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Sky News On The Hour 4pm -

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(generated from captions) This is Sky News,

Australia's news channel. Leading this Leading this bulletin Julia Gillard unfazed by an advertising campaign against

the carbon tax. The charges

relate to alleged bribes paid

to public officials in

Indonesia, Malaysia and

Vietnam between 1999 and 2005. Six men charged

following a federal investigation into alleged

foreign bribery. And a NSW

doctor who removed a woman's

and a half years in jail. genitals sentenced to three

and a half years in jail. It

is 4 o'clock in Sydney A 6

o'clock in Auckland. Hello

welcome to News Day on

Friday, 1 July. I am Vanessa

Trezise also this hour,

defence force chief Angus

Houston gives an upbeat

assessment of the war in

Afghanistan, on his final day

in office. And in sport -

all the latest news in the

AFL as the player pay dispute

weather: hits a new level. Sky

This is News Day.

The Prime Minister says

she won't be daunted by scare

tactics aimed at bringing

down her carbon tax. It comes

as industry groups prepare to

launch a new multi-million

dollar advertising came pain

against the government's

policy. Julia Gillard spent

the morning with young mums

from her electorate talking

up the benefits of paid parentalal leave. The scheme

started six months ago but

from today the payments will start flowing through

businesses. You will get a

pay packet, you will feel included in work with the

money coming through from the government. Another big

change on 1 July is in the

Senate with the Greens now

have the balance of power. I

am just delight ed with these

four very intelligent and

energetic new Senator, they

will do this Parliament

proud. Today is the big day

for the Greens. This is the

day when Bob Brown sem entss

his hold over the current his hold over the current government are still government. The Greens and

negotiating the final details

of the carbon tax. With an

announcement expected as soon

as next week. I am feeling

optimistic but that is not a

finalised matter yet. But

it's looking better each

day. I will believe it when I

see it because this is a government which is always government which is always

making promises and very

rarely delivering. Tony

Abbott say s even if a deal

is struck the tax won't be

around for long. I think

there's every chance this tax

will fall over. In the

Parliament and certainly I

think it will fall over at

the next election if it gets

up in the Parliament. Soon

the Coalition's argument

against the carbon tax will

be bolstered by a new multi-million dollar campaign

run by an alliance of business groups.

Organisations like The

minerals Council, the Coal

Association and the Food and

Grocery Council are pooling

resources to spend at least

$10 million on advertising in

a bid to get the tax amended or blocked in the Parliament.

No-one should allow

themselves to be scared or

pedalling misinformation at frightened by people

this stage of the debate. Misinformation or

not, last year's anti-mining

tax ads proved just how effective these sorts of

campaigns can be. And with

the carbon tax already deeply

unpopular it is likely the

new ads will only feed into

the anger being expressed by

some voters. Meanwhile Tony

Abbott has taken a

light-hearted swipe at the quality of Australian

economists. Most of whom

believe a price on carbon is

the most efficient way to

reduce CO2 emissions.

Speaking at a forum on

growth in Melbourne, Mr

Abbott asked the economists

to think again. It may well

be as you say Michael that

most Australian economists think that a carbon tax or an emissions trading scheme is

the way to go, maybe that's a

comment on the quality of our economists rather than on the

merits of the argument.

Defence force chief Angus

Houston has given an upbeat

assessment on the war in

Afghanistan on his final day

in office. He form alley

retires in midnight on

Sunday. In an interview to

mark his departure he has

told Sky News progress is

being made in Afghanistan and

the American forces being

withdrawn this year will

still be there throughout the

current fighting season.

Angus Houston is also played down concerns about China's

growing military power. On

his final day in the office

Angus Houston was optimistic

about the war he will leave

to his successors. He has

dismissed a report from the enter national crisis group

warning stability in

Afghanistan has eroded and

violence has rise be. The

security line -- risen. The

security line of operation

has in fact gone very well.

We are seeing a reduction in the number of violent

incidents as compared to the fighting season last year. The outgoing defence

force chief says the US surge

worried about President has worked. And he's not

Obama's plans to withdraw 10,000 troop this is year.

There might be some small

adjustment in the immediate

future but I think the bulk

of those 10,000 will go out

after the fighting season. And he says Australian forces Australian forces in Oruzgan won't notice any immediate

difference. I don't think

there will be an impact in

Oruzgan. This year, I think

that I have had assurances

that there will not be an

impact in Oruzgan this year.

Reflecting on the war Angus

Houston says it was a mistake

for international forces to

withdraw as many troops as

they did from Afghanistan.

When the focus shifted When the focus shifted to

Iraq. I think you could say

that the Coalition took their

eye off the ball, yes. But

he's confident of success,

which he says will involve

some level of negotiating peace with the

Taliban. Eventually there has

to be a political settlement

so I think the reality is

that at some stage in the

future there will be an

aaccommodation between the

Afghan government and the

Taliban. Closer to home, the

outgoing defence chief played

down concerns raised in a

2009 white paper about

China's military build-up. I'm not worried about China.

I would like to better

understand the military

build-up in China. And I have

expressed that to my

counterpart. He says China

has an awful long way to go

to rival American military

power, and he says that has

been a big benefit in the region. He first rose to

prominence 10 years ago when

he contradicted the Howard

Government during the

children overboard affair. He

publicly corrected the claims asylum seekers had tossed

their kids in the sea. Yes I

was worried about the

consequences and I think when

you go back and revisit, I haven't revisited it for a

long time by the way, when

you revisit some of the

things that were said at the

time yes, I was very

concerned about some of the

things that were said at the

time. And I wondered where it

would all fall out? In the

end he had nothing to fear,

John Howard appointed him

defence force chief and now

six years later he leaves the

job with the respect of both

sides of politics and his

comrades. Parts of me will

miss it. Parts of me I can

almost feel a little bit of

an easing of life as we go

forward. It will be nice to

get on the bicycle or go for a without having to worry

about carrying a mobile phone

and worrying about what that

call might bring. A

two-year operation by Australian Federal Police has

led to a series of arrests in

Victoria over an alleged

foreign bribery scandal. Two

companies, both subsidiaries

of the Reserve Bank have also

been charged with bribing foreign officials in return

for contracts to supply bank

notes. Sky News Melbourne reporter Johns Johns Johns has more.

has more. -- lore Loretta

Johns has more. It is a

scandal that has potential to

damage Australia's international relations, police swooped across

Melbourne arresting six men

charged with bribing foreign

officials. The men charged

were former executives of Securency and Note Printing

Australia and both of those

companies have also been

charged over the bribes

allegedly paid to officials allegedly paid to officials

in Malaysia, Vietnam and

Indonesia between 1999 and

2005. The charges in

Australia are a result of a

protracted and complex AFP investigation which has

already spanned two years and

has involved significant

international partnerships. A

sim ultaneous operation was also carried out this morning

in Malaysia and two people

have been arrested there. It

the people could face 10

years in jail and fines of up

to $1.1 million while the

companies could face fines up

to $330,000 person offence.

Police say the penalties are

hefty for a reason and they

have this message for anyone

who think they can get away

with it. Think again, the penalties are strong, the

government has been very

supportive of our

anti-foreign bribery, they

want this stamped out and we

are here to help them do do it Federal Police expect more

arrest also follow. A doctor who indecently assaulted two patients and removed a

woman's genitals without her consent has been sentenced to a maximum of 3 and a half

years in jail. 60-year-old

doctor Graeme Reeves who

committed the offences while

practising in Bega on the far

coast of NSW will spend a men

mum of two years behind bars.

The judge described his

treatment of women as reprehensible and says he

hasn't shown any contrition

for his gross wrong conduct. Victim Carolyn DeWaegeneire

says she is livid with the

decision after suffering from

the tlauma. This happened -- trauma. This happened five

weeks short of nine years ago, nine years. ago, nine years. My sentence

is for life. I'm an innocent

person. I went into a

hospital by a registered

doctor, who is supported by all the bureaucratic up there

people, you go in, never did

I consider for one second he

was going to do what he did.

Receive was ordered never to

practice medicine again where

it involved contact with


patients. Sydney police of a

luxury home at Dovar Heights

in the city's east following

a possible shooting. Fairfax

radio is reporting the home

belongs to John Ibrahim, police say they are investigating the discovery

of what are thought to be spent ammunition casings

found outside the home this

morning. Fairfax reports two

shots were fired into the

property possibly overnight.

It is thought two people were

asleep inside the home at the

time of the incident but Mr Ibrahim was not at the

property. To sport now and the CEO of Port Adelaide Mark

Hayesman has confirmed his

resignation after three years

in the job. Meanwhile AFL

chief executive Andrew

Demetriou says clubs will cop

the blunt of any defiance by

players. The players have reportedly threatened to cover up the

cover up the AFL logo on

jumper ifs the league refuses

to meet demands but he doesn't think that will

happen. The fact is there

are rules in place if any

logos were covered every

player who covered it there

is a $5,000 per player fine

for the club. So the clubs

will be suffered extensive

fines and I I don't think it

will come to that. If all 22

players from each side

protested during a round the

fines will total $1.76

million. The national weather

forecast now. Wet weather in

the south, heaviest in South Australia showers easing in

the east. That is the latest

from the Sky News centre for

now. Right now on A Park a

climate change panel from the

growth challenge conference

at Melbourne University. It

includes Penny Wong, Andrew includes Penny Wong, Andrew

Robb and Ross Garnaut and

that's on air on Apac. Here

on Sky News national the

Contrarians is next with Peter van Onselen.

This program will be live captioned by Ai-Media

Hello and welcome to the

Contrarians I Osieck os this

is the only show on skoois or

anywhere elsewhere we let you

the viewer come on and spit

the dummy. Tony Abbott he is an attacking economists because he doesn't like the position on the emissions

trading scheme and arguing that market mechanism on a

price on carbon is the best

way to go. He is crawling up

into a small ball when it

comes to policy and refusing

to put it all out there the

reality is that Tony Abbott

and the opposition need to

get real if they see themselves wanting to get into Parliament as the

government not just as the alternative. If they want to

be a genuine alternative

government they need to start putting themselves out there

putting policies out there.

The failure to do so means they could

they could find themselves

quite easily in a position

where they are like Kim

Beazley was in the 2001 e election. I remember for

years you could line up in

Aussies cafe in Parliament

House and the assumption was

if he was there he was the

Prime Minister in waiting.s that the position Tony Abbott

is in now. The Prime

Minister is certainly unpopular but two years between now and the next

election is a long time to be

crawl up into a ball and be

nothing but negative. It is

not good enough. The

Australian public should

deserve more. We should start

demanding Abbott does more to

make himself prime

ministerial. If he doesn't

his numbers will le main as

low will we main and pathetic

as they are now. We are

joined by Chris Kenny, and

also Tony Bramson former Kevin Rudd speech writer,

thank you for your

company. Good to be here. And

lastly noted lefty Rhys Muldoon. Thanks for your

company. Thanks Pete. Chris

let me come to you first, I

want to get your thoughts on

this whole idea of Tony Abbott rolling up into a ball

and particularly in relation

to the issue of emissions trading, he's been out there

today at an economic

conference 'The Australian'

is co-hosting, very critical

of this idea of the of this idea of the economists backing a

mechanism in a carbon tax. Do

you think given he has also

got the idea of a price on

carbon by 2020 leading to a

5% reduction target through

his direction action should

should reget real and

acknowledge both sides of --

get real and acknowledge both

sides are driving towards the

same goal? He said that. I was interested to was interested to hear you

talk about Kim Beazley around Aussies cafe in Parliament

House. Perhaps that's why he

didn't become Prime Minister.

Tony Abbott spruiking this

message day in, day out.

Honly economist backing --

hons sxhifts backing the

market mechanism. They will

like this sort of thing. The

serious question about

climate change and carbon

reduction policy into the

future is yeah if you will

have long-running deep cuts

in carbon emissions of course a market mechanism is the

best way to go. But what Tony

Abbott is talking about now

is really a short term direct

action policy and he knows he

will have to argue against

the tide of sort of economic

opinion on that. And Chris I mean you were obviously Malcolm Turnbull's chief of

staff when he was arguing for the emissions trading scheme

now there is no doubt I think

we would all agree that

Turnbull got the politic of

that wrong as it turns out

but did he get the policy

wrong? At the end of the day

most economists think that an emissions trading scheme and

pricing carbon that way is

the more efficient way to

make cuts to emissions.

What's year view on that? This all depends what

you think about the issue 10,

20 years down the track. If

you believe that the whole

planet will - that is all

the economies in the planet

will end up making long

standing and deep cuts into carbon emissions then

obviously you will see some sort of emissions trading

scheme come into place in all the developed and developing

economies but we are not see

ing that at the moment. The

only place where you have a serious emissions trading

scheme is in Europe and they

are having a great deal of

trouble with that. So the rest of the world is not

moving in this direction, the

rest of the world is not

making deep cuts and it's not going to emissions trading

schemes, so I think in the

interim it is very, very

sensible to be looking at

alternative policies. Troy

and Reece stop frothing at

the mouth off camera what are

your thoughts? I think the reason Tony Abbott doesn't

like economists in this country and the reason he has come out and attacked

economists in the country is

because he can't find an

economist to agree with his

climate change policy. That's

simply the reality of it. I

think climate change is not

only a great environmental challenge it's an economic

challenge and if you can't find an economist in the

country of any substantial

standing in the university or

for a think-tank or for a

working for a bank or some

other kind of financial institution... If he can't

find he will make a fortune

out of emissions trading they

want it, bring it on. Where

is the policy credibility

here. You just had the

National Australia Bank

during the week say they didn't back Tony Abbott's

policy at all but the irony

here is that they have both

got Labor and Coalition both

have the same target. They

both have the same 2020

target and both believe

climate change is real but

no-one of any substance can

back up the Liberal Party's policy. That's really what

this debate is all about

that's why he

that's why he was out there

today taking the economic community, because he can't

find anyone to support his

policy. Rhys can I ask you,

the problem I have got with

the Abbott position or the

Liberal Party position on

this is that they have more credibility in their attacks

on a carbon tax and an

emissions trading scheme if

they didn't have the same

2020 target that the Labor

Party has. So when Tony

Abbott talks about coal-fired power stations beings shut down because of the carbon

tax the carbon tax will do no

more, no less than his direct

action needs to get to a 5%

reduction by 2020. They are

the same thing just different

mechanisms of getting there

and the economists think that

the Abbott scheme is the one

that is far less efficient,

far more costly and he

refuses to answer that

because he rolls up into a

ball and plays opposition

negative poll politics and

it's not good enough. We

should start calling him on

it. That is true and he is at the risk at the moment of

looking very fringe. He has

taken on all the scientists.

He has taken on all of the

economists, I just don't know

how many more fights he can have. Obviously he is

addicted to the politics of

it which is smart politics

and got him 230 a very strong

position in polls but policy

wise it is a debacle. If you

are depending on Lord

Monckton of all people who

people are realising is a

crack pot. Who are you

depending on? He has found

somebody who is not a

scientist who is this kind of

goingle-eyed Lord from

England who claimed to have

worked with Thatcher which

she deny, it is looking very fringe. Margaret Thatcher supported action on climate change. She was one of the

world leaders at the time who actually thought climate

change was real and had to be

dealt with. But the point is

that Peter was talk talking

about if they are going for

the same target, why won't

Tony admit his policy is not

good enough. It's 2008 quite

the other way around. The --

it is actually quite the

other way around. It is a

small target the 5% reduction, Australia will be

able to do that and the point

is if it will be that small

target we are going for why

have this massive

transformation to the economy

and an $11 billion churn of

money into and out of

people's pockets to get the

5%. Can I jump in and ask you

a question, that's a good

point. What I am getting at

is if Abbott was prepared to

say I'm not convinced of the

science and therefore I'm not

convinced in 10 or 20 or 30 years time climate change

isn't going to be proved to

have been crap that is a

great argument but he doesn't

have the guts to do that. He

probably thinks it but he

doesn't have the guts to do

it because he is worried that will upset moderates and

people slightly to the left

within the conservative paradigm of the Liberal Party

so he tries to play both

sides of fence. It's not a

matter of not accepting the science it's a matter of trying to work out what the rest of the world is doing and you can think whatever you like about the science,

but if the rest of the world

is not dramatically reducing

its carbon emissions then

Australia will be foolish to

put ourselves at a serious disadvantage and let me turn

that the other way around.

What the Labor Party is not

saying is that the reason

they think it's worth put

anything this massive new

system, this tax across everything in the economy and churning money through the

system through a big new bureaucracy is because they

don't think it will stop at

5%, it will go 10%, 15%, 20%,

maybe even 50% and that will maybe even 50% and that will

ratchet up the cost of car

bob and... You have got to

be realistic. A couple of things you said which are not

accurate. The first is just look at what's happening in

the UK with the conservative

Cameron government. What they

have said is a 50% emissions reduction target by 2025. If... What are they

doing about it now? What

are they doing about it now?

That's what they have

committed to, that's the target. They have committed to no carbon tax commitments

are no good. You are said

this is not happening

elsewhere in the world. That

no-one has it. What's

happening in China, India,

the United States? The only

way you will have any effect

on India on China or all of

the big emitters is for a

number of smaller countries

to have things in place

should we be the last one to

join that table? We are

talking about being the first

one to get out there. We are not being the first

one... While China continues

to expand. China has growth in emissions would more than

account for all oir emissions

in eight months. This is

precisely while several

Chinese provinces said they will introduce an emissions

trading scheme. You look

#1y7. South Korea, New

Zealand -- Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, the

United States. New Zealand United States. New Zealand

has a minimal trading scheme.

How many large could-fired

power stations are there in

-- coal fired power stations

in New Zealand? Indeed. The

game is China... All right

let me interrupt to create

law and order in the program.

Let me jump in and start

talking about some of the emails we have got coming in

and you can keep in touch

with the program and converse

with the panel myself or by

email or Twitter. The details

are coming across the screen

but we have an email from

Peter S, mmons that says

perhaps demanding what Abbott

should do you should be

asking what the PM and her

incomp tint government are --

incompetent government are doing. I think even Troy on

this program has admitted the

problem. An extreme lefty

Rhys is more loathe to but the reality is most people on the left acknowledge the government have made

mistakes, Gillard herself

said the government have lost

their way. They are still

struggling there is's no

doubt about that but one key

issue why the government lost

its way is because it was

defeated on the floor in the

Senate and House with the ETS

of when Chris Kenny was

running the show from turn

bull. Peter and Judy said

well done Peter on only

getting one radical Liberal

on the show today. We do our

best. And another fellow Stewart has sent an e mail

said if I can just show it on

the screen there is so - it

is so long I don't know how

he managed to write it in the

time we have been on air. But

I will try to read the whole thing during the commercial

break. We will take one of

those now. When we come back

the opportunity for viewer

spit the dummy and also right

of reply by somebody at least

moderately famous out there in media land.

way to reduce CO2 emissions.

And the American forces being withdrawn this year

will still be there throughout the current

fighting season. Six men have

been released on bail after

being charged following a two-year Australian Federal Police investigation into

alleged foreign bribery. The

AFP together with the British

sirus fraud office have been

investigating a company half

owned by the Reserve Bank of

Australia for allegedly

bribing public officials in

Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia

and Nigeria to win back note

splu contracts. The

magistrate has ordered the

men return in September for a

committal mention hearing. A

doctor who removed a woman's

genitals without her consent

has been sentenced to a

maximum of three and a half

years in jail. A NSW District Court judge sentenced

60-year-old Dr Graeme Reeves

to a minimum of two years

behind bars. The court has

heard he was suffering from

major clinical depression, a

personality disorder and

impotens at the time of the

offences. He was practising

in Bega on the far south

coast of NSW. Sydney police

are at a luxe luxury home at Dovar heights in the city's

east this afternoon following

a possible shooting. Fairfax

radio is reporting the home belongs to prominent

nightclub owner John Ibrahim,

police say they are

investigating the discovery

are what are thought to be spent ammunition casings found outside the home this

morning. It is thought two

people were asleep in the

home at the time of the

incident but Mr Ibrahim was

not at the property and in sport Maria Sharapova is a

win away from a fourth Grand

Slam title after qualifying

for the Wimbledon final. She

will meet Petra Kvitova who

beat Victoria Azarenka in

three set, it will be the

2004 Wimbledon champion's first Grand Slam final since

she underwent major shoulder

surgery in 2008. Tomorrow's forecast:

Welcome back. This is

normally the section of the

show on the Contrarians where

we let you the viewer spit

the dummy. There were a few

emails during the week for

people interested in

appearing but quite frankly

it is not I judge about

asking to -- just about

asking to appear it was not

enough good argument to get

somebody who can match up to

Narelle it was last week who

we had on last week who was

pretty good what we had to

say. Keep the emails coming

and we will look to bring the

segment up against next week.

A little later we have a

reply from Paul Howes about

Jamie Briggs comment. I am

joined by Chris Kenny from

'The Australian', Troy

Bramson former speech writer to Kevin Rudd and Rhys

Muldoon noted lefty activist.

We were talking before the break about Tony Abbott

rolling up into a small ball

and I'm not prepared to let

this go. I want to explore it

more because he has done it

on the carbon tax where he is attacking the government and

not wanting to highlight the pros of his ault alternative.

But there is also the mining

tax. A lot of angst where I

am in Perth at the moment

about the mining tax.

Particularly about the

original version your mate

Kevin Rudd came up with which

had a much higher rate but that at least had the virtue

it was going to fill the government's coffers with

river revenue as long as it

didn't kill the industry. The

problem with the new one is

there are question marks how

much it will make in the

long-term. The Senate

committee Mattius Cormann

said during the week had real

concerns about this. The my

question for you is in terms

of the government there are

concerns there, I wonder

whether you agree with that

but secondly in terms of Tony

Abbott opposing it isn't

there hypocrisy there where

most experts in the area and economists agree a profit

based tax is a good reform

but he is not even looking at better approximate based tax

than what the government has

got. He is being oppositionist and looking to

stick to the status quo? I

agree with that. Not only do

I think it is nonsensical to

say we won't take money from

mining companies, it's just

ridiculous, this is probably

where I will sound like the

lefty you portray me as, I

think the RSPT should have gone through and the think

miners should be paying way

more, particularly when you

think 83% of the mining companies are foreign owned

and we only have that

resource once as people well

point out. And I'm amazed I

agree with Bob Brown on this,

it's one of the few things I

find myself agreeing with him

utterly, I think it is

scandalous the major parties

aren't taxing the miners a

lot more. Look I have to

say, it is interesting to

hear you agree with Bob Brown

normally he is a little too

far to the right for you Rhys

but Chris let me bring you

in. This is an issue for

Abbott. It is one thing to attack the government's

mining tax fair enough I have

written plenty of articles

myself panning what's wrong

with it but there is another to have no alternative. It's

not good enough for him to

refer to the status quo bass a lot of people on the right

of politics have been talking

to a time to move to a profit

based tax he needs to put up

a better alternative doesn't

he that at least looks to

deal with reality that royalties hit companies even

when they are still in the

real infancy? Well the

problem here was the Labor

Party under Kevin Rudd put up

a tax which was far too high

and would have devastated the

industry. Now, I disagree entirely with Rhys and I don't want to be taking

economic advice from Bob

Brown but we saw a lot of

backlash across the country

and of course the government

admitted that. The Treasurer

and the new Prime Minister

Julia Gillard have recognised

their mistake, they have consulted with the industry

and they have come up with

what they think is an economically sensible tax

that they say will reap an

extra $3 billion or so for

taxpayers. Now, I think

that's a sensible idea. I

suppose what does concern me

though is that the big miners are saying any are happy to

pay it. Now, on the one hand

I think Tony Abbott will be

foolish to reject that, if

they are happy to pay aand we

want to share the benefits of

the mining resources around a

bit then why not take it. The

only proviso I have is that

these large miners are so

keen to pay them I just wondering whether they

haven't played the government

off a break in the

negotiations and as you say,

maybe it's not going to raise

as much revenue as they

urgent is. But Chris didn't Tony Abbott say that the

mining industry is fighting

for its life? Is the that

the quote he used here? You

agree with that? I think the

initial tax was debilitating.

It was too heavy. He is

staying they still are. I

said if the industry is happy

with the new tax and it takes

in more profits then that's sensible. I think he should

take that tax. But he is

going to go to the election

opposing that tax.

Somebody on Twitter that

calls them scruff-bucket. I

don't know what that's about

but he says PBO has splinters

in his arse from sitting on

the defence. There is no-one

beside me where I'm sitting

at the moment but the reality

is that it has been too long

that Tony Abbott has gotten

away now with not proposing

alternatives. I'm all things

taxi on government

incompetition I have written

a lot about that but we are

at a point now where he is so

far into the polling, we are

far enough into the pal cycle

it is about time he stumped

up with something meaningful

about why he think he is

worth being elected as

opposed to just purely being

in a position where he

attacks the government You

are just getting board bored

with commentating on what an

incompetent government and

instead of holding government

to account for the problems

it has, the Labor Party spin

mice ters want to try to push

the measura off in assessing

Tony Abbott. -- media off

assessing Tony Abbott. I think with you should be looking at government

policies. Chris maybe you

can't walk and chew gum at

the same time but I can

criticise the government for

what it makes faults at the

same time as point out that Tony Abbott just ain't shaping up as an alternative

and frankly the evidence

there is how poor his

personal ratings are. Voters

aren't happy with Abbott they

don't want hip as Prime Minister. They -- him as

Prime Minister. They want

Gillard as Prime Minister a

little less than him. It's a

matter of both. The polling

just shows that's not true.

The Liberal Party away ahead

and we have a government at

the moment theoretically two

years away from an election

and what we should be talking

about is what's actually

happening in the country and what the government is

actually trying to do to fix

it. Chris what you said just

before was that Abbott should take some mining

tax. That's my view. But

therefore do you think that

Abbott is being, he is playing politics very well,

he knows he say couple of

years our out he can say no,

no, no to everything. Do you

think there is a certain ir responsibility to his

position at the moment? He is a good Opposition Leader

about two years out from an

election and what we should be doing is talking about

what the government is doing

and they capital do anything

in opposition. -- can't do

anything in opposition. We

have a country in record

deficit here. We are talking

about massive changes like a

carbon tax we have massive

problems with border

protection and also with the

cattle industry. And... And

science. He is saying science

is bunk economics is bunk. No

you are saying that. He said

it himself today. The

economist, we should have a

look at them rather than what

the argument. Is if he is

talking scientists,

economists, everyone is wrong

but Tony it's a party of

one. At a mid term point of

the government. Not even mid term the government is struggling in the polls and

there are serious questions

about how the government is

going on a range of issues

here but it is up to the

opposition to propose an

alternative. To propose ways

that they would do things differently. And Peter is

exactly right when you look

at Tony Abbott's personal

ratings, they are through the

floor and in fact if he was

Simon Crean or Kim Beazley or Brendan Nelson or Malcolm

Turnbull he would have had

his head chopped off by his party a long time ago. That's

the reality of it. Let's move

this debate a long. I heard

mention in that little discussion between you all

when you were talking over

the top of each other and

Clare baiker asked me can you

please get your panel to

speak one at a time. When the

adults are away the kids will

play. There there is little I

can do about it but gentlemen

try to take that into account

but one of the things you

raised during the discussion

was the whole live exports

thing where this is hurting

people on the land people on the land that rely

on that income and there is

no real end in sight here.

Julia Gillard keeps saying

she understands but question

don't know where the end in

sight. -- we don't know where

the end in sight is. What should the government

do? They mis handled this

position in the start. They

are sucked into playing a

short media game day in, day

out. All they want to do is

worry about what's going to

lead the next bulletin on Sky

News or what will be the

headlines the next day. So

when 'Four Corners' have the

documentary showing this

horrible cruelty to animals

they don't know what to do.

They ban the trade. A grown

up government, a sensible

government with mature

operators will say here is a

problem let's look how we fix

it and they would consult

with the industry and talk to

Indonesia certainly and work

out how to revolve these issues rather than reacting

to the media, banging an

industry and now they are

trying to talk to ibd trying to talk to ibd nicha.

It really is -- Indonesia. It

is impure and ineffective government and -- immature

and ineffective government

and hopefully now they have

Kevin Rudd involved they

might make progress. There we

go. Suddenly Chris Kenny is a

fan of Kevin Rudd. We will

take a commercial break on

that unusual thought. You are

watching the Contrarians. We

will be back discussing a

wider range of issues. I

also want to take a look

overseas. Back in a moment.

Last week on the program

Jamie Briggs had a red-hot go

had his rant at Paul Howes.

He wasn't too impressed by it

we invited him on the program

but he preferred instead to

put his complain in writing.

He said his comments last

week on the Contrarians about

the AWU's recent visit to

North Queensland for 125th

anniversary are laughable.

Following in the footsteps of

his predecessor that's

Alexander Downer it seems he

talks first and thinks later:

Which incidentally is in

Briggs electorate of Mayo:

That was Paul Howes

from the AWU apart from offending all of Adelaide

Chris Kenny what did you make

of that? I think that's most

amusing he is there to

celebrate a strike. Loves to

celebrate a big strike does

Paul Howes. That's what he

lives for is a strike. He is trying to work one up at the

moment. I caught up with him

for a drink after the Budget

and I offered to buy him a

beer but he wanted Dom beer but he wanted Dom

Perignon. Only kidding. Peter

I'm actually disappointed

that you didn't know that the

town of Barcola, it was one

of the birth places of the

Labor Party. Academic Troy I

asked you during the break

how to pronounce it and you

said no idea. That's not

true. It is the birds place

of the Labor Party. -- birth place of the Labor Party. I place of the Labor Party. I

have to say Balmain but

Queenslanders don't think so.

The trade move in gave us

many thing, a -- the trade

union movement gave us many

things, things that we all

should celebrate and you come

from the Liberal Party, and

the Liberal Party in the

1890s and early 1900s were supported by the Labor Party

because of the exactly kind of things. So

of things. So good on him for

being out there and

celebrating his union, it has made a great contribution to Australian history and

that's... It's nice to see

Troy you are back on impoord

in the AWU unlike a couple of

weeks ago when you had a red

hot go over Joe Ludwig over

the cattle exports. That's

not true. Not even worth

responding to. We should talk

today about the fixed price on

on carbon formally known as a

carbon tax. Just what is

Julia Gillard calling it now?

Can I ask Chris what do you

want to talk about? The fact

that Tony Abbott not that

long ago said that he thought

it was the most efficient way

to price carbon and simplest

way to go about it or do you

want to talk the fact about

Abbott wrote an opinion piece

about Malcolm Turnbull on the

merits and virtue of passing

an ETETS. What do you want to

go to? You are fixed on Tony

Abbott today and that's fine,

he is the Opposition Leader,

but, in fact, what happens in

the country as the government runs the show and they run

the agenda and we should

actually scrutinise them a

bit. I think it is most amusing that Julia Gillard

who said this is a carbon tax now doesn't want to

anymore. .other day on Q and

A Joe Hockey said by the end

of this week all the Liberal Party's policies for the next election will be finished. If they are finished let's see

them. We have two years to

go. The two year election

campaign, You can't work for a newspaper like 'The

Australian' and say you don't

want to have public debate or

scrutiny or discussions. I am

talking about... A newspaper

that leads debate in the

country. When we should do is

Joe Hockey and Malcolm

Turnbull and whoever is there Tony Abbott they should

release the policies they

said they have got and

settled and done and dusted,

put them on a table and we

can put them on discussion.

People in politics, far left

celebrities we can all debate

it. A 20 summit it it

sounding like it's great. So

let's see it What are we

waiting for. I want to raise

a question again. An email

came in from Bob who said the

industry is not banned it is

suspended stop telling lies

Chris. Okay we will move on

from that but the government

is looking to a long-term

solution to a problem started by the Coalition government

under Howard with the

minister for hernias warren

Truss who decided not to

extend the tagging of cattle

to the live export trade how

do you respond to that? Now

we are talking about an issue

and an issue that needs resolving this obviously has

a long history this trade and

it has not been trouble free

and that's what we have got

to discuss this and that goss

back to my point earlier,

when this documentary came up

the government needed to look

at these issues which have

been long running, we have

trade banned of live exports

to the Middle East banned

before or suspended and then

re instituted with the new arrangements and that's obviously what needed to

happen here. No-one likes to

see cruelty to ap animals

but the government has

handled it in a sensible way.

They need to look at the

background and alternatives

and fix it not suspend it and

suddenly throw a whole people

out of work, perhaps jeopardise this industry in the future and our relationship with Indonesia

and by the way just allow

animals from other countries

to be slaughtered in an

inhumane way in Indonesia.

Let's me ask Rhys, do you

and your Vegan mates how do

you guys feel about the whole suspending of live

cattle? This is where I have

to say that I am in agreement

with Chris on the whole. I

think that the way it has

been handled has been really

badly and incredibly rushed and not thought out and it seems like one of the sort of

policy on the run where it's

announced and you are hope

all the things will fall in

place behind it. I think the

whole sort of situation is

pretty bad and ind Indonesia

should have been spoken to.

800 abattoirs they closed

down just like that you need

more consultation I would

have thought. I think

contrary to the myth you like

to prop propagate I have an

issue with Joe Ludwig which I don't.... You do protest too

much. I think what Joe Ludwig

propose ed initially was the

right way to go. He announced

that they would close the

system down to a few

abattoirs, and then focus on

improving conditions there.

That is the solution and I

must confess, basically

declare rather I used to work

in this area of government

policy and I think that was

actually the right way to go

which is close the loop and

focus on the supply chain and

improving the on the ground

delivery of those animals and

how they are handled. For the

time we have got left it's

only a few minutes I want to

go through the panel and see

what you think one by one

about the week ahead. This

is the week that we see the

Greens take over the balance

of power in their own right

in the Senate so there will

be a lot of discussion about

that. Of course we probably

won't see anything come to a

head but it will be interesting discussion and of

course the onus is on the

Greens now, if they will

control that balance of power

to exercise it sensibly, to

try and do things in the

national interest What do you

think they will do? I think

they will play the game they

have played so far and will

be ruthless with it but we will wait to see. I think

they will be sobered a little bit by this extra power and the other thing I would like to know is what you are really doing over there in

Perth. Yeah, very funny. Of

course you know I have

got... S it a tough working trip. The university of

Western Australia but I am

not over here to see Lord

Monckton speak. He did that

at UWA I can many prois you

that. What is your view --

promise you that Troy? We

have got a very rare winter

sitting of Parliament in July

coming up. It doesn't happen

very often. There have been sitting a long time... The last sitting before they have

a long break. That's right.

Before the big break. I have

been down in Canberra

regularly talking to

ministers and shadow #347bss

and they are re-- ministers

and they are weary and

looking forward to the break.

I think interesting of course

the Greens take the balance

of power in the Senate, but

you know, most legislation actually passes with

government and opposition

supporting it. So you might actually see a situation emerge where it's not just the Greens and government

voting together but the

government and opposition

voting together on ordinary

every day legislation

including the Budget. The

opposition made a song and dance about the budget bills and now they will support

them through the Parliament.

So I think we will see more

of that. We are out of time.

I would love to get Rhys -

you have got a moment. What

are your thoughts? I think

that the Greens ticking the

balance of power is a pretty

big story and they will be

under an incredible workload

and aisle be interesting to

see how green power goes

because it is obviously very

easy to be moral when you

don't have power, obviously morality will be slightly tested when you do have

power. I will be

interested to see how that

get goes and Richo will be

having cups of coffee with

different people this

week. You had Troy's entire

speech to think of something

when Chris took up your

point. But you didn't. We thanks four your company this has been the Contrarians we

will be back at the same time

next week. See you then. Live Captioning by Ai-Media