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(generated from captions) This Program is Captioned Live # Theme music I'm Waleed Aly. Hi, Welcome to Big Ideas, On the show today - he's been called in the Western World. the greatest intellectual influence His name is Noam Chomsky. He revolutionised linguistics, a champion of free speech, but he's also known as an incisive analyst of power of US foreign policy. and a courageous critic was packed to capacity Sydney Town Hall Lecture on revolutionary pacificism. when he delivered the Sydney Peace by Professor Stuart Rees He was introduced to the crowd from the Sydney Peace Foundation. 'At long last', And many of us thought, came somebody who for 50 years to the top of the power of speech, freedom of the press has been a champion of freedom and censorship and has challenged secrecy in government of all kinds, has spoken truth to power the undue influence of the media and has told us about in manufacturing consent. a distinguished social scientist, That person, of course, was scientist of linguistics Noam Chomsky. and great champion of human rights, At this point I'm going to ask you to the stage to welcome Professor Chomsky

I'm going to explain to him and in front of you why he really won the Peace Prize. Noam Chomsky.

(Applause) He hasn't said anything yet. (Audience laughs) about the three criteria, Noam, In addition to the things I've said of the Peace Prize, which have to do with the selection familiar with your notion we obviously were completely that academics, for example, between theory and practice, should not make a distinction that we have an obligation that you have an obligation, and what we stand for to say what we believe in of the students, and in the vernacular

who has not only talked the talk, you'd be one of the key people but also walked the walk. And at a time when education business commodity has become such a huge important. that's incredibly, incredibly to you inspiring the conviction The citation from the jury refers of millions about a common humanity and for unfailing moral courage and we've rewarded you too

and censorship in government for challenging secrecy the business of violence and for always questioning and even of domestic policies. as a piece of foreign ability to create hope, But we were also inspired by your through scholarship and activism universal human rights. about the attainment of That's what it says. as to a language expert like you, That citation may,

sound a bit wordy, a committee of eight people. but it was crafted by 16 years ago, Now you were here in 12345, about the human rights abuses, to remind Australians indeed the genocide, in East Timor. that was going on up the road And I often thought then, come back to this stage I wonder if you'll ever have to do would be to sit here and if you did come back, all you'd to come and show their gratitude. and the audience would merely need get away with that. But you're not going to We've come to show our gratitude, to invite you to give but it's now my great pleasure Peace Prize Lecture. the 2011 City of Sydney (Applause)

the United Nations was founded, As we all know, according to its founding document, from the scourge of war.' 'To save succeeding generations deep regret These words can only elicit to fulfil this aspiration, when we consider how we have acted a few significant successes, although there have been notably in Europe. the most violent place on Earth, For centuries, Europe had been internal conflicts with murderous and destructive and the forging of a culture of war to conquer most of the world, that enabled Europe who were hardly pacifists, shocking the victims, by the all-destructive fury but who were 'appalled of European warfare,' historian, Geoffrey Parker. in the words of British military

Europe to impose on its conquests And the same culture of war enabled injustice of the Europeans,' what Adam Smith called 'the savage as he did not fail to emphasise. England in the lead, a particularly horrifying form The global conquest took 'the Anglosphere', in what is sometimes called

settler-colonial societies that's England and its offshoots,

were devastated in which the indigenous societies or exterminated. and their people dispossessed internally the most peaceful But since 1945 Europe has become region of the Earth, and in many ways most humane of some its current travail, which is the source that I will have to put aside now. an important topic

transformation is often attributed to In scholarship, this dramatic the thesis of the democratic peace. do not go to war with one another. The thesis that democracies

is that Europeans came to realise Not to be overlooked, however,

in their favourite pastime that the next time they indulge the game will be over. of slaughtering one another, a means of destruction Civilisation has developed too weak to retaliate in kind, that can only be used against those of the post-World War II years. a large part of the appalling history great power at conflict has ended. It is not that the threat of came painfully close US-Soviet confrontations to virtually terminal nuclear war shattering to contemplate, in ways that are if we inspect them carefully. all too ominously alive, But the threat of nuclear war remains I will briefly return. a matter to which the scourge of war? Can we proceed to at least limit absolute pacifists, One answer is given by that includes people I respect to go beyond that. though I have never felt able I think, A somewhat more persuasive stand, and social activist AJ Muste, is that of the pacifist thinker 20th Century America, in my opinion. one of the great figures of 'revolutionary pacifism'. This is what he called without justice. Muste disdained the search for peace 'One must be a revolutionary He urged that, before one can be a pacifist.' By which he meant we have to cease to acquiesce so easily in evil conditions, and we must deal honestly and adequately with this 90% of our problem,

the violence on which the present system is based, and all the evil material and spiritual this entails for the masses of men throughout the world. Unless we do so, he argued, 'There is something ludicrous, and perhaps hypocritical, about our concern for the 10% of the violence employed by the rebels against oppression. ' And that's true no matter how hideous they may be. He was confronting the hardest problem of the day for a pacifist, the question whether to take part in the anti-fascist war. In writing about Muste's stand 45 years ago, I quoted his warning that, 'The problem after a war is with the victor.

He thinks he has just proved that war and violence pay. Who will teach him a lesson?' His observation was all too apt at the time. That was while the Indochina wars were raging. And on all too many other occasions since then. The allies did not fight 'the good war', as it is commonly called, because of the awful crimes of fascism. Before their attacks on Western powers, fascists were treated rather sympathetically, particularly 'that admirable Italian gentleman', as FDR, President Roosevelt, called Mussolini.

Even Hitler was regarded by the US State Department as a 'moderate' holding off the extremists of right and left. The British were even more sympathetic, particularly the business world.

Roosevelt's close confidant, Sumner Welles, reported to the president that the Munich settlement that dismembered Czechoslovakia, quote him, 'presented the opportunity for the establishment by the nations of the world of a new world order based on justice and upon law,'

in which the Nazi moderates would play a leading role. As late as April 1941, after the war had broken out, the influential statesman, George Kennan, who was at the dovish extreme of the post-war planning spectrum, wrote from his consular post in Berlin that German leaders 'have no wish to see other people suffer under German rule,' are, 'most anxious that their new subjects should be happy in their care,' and are making important compromises to assure this benign outcome. Though by then the horrendous facts of the Holocaust were well known, they scarcely entered the Nuremberg trials, which focused on aggression, what the tribunal called, 'the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole,' everything that follows the aggression. where we have much to contemplate. of Japanese fascism The horrifying crimes in the post-war peace settlement. were virtually ignored of Japanese fascism The horrifying crimes with the staged Mukden Incident, it began 10 years later, but for the West, in two US possessions, with the attack on military bases Pearl Harbor and Manilla.

India and other major Asian countries San Francisco Peace Treaty conference refused even to attend the 1951 of Japan's crimes in Asia because of the exclusion establishment and also because of Washington's

in conquered Okiniwa - of a major military base protests of the population. still there despite the energetic aspects of the Pearl Harbor attack It's useful to reflect on several 70 years ago. Kennedy advisor, Arthur Schlesinger, One is the reaction of historian,

in March 2003. to the bombing of Baghdad Roosevelt's words Schlesinger recalled president on a date which will live in infamy. when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor 'Today', Schlesinger wrote, who live in infamy, 'Today, it is we Americans the policies of imperial Japan,' as our government adopts elsewhere in the mainstream, thoughts that were barely articulated and very quickly suppressed. of this principled stand I could find no mention accomplishments in the praise for Schlesinger's when he died a few years later. a lot about ourselves We can also learn lament a few steps further. by carrying Schlesinger's was justified, indeed meritorious. By today's standards, Japan's attack

Japan, after all, doctrine of anticipatory self-defense was exercising the much lauded in Hawaii and the Philippines, when it bombed military bases two virtual US colonies, with reasons far more compelling and did so could conjure up than anything that Bush and Blair of imperial Japan, in 2003. when they adopted the policies that B-17 Flying Fortresses Japanese leaders were well aware production lines, were coming off the Boeing in the American press and they could read would be able to burn down Tokyo, that these killing machines and wood houses.' called a 'city of rice paper bomb Tokyo and other big cities A November 1940 plan to by Secretary of State Cordell Hull. was enthusiastically received delighted, it was reported, And Roosevelt as well was simply industrial heart of the Empire at the plans to 'burn out the on the teeming bamboo ant heaps with fire-bomb attacks of Honshu and Kyushu.' General Chennault. This was outlined by their author, By July 1941, to the Far East for this purpose, the Air Corps was ferrying B-17s bombers to this region, assigning half of all the big from the Atlantic sea lanes. even taking them They were to be used if needed, on fire,' 'To set the paper cities of Japan Roosevelt's main military adviser. according to General George Marshall, three weeks before Pearl Harbor. That was in a press briefing senior correspondent, Arthur Krock, Four days later, New York Times from Siberian and Philippine bases, reported US plans to bomb Japan incendiary bombs to which the Air Force was rushing intended for civilian targets. The US knew from decoded messages of these plans. that Japan was well aware to support Muste's conclusion that, History provides ample evidence is with the victor, 'The problem after a war proved that war and violence pay.' who thinks he has just to Muste's question And the real answer of who will teach him a lesson, can only be domestic population, moral principles. if they can adopt elementary of these principles And even the most uncontroversial on ending injustice and war. could have a major impact of universality, Consider the principle of moral principles, perhaps the most elementary we apply to others, we apply to ourselves the standards if not more stringent ones.

or nearly so, The principle is universal, in three further respects. in every moral code, It is found in some form it is universally applauded in words, in practice. and consistently rejected and they should be troublesome. The facts are plain, which suffers the same fate. The principle has a simple corollary, We should distribute finite energies outcomes, to the extent that we can influence for which we share responsibility. typically that's on cases with regard to enemies. We take that for granted intellectuals No-one cares whether Iranian condemnation of the crimes of Israel join the ruling clerics in or the United States.

what do they have to say Rather, we ask about the crimes of their own state. on the same grounds. We honoured Soviet dissidents within their own societies. Of course, that is not the reaction as anti-Soviet There dissidents are condemned or supporters of the great Satan,

are condemned as anti-American much as their counterparts here of today's official enemy. or supporters And of course, punishment to elementary moral principles of those who adhere can be severe - on the nature of the society. how severe depends for example, In Soviet-run Czechoslovakia, Vaclav Havel was imprisoned. in US-run El Salvador, At the same time, their brains blown out his counterparts had fresh from renewed training by an elite battalion of Special Warfare in North Carolina, at the John F Kennedy School of the High Command, acting on explicit orders

with Washington. which had intimate relations for his courageous resistance, We all know and respect Havel Latin American intellectuals, but who can even name the leading to the long, bloody trail Jesuit priests, who were added of the Atlacatl brigade, of the Berlin Wall, shortly after the fall and her daughter along with their housekeeper to leave no witnesses? since the orders were that these are exceptions, Before we hear of Latin American scholarship, we might recall a truism

John Coatsworth, reiterated by historian, University History of the Cold War. in the recently published Cambridge He writes, 'From 1960 to the Soviet collapse in 1990, the numbers of political prisoners, torture victims, and executions of nonviolent political dissenters in Latin America vastly exceeded those in the Soviet Union and its East European satellites.' Among the executed were many religious martyrs, and there were mass slaughters as well, consistently supported or even initiated by Washington. And the date 1960 is highly significant, for reasons we should all know - I cannot go into here. In the West all of this is disappeared, to borrow the terminology of our Latin American victims. Regrettably, these are persistent features of intellectual and moral culture, which we can trace back to the earliest recorded history. And I think they richly underscore Muste's injunction. If we ever hope to live up to the high ideals that we passionately proclaim, and to bring the initial dream of the United Nations closer to fulfillment, we should think explicitly and carefully about crucial choices that have been made, and continue to be made every day, quoting Muste again, 'Not forgetting the violence on which the present system is based, and all the evil, material and spiritual, this entails for the masses of men throughout the world.' Among these masses are, for example, six million children who die every year because of lack of simple medical procedures

that the rich countries could make available within statistical error in their budgets. And it includes a billion people on the edge of starvation or worse, but not beyond reach, by any means. We should also never forget that our wealth derives

in no small measure from the tragedy of others. That is dramatically clear in the Anglosphere. I live in a comfortable suburb of Boston. Those who once lived there were, 'victims of the utter extirpation of all the Indians in most populous parts of the Union by means more destructive to the Indian natives than the conduct of the conquerors of Mexico and Peru.' That's the verdict of the first Secretary of War in the newly liberated colonies, General Henry Knox. They suffered the fate of, 'That hapless race of native Americans, which we are exterminating with such merciless and perfidious cruelty among the heinous sins of this nation, for which I believe God will one day bring it to judgement.' Those are the words of the great grand strategist, John Quincy Adams,

intellectual author of Manifest Destiny and the Monroe Doctrine, and that's long after his own substantial contributions to these heinous sins. Australians should have no trouble adding illustrations. Well, whatever the ultimate judgment of God may be, the judgment of man is far from Adams's expectations. I'll mention a few recent cases. Consider what, I suppose, are the two most highly regarded left-liberal intellectual journals in the Anglosphere - the New York and the London reviews of books. In the former, a prominent commentator recently reported what he had learned from the work of Edmund Morgan - 'heroic historian Edmund Morgan', as he described him - what he learned was that when Columbus and the early explorers arrived they found a - I'm quoting him - they found 'a continental vastness sparsely populated by farming and hunting people. In the limitless and unspoiled world stretching from tropical jungle to the frozen north, there may have been scarcely more than a million inhabitants.' stretching from tropical jungle to the frozen north, advanced civilisations. and the 'vastness' included who choose to know, decades ago. These are facts well-known to those No letters appeared colossal case of genocide denial. in response to this truly Hard to match. In the companion London journal,

a noted historian casually mentioned of the Native Americans'. what he called 'the mistreatment Again, eliciting no comment. the word 'mistreatment' We would hardly accept crimes committed by enemies. for comparable or even much lesser from which we benefit enormously Recognition of the heinous crimes after centuries of neglect would be a good start but we can go on from there. was, at one point, the Wampanoag, One of the main tribes where I live not too far away. who still have a small reservation has long ago disappeared Their language of scholarship but in a remarkable feat elementary human rights, and dedication to the language has been reconstructed and comparative evidence, from missionary texts native speaker in 100 years - and it now has its first of Jennie Little Doe, the little daughter of the language herself. who has become a fluent speaker at MIT, She's a former graduate student and colleague Kenneth Hale - she worked with my late friend of the modern period. one of the most outstanding linguists was his leading role Among his many accomplishments languages of Australia. in founding the study of Aboriginal He was also very effective of Indigenous people in the defence of rights in Australia and elsewhere

and justice activist. and also a dedicated peace at MIT He was able to turn our department Indigenous languages into a centre for the study of of Indigenous rights and also active defence in the Americas and beyond. has revitalised the tribe. Revival of the Wampanoag language and sounds. A language is more than just words

history, traditions, It is the repository of culture, a serious blow - Loss of a language is not only to the community itself

who hopes to understand but also to everyone else of human beings, something of the nature their achievements, their capacities, of particular severity and of course a loss and uniformity of human languages - to those concerned with the variety

mental faculties. it's a core component of human higher

can be carried forward, Similar achievements but significant gesture though it would be a very partial on which our wealth and power rests. towards a repentance for heinous sins Since we commemorate anniversaries, the Japanese attacks 70 years ago, such as, for example, that fall right about now, there are several significant ones for both enlightenment and action. with lessons that can serve I'll mention just a few. The West has just commemorated of the 9/11 terrorist attacks the 10th anniversary but no longer, and what was called at the time, of Afghanistan that followed - 'the glorious invasion' even more glorious invasion of Iraq. soon to be followed by the Partial closure for 9/11 was reached the prime suspect, Osama bin Laden, with the assassination of by US commandos who invaded Pakistan,

and then murdered him, apprehended him without autopsy. disposing of the corpse I said 'prime suspect', though long-abandoned doctrine that was recalling the ancient of presumption of innocence.

The current issue of international relations of the major US scholarly journal the Nuremberg trials features several discussions of of some of history's worst criminals. the 'US decision to prosecute, We read there that rather than seek brutal vengeance

the American tradition of rights was a victory for of legalism - and a particularly American brand punishment only for those through a fair trial who could be proved to be guilty protections.' with a panoply of procedural at the time The journal appeared right

of this principle of the celebration of the abandonment in a very dramatic way, of assassination of suspects, while the global campaign 'collateral damage', as it's called, and the inevitable to much acclaim. continues to be expanded, Not, to be sure, universal acclaim.

recently published a study So, Pakistan's leading daily and other US terror. of the effect of drone attacks It found that - I'm quoting it - the tribal regions - Waziristan - that 'about 80% of residents of have been affected mentally the main city there - while 60% of the people of Peshawar - psychological patients are nearing to become immediately,' if these problems are not addressed our young generation is at stake.' and they warned that the 'survival of In part for these reasons, to phenomenal heights in Pakistan, hatred of America had already risen

assassination, and after the bin Laden increased still more. the border One consequence was firing across in Afghanistan at the bases of the US occupying army

of Pakistan that provoked sharp condemnation an American war for their failure to cooperate in oppose, that Pakistanis overwhelmingly the Russians occupied Afghanistan. taking the same stand they did when then lauded, That stand was, of course, now condemned. The specialist literature - in Islamabad - and even the US Embassy to take part in the US invasion, warn that the pressures on Pakistan are - as well as US attacks in Pakistan, I'm quoting, partly from WikiLeaks - and radicalising Pakistan, are 'destabilising

for the United States and the world risking a geopolitical catastrophe could possibly occur in Afghanistan.' which would dwarf anything that military/Pakistan analyst - Last words are quoting the British Anatol Lieven. military and Pakistan analyst, greatly heightened that risk The assassination of bin Laden in ways that remarkably were ignored for assassination of suspects. in the general enthusiasm Anatol Lieven.

If that had happened, maybe more, they would surely have had air cover, in which case there might well have been a major confrontation with the Pakistani army - that's the only stable institution in Pakistan. It's deeply committed to defending Pakistan's sovereignty. Pakistan has a huge nuclear arsenal - the most rapidly expanding in the world. And the whole system is laced with radical Islamists - these are products of the US-Saudi support for the worst of Pakistan's dictators, Zia ul-Haq, and his program of radical Islamisation. This program, along with Pakistan's nuclear weapons, are among Ronald Reagan's legacies. Obama has now added the risk of nuclear explosions - and in London and New York - which could have happened if the confrontation had led to leakage of nuclear materials to Jihadis, as was plausibly feared by specialists.

It's one of the many examples of the constant and often growing threat of nuclear weapons. The assassination of bin Laden had a name. The name was Operation Geronimo. That caused an uproar in Mexico, and was protested by the remnants of the Indigenous population in the United States. But elsewhere, few seemed to comprehend the significance of identifying bin Laden with the heroic Apache Indian chief who led the resistance to the invaders, seeking to protect his people from the fate of 'that hapless race' that John Quincy Adams eloquently described. The imperial mentality is so profound that such matters cannot even be perceived. Actually, there were a few criticisms of Operation Geronimo the name, the manner of execution, and the implications.

These elicited the usual furious condemnations, most unworthy of comment, though some were instructive. The most interesting one was by the respected left-liberal commentator Matthew Yglesias. He patiently explained - I'm quoting him -

that 'one of the main functions of the international institutional order

is precisely to legitimate the use of deadly military force by Western powers,' so it is 'amazingly naive' to suggest that the United States should obey international law or other conditions that we impose on the powerless. These words, incidentally, are not criticism, but applause - and it follows from them that one can raise only tactical objections if the US invades other countries, and otherwise fulfills its obligations in the service of mankind.

If the traditional victims see matters somewhat differently, that merely reveals their moral and intellectual backwardness. And the occasional Western critics who fail to comprehend these fundamental truths can be dismissed as 'silly', Yglesias explains - incidentally, referring specifically to me... (Laughter) ..and I cheerfully confess my guilt. (Laughter) From the first moment, it was clear that the 'glorious invasion' of Afghanistan was anything but that. It was undertaken with the clear understanding that it might drive several million Afghans over the edge of starvation. That's why the bombing was bitterly condemned by the aid agencies that were forced to end the operations on which five million Afghans depended for survival, after three years of drought. Fortunately the worst did not happen, but only the most morally obtuse can fail to comprehend that actions are evaluated in terms of likely consequences, not actual ones. The actual ones were bad enough. The invasion of Afghanistan was not aimed at overthrowing the brutal Taliban regime, as was later claimed. That was an afterthought, brought up three weeks after the bombing began. The explicit reason for the bombing was that the Taliban Bin Laden without evidence, were unwilling to extradite as later learned, which the US refused to provide, because it had virtually none, has very little evidence and in fact still

in an independent court of law, that could stand up hardly in doubt. though his responsibility is gestures towards extradition, The Taliban did in fact make some that there were other such options, and we since have learned in favor of violence, but they were all dismissed the country to shreds. which has since torn decade this year according to the UN, It has reached its highest level in a with no diminution in sight. rarely asked then or since, A very serious question,

to violence. is whether there was an alternative there was. There is strong evidence that

within the Jihadi movement, The 9/11 attack was sharply condemned split it and isolate Al-Qaeda. and there were good opportunities to Washington and London Instead of doing that, by Bin Laden, chose to follow the script provided that the West is attacking Islam, helping to establish his claim new waves of terror. and thus provoking

who is responsible The senior CIA analyst from 1996, Michael Scheuer, for tracking Osama bin Laden and has repeated since that warned right away Bin Laden's only indispensable ally.' 'The United States of America remains consequences These are among the natural of rejecting Muste's warning, revolutionary pacifism, and the main thrust of his which should direct us that lead to violence, to investigating the grievances as they often are, to address them. and when they are legitimate, it can succeed very well. When that advice is taken, Northern Ireland Britain's recent experience in is a good illustration. to IRA terror with greater violence, For years, London responded which reached quite a bitter peak. escalating the cycle, to attend to the grievances, When they government began instead which were quite real, has effectively disappeared. violence subsided and terror I was in Belfast in 1993. At that time it was a war zone. to a city that has tensions, I returned a year ago but hardly beyond the norm. to say about what we call 9/11 There is a great deal more for good reasons, I should say that in Latin America, it's called the second 9/11, to go into that. but I don't have time about 9/11 and its consequences, But there's a lot to say but I do not want to end here several more anniversaries. without mentioning to be the 50th anniversary Right now happens of President Kennedy's decision in South Vietnam to escalate the conflict from vicious repression, of thousands of people which had already killed tens and finally elicited a reaction regime in Saigon could not control. that the client this to outright US invasion, 50 years ago Kennedy escalated bombing by the US Air Force, use of napalm, which soon included crop destruction chemical warfare to deprive the resistance of food, of South Vietnamese and programs to send millions to virtual concentration camps protected from the guerrillas where they could be, as it was said, they were supporting. who, admittedly, the grim aftermath, There is no time to review there should be no need to do so.

devastated, The wars left three countries with a toll of many millions, miserable victims that's not including the chemical warfare assault - of the enormous including newborn infants today,

by these lethal agents. since there was genetic modifications incidentally. As was known at the time, margins who objected. There were a few at the by the term of Kennedy-Johnson, They were 'wild men in the wings,' National Security Adviser McGeorge Bundy, former Harvard Dean. And by the time that the very survival of South Vietnam was in doubt, popular protest became quite strong.

At the war's end in 1975, about 70% of the population regarded the war as fundamentally wrong and immoral and not a mistake. Those are figures that were sustained

as long as the question was asked in polls for several years. In quite revealing contrast, at the dissident extreme of mainstream commentary the war was a mistake, nothing more than that. Because our noble objectives could not be achieved at a tolerable cost, it's worth noting that gap. Another anniversary that should be in our minds today is the anniversary of the massacre in the Santa Cruz graveyard in Dili just 20 years ago.

That was the most publicised of a great many shocking atrocities during the Indonesian invasion, occupation of East Timor. Australia had joined the United States in granting formal recognition to the Indonesian annexation, after its virtually genocidal invasion. The US State Department explained to Congress in 1982 that Washington recognised both the Indonesian occupation and the Khmer Rouge-based Democratic Kampuchea regime. The justification offered was that unquestionably the Khmer Rouge were more representative of the Cambodian people than Fretilin - Timorese resistance - was of the Timorese people, because there has been this long continuity in Cambodia since the very beginning, in 1975, when the Khmer Rouge took power. The media and commentators have been polite enough to allow all of this to languish in silence, not an inconsiderable feat. A few months before the Santa Cruz massacre, foreign minister, Gareth Evans, made his famous statements dismissing concerns about the murderous invasion and annexation on the grounds that world is a pretty unfair place, littered with examples of acquisitions of force, so we can therefore look away as awesome crimes continue with support by the Western powers. Actually, not quite look away, because at the same time Evans was negotiating the robbery of East Timor's sole resource, oil, with his comrade, Ali Alatas, foreign minister of Indonesia, producing what seems to be the only official Western document that recognises East Timor as an Indonesian province. Years later, Evans declared that, 'The notion that we had anything to answer for, morally or otherwise, over the way we handled the Indonesia-East Timor relationship, I absolutely reject.' It's a stance that can be adopted, even respected, by those who emerge victorious.

In the US and Britain, the question is not even asked in polite society. It is only fair to add that in sharp contrast,

much of the Australian population, and much of the media, were in the forefront of exposing and protesting the crimes, some of the worst of the past half century. And in 1999, when the crimes were escalating once again, they had a significant role in pressuring US President Clinton to inform the Indonesian generals in September 1999 that the game was over, at which point they immediately withdrew allowing an Australian-led peacekeeping force to enter. There are lessons here too, for the public.

Clinton's orders could have been delivered at any time in the preceding 25 years, terminating the crimes. Actually, Clinton himself could easily have delivered those orders four years earlier, in October 2005, when General Suharto was welcomed in Washington as 'our kind of guy,' in the words of the Clinton administration. The same orders could have been given 20 years earlier, when Henry Kissinger gave the green light to the Indonesian invasion, and UN Ambassador Daniel Patrick Moynihan expressed his pride in having rendered the United Nations 'utterly ineffective' in any measures to deter the Indonesian invasion. He was later to be revered for his courageous defense of international law. There could hardly be a more painful illustration of the consequences of the failure to attend to Muste's lesson. And it should be added that in a shameful display of subordination to power, some respected Western intellectuals have actually sunk to the level of describing this disgraceful record as a stellar illustration of the humanitarian norm of right to protect.

Consistent with Muste's revolutionary pacifism, the Sydney Peace Foundation has always emphasised peace with justice, as Stuart mentioned before. The demands of justice can remain unfulfilled long after peace has been declared. The Santa Cruz massacre 20 years ago can serve as an illustration. One year after the massacre, the United Nations adopted the Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance. The declaration states that, 'Acts constituting enforced disappearance shall be considered a continuing offence as long as the perpetrators continue to conceal the fate

and the whereabouts of persons who have disappeared and the facts remain unclarified.' The massacre is therefore a continuing offence - the fate of the disappeared is unknown, and the offenders have not been brought to justice, including those who continue to conceal the crimes of complicity and participation. All of which is only one indication of how far we must go to rise to some respectable level of civilised behaviour. Thank you. (Applause) Sydney Peace Prize Winner, Noam Chomsky delivering the Sydney Peace Lecture. That's it for today's Big Ideas. But while I have your attention, don't forget to visit our fabulous new website,

it's where you'll find all the best new talks, plus information about which ones are coming up on the telly. I'm Waleed Aly, see you next time. Closed Captions by CSI 1.. Our wonder comes from a dark and forbidding history where a lord may have drunk human blood as he and his people venerated a spider-like god called 'The Decapitator'. These were the Moche people, who lived on the coasts of Northern Peru between 100 and 800 AD. Here, deep beneath the muddy hills which were once huge majestic pyramids, is the tomb of Lord Sipan who was the spiritual and military leader of the Moche. In the centre, resplendent in jewelled finery, lies Lord Sipan himself. Various bodies were arranged around him. These were the guardians who were to protect him. Eight of them were found in the tomb. One of the so-called guardians had his legs cut off. This was a savage civilisation, known for its blood lust.

For the Moche people, human sacrifice was central to their religion. But they were also great goldsmiths and metalworkers.

A spectacular collection of jewellery was found in the tombs at Sipan,

dating from between the 1st and 3rd centuries AD. The jewels now on display at the tombs are reproductions - the originals moved to a nearby town for safety. The treasure now rests in the museum in the town of Lambayeque. Moche's art is quite sinister, but still compelling and beautiful. The main preoccupation seems to have been death and fertility. Our wonder is this necklace. It's from the tomb of Lord Sipan, dated from about 2,000 years ago. The necklace depicts the spider god, The Decapitator - though, terribly named, had many powers. He was a god of healing. The web heals wounds and stops blood flowing, but he also stood for sacrifice. The head was believed to hold great power, hence decapitation of the enemy was commonplace. Victims were also bound web-like before sacrifice, so the spider's web symbolises tying of the sacrificial victims. Spiders also consume the bodily fluids of their victims. So the Moche people, taking their cue from the nature around them, would drink the blood of their sacrifices. Closed Captions by CSI #.. This Program is Captioned


New warnings of weather

disasters in a critical decade

for Homo sapiens. These are

likely to become increasing sources of injury, death, grief and depression. Dancing in the street, as Michael Jackson's

doctor gets four years doctor gets four years jail. He

engaged in this money for

medicine madness that is simply not going to be tolerated by

me. Echoes of 1979 as students

storm the British embassy in Tehran. Clearly, there will be other further other further and serious consequences. And, there was