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Hello welcome to the

Contrarians I am van vanva

van, this is the only show

where -- I am Peter van Onselen, we try to involve

you the viewer by letting you

spit the dummy on the show.

The policy debates at the

moment are around asylum seekers and obviously the

carbon tax, ironically enough

after so much discussion in

introduction of the carbon the lead-up to the

tax, the oxygen has been sick

ed right out of it and we

have found ourselves talking

about asylum seeker policies

and the government and Opposition manoeuvre over who

is at fault with boat arrives

an the fact offshore

processing looks like it is

dead, buried and cremated at

least in the short term but

the other issue in town at

the moment is Kevin Rudd,

attempting to return to the what's going on? Is he

leadership? I think we all

know he would like it back,

or is this simply a bit of

skull duggery on the part of members of the Opposition who

are feeding this to the media

and perhaps an isolated

number of his supporters.

That is not at ish issue

here, it is is Kevin Rudd

ready to return to the Labor leadership. Has he learnt

from his mistakes from the

first time? There is in Minister Julia Gillard is doubt the present Prime

struggling in the polls but one thing a number of her MP

also tell you is that she

does consult, she is somebody

who works the back rooms well

and holds together this minority government whatever

you may think of it. Kevin

Rudd on the other hand, is

not talking to the

powerbrokers he does not

appear to have taken anything

on board from what went wrong

the first time. Other than

the occasional media interview suggesting that he

has. He's nod opening his

door, is my point, to those

around him that could help

make this happen. This is

telling one because it sends

a message that the

powerbrokers who he could be

talking to and isn't talking

to and he therefore hasn't

learnt anything but also

importantly, secondly it is

political stupidity for him

not to open the door because

going to bring Kevin Rudd a divided Labor Party is not

back to the leadership. The

only way it will happen is if

they all come on board and

this is done as some sort of

consensus change to help

minimise the damage. Joining

us for the first time on the

Contrarians is Dee Madigan,

political commentator and

advertising executive. And

Claire Harvey from the

'Sunday telegraph'. Let knee

go to you -- -- let me go to

you on this Dee. The Prime

Minister has got her problems

are they recoverable or do

you think someone who had the

own communication problems

like -- problems like Kevin

Rudd will have a better

chance? I don't think he

will, the polls said he was the preferred Prime Minister, but I think it will be

political suicide of Labor. I

think John Howard rated 16%

at one stage. Paul Keating

17%, she can bet in the

carbon tax. She has a lot of

time for people to get used

to it, realise the sky doesn't fall in. I don't

think it is over for her at

all. Do you agree Clare? I

think it is possible for

Julia to bring it back but I

think it is unlikely she will. I think we will see a change of leader before the

next election You think we

will. Yeah, I think we will.

The very least see an attempt. I don't necessarily think that is going to win

Labor the election or is the

right thing to do, but I

think it's, there is

enough... Nervousness could

bring it out. Yes, enough

backbenchers panicking and it

always comes down to

whether they are going to backbenchers worrying about

have a job after the next

election It is all good and

well for the power brokers to

take the view we have to

stick and this is interesting

about the Sam Dastiinari

opinion article. He is the

secretary of the NSW Labor

Party and therefore the notional factional leader of

the right. He is only in his 20s but there has been a suggestion by him there is some sort of a return to the

situation where the right is

going to stick behind the

leader as far as possible.

Now I'm hearing from people

around Sam Dastiari if you

like this is an exercise in

saying we may not win this,

exactly as you say Clare but

from a Labor perspective it

is about sticking to avoid

further damage and that's the

potential risk of a change, Dee who you are talking about

if you change you never know

what happens. If they change

they will I think get annihilated whereas I really

think... I think they are doing that anyway that's the problem. I think she can

still win the next election

and I think I am alone there

but I think it really does

seem the right has learnt its

lesson. I think the move

against Gillard if it happens will come from other places

within the party. The right I

think, has finally after

three changes of Premier and

one change of Prime Minister,

in Australia, in the past two

years, has worked out that it

actually doesn't work. That

doesn't mean it won't happen

member of the left again. The irony she is a

notionally, of course you

wouldn't know it to see on

asylum seekers, but she is a member of the left yet it is the left Clare are you

talking about here, the right

powerbrokers are continuing who installed her the

to back her. Shorten and so

forth. Let on the left her traditional faction that helped her get in parliament

in the first place they are

the ones who are starting to

have doubts about her. She had to struggle to get into parliament in the first

place, she was rejektsed for pre-selection several times

including for the Senate. It

even split the left for her

to get in that's how her

animosity with Lindsay Tanner

went. And she won the support

of Kim Carr eventually and

got there. But Julia Gillard

is not popular with everyone

in the Labor Party. It is a

mace take for people to think

that -- a mistake for people to think that and nor is

Kevin Rudd. He is also

disliked. Not just un unpopular. I don't think

Labor is as factually divided

as it once was. It is not as

right and left as it was 10

years ago. The factional power brokers take the view

there is every risk as they

see it that even though they

don't want to move away from

Gillard, that individual MPs

as Clare mentioned,

essentially petrified of load

of losing their jobs will

move anyway. That is so much

messier. Point would you

agree with Dee and you don't

think you should do it or whether you agree with you

and you think they will do

it, the bottom line is to do

it they have to do it cleanly

somehow otherwise the

independents will walk away

and the opt ticks will feed

into the worsening of the

broadband as well. Julia

Gillard is not going to walk

away from this. She is an -

as Albanese says she is a

very tough lady. It also says

to the public that the Labor

Party is making decisions not

the Australian public. The

Australian public does not

like that and we know - I

think there is the support

for will Kevin Rudd be the

preferred Prime Minister

don't believe that they just don't like the way the Labor

Party handled that His

popularity will dwindle away

very quickly. It might take

two or three weeks. Not days

There is one of the things it

was like the fact that the

vote fell away in Queensland for Labor under Julia Gillard

and there was this whole suggestion that that's

because our Kevin, the folio

Queenslander was taken out

and we don't like that. I

think it is because

Queenslanders wished they got

the opportunity to do it

themselves. They are the ones

who called him Dr Death. As a

voter you think that should

be your right and not someone

within the party. That is

exactly right but it's a misunderstanding of the

system of course but how you

do you explain that. The

system is you elect a government as per the entire party and they can elect

their own leader. In other

words their elect the Prime

Minister. People don't see it

that way. That's because the

political parties don't sell

it, Kevin '07 was selling

himself as the leader, not

the Labor Party. How would

you market a Kevin 11. If you

were running a campaign for

Kevin again, how would you

sell it? Well, I will be

very careful now days about

trying to do a personality campaign on a federal level because I think people are

just a little bit gun shy.

But, look I think Julia

Gillard... A agree with that

because the personalities

there at a federal level

aren't sellable. I disagree,

I think, Julia Gillard's very

sellable. I also think Tony

Abbott is very sellable. I

think we have two of the most interesting politicians of

our generation. Really? Yes,

I think they are both

fascinating. As individuals,

Abbott's life story is

fascinating, no don't about

that but in a policy or... I

think he has charisma. Yes,

but the polling tells us that

people are more concerned

about him than in favour of

him but the difference is

that that matters not because

Julia Gillard is far worse on

that criteria. It's a race to

the bottom isn't it? Yeah,

well his danger is once the

carbon tax is in, he is going

to have to unsell people they

already have and people like change, Australians don't

like change. He will have a

harder job going fot next

election than she will in a

lot of ways What he will have

to do at the next election is

to sell his direct action

plan to a constituency which

is now very confused about

climate change. Not quite

sure if it is happen, very

annoyed about the power bills

going up and frankly not in

the mood to be spending mun

money on climate. You have

got his old leader there,

saying, you know, doing him

him a lot of damage in the parliament. Hold those

thoughts. We will go to a commercial break. When we

come back we will talking to the leadership issues and

talk about the asylum seekers

and the carbon tax. The twin

key issues of the last couple

of weeks. We have a couple of

Tweets said, it is highly

unlikely that Julia will ever

gain the respect of the

people or the Labor Party.

That is Julia Gillard. And

another one from Norman. He says, Peter what pruting in

the coffee that causes Dee to

say that? As in thinking

there is any chance of a

Julia Gillard comeback. We

might explore that after after the break.

Welcome back. You are watching the Contrarians we

will continue with the panel

in a moment but first here is

the news headlines.

The arrival of two boats

of asylum seekers has

triggered a slanging match

between the Federal Court and

Coalition over who was responsible. Prime Minister

Julia Gillard says that the

Opposition ends the ability

of governments to process

offshore, then they must

accept responsibility for the

message that sends to

people-smugglers. Opposition immigration spokes person,

Scott Morrison says Nauru worked under the Howard Government and will work

again. In the meantime the

Greens have declared both

major parties response to the

two boat loads as a dismal display of leadership.

Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd has outlined the steps he

believes the world needs to

take to avoid a global

recession. Addressing the UN general assembly, Mr Rudd

called on member nations to

embrace market reform and

free trade. He also

pointedly urged China to

increase the value of its

currency. But on the hot

topic of the UN, emotion in

support of Palestinian

statehood the Foreign Minister didn't commit

Australia either way. The

world's major economies are

pledging to take strong

action to restore financial

stability and calm financial

markets. Amid re news fears

global economy is headed --

renewed fears the global

economy is headed towards a

recession, the G 120 issued a

statement -- the G-20 issued

a statement saying they are

committed to a response

coming from the European debt crisis and weak economic

growth in the US. The man

accused of strapping a fake

collar bomb to the neck of an

Australian school girl is

journeying back to Australia.

Paul Douglas Peters is on a Qantas flight from Los

Angeles, he is due to arrive

tomorrow to face charging of

terrorising Maddie Pulver at

her home last month. He is

facing charges including kidnapping and break and

enter. The Broncos are

confident they can qualify

for the grand final without Darren Lockyer tonight. Mat

Gillett is playing

five-eighth and the coach

says he could be the game changer. The weather

tomorrow. Cooler showers in

the east. Dry and warm in the


Welcome back. This is the

Contrarians, this is the

chance where we allow someone

who is watching the program

to spit the dummy and we have

an additional panelist now.

Greg O'Mahoney has joined us,

what do you want to spit the

dummy about? If I have to

spit the dummy something it will be we have a Prime Minister appealing to Tony

Abbott to listen to none

other than the former Immigration Minister, Mr

Ruddock, and ta take heed of

his advice in relation to

immigration. This is the same

lady for 10 years carried on

like Mr Ruddock was Pol Pot

and the idea she is now

asking Tony Abbott to dig

deep and listen and take

counsel from the very man who

was ubt the subject of so

many attacks from her for so

long. That's not what she is

doing. She is trying to guilt

Phillip Ruddock into not voting with the Coalition?

Drawing on his one time

smaller Liberal tendencies?

That he promoted offshore processing again and again and again and he's

essentially been after that and that's what she's trying

to do. Celebrating what he

stands for which is an

extraordinary about face. She

is trying to guilt him and

it's not going to work. The

whole thing is a tragic

debate. At the end of the day

the Labor Party sold out its

left flank after being

advised to stop pandering to

the left. But one thing they

should say if they want to

keep the heart of compassion

elements they turn around and

change directions and on all

the other front s where they

could let the flank go they

don't do so. They are continuing to be unpopular. In the western suburb seats that Labor needs

to win those people out there

do believe in offshore

processing Do they, do they

really need to forgo all the

other seats that they are

going to probably lose to Greens possibly depending on

preference flows by the

Coalition just to try to pick

up an extra few seats in the

west of Sydney? I don't

think they estimated the

backlash against it. I don't

think it is about seats, it's

about krediblity. The Labor

Party on this issue has been

a tragedy trap. The PNG solution, the East Timor solution, now this solution

getting vetoed if they had

any credibility they might

get away with trying to bring Abbott to the table but they

don't. But I just think it is

extraordinary after three

failed policies to blame the

Opposition Leader for the

progress of this area. Of the

two evils Nauru is worse I

think because it won't work

now. You know, anyone, On

what basis? On the number of

boats? Every people-smuggler

now knows Nauru is pretty

much a guaranteed enindustry

to Australia so it will keep the boats -- entry to

Australia, so it will keep the boats coming which means

people will die. You have got

to add temporary protection

visa into into the mix. I

believe in on shore processing bottom line but in

terms of the race to the

bottom debate between people

going to Malaysia and forging

for feed on the streets versus the option of people

going into an Australian run

centre in Nauru. But they die

before they get there on the

boats and that's the difference. We have been

having onshore processing for

the past 18 months is it and

it is seen 300 people die at

sea. 2 40 boats coming. You

have got a problem for that

with that reason? This they

don't come to Australia they

go somewhere else. They don't

go you beauty I can't go to Australialy live happily at

home. They crash into the

seas on Christmas Island. That's... That's a political

reality but the argument

people are trying to take the

high moral ground and

suggesting boats crashing at

sea we stop that when we stop

the Bowen boat s no you --

-- the boats. You push it to

another country. As they

continue to be riped and

beaten and malnourished in refugee centres rather than

try to turn up to a country

to seek refugee. It's a joke. You can't solve every

problem of the world. The

annual can't solve every prob

-- aunt can't solve every

problem that leads to refugee

leaving countries. It can

solve the problem of

Australian -- refugees dying

in Australian waters. The only rather than that boat

crashed on Christmas Island

is because there wasn't

better systems in place to

ensure a level of protection to avoid ta that kind of

thing happening. We are happy to spend hundreds of millions of dollar arguing over centres and deporting people

to Malaysia or reopening

Nauru what about spending a

miniscule percentage of that

for better protection if

that's the real worry. But it

is not. They don't care about

that. They only care about it

when they can use it as an argument subsequently in

debate I think. Also just

upping the resources, the

processing places overseas,

so the queues - and I think, financially it will be a smaller amount than what they are spending on the

solutions. Well, look,

that's the other thing. There

was a good study done by

Jessica Irvine in terms of

the cost of asylum seekers in

terms of the protective

approach that both sides are

trying to adopt. Versing how

that money could be spent on

resettlement and so forth and

you go back to the PJO

'rourke argument that is

anyone is prepared to put

themselves in harm on a leaky

vessel to get to Australia is

a kind of person to make a

bit of a go at it in this country once they got

here. We are happy to take

part in global operations

against really nefarious

regimes on the basis there is

no place for them on the

planet but when we are

receiving the very victims of

those regimes I think it's a

little bit hypercritical to

say there is no room at the

in, we will send you to one

of the few countries in the

region that has a shocking

track record in relation to

human rights. It doesn't

follow because people die at

sea we should send kids to

Malaysia un accompanied. I

know that Malaysia is not a signatory to the UN convention but the minister and government are arguing

they have all sorts of deals

in place with Malaysia, that

move away from the issues of

caning and so forth. I don't

believe that for a second.

There are a number of human rights groups that rank

country s from 1 to 180.

Malaysia comes to 164 to 170.

It is like saying we have

assurances of the government

of sauda Arabia it will

respect women. It is a

joke. Where does that leave

all the agreements as well. Why not for Gillard to

move on. She is playing Tony

Abbott's game at the moment

in giving long conferences

where she blames him for the refugee problem in continue

to talk about it and

potentially bring the

legislation back to

parliament. Why not move on

and talk about the other things. Move on to another issue. Let the onshore

processing just happen as it

was before and get some other

legislation into parliament now. Talk about Dale Thomas

again. -- About talk about

Craig Tomson again. She kept saying the alternative Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

If I was advising her do not

use the worlds Prime Minister

and Tony Abbott in the same

sentence because people start

hearing it and what she is

trying to do is scare people.

Why don't you advise her. If

she needs to call me she

can. You will do a great

job. It will be a tough

job. Do you think it is rich

that she is implaming the two

boats that have -- blames the

two boats that have arrived

today on Tony Abbott. 2 40

boats I read tonight have

arrived since 2007ment all of

a sudden the last two are the fault of the Opposition

Leader. You have got to hear this Tweet from this twit.

This individual has enned his

tweet by calling me an idiot.

Peter processing illegal

invade er, so here is a clear

humanitarian onshore, we will

have 50 million turn up you

idiot. Speaking of? I think

he is off the medication. I

don't know what's going on

there. But, the language of

invaders may be he is playing

computer games. In regard to

Gillard blaming Abbott for

these two boats today.

Presumably who she really

wants to blame is Kevin Rudd

but she can't do that. It was

he who shut down the Nauru

solution. That brings us to

what on earth is Kevin Rudd

going to do about boats and

the carbon tax if he becomes

Prime Minister again. He will

have to keep the carbon tax.

Look, I think it's a spurious

argument he is not going to

be, but if he was he has to

keep the carbon tax. He can't get rid of another carbon

tax. Clare's point though

proudly speaking, Rudd's

pitch on -- broadly speaking, Rudd's pitch on the day

before he was rolled that evening was to the Labor left

and that was because that was

the only support he was

receiving at that point in

time so he found himself in a

situation where he was saying

I will not roll over on

asylum seekers and so Fox

Sports and these are pictures

that in the -- and -- and so

on. And these are picture

that's are hard to sell in

the community clearly because

it does leave Labor in an awful situation. Labor will

need to have some sort of

excuse to go to Rudd. A

policy excuse to go to Rudd.

They can't public publicly

say we decided that we don't

actually like Julia very much

anymore, we have gone off

her. We need real leadership.

We need real inclusive

leadership and decided to

turn to Kevin. That will be a pretty unusual statement of

fact. Do you think Kevin

Rudd is doing the number? I

am sure he has people doing

the numbers on his behalf is my understanding but he will be more careful than that

because the last thing he

needs to is to do it too much

himself but he is probably

speaking it to the odd

supporter but I don't think

there is a lot of support for a return there at the minute.

I think the key for anyone

that wants Rudd back is to

build a consensus to make it

happen. If this is a messy

fight then he comes in even

more crippled than he already

would be given where the

politics is at at the

moment. Bill shorten is

sitting there quietly waiting

and waiting. He has got to

get himself cabinet -- get

himself into cabinet before

he get the leadership. Who

wants to be leader of the Labor Party in opposition?

They lost two leaders before

they got to Tony Abbott. We

will take a commercial break. When we come back we will

continue to talk about the carbon tax. Something we

thought we will be talking

more about when it was

introduced into the

parliament but it hasn't been that way. Back in a moment.

Welcome back. I am joined

on the far end of the panel

by Dr Greg O'Mahoney, next to him Dee Madigan and closest

to me Claire Harvey. We have

had a tweet come in and we will talk about the carbon

tax now. This tweet says PVO

please ask Dee Madigan why the Liberals could never roll

back the carbon tax. Which I

think you were saying

earlier. They will go to the

election on just that point.

I thinks that that's a very

good point. They have to roll

it back because that's the

issue. They will have to go to the election saying they

will roll it back but they

have to convince the public

to change things. They will

be used to the carbon tax by

then. They won't like t people never like a new

tax. Think about the GST. It

came in and people didn't

think it was that bad. And

people start to think I am

getting this extra money. You

will take it away from

us. After the carbon tax

after the fixed price period

it becomes a trading

commodity which is a world of

an unknown possibilities

which a Liberal Prime

Minister will have to find

him or her having to explain

to the public. The reality is

I think that even though

there is this idea that

people got used to the GST,

the issue with Beazley are

rolling back the GST was how

was he going to do it. I

think it was always popular

but then Tampa happened.

September 11 happened. John

Howard had a raft of adjustments because he had the cash to do it. Labor doesn't have the cash to do

all of those things, it won't

have Tampa, if it does people

will discredit it and sent 11

happened and people got

worried and looked to incumbents they will look to

the government and say it time to change the

government. We don't know if

they can handle it. Wouldn't

it be the case he is guilty of doing exactly the same

thing. He has to unwind it if

he gets in but I think it is

a big sell. You will I sag

ing actually the extra couple

of hundred buck you be are

getting it you will no longer get. All skoois and Australian political

journeyists will be jobless

if Liberals get in. --

journalists if Liberals get

in. And they wrote no-one to

bhing about. Somehow or other the accusation is biassed

against the Opposition. You

couldn't accuse this show of

celebrating the Opposition's

migration policy. I don't

think any of the policies.

What are their policies?

Interesting. Tweet that

just came in then I listened

to Rudd today in New York, I

remember why his ratings

fell, full of it. That is the

issue. That is the issue with

Kevin Rudd, people remember why they didn't like

him. There is a question for

his own job satisfaction I

think. People around Rudd say

he has a great sense of

unfinished bn, that there is

a whole lot of -- business.

There is a whole lot of stuff

he didn't get to do in his

first crack at it and he

wants to come back. What that

might be who knows but

whatever it is it will be a

hell of a lot less fun standing around arguing with

Tony Abbott and Scott Morris

son than it would be talking

about the Horn of Africa at

the uven and going out to

dinner with Therese. He made

extraordinary comment s today

in the speech. He said no

child in Africa should be

denied the right to life. You

could never accuse him of

sfoekusing on the micros. --

-- accuse him of focusing on

the micros. He is a big

picture man he loves talking

to the years 2020 and 20 40

as well. 20 40 he may still

be in power during that period. One of his problem when he was Prime Minister

was he refused to deal with

macro and he was so micro managing everything that it drove everyone elsz who had

to work with him mad. He

wasn't the most popular boss

that's for sure. The fellow

on twitter who said there

will be 50 million invaders

here, he said when they arrive they will be better

dressed than I am. If you

look at this bloke's photo

you won't see that is

necessarily a ringing

endorsement about asylum

seekers looking like they are on fire. Back to the carbon

tax. It is a serious policy

ish issue they want to debate

it but they have also said

they will guillotine debate come November and ram it

through. Is that enough

debate for such a changing

piece of legislation and even

if it is not can the

Opposition say much about it given they did exactly the same thing when they did

WorkChoices. The Opposition

have very little credibility

criticising it. It is once in

a generation tax reform so

clearly more debate should

happen. The question is this

is the sort of policy that is

hard to prosecutor in times

of plenty. We are now

possibly going into a second

global recession in three or

four year, good luck selling

what is effectively viewed as

a luxury tax in that sort of environment. What does parliamentary debate yield. That's a very good

point. It is for the audience

of news radio at 10 o'clock

at night isn't it. Including

me. Nerds like me. Might find something interest in what

Sophie Mirabella has to

say. Explain to people why they should be watching

parliament. I think it is

appalling. It is incredibly

bore boring and I don't want

them to bother the rest of us

with the carry on. At this

point in time we should say

that Sky does have APAC on

the digital channel. You can

go there and watch unlimited

coverage of the Senate and

House of Representatives.

Clare back to you. It is much

better for watch it on TV. I

think the problem is the

debate in the community is

still whether climate, global

warming is real and that's

the scary thing. You are not

convinced? I am reasonably

convinced about it. And it scares me that there are still a debate happening out

there. That is Labor's great

gift and Kevin Rudd's gift to

the Australian public. That

we had consensus on this to the point where John Howard

was proposing it. That's why

I think more debate about it

to be genuine is a waste of

time. The Gillard government

needs to get some legislation through. And this needs to

get through without wasting a

great deal of time on more

parliamentary debate. Get it

implemented so they can prove

it isn't as bad. After three

years of saying how important

consensus is on the issue it

is the code red reality. It

couldn't be more divisive. The citizen's

assembly we couldn't be going

into this debate into a more

divisive context. It is

unbelievable. It is like the

Republic. There was consensus

on having a Republic.

Australians wanted one. But

then it got destroyed. It is

so easy to destroy true. Because it is based on consensus. That's

the model. We agree with it,

we need to do something about

did but just not this. There

will always be a problem with

something the way we do it.

At some point we have to do

it. We have five minutes on program but we could not get

to the end without discussing

Sophie Mirabella allegedly is

over the top of everything

that we are about to discuss.

It comes from an article in the 'Sydney Morning Herald',

it is off the front, it is

inside on p.7. I really do

want to provide the

opportunity for people to get

a chance to read this. The

headline is... It was also in

'The Australian'. Also in

taub. The Liberal her lover,

thanks for just covering for

the paper I also work

for. The Liberal her lover,

his kids and the will. Dee let's get the ball rolling with you on this one. I don't

know if you have got a law

degree but watch yourself. So

she agriculture allegedly had

a five year -- she allegedly

had a five year affair with a

man who was allegedly 40

years older than her, as you

do and he has now died, he

apparently helped her

financially, allegedly, along

the way. And allegedly funded

her getting into politics. Which surprised me because I

thought she got there on

talent. And now he's died

and he's left it all to her

and her family is not

happy. Allegedly left it all

to her. We are not 100% sure

about that. He had Alzheimers

homers so was he in the right

frame of mind. Whenever

there is a will there is a

relative You are on Sophie's side on this because the relatives are raising

concerns here yet it was

Sophie Mirabella according to

this report that cared for

him in his dying days. The

allegations seem to be there

is perhaps some in proper

motive behind that but it

could be the case she had a

long term relationship with

this guy and was fond of

him. I have no idea what went

on with her love life and

don't have a huge desire to

know. But I don't think

there is any suggestion this

guy was stupid or that he was

tricked by Sophie. There is a

suggestion from the relatives

that he might have not had

his full mental faculties

going at the time that his

final will was made but as

you say, she apparently has

been looking after this

elderly man. She said in her

letter to the son that he could never understand her relationship with his father

and she didn't expect him to.

So I would love to hear her

explain it. For all we know

it was genuine puppy love. I think that the assumption

that because it was a 40 year

age difference it was im

proper, people fall in love

by That's a fair point. What

is wrong with there being a

40 year age difference. I

find it creepy. Apparently he

was very young at heart. Maybe she was very

old. You find the fact he

could be her grandfather

concerning? I am sure, it was two consenting adults they

can do what they want. I

don't want to think about her

love life. It was the

monarchy that brought them together. It gets worse and worse. Heavens boof.

Parliament is reassess -- above. Parliament is

reassessing now. No doubt the debates will be continuing to

be as fiery. But what are we

expecting during the hiatus

period where there won't be

the regular theatre of parliament but nevertheless

the tensions will be

similarly strong. We can

expect to see a lot of Tony

miles offshore. And I think Abbott in Darwin, a couple of

we will see the government

based on today really trying

to turn this on Abbott as a

failure of his that boats are

arriving. They are doing it.

Julia Gillard today in the

press club speech - not in

the two press conferences

that she did that Clare

mentioned, she really sort of

tried to bell the cat on

that. I think every day, the

processing is an issue. It is

a win for Abbott. The people... She needs to bury

it and talk about anything

else. She has got to move on

Abbott wants to be careful. He presumably Tony Abbott's

greatest fear is Kevin Rudd

retaking the leadership. Do

you think? I don't know about that. He is the person

who was responsible fofrp

getting rid of him. What other possible threat is

there to Abbott though?

There isn't a tlut but he

plays politics like a gambler. That's what he

does. They would love Rudd to

come back. The very guy who was deposed because he

presided over dysfunctional government. Really when you

look at the Labor backbench

the only person they probably

wouldn't fear taking over

from Julia Gillard at the

moment is Craig Thomson,

there is the risk that anyone

else could lift the number s

which are so low. It is very

hard to see even with Rudd

hard to see him dominating

for any long period. Thank

you for being here. Thank

you for your company as well.

Tune in to Sunday where we

have got the Immigration

Minister Chris Bowen live in

the studio. Should be an

interesting one. Thanks for Live Captioning by Ai-Media your company.