don't care how much money you've got, who you are, if you're a man you need
to be mixing with other men. You need to have a vehicle where you can communicate with other men
and feel comfortable with other men and the Melbourne Club provides that.

So to be able to go to a club where they know people and they can talk through their problems and
so on is absolutely no different to a Men's Shed.

The difference is of course that it's exclusive as against the Men's Sheds. We operate, the Men's
Sheds we help support are not exclusive. They take all comers.

EMILY BOURKE: And he's gone so far as to offer his advice and services to the Melbourne Club.

PETER SERGEANT: I'd love to have a phone call from them because I think that they could be playing
a very good role with perhaps a little bit more focus on some of these issues.

I mean I can remember the times that I've been in that club. I don't remember discussing men's
health and mental illness and all those kinds of things and I can, I'd almost bet my life on the
fact that the Melbourne Club has men in there that are really struggling with life right now.

ELEANOR HALL: That's the head of the Men's Sheds organisation Peter Sergeant, ending that report by
Emily Bourke in Melbourne.

Jobless rate sparks new economic debate

ELEANOR HALL: Returning to our lead story.

The better than expected employment numbers have sparked a war of words over the worth of the
Federal Government's stimulus measures.

The Deputy Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, says the spending packages have helped the jobs market.

But the Opposition is calling on the Government should review it's stimulus spending.

Let's hear first from the Deputy Prime Minister, Julia Gillard.

JULIA GILLARD: The Government acted quickly to support jobs through economic stimulus and the
economic evidence is in, particularly in the form of the retail sales figures and the residential
construction figures that economic stimulus is working to support jobs today.

The Government through its economic stimulus wants to support jobs today during the difficult days
of the global recession whilst building the infrastructure the nation will need for tomorrow. This
continues to be a difficult period for the global economy and for the Australian economy. World
output is falling, our terms of trade our substantially down and business investment remains
sluggish. In that environment, the government will continue through our economic stimulus package
and its delivery in schools, in the form of road and rail and other infrastructure through our
national broadband network to support jobs today during the global recession.

ANDREW SOUTHCOTT: They could say that but on the Government's own figures, the maximum impact of
the stimulus payments will not be felt until the second half of next year. And what this does so
which the Treasury forecast which was based on May but it was based on what was happening in the
first three months of this year was that with no stimulus unemployment would rise to 10 per cent
and with full stimulus, it would rise to eight and a half per cent.

Now no one now thinks that that is the case and it does, given that we are going to have to pay
back the $77-billion that they are spending on stimulating the economy, it's really important that
they reassess whether all of this is necessary.

ELEANOR HALL: The Opposition spokesman Andrew Southcott and before him Deputy Prime Minister, Julia

Smaller miners bullish on iron ore prices.

No transcript available.

When dinosaurs flew the Earth

ELEANOR HALL: Brazilian palaeontologists working in China have discovered a rare fossil of one of
the earliest known flying vertebrates.

The researchers used a new technique involving ultra-violet rays to examine soft tissue on the

They found the ancient flying reptile had hair, claws and wings unlike anything seen on today's
living animals, as Dina Rosendorff reports.

DINA ROSENDORFF: They weren't huge like dinosaurs but the 30-centimetre-long winged pterosaurs
ruled the skies above China more than 130 million years ago.

Now a team of Brazilian palaeontologists have found a well preserved fossil of the ancient winged

It's revealed a never before seen complex pattern of fibres giving these creatures sophisticated
flying skills.

Alexander Kellner from Brazil's National Museum in Rio De Janeiro is one of the palaeontologists
who made the discovery.

He says researchers were able to uncover this new information because the fossil was so well

ALEXANDER KELLNER (translated): There are millions of fossils in China, millions. I'm not
exaggerating. And there is a single sample which has this level of conservation. Soft preserved
tissues have been found previously but very compressed and restricted preserved, which has allowed
us to identify this structure.

DINA ROSENDORFF: The palaeontologists used new technology that involved shining ultra-violet rays
on the soft tissue of the pterosaur's wings.

They found these creatures had several layers of fibres to control their wings rather than one, as
was previously thought, and were more like birds than gliders.

Palaeontologist Robert Jones from The Australian Museum explains.

ROBERT JONES: It's really remarkable presentation of the fossil and they were able to see the small
fibres in the wings of the pterosaur, the flying reptile, and they then realised that these fibres
must give the wing sort of more structure to it, enabled the pterosaur to have better control.

So it probably could fly better than what they thought they could fly because they thought they had
sort of, pretty floppy sort of wings, probably a bit like you'd see in bats. So this is a wing that
gave it better flight capability.

DINA ROSENDORFF: The researchers also found hair-like fibres rather than feathers which covered the
pterosaur's body and helped the creature to control its body temperature.

Palaeontologist Alexander Kellner explains.

ALEXANDER KELLNER (translated): They are different from other furs we find in mammals and they
provide us with another hint that these animals were able to control their body temperature. They
were hot-blooded animals. This is also of great importance to understanding how the pterosaurs

DINA ROSENDORFF: The Australian Museum's Robert Jones says the finding is an important scientific
discovery that will help to shed light on other ancient flying reptiles.

ROBERT JONES: So that preservation that allowed them to see these things, that's quite likely that
some of the other pterosaurs or some of the other flying reptiles had these, or most of the other
flying reptiles had these things. It's just they didn't get preserved as fossils.

DINA ROSENDORFF: Researchers say they'll continue to study the fossil to uncover even more
information about the ancient pterosaur.

ELEANOR HALL: Dina Rosendorff reporting.