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Government, Opposition trade serious allegations

Government, Opposition trade serious allegations

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:10:00

Reporter: Lyndal Curtis

PETER CAVE: The Federal Government has levelled serious accusations of threatening and bullying
behaviour at the Opposition leader Malcolm Turnbull.

The Treasurer alleges Mr Turnbull bullied a senior member of the Prime Minister's staff at the now
notorious Midwinter Press Gallery Ball.

At the centre of the confrontation was Mr Turnbull's claim that Mr Rudd hasn't told the truth about
his relationship with a car dealer .

Mr Rudd has previously denied he and his office made representations to a government fund about the
car dealer who provides Mr Rudd with an free utility vehicle to use in his electorate.

Chief political correspondent Lyndal Curtis reports.

LYNDAL CURTIS: The press gallery's Midwinter Ball may have finished in the early hours of yesterday
morning, but the hangovers are lasting a little longer than usual.

Yesterday a staff member of Opposition frontbencher Sophie Mirabella resigned after allegations he
approached several women at the ball and tried to or asked to touch their breasts.

Today the Treasurer has made serious allegations about Malcolm Turnbull's behaviour.

WAYNE SWAN: Now we all know there is good Malcolm and bad Malcolm but I think bad Malcolm turned up
at the Midwinter Ball the other night.

Mr Turnbull threatened a staff member of the Prime Minister. That staff member will issue a full
statement about that and I am using that to indicate the nature of the smear campaign being put in
place by Mr Turnbull against the Prime Minister and his office.

REPORTER: Did the staffer say that Mr Turnbull was aggressive? What was Mr Turnbull's nature?

WAYNE SWAN: The staffer felt threatened by the statements made by the leader of the Opposition.

LYNDAL CURTIS: The staff member is Mr Rudd's economic adviser Andrew Charlton and the issue is the
allegations Mr Rudd or his office made representations on behalf of John Grant, the car dealer who
provides Mr Rudd's electorate ute, to Ozcar, the fund set up to help car dealers after finance
companies pulled out of the Australian market.

Mr Charlton has issued his transcript of the conversation he says took place when he was seated at
the table next to Mr Turnbull's and in a seat close to the Opposition leader.

He says Mr Turnbull initiated the conversation during the main course and offered advice, telling
him integrity is the most important thing in the career of a young man.

Mr Charlton says Mr Turnbull told him he was encouraging him, no matter what the circumstances, no
matter what the pressure, not to lie.

Mr Charlton responded that he didn't feel any pressure to lie.

According to Mr Charlton's note, Mr Turnbull told him the issue of Ozcar would be very damaging for
Mr Charlton and he should not lie to protect his boss.

Mr Charlton says he responded that he had not lied and he says Mr Turnbull said they both knew
there was documentary evidence that Mr Charlton had lied.

Mr Charlton says he denied that and that Mr Turnbull responded, "Andrew, you know there is
documentary evidence. This could be very damaging for you."

Mr Charlton says he told Malcolm Turnbull he didn't have any contact with Mr Grant. He says Mr
Turnbull then advised him to consider his actions very carefully.

Mr Charlton notes that at the end of the conversation he walked outside the building, saw a
colleague and relayed the conversation to her.

The Prime Minister told Parliament two weeks ago that neither he nor his office had ever spoken to
Mr Grant about Ozcar or made representations on his behalf.

Earlier today there was a story in the News Limited papers that there is a correspondence trail
between the office of the Prime Minister and officials from Ozcar. The Opposition leader demanded
on Sydney radio 2GB that Mr Rudd release all the information he has.

MALCOLM TURNBULL: If he is not telling the truth, then he really has to consider whether he can
remain Prime Minister. If he has misled Parliament deliberately, twice, then that is a, as you know
Alan from your years of working in Canberra, that is a very, very serious offence.

Now there is a Senate enquiry today. The officials are going to be there. They're going to have
Senates called for the documents. The Prime Minister has to produce all of the correspondence,
every email, every letter, every file note, everything; because his integrity, the probity, the
integrity, the honesty, the credibility of this Government is being called into question.

LYNDAL CURTIS: Now the Treasurer has called on Mr Turnbull to put up or say sorry.

WAYNE SWAN: Mr Turnbull must produce that evidence today or apologise for bullying a staff member
of the Prime Minister and apologise for trying to smear the Prime Minister.

You know what we are seeing here, once again, is an Opposition with no plans for the future, no
positive plans to support jobs, just reaching into the mud bucket and throwing mud. It's simply not
good enough.

REPORTER: You have been through all Treasury communications on this issue and there is nothing
there invoking the relationship between the Prime Minister and Mr Grant?

WAYNE SWAN: We can find no record of any relationship between the Prime Minister or his office and
Mr Grant.

LYNDAL CURTIS: Mr Turnbull hasn't responded to the Government allegations.

A Senate Committee is due to look at the matter of Ozcar this afternoon.

PETER CAVE: Our chief political correspondent Lyndal Curtis reporting.

Turnbull takes aim at big business

Turnbull takes aim at big business

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:16:00

Reporter: Alexandra Kirk

PETER CAVE: Big business has rebuffed Malcolm Turnbull's criticism that they're "snuggling up" to
Labor and his demand they publicly back the Coalition's strategy of amending then passing Kevin
Rudd's emissions trading scheme.

Mr Turnbull says they were intimidated by the Government.

The Business Council of Australia has dismissed the suggestions.

BCA chief executive Katie Lahey has told "The World Today" big business isn't in a position to back
the Coalition's stance because it doesn't know what its position on the carbon trading scheme is.

She told Alexandra Kirk her organisation is trying to work with both sides of politics.

KATE LAHEY: Well we think the emissions trading scheme is the way to go to reduce greenhouse gas
emissions and that's the first point the Business Council would want to make. We do support a
reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. We think the ETS is one of the ways to achieve that.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: As is or amended in some way?

KATE LAHEY: We were very anxious to get the electricity and the coal sectors covered off properly
and some of the heavy industry sectors are certainly going to lose profitability and lose jobs
unless we see some further amendments so what we have called for is a bipartisan approach.

We would love to see the Government and Opposition working together to get a scheme that keeps
Australian businesses in the game, keeps them competitive, maintains jobs but still takes that big
step forward to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Malcolm Turnbull says if you want to extract more from the emissions trading
scheme, as you clearly do, then offer him more support publicly rather than snuggling up to Labor.
Is that a fair enough criticism?

KATE LAHEY: Well he certainly used that term, snuggling up to Labor, in his fairly frank discussion
with the BCA members. But having said that, we don't know what the Opposition's position is.

So we haven't seen their policy statement. We haven't seen the sorts of amendments that they are
prepared to make. And that's why, from our point of view we would love to see the Government and
the Opposition working hand in glove on this because it's too important to play politics with.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: The Business Council of Australia was close to the Coalition when it was in
government. Now that Labor is in power, are you working on making up for lost ground?

KATE LAHEY: Well our position is that we are interested in policy not politics. We're trying to
work with both sides. We've both discussions in detail with both the Opposition and Labor because
we think this is the sort of issue that big business should have a say on, should have a position
on and should be helping both sides to understand the implications for business.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: But Malcolm Turnbull seems to think that he is being neglected by big business. He
wants big business to tell the Government that the Opposition is being thoroughly rational about
emissions trading. Will you?

KATE LAHEY: We can't say that because we don't know what the Opposition's position is. If we could
see that and we could work with the Opposition, we would be delighted to do that.

But we feel we're between a rock and a hard place. From the Government's side, we haven't seen the
detail of the regulations and from the Opposition's side, we have not had a clear enunciation of
their position and the amendments they want to see going forward.

So we are trying to work with both sides to come up with a scheme that will be good for business,
good for the environment and keep Australia tracking towards growth.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Business is demanding certainty so should the carbon trading scheme be passed next

KATE LAHEY: Well we think the first thing is to get the scheme right. Pass it next week, next week,
the week after, the month after. The main thing is to get the scheme right. The timing is the
secondary issue.

And the devil is in the detail. I can tell you having worked at the Business Council now for a
number of years, this is the most complex piece of public policy work that we have ever been faced
with. And we have been in this debate with the Government and the Opposition for six, nine months,
12 months. The detail is mind blowing but it has to be right.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Malcolm Turnbull says that a vote should be delayed until next year. In your view
would it be in everyone's interest to get it passed next year or this year?

KATE LAHEY: Well I go back to the point again. We want to get the scheme right first. That is the
most important point and let's then pass the scheme.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: It doesn't necessarily have to be this year then that the design of the scheme is

KATE LAHEY: Well we'd prefer to bring it on sooner rather than later because business always wants
certainty, but there is no point in bringing on early a flawed scheme.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Could it be a case of Malcolm Turnbull needing big business to apply some pressure
on the hardliners in his own party who are against the emissions trading scheme and voting on it
this year?

KATE LAHEY: Well Alex, I do think there is a lot of politics in this and we are looking at it from
a business perspective rather than a political perspective. I think there are issues that obviously
the Opposition has got to work through in its own party room and in the same way, I assume that the
Government has had to work through.

PETER CAVE: The Business Council of Australia's Katie Lahey, speaking there to Alexandra Kirk in

Iran's Supreme Leader to speak as protests continue

Iran's Supreme Leader to speak as protests continue

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:21:00

Reporter: Meredith Griffiths

PETER CAVE: More mass demonstrations are expected in Iran today but this time it will be the
Government's supporters who are out in force.

The Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is due to address the nation for the first time since
last week's disputed election.

The venue he's chosen is Tehran University where students have reportedly come under attack from
pro-government militia.

Meredith Griffiths reports.

MEREDITH GRIFFITHS: Of all the scenes of mass gatherings on the streets of Tehran this week, most
have been of Opposition supporters demanding a recount or a new vote.

But the followers of Mir-Hossein Mousavi have been told to stay off the streets today so as not to
appear to be backing the Government.

The country's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is due to give a speech after Friday prayers.
He backs the President's re-election and the authorities have been urging people to attend his
address in person, even arranging bus services.

The Ayatollah will be speaking at Tehran University which appears to have come under some kind of
attack one night this week. There's been no official account of what happened there, but some
academics say their students were attacked by members of the hardline Islamic Basij militia which
is sympathetic to the Government.

One young activist contacted by "The World Today" says the attack was fatal.

ACTIVIST: The regime (inaudible) of strategy has tried to disturb the peacefulness of the
gatherings by conducting horrible actions such as ransacking Tehran University dormitory again and
murdering some students and taking many others as prisoners.

MEREDITH GRIFFITHS: An amateur video has been posted on Facebook that apparently shows widespread
damage to the inside of one of the university's buildings.

And another protester who spoke to "The World Today" says he also learned online that between two
and five students were killed.

ACTIVIST 2: I saw the pictures and I heard that the forces had some sort of guns and they started
shooting at students. Some of them got hit on their eyes or head and they died.

MEREDITH GRIFFITHS: That raid has prompted 120 lecturers to resign from the university.

But Professor Sadegh Zibakalam says the violence will not stop the protest.

SADEGH ZIBAKALAM: On the contrary these attacks, these arrests make the people to become more
resolute and more determined.

MEREDITH GRIFFITHS: Adelaide-based filmmaker Granaz Moussavi returned to her native country to vote
and is still in Tehran.

She says she's heard up to 25 people have died. Granaz Moussavi says some of the protests have been
bigger than those leading to the 1979 revolution.

GRANAZ MOUSSAVI: Yesterday when we were marching and just looking at even other people who were
just watching and not really marching but everybody was supporting. Like I was thinking to myself
that, well if this is not majority then what is majority of people?

MEREDITH GRIFFITHS: Much of the media coverage has been coming from Tehran and this Iranian woman,
who didn't want to be named, says it's not necessarily reflective of the country as a whole.

IRANIAN WOMAN: In Tehran it's probably, like from what I've seen, like some who I have talked to,
the people that I have talked to, probably 50/50 the amount of supporters of Mousavi and
Ahmadinejad. But in other cities there is a lot more Ahmadinejad supporters.

MEREDITH GRIFFITHS: You mentioned earlier that some of the western media portrayal could be more
dramatic than what you are seeing playing out in Tehran. We are hearing though, I mean even state
media said that tens of thousands people attended this latest protest. Isn't this unusual for Iran
to see such mass gatherings of people, as you say, without permission from the authorities? And it
has happened now several days in a row. Does that show you that there is something quite different
beginning to happen?

IRANIAN WOMAN: I am not sure yet because it has only been the supporters of one side really that
has been holding the rallies. What they have been demanded is for the vote to be recounted and
until the Guardian Council assesses this situation, I think probably they will still have these
doubts going in their heads.

But most probably after a report is issued with representatives of all four candidates, then people
will probably start to calm down a bit.

MEREDITH GRIFFITHS: Later today European leaders are to set to condemn the use of violence against
protesters in Iran. In a draft statement they are urging Tehran to investigate the claims of
electoral fraud.

PETER CAVE: That report from Meredith Griffiths.

Suicide bombing kills 20 in Somalia

Suicide bombing kills 20 in Somalia

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:25:00

Reporter: Lindy Kerin

PETER CAVE: Escalating violence in Somalia has claimed the lives of 20 people, including the
country's Security Minister.

A suicide bombing north of the capital Mogadishu has been described as the country's deadliest
attack carried out by the hardline Islamist rebel group Al Shabaab.

The group is part of the campaign trying to topple the fragile UN-backed Government.

Lindy Kerin reports.

LINDY KERIN: The suicide bomber drove the car packed with explosives to the entrance of the hotel
near the Ethiopian border.

The blast killed the Somali Security Minister Omar Hashi Aden and 19 others. Another 30 people were
wounded in the attack.

The President Sharif Sheikh Ahmed told a news conference terrorists were to blame.

SHARIF SHEIKH AHMED (translated): As you see this country is being attacked by terrorists who don't
accept that a Somali flag be raised or the existence of the Somali nation and peace in this
country. Under the pretext of the Islamic religion, they see it as permissible to kill people, to
rob them of their belongings and their dignity.

You know that many foreigners are coming into Somalia every day and bringing more problems. The
Government is responsible as far as it can be for defending the people and the nation from this
kind of danger.

LINDY KERIN: The militant Islamist group Al Shabaab has claimed responsibility for the bombing,
saying one of its "holy warriors" carried out the attack. The group is believed to have links with
Al Qaeda.

The bombing is the latest in a series of attacks by Islamist insurgents who are trying to topple
Somalia's western backed Government.

Fierce clashes on Wednesday between Islamist rebels and government forces killed at least 26 people
in Mogadishu, including the capital's police commander.

Speaking to the BBC, the UN Special Representative for Somalia Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah denied that
the peace process has come to an end.

AHMEDOU OULD-ABDALLAH: In fact it is doing very well. You cannot prevent suicide bombers, someone
who is committed to kill himself or herself, there is nothing you can do.

And the investigation will be very interesting to see where the suicide bomber comes from. Are they
Somali? Are they foreigner?

LINDY KERIN: Andrew Stroehlein writes on Somalia for the International Crisis Group. He says the
country has been in chaos for nearly two decades, without an effective national government since

ANDREW STROEHLEIN: There really needs to be three things right away, as soon as the international
community can push for them. One is a ceasefire on the ground. I mean we are not talking about a
long peace process - just a ceasefire - simple.

The second thing is creating some safe havens for civilians to, there has been such displacement
over the last month, five weeks or so. I'm talking about 120,000 people displaced from their homes.
So there needs to be some safe havens for them.

And next there has to be some safe corridors for humanitarian aid.

LINDY KERIN: Andrew Stroehlein says peace negotiations have broken down over the past few months.
He says the United Nations has been trying to mediate but with very little success.

ANDREW STROEHLEIN: Everything was looking at least semi-positive for Somalia up until a couple of
months ago. There was a new President that came in, President Sheikh Sharif came in in December and
in the following months as an Islamist himself, it was at least hopeful that he was going to be
able to pull in some of the more moderate elements into the transitional federal government and
there was some international push behind that.

Unfortunately it did kind of run aground on this particular issue of you know, which militants to
talk to and which not to. And of course it is a very difficult situation. No-one wants to talk to
some of these more radical elements. But the problem is, in any peace process you are dealing with
elements that are not particularly nice guys. You just have to get on with it and bring some peace
to this place that hasn't had any for almost two decades now.

PETER CAVE: Andrew Stroehlein, an expert on Somalia ending Lindy Kerin's report.

Egypt set to join N-club with help from Australia

Egypt set to join N-club with help from Australia

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:29:00

Reporter: Sue Lannin

PETER CAVE: Egypt has signed a deal with an Australian engineering company to build a 1200 megawatt
power station and nuclear power station in the country.

The engineering firm WorleyParsons will advise the Egyptian Government on site and technology
selection, construction and training.

Potential locations include Dabaa on the Mediterranean coast, where Egypt planned to build a power
station in the 1980s.

Sue Lannin reports.

SUE LANNIN: Egypt has long been angling to join the nuclear club and now it looks like it could be
part of the league.

Australian engineering services firm WorleyParsons will help the country build its first nuclear

Gordon Thompson from the Institute for Resource and Security Studies in the United States says the
geo political implications are serious.

GORDON THOMPSON: Well this is a region that suffers from instability and it's at a crucial
geopolitical point due to the oil reserves of the region.

We have seen already the concern that arises from Iran's nuclear power program.

SUE LANNIN: So what does that mean for Egypt?

GORDON THOMPSON: It means that the fear is that a number of countries in the region will acquire
nuclear technology with a view to developing a reserve capability to weaponise.

SUE LANNIN: The project is worth more than $200-million and analysts say it will help WorleyParsons
expand in the nuclear industry.

The company already provides nuclear consultancy and engineering services in Europe, the Soviet
Union and Africa.

WorleyParsons refused to comment.

Professor Leslie Kemeny from the International Nuclear Energy Academy says it's a win for the

LESLIE KEMENY: The Middle East is regarded as a geopolitical flashpoint and that could be a concern
in some people's minds. But I think Egypt would not represent a real danger from that point of

I just look at it as the nuclearisation of Africa because South Africa went nuclear about 20 years
ago and now operates two big French nuclear power stations and are in line for about another eight.
And Egypt would be a logical second country in Africa to go nuclear.

SUE LANNIN: Egypt signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 1981 but it hasn't signed
protocols allowing short notice inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Richard Tanter from the Nautilus Institute at RMIT says that's a concern.

RICHARD TANTER: The additional protocols have been significant tightening in the AEIA's regime of
safeguards. That's certainly what was a very important outcome of that whole debacle with Iraq.
It's certainly what tripped up South Korea and revealed experiments which were secret there.

And in the case of Egypt, particularly given the proliferation potential in that region, not saying
anything of the anxieties about nuclear energy in the region, it's very important that the
additional protocol be in place before there's any further developments of Egyptian nuclear power.

PETER CAVE: Richard Tanter from the Nautilus Institute at the RMIT.

NASA takes another small step

NASA takes another small step

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:32:00

Reporter: Kim Landers

PETER CAVE: In the United States NASA has launched a new lunar exploration mission in anticipation
of sending astronauts back to the moon in the year 2020.

A rocket carrying a lunar orbiter and a lunar probe has blasted off from the Kennedy Space Center
in Florida.

The aim of the mission is to try to find a place for humans to land on the moon again and to seek
out whether there's any water on the moon.

Our North America correspondent Kim Landers reports.

KIM LANDERS: Americans have been the only people to walk on the moon and it's nearly 40 years since
that historic first landing.

NEIL ARMSTRONG (archival audio): That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

KIM LANDERS: NASA's current goal is to return humans to the moon by 2020 and it's working on new
rockets and capsules that could make the journey.

Today's mission is the first step.

ROCKET LAUNCH SUPERVISOR: Three, two, one; main engine ignition and lift off of the Atlas V rocket
with LRO LCROSS - America's first step in a lasting return to the moon.

KIM LANDERS: Part of the Atlas rocket that blasted off today will deliberately smash into a crater
on the moon at about 9,000 kilometres per hour.

ASTRONAUT: There goes accelerating smoothly and we're at 7Gs as we pass through the maximum dynamic

KIM LANDERS: It'll send up a huge plume of dust up to 10 kilometres into the air. A special probe
will try to detect if any of the lunar material that's kicked up contains water ice - something
that could come in handy for explorers who want to spend long periods on the moon.

The rocket's also carrying a Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter.

John Logsdon is the chair in aerospace history at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington

JOHN LOGSDON: LRO will go into orbit, a low orbit about 50 kilometres above the moon and do all
kinds of measurements to look for landing sites, to understand the moon's environment better than
we do, to get more detailed maps with particular attention to the areas around the north and south
pole which is where we think the first humans that go back to the moon are likely to land.

KIM LANDERS: What's the idea? Why send man back to the moon 40 years after mankind first went?

JOHN LOGSDON: Well first of all it will be men and women going back to the moon this time around.
And the idea is to go and finish exploration.

Apollo really was about the political competition with a kind of minimal science component and it
only went to a very narrow area of the moon so there is lots of the moon left to explore. There is
good science to be done on the moon, science to be done from the moon.

It's one place where you could put a radio observatory and not have it subject to all the
interference from radio and television broadcasting on Earth.

And there are people that believe that there are economically valuable resources on the moon that
can be exploited so the idea is probably to go to one location over and over again and build up a
research base somewhat on the model of what we have in Antarctica today.

KIM LANDERS: President Barack Obama has ordered a review of the future of America's space program
including the moon mission.

Almost 40 years after humans first set foot on the lunar surface, John Logsdon says we may have to
wait a bit longer before people spend more time on the moon.

JOHN LOGSDON: This mission this afternoon is the start of a decade, maybe even centuries long
process of moving humans permanently off the surface of their home planet. It's a robotic explorer
that precursors humans but it is tied into eventual human movement away from the planet.

KIM LANDERS: Abandoning planet earth?

JOHN LOGSDON: No we'll be here too, but it will help make humanity a multi-planet species.

KIM LANDERS: How long until we see that, do you think?

JOHN LOGSDON: Oh I would say for people be born, live and die on another place, it's probably 50 to
100 years from now.

KIM LANDERS: The question is whether the US wants to or can afford to return people to the moon.

This is Kim Landers in Washington for "The World Today".

Poverty report makes depressing reading

Poverty report makes depressing reading

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:37:00

Reporter: Simon Santow

PETER CAVE: One of the nation's leading welfare providers says it's time to tackle the underlying
causes of poverty.

Anglicare is warning that not enough is being done to help the long term poor get back on their

And Anglicare has also used a new report to reject the theory that a new class of poor has emerged
as a direct result of the global financial crisis. It says its clients tend to be the same people
who have always needed assistance.

Simon Santow reports.

SIMON SANTOW: Charities are doing all they can to highlight the plight of the poor and the

Last night in Sydney, St Vincent de Paul hosted more than 200 chief executives as they slept rough
with little more than cardboard to keep the cold and the wind at bay.

Phillip Grueff is from ARCS Building Group.

PHILLIP GRUEFF: It was cold. I slept on the bare concrete with a sleeping bag and I had my snow
jacket on and I still had the little shiver and the teeth were clanging together. It was a good
night. We are here awake now so it's all good.

SIMON SANTOW: You spoke last night about it helping understand what it's like for people. What sort
of light did it shed for you?

PHILLIP GRUEFF: Look I get the flash, the three years about homelessness but I have been talking to
some CEOs this morning and you know even they were saying, "Wow, how tough was it last night?" you
know. "Geez it was hard laying on that, every time I turned you know I got uncomfortable. I really
didn't get a good night's sleep." And they said, "Wow, you know, it must be really tough for these
people out there."

So you know, it brought a lot of awareness to 220 people tonight.

SIMON SANTOW: Anglicare Sydney may not have had a sleep-out but they're using a new report to show
some of the neediest in society are finding it as difficult as ever to break free from the cycle of

CEO, Peter Kell:

PETER KELL: Both we and the Government have been providing a service which only meets part of
people's needs. We perhaps had a too simple view of poverty.

When we have a look at the people who have been coming to us over the last couple of years which
this report "Social Exclusion - The Sydney Experience" deals with, we see that they don't just have
the classical poverty description of not having enough money. Their needs go much deeper than that.

SIMON SANTOW: Single parents, people living alone, renters, people dependent on welfare and
Indigenous Australians continue to be the poorest in society.

And Peter Kell rejects recent reports that there's evidence a new class of poor arising from the
global financial crisis is swamping social services.

PETER KELL: The experience of our emergency relief centres would indicate that it's not a major
part of the people that we are helping.

However I would put one caveat on that. This report deals with the period ending in February this
year. Unemployment here is only just starting on the rise. All the economists tell us that it is
going to get to 8 or 9 per cent from its current 5 point something.

So the demand for this kind of help is clearly going to go up over the next 12 to 18 months as
unemployment goes up.

SIMON SANTOW: Anglicare says it has welcomed huge boosts to the amount of money provided for
emergency relief for the poor but now it wants the focus to move beyond bandaids and towards
tackling the underlying causes of poverty.

PETER KELL: We need to work out how we wrap around the immediate help of food vouchers, rent
payments, utility payments with other case management assistance which helps people with their
other needs, their needs in relation to child problems or lack of skilling, lack of education, not
even knowing how to prepare a nutritious meal - all these sorts of things which we sort of take for
granted in normal Australia but which go to present these people on this continuum of despair that
they are on.

SIMON SANTOW: Anglicare says it hopes it can convince the Federal Government to adopt a new model
of assistance. As for money and donations, it's confident Australians will continue to give even
when times are tough.

PETER CAVE: Simon Santow with that report.

Fire authorities warn next danger season only weeks away

Fire authorities warn next danger season only weeks away

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:41:00

Reporter: Jennifer Macey

PETER CAVE: Authorities in south-east Australia are already preparing for the next fire season
which they say is only 10 weeks away.

The peak body for the fire and emergency service organisations made the warning at an International
Wildfire Management Conference held in Sydney this morning.

Fire services from around the world are meeting to share expertise and draw lessons from the
Victorian Bush Fires which killed 173 people.

Naomi Brown, the CEO of the Australasian Fire and Emergency Service Authorities Council told
Jennifer Macey they still don't know what went wrong on that day.

NAOMI BROWN: In terms of the ferocity, we know a lot about the conditions and the heat and so on.

What I was saying earlier is that we still don't have a total understanding of what happened on
that day - who was doing what; how people actually died; what the houses did; which houses
survived. Keeping in mind that many thousands of people survived this and their houses survived

We are still collecting a lot of evidence too to understanding actually what did happen on that
day. I mean obviously we know that the basics and the fundamentals but there is a lot of analysis
to go on yet.

JENNIFER MACEY: One of the big things that are coming out of the Royal Commission into the
Victorian bush fires is, as you said, the stay and defend or leave early policy. That message
didn't seem to get through at the Victorian bush fires and at the Royal Commission someone from the
Californian fire chiefs were saying people should just evacuate.

NAOMI BROWN: In order to evacuate it takes a lot of preparation beforehand. People have to part to
be part of the public policy which it's not in Australia at this point.

Evacuation also requires enough time for people to evacuate. That's really the biggest issue. When
there is really a big sudden fire, the time to evacuate is extremely limited and extremely

So if we can get better at giving people triggers of when to leave early, which we will work very
hard on doing, then people evacuating themselves is the safest thing to do as long as it's early

But I don't think we'll ever be at the point of forcing thousands of people to evacuate. I don't
think that our road systems or our culture is at that point.

JENNIFER MACEY: A lot of people have said that they survived in a bunker but no authority actually
authorises that as a strategy. Is that again something that needs to be looked at?

NAOMI BROWN: Yes. Our concern right now is that there are no standards for bunkers.

There is also some concern that it it's seen as an option to have a bunker so rather than prepare
your house, and there are some issues with that. But we would say yes, bunkers, refuges, all of
those things do need some pretty serious consideration.

JENNIFER MACEY: What about the issue of people who live in the bush? Do they need to take more
responsibility that they are living in a potentially dangerous fire zone?

NAOMI BROWN: Yes, look I think people who are living in any risk area, in fact whether it's flood
or whether it's fire, really do need to understand what those risks are. And we would say it's a
shared responsibility that the fire and emergency services can do sort of so much but there will
never be enough resources for say a fire truck at everybody's house. So actually understanding what
that risk is and making some preparations is really vital to survivability.

JENNIFER MACEY: So you are already preparing for the next fire season?

NAOMI BROWN: Oh, have been for some time, yes. Fire seasons are in Australia the whole year round.

So people in the north of Australia are in or very near a fire season now. For the south of
Australia it's really only a matter of 10, 12 weeks away.

So for those people who are living in bushfire prone areas, I'd strongly urge people to really have
a look at where they live and if they haven't got the information certainly go to any of their fire
services and get some help.

PETER CAVE: That was Naomi Brown the CEO of the Australasian Fire and Emergency Service Authorities
Council speaking to Jennifer Macey.

Taser company says stun gun strikes won't kill

Taser company says stun gun strikes won't kill

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:45:00

Reporter: Annie Guest

PETER CAVE: The company that manufactures the stun gun at the centre of a furore in Queensland has
hit back at its critics.

Taser International says regardless of whether its stun gun was used three times - as originally
reported by police - or 28 times as later came to light, it would not have killed North
Queenslander Antonio Galeano.

The company says that Amnesty International's claim that the Taser is linked to more than 300
deaths worldwide is wrong because no coroner has ever made such a finding.

It comes amid reports the officers involved in last Friday's incident need protection themselves.

Annie Guest reports from Brisbane.

ANNIE GUEST: By this time last week Antonio Galeano had been dead for several hours and the
community was told he'd been hit with a stun gun three times.

But with the admission by Queensland's Police Service and its Minister that the Taser had actually
been fired 28 times at the North Queensland home, there have been many questions about the weapon.

A request for an interview with US-based Taser International leads to a phone call from its
Australian weapons distributor called Breon Enterprises.

Its director is George Hateley and he says he's also a spokesman for Taser International.

GEORGE HATELEY: In a very highly confrontational and life threatening situation, you won't always
recall exactly what you did in real life and sometimes people talk about slow motion type things
that happen in those high intense situations.

ANNIE GUEST: So if an officer won't perhaps necessarily recall how many times the Taser was
discharged, does Taser International say there is a safe upper limit as to how many times it should
be discharged?

GEORGE HATELEY: There is nothing set in concrete because you continue to use force proportionate to
the threat.

ANNIE GUEST: And Queensland Police echoes this view. It surprised many yesterday when a superior
officer said there was no prescribed limit for the amount of times a Taser could be used on

So there is no number of Taser strikes considered unsafe to the human body?

GEORGE HATELEY: No, no, no. It is a very safe piece of equipment to use in comparison to everything
else that policemen have got on their belt at the moment.

ANNIE GUEST: But there are claims by groups such as Amnesty International that Tasers have been
linked to hundreds of deaths. Do you then say that that has never happened, that a Taser has never
caused harm to a human body that has led to a death?

GEORGE HATELEY: That's right, yes. There is no evidence by anyone in the world to directly
attribute Taser to a death.

ANNIE GUEST: So no coroner has ever linked Taser to a death?

GEORGE HATELEY: A direct death, no.

ANNIE GUEST: So while there has been a lot of criticism that this Taser was apparently discharged
28 times and not the three originally reported, what you are saying is that in terms of the man's
ultimate death, it's irrelevant.

GEORGE HATELEY: Well, his death is not irrelevant but the...

ANNIE GUEST: The Taser being fired.

GEORGE HATELEY: Yes, yes, good, yep.

ANNIE GUEST: Taser International's defence of its weapon through its Australian distributor comes
as the stun gun wins qualified support from one independent Australian expert who did a safety
analysis of the weapon back in 2003.

The retired biomedical engineer John Southwell says the Taser can be a good tool for law enforcers.

JOHN SOUTHWELL: I think they are in some cases. I think the operators though need to be trained
specifically, specifically in the use of them.

ANNIE GUEST: And John Southwell says important information about Tasers includes the fact that they
don't work on everyone.

JOHN SOUTHWELL: The Taser only works on around 95 per cent of people so that there will be some
that it won't work on; and if it doesn't work the first time, I don't think you should keep on
actually doing it repeatedly.

ANNIE GUEST: Meanwhile it has been revealed the officers called to Antonio Galeano's home a week
ago reportedly now need police protection because they've received threats.

The Police Union says it knows nothing about it. However it has called for calm.

PETER CAVE: Annie Guest reporting.

More questions about Territory's policies for the bush

More questions about Territory's policies for the bush

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:50:00

Reporter: Sara Everingham

PETER CAVE: This weekend marks two years since the beginning of the Federal intervention in the
Northern Territory.

Earlier this week the Commonwealth began a series of consultations with people in Central Australia
about possible changes to its emergency response.

But further north it's another issue which has many Indigenous people fired up - the Territory
Government's policy on small remote outstations or homelands on Aboriginal land.

Sara Everingham has this report.

SARA EVERINGHAM: Yilpara is a tiny homeland on Blue Mud Bay in north-east Arnhem Land. The
community looks over a small pristine beach.

As Djambawa Marawilli watches the waves roll in, he says tells me there's nowhere he'd rather be.

DJAMBAWA MARAWILLI: For me homelands and the remote place like this, it is the safest place and the
healthiest place to live.

SARA EVERINGHAM: Yilpara is home to about 150 people. There's a school but at the moment around 60
children of different ages are taught in two classrooms.

More funding is in the pipeline but Djumbawa Marawilli wants more government funding for housing
and more help to create jobs.

DJAMBAWA MARAWILLI: I need to see a school where all the children should be having school right
here. Education is really important to me. Education is the key.

SARA EVERINGHAM: But under a new territory policy funding for homelands such as Yilpara is set to
remain the same.

Recently at Yilpara Aboriginal people from Arnhem Land burnt the policy document to show their

Aboriginal people started moving into more remote and smaller communities such as Yilpara in the

The challenge for governments since then has been how to deliver services to small outstations
spread over a large area.

The Northern Territory Government says its new growth town's policy is an attempt to do just that.
It sets out a plan to create 20 larger hub communities. People in smaller homelands will travel
there for government services and secondary schools.

Money for homelands will not increase and there will be no money for new ones.

Malarndirri McCarthy is the Northern Territory's Minister for Children.

MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: We recognise that in over 20 years' time half the population will be
Aboriginal in the Northern Territory. Most of that is going to be in our regions and it would be
irresponsible for our Government not to be planning so that these communities become towns in our
regions for population growth.

SARA EVERINGHAM: The policy is one reason why the territory MP Marion Scrymgour recently quit the
Labor party.

MARION SCRYMGOUR: The growth towns concept and if you look at the, you know the $160-million that
is going over those 20 communities to increase some of the infrastructure - whether that increases
a lot of those services and the infrastructure you know we'll have to wait to see.

I support that concept of moving with that but it doesn't mean you put all your eggs in one basket
and forget about the homelands because that is an important growth area that certainly still needs
to and continues to be supported.

SARA EVERINGHAM: The policy includes $160-million over five years for the 20 growth towns. Funding
for outstations will remain at $36-million a year.

The closest growth town to Yilpara is Yirrkala, several hundred kilometres away by road. In the wet
season it's cut off. Getting people to Yirrkala will be expensive.

Marion Scrymgour again:

MARION SCRYMGOUR: These people deserve more. Their populations have increased, their infrastructure
has never been upgraded.

SARA EVERINGHAM: But Rolf Gerritsen from Charles Darwin University says the debate about the policy
is irrelevant.

ROLF GERRITSEN: Well it's like a debate about whether or not Australia should put a man on the
moon. You know you can be in favour of it or against it. The reality is we are not going to. This
is a policy that is not going to be implemented.

SARA EVERINGHAM: He says it simply doesn't include enough money to make a difference for people in
the bush .

ROLF GERRITSEN: The $160-million that has been identified is over four years so that is $40-million
a year for 20 hub towns so that's $2-million each which might build you two classrooms onto the
school. I don't see the money is there to do it.

PETER CAVE: Dr Rolf Gerritsen from Charles Darwin University ending that report from Sara

Ursula singing her dreams

Ursula singing her dreams

The World Today - Friday, 19 June , 2009 12:54:00

Reporter: Sara Everingham

PETER CAVE: It's a long way from Maningrida in Arnhem Land to singing at Carnegie Hall, but Ursula
Yovich has done it and now she's put her journey into a song.

Seen most recently in the movies "Australia" and "Jindabyne", Ursula Yovich is performing at the
Adelaide Cabaret Festival, telling her personal story of growing up torn between cultures.

Nance Haxton reports from Adelaide.

(Ursula Yovich singing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow")

NANCE HAXTON: "Over the Rainbow" has been a recurring theme in Ursula Yovich's life.

She started dreaming of singing on stages around the world as a young child while growing up
between the isolated township of Maningrida in Arnhem Land and Darwin.

URSULA YOVICH: Everyone's story is very different but mine was a lot to do with identity and
dealing with the changes that came into my life as I was growing up. There is not a moment where I
thought I could be somebody else. I always wanted to sing but it was always a dream, it was not
something that I thought I can actually go out and do it.

NANCE HAXTON: Then a year ago when she was asked to be part of the Black Arm Band, the song came
back into her life again.

URSULA YOVICH: I was asked to do the Black Arm Band, murundak for the Sydney Festival and I found
out that I was pregnant on that day that we were doing our little tech rehearsals and the song that
I was singing was "Somewhere Over the Rainbow".

NANCE HAXTON: Ursula Yovich is now in Adelaide to put her story into song at the Cabaret Festival
in her show Magpie Blues.

(Ursula Yovich singing)

NANCE HAXTON: She tells how having a Serbian father and an Aboriginal mother is a strong
undercurrent in her life.

While she confidently travels around the world to sing on stages such as Carnegie Hall and the
Queen Elizabeth Hall in London, she says her most challenging journey is between two cultures.

URSULA YOVICH: It is challenging. I mean, my father, English is his second language and my mother
English is her second language as well, and English is my first.

Now that I have discovered my mum again and just dealing with family stuff - just the protocols
like within Indigenous culture it's so intricate and complicated and I don't get it.

NANCE HAXTON: Have you been to Serbia?

URSULA YOVICH: No, I haven't. I talked to my dad about it because he hasn't been there since he
came here and that was more than 30 years ago. Yeah, I'd love to go back. I have an interest to see
what my family looks like. They know about us which is a great thing but I haven't talked to them.
They're a very poor family so the phone thing doesn't exist for them. So, you know, yeah (laughs).

NANCE HAXTON: Is that what the white feathers and the black feathers are about in the show as well?

URSULA YOVICH: Yes, it is. The magpie is also my totem. I don't know, one day I just kind of went
because I don't know anything about my black side as well, and I was asking my mum, you know what
is my totem because I had no idea. And she said it was a magpie and I was like, oh okay.

At first I was disappointed because I thought, it's not really a pretty bird, you know it couldn't
be like the brolgas that are quite graceful. But then I thought, yeah they can sing those magpies.
They have got really beautiful voices. I'd like to think, yeah, I fit that quite well.

NANCE HAXTON: And once her story is told in the intimate forum of cabaret, Ursula Yovich will
return to "Over the Rainbow" in her role as Dorothy in the stage production of "The Wizard of Oz".

URSULA YOVICH: When "The Wizard of Oz" came up I thought I can't say no - I've got to kind of pay
homage to the show and say yes.

NANCE HAXTON: It's been quite a theme from Australia and into the Wiz of Oz now.

URSULA YOVICH: I think I've been following my own little yellow brick road (laughs).

(Ursula Yovich singing "Somewhere over the Rainbow")

PETER CAVE: Ursula Yovich ending Nance Haxton's report.