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Sky News On The Hour 4pm -

View in ParlView

(generated from captions) Australia's news channel. This is Sky News -

Leading this bulletin -

police working to identify

two people killed in a hktd

crash in Sydney. In a

helicopter crash in Sydney.

Reports suggest Australia's asylum seekers swap deal

could be signed as early as

Monday. And wild weather

lashes the east coast of

Australia. Cllt

Good afternoon you are

with News Day on Friday, 22

July. I am Vanessa Trezise.

Also this hour, eurozone

leaders strike a deal to give

Greece a second bail-out.

And in sport - Essendon

skipper Jobe Watson sits out

tomorrow's match in the AFL. Sky weather:

NSW police will use

registration markings on a

helicopter that crashed this

morning killing two people to

help identify the victims.

Emergency crews say the crash

site is strewn with wreckage,

Sky News reporter John

Kerrison was at the scene, he

filed this report. Witnesses

heard the chopper hovering

low over the northern Sydney

superb of Turramurra for some time before it crashed into

the bottom of a 20 m cliff. The helicopter went down in

dense bushland which bordered

suburbance streets. Emergency

the wreckage where they found crews had to abseil down in

two bodies. The two bodies. The chopper

itself as I said it is about

100 m approximately without

going into exact details, but

it looks like 100 m into the bushland and it is found at

the bottom of a 10 to 15 m

cliff face. The scene was

reported as being quite a

difficult area to access,

down a steep cliff. The

helicopter, a Bell 206, broke

into pieces and caught fire

registration plate suggests when it hit the cliff. The

it was owned by a farming

business on the central coast

north of Sydney. It has

taken investigators some time to determine the exact cause

of the crash, one line of

enquiry will be any Sydney's wet wild weather plays any

role. That same rev heavy

rain means it could take many

hours to recover the

bodies. It has been describe

a chopper has been destroyed.

It is a horrific scene for

all crews working

there. Police say they are

taking seriously claims by

witnesses that something flew

off the helicopter before it

crashed. The government's

long-awaited asylum seeker

swap deal with Malaysia is

reportedly ready to be

signed. It's understood the

UN refugee agency has

endorsed the plan but the opposition says it is another

broken promise. Two and a half months since Julia

Gillard announced the plan

with these words - A

regional solution to a

regional problem. Finally a

mal Asian deal is expected

within days. Malaysian deal

is expected within days. A

historic opportunity to undermine the model that's

been sold pullingers and I

believe it is this approach

-- by people smugglers and

this will allow us to solve a

global and regional

problem. They say the

agreement will be signed on Monday for Australia to send

the first 800 boat arrivals

to Malaysia in exchange for

4,000 everyone refugees, more

than 500 have arrived since

the government announcement,

two boats in the last 24

hours. The sad thing is that

those people are in limbo, no

wonder we have got riots on

Christmas Island when this

government's policy is

keeping people in limbo.

Labor closed down the

detention centre in Nauru in

part because it wasn't a

signatory to the UN

convention on refugees.

Malaysia isn't a signatory

either, but reports suggest

the UN refugee agency has

endorsed the plan. Frankly I

can't see how the UNHCR or

anyone else could possibly

sign off on this. There is no practical arrangement that

can be put in place to

situations. And I know that protect people in these

because I have seen it for

myself. The Greens have very

serious concerns about this

arrangement. We are not

convinced that there will be

any bottom line guarantees of

protection for these people. Labor needs the UN

tick of approval because the

UN will be responsible for

resettling and processing

asylum seekers in Malaysia.

It's also crucial to quell

internal party concerns from

the left about un accompanied

children being sent to a

country where asylum seekers

have been caned. Households

will reportedly pay up to

$190 a month for internet

services on the $36 billion national broadband network.

According to 'The Australian'

newspaper Internode packages

will start at $60 a month for

a basic 12 megabit per second

service for a 30 gygabyte for downloads, at the top end

they will charge $190 a month

with 100 megabit s per second. As I understand it

the prices quoted are come

parable to the -- comparable parable to the -- comparable

to the prices quoted by NBN.

vastly different is not Some publicity they are

correct or accurate. The more

we learn about the national

broadband network the more of

a dud deal it seems. This is

a government which is

spending upwards of $50

billion to give Australians a

service that they can't

afford. The internet

provider is reportedly

blaming the high prices on

flaws in the NBN wholesale model and has warned that

regional customers may be

forced to pay more.

Residents in Victoria's east

are mopping up after heavy

rain caused flash flooding

forcing homes to be evacuated

in east Gippsland. Johnson

onhas more. 2 Johnson onhas more. It was a tense night

for residents at Traralgon

but Wei Jiao Bau says the worst -- but the weather

bureau sass the worst has

past. Residents of Traralgon

and nearby Moe and Morwell

spent much of the night

sandbagging the homes.

Evacuation alerts had been

issued to up to 400

properties in the area. It is

believed some properties are

vaek ated aisle -- evacuate

ed while the SES received

around 70 call force help.

The river reached a peak of 0.55 m at 1 o'clock this

morning and since then the

water has been slowly receding. Thankfully the

damage has been minor, the

SES says a handful of homes

suffered minor inundation,

some local roads do remain

closed but most people of people have been able to

return to their homes.

Meanwhile a severe weather

warning has been issued for

the NSW coast with dangerous surf conditions forecast today. The warning covers

Sydney and the central coast

regions. Parts of Sydney are

expected to record the

wettest July in more than 50

year, overnight two men were

rescued by boat after their

car was swept off the road.

Leaders of the eurozone

countries have struck a deal

to give Greece a second bail-out. News which has boosted stock markets around

the world. The deal worth

around $109 bill -- -- 109

billion Euros will rouse

interest rates on Greece's

debts and allow the country

more time to pay the money

back. They arrived for what

was billed as the show down

to save the Euro but after 10

hours of debate is the

agreement enough to pacify

the blood-thrifty bond market

as they emerged lead

Europe's leaders appeared

confident the headlines

announcement of billions of

Euros in new loans will offer

Greece the lifeline it needs

to avoid financial oblivion

and stabilise the

increasingly shaky single

currency. I am glad to

announce we found a common

response to the crisis

situation. Our meeting was

focused and European leaders

defending the financial stability of stability of the Euro

area. So what has been

agreed? The European Union

and International Monetary

Fund will cover Greece's

financing black hole with an

estimated 109 billion Euros.

They have pledged to lower the interest rates Greece

faces on its debts making

repayments cheaper. More time

to pay back the cash of

between 15 and 30 years is

also on offer. And the

financial sector has also

agreed to help its

contribution as much as 37

billion Euros. The agreement

will also see a reduced rate

of interest for Portugal and

Ireland. Two more European

countries serve indicating

und -- suffocating under

mountains of debt. Throughout

the day the markets reacted favourably, even before the

conclusion, the rally may be because finally there because finally there were

signs of agreement between

the eurozone's biggest

players France and Germany

after months of dithering and

bickering. A searing heatwave

blanketing most of the US has

killed at least 22 people

this week. Temperatures have

topped a scorching 38 degrees

in some parts, and weather

forecasters say it could last

for weeks. In this hospital

in Boston a near record

number of patients in the ER

today. Most complain of diz

unionness, weakness and fat

ul and e -- fatigue and the

heat will be playing a role. Infrastructure is

taking a beating too. Heat so

intense it bent these rail

lines as if they were made of

rubber cracked these building

foundations and closed the

Crown of the statutory of

liberty. And it's not just

blistering during the day.

Nearly 100 cities set records

for high temperatures

overnight this month and it's

effecting the sleep of

millions. To see just how

that works we went to the

Jefferson sleep disorder

centre. I had my vitals

taken. 98.1. And went outside

to cook. 134 degrees, I'm sweating, let's go back

in. 98.4. I'm fitted with

those electrodes. People when

they are exposed to a lot of

heat. When it is hot outside

they tend to wake up more and

tend to arouse. When the body sleeps inner core temperatures have to cool

down but if you are

overheated your body won't

cool and your sleep is

disturbed and cooling off

hasn't been easy. Here in

Philadelphia they crushed

into pools by the thousands.

Quick look at sport now and

Essendon coach James Hird

denies the absence of captain

Jobe Watson will hurt them

against Carlton in the AFL

tomorrow night. He will miss

the match after pulling up

sore with a hamstring injury

at training. He actually

ran flat out Wednesday,

trained pretty much fully

Wednesday and just didn't

feel quite right. So I

wouldn't even say a setback.

He is now focused on being

fully fit for next week's

game against Collingwood. The

Pies welcome back Brent

Mckafer with tomorrow night's

clash with the Suns. For a

mental side of things I have

come back a lot fresher and more focused and determined

to get back into it. With a

benefits from it, a few other boys have stated will come

later on in the year. The

Pies departed for the Gold Coast this morning.

Tomorrow's forecast now:

That is the latest from the

Sky News centre for now. The

Contrarians with Peter van Onselen is next.

Hello welcome to the

O'Connor I am Peter van

Onselen this is the only show

on Sky or Jane where else anywhere else we involve you

the viewer and let you spit

the dummy live on air.

someone that's been accused

of spitting the dummy is Malcolm Turnbull the former

Liberal leader, every time he

opens his mouth and offering

a fairly sane and cogent view on climate change action he

gets shouted down, by people

in the media suggesting that

he is breaking ranks. Now

Tony Abbott has come out

today and said that Malcolm Turnbull has been on message.

He doesn't have a problem

with what he said. That is the reality of what Turnbull

is doing here but the problem

isn't that he is off message

or that he is somehow

spitting the dummy, the issue

is that the Liberal Party's

climate policy is a bit of a

sham. On the one hand what

Tony Abbott is doing is he is

trying to hold together

climate change sceptic the but on the other hand he is twrieing to suck to the other

side of politics by

maintaining the 5% emissions

cut target by 2020 which he doesn't even really strongly

believe in. He has come out and ridiculed the 5% target

in the context of discussing government policy, forgetting

of course all the time that

it is his policy as well.

What we really need from the

opposition is more clarity on

exactly what they think of

climate change. If they think

it's a joke, if they think

it's crap, so-called, don't

spend billions of dollars

going on it going forward. If

they think it is real and

something they want to

seriously aim for a 5% target

get best costings on direct

action and stop ridiculing the nature of that target

which indeed is your policy

as well if you are in the

Coalition join us for the

first time, former Labor

adviser Cassandra Wilkinson, Chris Kenny from 'The

Australian' newspaper. And

Clare Harvey from the skoelt

Sunday telegraph'. What I'm talking about with Malcolm

Turnbull he has come out and

talked about in some quarters

as deifying Liberal positioning but Tony Abbott

says he hasn't got a problem

with T what's your view? I'm

starting to think that the

carbon tax is the only reason

I will vote for Julia Gillard

at the moment. And I think

the fact that Malcolm

continues - You are almost

solo on that I would have

thought at the moment. The

fact is Labor is heading for

a smashing because #k3w5678

when carbon tax is the only

-- is the only thing Labor is

getting absolutely right,

although the politics is a

mess. I wouldn't say you are

getting it absolutely right.

Chris I know you wouldn't. I

would say compared to the

direct action scheme of the

Coalition at least there is

clarity. Whether you agree or disagree. Why someone is

focused on the government's policy when this is a

two-horse race and the

Coalition policies is all

over the place. I wouldn't

agree with your assumption,

the reason the focus is on

the government's policy is

because they are the government. Only just

though. A minority government Tony Abbott wants

an early election, we are not

even sure they will get this

thing legislated. Abbott is

trying to stop it. Be

realistic they are the

government and they are

planning to introduce a new

tax so the of course the

focus is going to be on them

but when you mock the 5%

target of course it applies

equally to both sides. If you

don't think that 5% can

really change the climate of

the globe then why spend the

money to get rid of that 5%?

Equally, then why... But it

is Abbott that is con

condemns the 5% target in the

context of India and China

yet he is the one of a policy

of 5% cut by 2020, not me. He

is committed to it, both

sides have politics have been

committed to that. Why? Because both sides

of politics committed to the

5% target internationally

before these people were even

leaders. They are long held positions and it is Australia's international

commitment I suppose to the

post Kyoto world, so none of them are going to back away

from that. You and I both know Tony Abbott doesn't

really believe in a 5% cut.

Clare this is the yiesh you,

he is trying -- issue, he is

trying to hold in the Allan

Jones that don't believe in this. Frankly I have more

sympathy for that this day, I

start to wonder whether

action on climate change

worth it, whether we spend

the money on prepaying for it The Question presents

itself. If doesn't believe

climate change is really or

the 5 % is necessary why wouldn't he say so and

Malcolm Turnbull identified

that in his speech, halfway through the speech he made

last night. He said that the

problem plem when you encourage climate change

sceptics is that when the Liberal Party gets into

government and starts making

cuts, and taking direct

action those people will be

just as voiciverous in

criticising the Liberals and

feel betrayed. Why not dump

the policy. He couldn't -

the consensus has been so

destroyed on climate change

and the necessity of action,

that I can't see why - Presumably he won't dump it

because he thinks I'm on a

winner here, because people think that's all they focus

on. You set yourself up for a

total nightmare. He has done

his job too well. He has destroyed carbon tax all

together as a credible issue

to run on. He has now created a constituency who think

carbon is crap. We have

Tweets that come in. Peter

van Onselen about turn bull.

Nice to read a positive Tweet

for a change. It is not

possible to win a two-horse

rate unless you go to an

election. Chris you used to

work for Malcolm Turnbull.

You were his chief of

staff. I was indeed, during

those tumultuous times. You

no e -- now hoe strongly he

feels about pricing carbon. It is no secret, it

is no surprise, he goes out and makes another speech last

night, it gets this sort of

reaction. I don't think it

has a great impact on the political debate because

everybody whether it is Labor

sympathisers, or Liberal,

they know where Malcolm

Turnbull stands. I think from

his point of view it is obviously not doing him much

good in terms of how his colleagues will think about

him and his progress through

the party. And it's an unwanted distraction for Tony

Abbott absolutely. But you

call it... Maybe it is good

for the Liberal Party to be

able to say now as John

Howard always used to say, we

are a broad church. We have a

diversity of opinions. If he

was in the Labor Party he

would not be tolerated

decents from policy like this

and you I can tell you there

are plenty of people in the

Labor Party even members of

cabinet who think a carbon

tax ask crap but if they said

that they will be sacked from

the party. Maybe Joe Hockey

was right. Maybe we need a

conscience vote on this

issue. That was the sort of

what seemingly was a ridiculous notion he put

forward when running for the

leadership. In a sense it

quashed his leadership. You

laugh now. If you look at the

polls I think we know where

the conscience of the Australian people is on this

at the moment. But then, I

think a lot of the polls is

dick dated by -- dictated by

Julia Gillard saying one

thing before the election and

another after. She could have

been talking about any policy

and that would have been the rereaction from the

community. That is her

political fodder. It doesn't necessarily follow in the

poll because why there is a slippage in support for

climate change, I think

people are in favour of it

they don't like the details

of it when they get down to

the nitty-gritty. It is like

the Republic. Probably every

issue there is a time to act

and if you miss that window

it's gone for a generation. Like a time to act was during the drought

when everyone thought the droupgt was because of

climate change. Now have you

got to feel some sympathy for Julia Gillard. She is out

there trying to talk up the threat of global warming and

we have the coldest winter,

dams are full. Cassandra you

are a former Labor adviser

and Chris's point in a sense,

you reap what you sew. The

Labor Party for years under

Kevin Rudd when it was

dominating in the polls, when

people like Paul C and Chris

were trying to make a fist of it in the Liberal Party.

Kevin Rudd would make a lot

out of the drought and so

forth just like you will be looking at the stock market

price of BHP as though that said something about the

nature of the mining tax. Now it's the other way around

with some of the data comes

out about the nature of it

the climate. That's what

Labor gets for distorting the

issue in its favour. It has

now got it against

it. Reaping what you sew is exactly what the Liberal

Party is about to do. Labor

made a shocking mistake,

continuing to make it now, of

going after Greens territory,

too hard and getting dragged

to the left. At the moment

the Liberal Party is making

an almost exact mirror

opposite mistake of walking

away from that kind of constituency, Malcolm Turnbull is very popular because he is right about

most things. And if Tony

Abbott's happy to aislen ate

his entire

constituency. Funny Labor

telling us how wonderful

Malcolm Turnbull is. He is a

proper Liberal that's why

lots of people like him. If

Tony Abbott is happy to see

those kind of Liberals go

Green, good luck to you, we

have been there and it is a

disaster. Peter said he shouldn't be sticking with

the 5% target. And I think

that's the argument and

that's the sensible argument

from the Liberal Party for still having the direct

action plan and getting that

targeted down to 5% because

the idea is to do something.

Get started. Direct action is

garbage. Rather than not do anything. The solar bonus

scheme, that's what it

is. Direct action is a

joke. 5%, most objective

analysts would say you can

get to the 5% target with

direct action. But yes, if

Australia commits to 10%,

15%, 20% targets, further down the track, direct action

is not going to cut it. But

even getting to the 5% target on direct action you have got to look at the detail of the policy. They are talking

about buying credits here in

Australia and they are

pricing them at about a third

of what the very people that

would be selling them say

they will be prepare ed to

sell them for. So in other

words their costings are way,

way off. Sh But, you know, I

think both sides of politics

are stuck out with this and we will find more out about

this on the weekend with more

treasury modelling coming out

because Julia Gillard and the

Labor government's model

talks about the carbon price

in 2020 and there ray lot of

economists who say that is

grossly under valued as well.

So just what we will be

paying per tonne for carbon abatement in 2020 is really

anybody's guess. You know

what I would like to know is

why did Julia Gillard ever

admit that she told a lie.

You know, you can have your

own view about whether she

lied or not. It was a political disaster to admit

it was a lie. Couldn't she have blustered through as say a John Howard would have done

by saying this is a levy or a fixed price period leading to

an ETS? She has not admitted

she told a lie and why would

she? Because she has in a sense. Called it a carbon

tax. She has called it a tax

and I agree with you on day

one she should not have

conceded the ground this is a

tax. She could have said this

is a ETS with a fixed price

for a few years and there

would have been - the word

tax would have been thrown at

her she could have let people

play those semantics. We

would have written stories

saying it is an outrageous

lie and it would be gone by

now. A terrible political

mistake and I said that on

the day she said that. I

thought there was no need to

call it a tax. She was wedged

either way though wasn't she.

I agree that was the lesser

of evils for her to go down

the path of saying it is an

ETS with a fixed price

leading up to it but if she

had done that the inevitable

question would have been why

did you knife Kevin Rudd when

that is what he wanted and

you prevented that. Frmentsd But that's not as

bad as the direct flip. We have had a Tweet coming in

turn bull's approval rating

was 22% as leader, yes we all

loved him. Not quite. We have one Cassandra claims Labor has been dragged to the left

by the Greens, what about

border protection policy?

Well nice segue, it is in the

headlines today, there is a

suggestion the Malaysia

solution will be signed next week. What about that issue? I said at the beginning carbon is probably

the only reason I will vote

Labor at the coming election

whenever it happens. Our

border control policy is a

mess at the moment. But I

mean, the fact is broadly

speaking Labor has been

dragged across towards the

Greens agenda. We are having

a carbon tax that no-one

wanted before the election,

you know, Bob Brown's agenda

on even on media regulation

this week is getting all

kinds of attention it ought

not to simply because we are

in this minority government

situation. Hold that

thought. We will come back

after a break. Quickly a

Tweet came in saying please

Mr Murdoch send Wendy De in,

g over, Peter van Onselen

needs a whack in the head.

Who pays this moron. We will be back to continue

discussing the so-called

Malaysia solution. This is

The Contrarians.

Welcome back. Continue with

the panel in a moment but

first let's take a look at

today's news headlines.

The recovery of the

bodies of two men killed in a

helicopter crash in Sydney's

north has been suspended due

to bad weather. Rescue crews

found the burning wreckage of

the chopper at the bottom of

a 10 m cliff at Turramurra

this morning. The crash site

has been described as

horrific. Police have

confirmed the identity of one

of the crash victims, a

65-year-old man from Wyee.

The other victim is yet to be

officially identified. The government's long-awaited

asylum seeker swap deal with

Malaysia is reportedly ready

to be signed. Reports suggest

the agreement will be signed

on Monday, for Australia to

send the first 800 boetsd

a#r50i8s to Malaysia -- boat

arrival s to Malaysia in

exchange for 4,000 genuine

refugee, it is understood the

UN refugee agency has

endorsed the plan but the opposition says it's another

broken promise. Households

are reportedly going to pay

up to $190 a month for

internet services on the $36 billion national broadband

network. According to 'The Australian' newspaper, Internode packages will start

at $60 a month for the basic 12 megabit per second service

and charged $190 per month

for 100 megabits per second.

The high prices are blamed on

flaws in the NBN wholesale

model. Residents in

Victoria's east are mopping

up after heavy rain caused flash flooding, forcing homes

to be evacuated in east Gippsland. Meanwhile a severe

weather warning has been

issued for the NSW coast,

with dangerous surf

conditions forecast. The

warning covers Sydney and the

central coast regions. Parts

of Sydney are expected to

record the wettest July in

more than 50 years. Leaders

of the eurozone countries

have struck a deal to give

Greece a second bail-out,

news which has boosted stock

markets around the world. The

deal worth around 109 billion

year owes will reduce the

interest rate on Greece's

debt allowing the country

more time to pay the money

back. Banks and other

investors will contribute

around 50 billion Euros to

the rescue package. In sport Wallabies fly-half Quade

Cooper is expected to play against South Africa in

Sydney tomorrow night despite

missing the side's final

training run with illness

today. The Wallabies were out

and about plugging a sponsor

last night, and their skip er

admits the series is the perfect build-up to the World

Cup in New Zealand. Tomorrow's forecast:

This is a segment where

we normally let you the

viewer spit the dummy but

it's my turn to spit the

dummy back at you. Every time

each week we have The Contrarians, I receive a

plethora of emails and I do

my best to read out some of

them. Half the emails are

accusing me of being a rab id lefty, the other half

accusing me of being a crazy

right winger and Robert then

says pull your head in you

lefty red neck. On top of

that Mary sends in an email

saying, it is you not Tony

Abbott who is being

disingenuous. This is how I am, you know it is compulsory

for a leading politician in

Australia to pretend that

global warming is real. You

all know it is not permissible to question the

science. So Tony Abbott is

being real and I'm being a

phony because he has been a

phony and I'm being real? In

is a joke, seriously. You are

too thin skinned, honestly. Should never read

your own press. I will start

readinget mails about Chris

Kenny. Start sending what you

think about Chris in detail

and we will get you on the

show next week to spit the

dummy about him. I'm looking

for any lefties out there

that don't like the sound of

Chris' voice, we will get you

into a Sky News studio to

tell us what you think of

him. Before the break we were

talking about the Malaysian

solution, so-called. Cassandra you were saying

that is a reason not to vote

Labor at the next election.

Why are they doing this? Is

this simply trying to deal

with the damage control situation in a centre ground? Yes, because I think

it is clearly the case that

there is a broad concern in

the Australian community that

illegal migration is a

significant concern and she

had to have a strategy to

address it and at that point

it was too late to basically

admit what we should do is have more efficient

processing here and not be

detaining people with such a

long period of time for no

other reason than it is incredibly expensive to

depain people any longer than

what we need to cha is what

we do now. Your problem is it

is too tough? It is not tough

or weak, it is trying to come

up with a solution that is overly complicated because

the simple answer, which is just to process people quickly and have them in the community, which is the way

we used to do it, was reasonably effective and

there was certainly no

security problem when is we

used to do it that way. The

insistence on mandatory

deterrence is quite new and

unnecessary but no-one has

the guts to undo it. It was brought in by the Labor Party

in about 1991. Exactly, of

course. It's a Labor mistake

and I'm just saying that the

answer is to undo mandatory detention not to have an argument about which island

to put it on. But hasn't the

past few years shown the only

way to slow boat arrivals is

either to process people off

shore or to have an unbelievably awful disaster like the Christmas Island boat crash just before

Christmas, I mean that has

deterred boat arrivals, it is

awful to say. The only way to

deter boat arrivals is from

countries which people flee

get their act total and not be places that terrorise

citizen s and that's not

something we have a great

deal of control or domestic

policy. If we wait to we we

resolve the situation in

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq,

Burma or Sri Lanka we will be waiting a long time and will

have a hell of a lot of people coming in and risking

lives to get here. So what we

should be doing... It is not

to our benefit they come that

way. It is a blessing to

Australia that we are an

immigrant nation, America

became a... This isn't us

about us being a immigrant

nation, this is about whether

or not people - on Chris's

side of the argumentment

getting in leaky boats which

is dangerous. It is about jamming the door behind you

once you get here. We are all

lucky enough to be here. No

it's not. Australia still has

a very, very generous by any

standard... No we don't

actually. That's one of the

main myths in this. We

continue to be a generous

immigrant nation and the only way to protect that is to

make sure we have orderly

migration and not outsource

our migration intake to

people smugglers. I agree

with you on all of those points but it was actually the Christmas Island boat

crash that made me think we

really need to do something

to stop this from happening

again. It was absolutely

appalling. The attempts to

make agreement s with Indonesia about stopping the

flow of boats from the point

of departure wasn't working,

clearly, and at that point it

just seemed like there was no

other way to solve it. Didn't

it? It was fix ed. The

problem was fixed back in

Howard Government days and it

was relaxing... Have you

processing facility in Indonesia. Actually process

people more effectively in

the refugee camps where they

are seeking entrance here. I

don't think the Indonesians

want to encourage more arrivals from agriculture or

Pakistan. No, no -- It is not

Indonesia's problem or Malaysia's problem or pvrng's

problem. It is Australia's problem. It did is actually everyone's problem. It is not. They see it as Australia's problem and

that's why we can't get cooperation with them to fix

it because they know these

people want to get to Australia. Otherwise they

would stay in Indonesia. The

bulk of the world's refugees do not want to get to Australia actually. We are

not among the most desirable destinations, they want to

get to Canada and the US and

Europe. Only a small

catchment area of the world comes here. That's a

nonsense, we have quite a

small catchment of the world's total refugee

population, we have a massive

country and aside from the environmental nonsense we

have plenty of capacity to

grow. We could become a giant

large populous and great

nation. I agree... Caption

and rathis Tweet. Bowen you

have let Australia down. The

deal stinks, Malaysia doesn't

even respect basic human

rights of its own citizens.

An email came in from Lauren,

saying I am an Oz of Aussie live anything New Zealand and

I love your show. I do not

want to see anyone coming on

and spitting the dummy at

Chris Kenny. He makes sense,

Chris would have eaten them

for breakfast anyway. In

contrast, Steven says Chris

looks very un there

comfortable with a known

lefty on either side to him. Thank God they are there to

even up the debate. It is

great to see for the first

time I have been on The

Contrarians where we have

gender equality too. I have been working towards that for

a long while. You have been a advocate of affirmative

action. You like that as a

policy? In Parliament?

Yes. No, I don't agree with

quotas, It is just... Merit

based. I think I think a

viewer would eat this guy up.

Send the emails in. In New

Zealand actually, I had a

sense of Shardonfreuder last

week when a boat load of Sri

Lankan refugees indicated

they wanted to go to New

Zealand. I lived there for a

few years and had to put up

with everywhere I went being

accused of being a racist

because I was Australian and

because we had boat people

arriving and some Australian

has a problem with that. I

think can you scratch the

surface in any country and

there will be hostility to

boat arrivals if they start

coming. Particularly in New

Zealand where race is a

really hot issue. So I will

be interested to see how it

happens. Will they have more?

I don't know. Has the island

boat crash made people head

New Zealand? It f it has the

conservative government in

New Zealand has made it quite

clear they thinking it is not

a good idea. They are touted

as a more humanitarian an

nation. This boat was up near

Singapore, I think they were

having a lend of people. Of course why wouldn't they want to live in New Zealand,

anyone would but the boats

won't be going to New

Zealand. They can't get that far. The presumably didn't

know how far and how awful a

journey it would be. Let's

move on. I want to talk about

this idea of a media enquiry.

It's been splash add cross

the front page of today's Australian. Cassandra I will

start with you as the former

Labor staffer. What sh I have been told to disclose something. What's the

disclosure? The fact that

Sky is one-theired owned of

Sky -- one-third owned by Rupert Murdoch and we are

part of the media in case you

didn't realise watching up on

service. Cassandra, The

media didn't put all up the

CCTV or didn't put all my medical records on a

database, the media isn't

trying to sensor my internet.

The government is the one

that has its foot on our

throats on privacy, the media

takes a dividend of that and

makes it entertaining and

good luck to the media for

doing it but the fact is all

of the significant intrusions

into private life are being oshgess traited by government

and at the moment there are significant concerns about

the proposed internet filter,

today's decision on adult

video games just shows once

again that the sensorship

debate in this country has

got a long way to go before

we really respect adult

privacy. So is your view that

the government is going too

far here essentially they

should just back off? I think

that the idea of the

government that's been taking

our privacy away being put in

charge of an enquiry to

improve it is absurd and I

think the best thing they can

do is do nothing if they

can't actually make things

freer. They clearly have no

plan to make things freer

because that's not how they

have been behaving. There are

basically two things going on

here. One is that because of

the reprehensible behaviour

that's been uncovered in a tabloid in London, Julia

Gillard who is under pressure

here, has used the

opportunity to try to have a

go Australian media. So

that's a Prime Minister who

is in all sorts of political

strife, trying to lash out

and blame the media secondly

you have her and Stephen

Conroy actually running the

Greens agenda. If you want to

look for the roots of the

media enquiry and new privacy

laws and new media

regulation, look to the

Greens party website, look at

their policy and that's where

this comes from. So once

again Bob Brown is pushing

the Labor Party into adopting

policy which is really off

the main game. Clare hold

fire, I will come straight to

you when we come back. We

will take a break first. We

will stick on on whether a

media enquiry is or isn't

needed in Australia. Back in a moment.

Welcome back. We were

talking before the break

about this idea of a media

enquiry, disclosure,

one-third of one-third of Sky is owned by Rupert Murdoch's

company News Corp, and

equally both Chris and Clare

work for News Ltd newspapers,

Clare, that disclaimer aside, what's your view on this

issue, we have heard Chris

say that this is all about

sucking to the Greens, if

they go ahead that's been

reflected by bab's nation on

Twitter with esh she said if

there is a media enquiry we

know Bob Brown is truly in

charge. What's your view? I

agree, I think it is

ridiculous to assume because

things are going wrong on

fleet street they are going

wrong in any mada. There are

several bodies that oversee

Australian media, including

the press council which

sensational overburned by

criticisms of anything,

specially not privacy. I

think Australian journalists

and Australian media don't

have any anything to fear on

an enquiry on privacy. If a

bunch of backbenchers and

Senators want to call editors

to Canberra to give evidence

about whether they have been

hiring private detectives or

not. Bring it on. I can't see

any one from the backbench

intimidating Chris Mitchell

or my editor or the news

director of Channel Nine. Maybe not but I mean

isn't it the thin end of the

wedge? The splipry slope?

Look, the fact is at the

very least if - and I'm not

the first to say this, even

if you just went back to the

old defamation law s we would

have plenty to fear. The fact

all of us work in the media

and we are all working within

existing limits around

defamation and liable but

also within complaints in

terms of good taste and we

all have licensing conditions over our various businesses

that constrain what we can

say already and I will be

very afraid that an enquiry

like that would go looking

for things to do which

average citizen has had their privacy invaded by anyone

other than government

recently? Those people are celebrities. Databases that

political parties operate are

constantly invading people's

privacy. It is inappropriate. That's is

exactly the sort of thing

they should look into. Why

have a enquiry that can only lead to further media restrictions. I'm agreeing

with you. There is always a

debate about the media and

not least of all some media

criticising other media and

politicians criticising media

and so it should ever be. And

that hopefully keep s people

pretty honest but when you

have got politicians talking

about enquiries and new

regulations a agree, it's a

time to be very worried about

it especially when it is

politicians really under the hammer. When things are going

well for the politicians they aren't talking about shutting

down the media. A fair

point. We need an enquiry

into why there are so many

supportive texts and emails

coming in for Chris Kenny

when I suggest they can

contact the show so they can

spit the dummy. I haven't had

one yet. I come from a very extended big Catholic family

and they are out there

watching at the moment. It

must be the case. Quite

seriously, Cassandra was

talking about this and we are in furious agreement perhaps not realising it, but this is

the thing, the government

does invade privacy on a

regular basis, it constantly

excludes itself from privacy

act provisions, and despite

all of that it is un willing

to look into those elements

of their own practice, yet

suddenly we have the bone

being pointed at the media by

a government that is under

siege by the media, it is

just a bad look apart from

anything else politically for Julia Gillard and the

government. Yes, I think it

makes - it draws attention

attention to the fact

probably that there is an

absence of policy being

driven from Labor's own

heart. And one of the things

that Labor came to government

promising to do in 2007 was to introduce strong whistleblower protection. So what's happened there?

Nothing. Is the answer. I

don't want to sound here we

are in the media, don't krit

noise us, don't have an

enquiry into us, as I say a

debate about that is fine and

politicians of course have the protection of Parliament

to say whatever they like

about us and they have done

that, whereas we of course

are retrained by the laws of

deaf defamation and liable

etc. But the most crucial

point about? Is Julia Gillard is a Prime Minister who is struggling to connect with

the Australian main stream

with what the public want her

to do and want her to talk

about and they don't want her

surely, and my sense is that

people in Australia don't

want her focused on the media

at the moment, they might

want her focused on education

or on health, or on

strengthening the

economy. This is the Labor

strengths yet they are not

talking about. A Tweet coming

in says News Ltd should sue

Julia Gillard not the government nor defamation. You can't defame a corporation, that's one of the things here, only

individual consist sue. We

are not that thin

skinned. There is perhaps

that too but you can defame

corporations all you like at

one sense, they are not in a position to sue for

defamation but I think, I go

back to the politics of it, I

think a government under

siege turning around and

looking to move the debate

into this sphere looks bad

and with the zlamer I work

for 'The Australian' and for

News Ltd newspaper I thought

Gillard coming out there and

positing this idea that there

are serious questions that

need to be asked in Australia

but not positing any serious questions herself despite being repeatedly asked about

it that is a attempt ed slur

by association and it is

unbecoming The other thing about this government which

came to victory on the back

of very strong media support

is it is people who thought

were its friends are

betrayed. They overlooked the

fact there is plenty of positive coverage in the

papers about the government.

My paper for example advocated a vote for Julia

Gillard at the last election.

You never hear anyone from

the government comment about

the screeds of comment in

'The Australian', that is supportive of the carbon

tax. Sh Because Julia got it

right on education, she took

on the Teachers Unions which

even the Liberals had never

managed to do effectively. She introduced performance

pay in teaching and reformed the national education system and she has made some in

roads in health and she has made really terrific inroads

in terms of welfare reform

for which 'The Australian' in

particular has recognised her

and the fact she is not

playing on these these

strength s on welfare,

education and health where

she shoulding caning everyone

and getting backed into a

corner on privacy is ridiculous. I agree exactly what Cassandra said there, if Julia Gillard is looking for

her strengths what she did in education as Education Minister is a good start and

she ought to do more there

and talk about that more as

Prime Minister. But... She

can't now though, the problem

is the die is cast. I was

reading in a newspaper only

three weeks ago by one of the more senior journalists in

the country, that Julia Gillard is perhaps the best

politician in the country.

And that newspaper happened

to be "weekend Australian" so

she gets the good and the bad

from all media. We are almost

out of time but we thought she the best politician in

the country, we thought she

was an excellent Parliamentary performer she

was the heir apparent. She

suffered from the standard

Peter pris imwhich is she has

risen beyond her confidence.

Whether it is fair enough is

another matter. She is a good

poll Polye tition but not a

good sales woman and the

reality is you have to be

both. She is the worst

politician we have had since

Whitlam for sure, Su may be

right. That is at least in the perception stage. My

honest opinion. I hear you

say so. Kevin will be

back. I'm afraid she is

worse than kifrn. She has made Kevin Rudd look good perhaps. Last word from me,

if the government is concerned about poor coverage

in the media the trick is to

do a better job. And then you

are more likely to get better

coverage. We are out of time.

Thank you for your company.

Thanks for watching. Tune in soet Australian agenda' where

we will be joined by bill

shorten as well as the

independent out of Tasmania

Andrew Wilkie and the head of the Transport Workers Union

Tony Sheldon will be joining

us on the program. See you

shortly. Live Captioning by Ai-Media www.ai-media.tv