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Tonight on the 7.30 Report -

first 11 years, I had 11 colleagues kill themselves.

It's OK, it's OK.

Why overloaded medicos fear asking for help.

We practitioners expect expect our patients to look after their own health and we should be doing
the same thing for ourselves.

We're supermen in our own mind. We've been trained to believe that we are.

And the trapped Chilean miners just days away from freedom.

It's amazing. It's absolutely amazing.

I don't think this has been done ever before. Not this deep or not rescued.

Distressed doctors pushed to the limit

Distressed doctors pushed to the limit

Broadcast: 11/10/2010

Reporter: Kirstin Murray

The 7.30 Report goes inside an emergency department to film just one doctor at work for a period of
24 hours to illustrate the intense demands doctors placed on doctors.


KERRY O'BRIEN, PRESENTER: The chronic ills of the nation's health system often present first at
hospital emergency departments, where long queues and long hours add to extreme stress and pressure
on medical staff. It's long been seen as a rite of passage for doctors and nurses working very long
shifts while solving sometimes complex cases and bearing the brunt of patients' emotional distress.
But the relentless demands of the job drive many medics to alleviate their work-related stress and
anxiety by self-medicating and struggling on.

One study in America has found that some 20 per cent of medical residents in hospitals suffered
clinical depression.

Kirstin Murray and a 7.30 Report crew were granted access to an emergency department for 24 hours
to film just one doctor at work to illustrate the intensity of events in a typical emergency ward
where any case can happen and all too frequently does. And I should warn, some viewers may find
some of the images in this story distressing.

KIRSTIN MURRAY, REPORTER: On duty in this regional Victorian public hospital is emergency physician
Peter Wirth. Tonight he's overseeing the care of 26 patients.

PETER WIRTH, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: The average shift is 10 hours and what can happen in a 10-hour
shift can be horrendously busy. ... There's no tap - on and off taps. We have very little warning
and no control over what's coming through the doors.

KIRSTIN MURRAY: In this ward, every bed is full. Cases are backing up in corridors. But tonight is
no different from any other.

PETER WIRTH: This isn't chaotic; this is actually quite calm for us. We never use the word quiet.
Never. It's a jinx.

KIRSTIN MURRAY: For those doing the rounds, it's a demanding, stressful job and sometimes the
pressure can take its toll.

Now the health of health workers is under focus after a beyondblue study found suicide rates among
medical practitioners could be twice that of the general population.

PETER WIRTH: In my first 11 years, I had 11 colleagues kill themselves. Now if you're already
fragile, if your bucket's already full, then it doesn't take much - things that you would normally
cope with in a normal day-to-day situation can become, um, even more overwhelming.

We have access to some extremely powerful drugs. They are absolutely, to the public's
understanding, they're like carrying a loaded gun.

KIRSTIN MURRAY: Over a 25-year career, Dr Wirth's witnessed the downfall of many co-workers, but
four years ago, he himself came close to the edge.

PETER WIRTH: I was losing my focus on my job, I was becoming very distracted, I was doubting
myself. And I remember at one point really believing in all of my soul that I was absolutely
worthless and hopeless and there was nothing to live for.

MUKESH HAIKERWAL, beyondblue SPOKESMAN: We're humans and, you know, we aren't immune from any of
the ups and downs of life that everybody in the rest of the population has.

KIRSTIN MURRAY: Former AMA president Mukesh Haikerwal says it's no surprise medical practitioners
can find it hard to cope.

MUKESH HAIKERWAL: We're trained that you make a difference and cure people, and in fact when you
work in the community in general practice, you make little difference, and actually, there's a
large number of people that obviously succumb to their illnesses or their old age or whatever goes
on in their lives, and it's hard to deal with.

KIRSTIN MURRAY: The danger is, those medics who do struggle rarely seek professional help for

PETER WIRTH: We're supermen in our own mind. We've been trained to believe that we are, and I think
there's a fear that the public are going to judge us if we show fallibility.

KIRSTIN MURRAY: For some, there's the urge to self-diagnose and self-medicate; others simply battle

But both coping mechanisms can have dire consequences.

CRAIG HASSAD, DEPT. OF GENERAL PRACTICE, MONASH UNI: There was a study in the US, and they found
that 20 per cent of doctors working in the hospital would've had clinical depression at any given
time. They made six times as many - over six times as many medical areas prescribing errors,
medication errors as non-depressed doctors doing the same jobs.

KIRSTIN MURRAY: GP-turned-university lecturer Dr Craig Hassad says it's high time doctors'
attitudes change. And he's trying to teach the next generation how to better care for their own
mental health.

CRAIG HASSAD: I think we really need to get beyond the notion that this is just a little bit of
warm fuzzy stuff you tack on at the end of your medical curriculum just to make yourself feel like
you're humanising it in some way. And this is actually right upfront and centre of core clinical

KIRSTIN MURRAY: But changing how mental illness is dealt with in the workplace may take some time.

PETER WIRTH: We can pull back a curtain in a cubicle of an emergency department, but it seems as
doctors and nurses and others that we have a reluctance to treat a colleague the way we would treat
a complete stranger.

KIRSTIN MURRAY: And doctors warn mandatory reporting laws are making the situation even worse.

MUKESH HAIKERWAL: There is a concern which if someone is looking after another doctor for whatever
problem they have medically, that not only do they have to mandatorily report it, they could be
rubbed off the register.

KIRSTIN MURRAY: Now seven hours into his shift, Peter Wirth has to tell this very ill man there are
no treatment options left.

PETER WIRTH: You understand that if you get much, much worse, and the only thing we could do would
be to put you on life support, what's your feeling about that?

KIRSTIN MURRAY: All doctors could do was take away his pain. Within 24 hours, the 83-year-old died.

Years ago, Dr Wirth would've struggled with the heavy weight of an emotional day like this. But
after seeking treatment for his depression, he finds he's not only better able to cope, but is a
better doctor for his experience.

PETER WIRTH: Now that I'm a bit more empathetic to it, I can recognise not only in patients that
might come in, but you can recognise that in colleagues too.

It is a very tough job, no question, but it is enormously fulfilling and rewarding. All I would
suggest is the system needs to be able to help people when they hit the little speed humps along
the way.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Incidentally, if anyone in the wider community feels they need help or further
information, they can call lifeline on 131 114 or contact beyondblue. Kirsten Murray with that

Rudd in his new role as Foreign Minister

Rudd in his new role as Foreign Minister

Broadcast: 11/10/2010

Reporter: Kerry O'Brien

Kevin Rudd joins the program for his first extended interview since the election.


KERRY O'BRIEN, PRESENTER: Kevin Rudd was sworn in as Foreign Minister in the new minority Gillard
Government just short of a month ago. He's already been to Pakistan to help raise awareness about
the plight of flood victims, the UN and Washington, and leaves again tomorrow night to visit Tokyo,
Brussels and then on to Rome where he will lead the Australian delegation to the canonisation of
Mary MacKillop.

But tomorrow is also the eighth anniversary of the Bali bombing, and Kevin Rudd says he is
concerned that Australians should not become complacent about the ongoing threat of terrorism.

The Foreign Minister joins me now from Parliament House in Canberra.

Kevin Rudd, last month was the ninth anniversary of September 11 and tomorrow is the eighth
anniversary of the Bali bombing, as I said. The so-called "War on Terror" has also in that time
been waged in Iraq and Afghanistan. Is the world more or less safe from terrorism today than it was
eight or nine years ago?

KEVIN RUDD, FOREIGN MINISTER: Well I think the important question there, Kerry, is what would the
world be like had we not engaged in this rolling campaign against terrorist organisations?
Intelligence agencies around the world, were they permitted to do so, would give you a list as long
as your arm of events and incidents that they've prevented through their fine and professional
work. I think the key thing to remember is that this threat of terrorism remains alive and well.
The reason why I spoke about this when I was in New York is because you've seen recent changes to
US travel notices, to its own public about concerns of terrorist activity in Europe. I'm simply
reflecting that, as my department has, in the travel advisories for all Australians. This threat
hasn't gone away. It's real and people should continue to exercise genuine vigilance, particularly
as they travel abroad to destinations where the travel advisories warn them of terrorist activity.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Do you believe that Australians, Australian tourists don't take those warnings
seriously enough? And have you got any reason at this time to be raising that awareness in

KEVIN RUDD: Well the Australian Government doesn't change its own travel advisories on the basis of
a whim and a frolic. We do so on the basis of considered analysis of all the information which
comes to us. We're not in the business of double standards - holding some information privately and
then telling the Australian public it's all fine and dandy out there. We seek to be as transparent
as is humanly possible, consistent with our obligations to our intelligence relationships with
other countries, to get that information out there.

On your question about the Australian public, each Australian makes up their own decisions and
their own mind about what to do and about where to go. Our responsibility as a government is to
place the information before them about what the threats are, and around the world in many
destinations they remain real, and in recent times there's been an intensification of reporting.

KERRY O'BRIEN: You're obviously very much at the heart of the debate in Australia about Australia's
involvement in Afghanistan. We know that that is a very complex and troubling debate, or issue -
challenge. Al-Qaeda had no real presence in Iraq nine years ago. It does today. We're told it no
longer has a presence in Afghanistan, while Australian and Coalition troops are still fighting
there, but Al-Qaeda does have a real presence in Pakistan, the Yemen, Somalia and who knows where
else. Is there evidence to demonstrate that Al-Qaeda is less dangerous than it was at the time of
September 11 and Bali?

KEVIN RUDD: I think the best answer to that question, Kerry, is that it's much more monitored in
terms of its activities around the world. It's much harder for Al-Qaeda to operate than it was in
the past. There's a far, shall I say, more seamless web of international monitoring and
collaboration with governments around the world, many of whom we've had no contact with in decades
gone by. Of course that doesn't mean that the Al-Qaeda threat has been removed; it hasn't. Nor has
it been removed in relation to other terrorist organisations. We cannot say that the world's going
to be terrorism-free - that'd just be foolish and simply not in accord with the facts. What we can
say is that the level of collaboration between governments around the world has made it infinitely
harder for this group and groups like it to operate. Prior to 2001, they treated Afghanistan
basically as a free-range training park where they could deploy, exercise and then conduct
operations around the world. And remember, so many of the Australians, the more than 110
Australians killed in terrorist attacks around the world, many of the perpetrators of those attacks
were trained in Afghanistan. So let's bear that in mind.

KERRY O'BRIEN: But you would see intelligence information all the time. Isn't it also true, because
certainly there is a clear impression of it, that Al-Qaeda is now more widespread, now has more
recruits than it had in those pre-September 11, pre-Bali days?

KEVIN RUDD: As I said before, Kerry, Al-Qaeda and groups like it have not been eliminated; they
continue to exist. Our job ...

KERRY O'BRIEN: No, no, but my question was are they stronger? It might be harder for them to
operate, but in terms of their numbers and their spread, are they stronger?

KEVIN RUDD: I think the relevant question, and I don't wish to go to intelligence reporting in my
answer to your question. The relevant answer though to your question is that it is much harder for
them to operate. In the past, their communications with one another was reasonably uncurtailed.
These days, it's very tough and rough, these folk out in the field. Therefore, we've made progress,
real progress. But let us be responsible and vigilant about this. The threat hasn't gone away. This
is going to be with us for a long, long, long time. Our responsibility as governments is to do
everything we can in the field of military operations, in the field of preventive diplomacy, in the
field of intelligence collaboration, hard and good police work, as well as providing transparently
as much information to the travelling public as possible. We're rising to that challenge and we owe
a debt of gratitude to so many of our professionals in the field doing this day in, day out.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Now I know you went to Pakistan primarily to raise more awareness. You felt that the
Pakistan - that the full disaster of the Pakistan floods hadn't totally penetrated the world's
consciousness. But there is a sense on this ongoing issue of Pakistan's in security terms that the
US is seriously hamstrung in what it can do to counter the growing threat from Islamic extremism in
Pakistan, with friends and allies of that extremism embedded inside Pakistan's military and
intelligence community. Now, that is so, isn't it: that this is - this an incredibly tough
situation and a dangerous situation for America and its allies to deal with?

KEVIN RUDD: Well that is one of the reasons why I'm going to Brussels in a couple of days' time. We
have a meeting of friends of democratic Pakistan, which brings together foreign ministers from I
think 30 or 35 countries from around the world, in there supporting the Pakistani civilian
government and their military to build their capacity to deal with the terrorism threat within
their own borders. This work has only really got going in earnest in the last couple of years. But
we're in there big time, playing our part as well. Of course you're right to say that there are
still parts of the Pakistan-Afghanistan border which are highly permeable when it comes to
terrorist movements across the border. We're working on that. Sometimes there are successes and
sometimes there are not. But let me tell you we're now seized to the challenge, and together with
the Government of Islamabad, working together on it.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Julia Gillard, essentially, when you mentioned Brussels, made her foreign policy
debut in Brussels last week at the Asia-Europe summit. Did you consider going with her? Who decided
you shouldn't go or wouldn't? And were you startled by her admission on this program that foreign
policy was not her passion and that if she had a choice, she'd rather be back home in a school
watching kids learn to read than siting in a meeting in Brussels?

KEVIN RUDD: Well let me start on that last one; I think it's been grossly overblown. The Prime
Minister's absolutely right; education is a core priority of this government. It was a core
priority of the government which I led as well. And I think that's the only point and the core
point that she was making.

On the other questions you raise, which is Brussels and whether or not I should've been there for
the inaugural meeting of the Asia-Europe meeting, look, let's just call a spade a spade here.
Foreign ministers in the past, whether it's in the period that I was Prime Minister or the period
Mr Howard was Prime Minister, rarely travelled with the Prime Minister to major international
gatherings. It's just our convention and our custom to do it that way. And it's entirely
appropriate that it should have been handled that way.

By the way, the Asia-Europe meeting, Australia's been gunning to be at that table for a good decade
plus. And again, it's important that we've landed a seat at the table at one of the many forums
which bring together the governments of our region and those of Europe, but the governments of our
region in particular with Australia with a seat at the table.

KERRY O'BRIEN: On a personal note, Mr Rudd, in an interview with the Brisbane Courier-Mail at the
weekend you talked about what was going through your mind as you sat through the swearing in of the
new Gillard ministry. It wasn't something you appeared to be enjoying, I must say. Is that a
reasonable observation?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, I'm not sure that I actually said that in those terms to the Brisbane
Courier-Mail. I can't quite recall the interview in all of its detail.

KERRY O'BRIEN: I said it wasn't - I said myself it wasn't something you appeared to be enjoying.

KEVIN RUDD: Well, I think what I said to the Courier and - was when they asked me more broadly
about the questions of the change in my position, is that this was a great job to have. It's a
great opportunity to continue to make contributions to the Australian national interest. And also I
think what I said in that interview was that in politics you get to make some choices, and that's
whether you're on about something a bit bigger and broader than yourself and your own career, or
whether you're just in the business of, you know, as I said in the interview, climbing up the
greasy pole of politics. I hope I'm in the former category, which is that I'm interested in a wider
public interest, and for me and the job that I'm executing now, there are big issues on the table,
concerning terrorism, we've talked about, concerning development for the poorest countries in the
world, concerning our place in the region and a highly dynamic strategic environment with the rise
of China. There's plenty in the in-tray to occupy my day, Kerry, and I'm glad to have the
opportunity to do so.

KERRY O'BRIEN: What you also were quoted as saying that as you sat there watching the swearing in,
you were reflecting on your former colleagues who had lost their seats at the election.

KEVIN RUDD: Well that's true. There are many in Queensland who are first-class members of
Parliament who are no longer in the Parliament, and the question I was put was, "Well, how did you
feel?" - that's me. Well, the question was I think better put: "What about individual members of
Parliament who are first-class members who weren't returned?" I think of people like Chris Trevor
in Gladstone, I think of Jim Turner up in Cairns and Kerri Rea in Brisbane and Jon Sullivan in
Longman and people like that. Brett Raguse in - these are first-class members of Parliament who
were swept out of office. So, I was thinking of them, frankly, because these are really good

KERRY O'BRIEN: I'll put the question as gently as I can, but did you feel any personal
responsibility for that loss?

KEVIN RUDD: Knowing you, Kerry, when you say ...

KERRY O'BRIEN: My propensity for gentle questions.

KEVIN RUDD: Knowing you when you say you're about to put a gentle question, open bracket, it's
about to be not, close brackets. Look, I'm a member of the Australian Labor Party. I led the
government which was elected in 2007. The government which I led obviously made mistakes. I've said
that before. And so therefore it's a collective responsibility. I don't walk away from that. The
key challenge is to rise to the occasion and deal with the many practical issues that are out there
for the Australian people today. And that's what the Government's on about: getting on with the
business of delivering effective administration for the working people of Australia, and that means
how the world impacts on us as well.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Are your own wounds healing, and what in particular got you through what must've
been an incredibly tough period in the weeks after you lost the prime ministership?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, Kerry, I'm not about to sort of reopen and relitigate how one felt on a
particular day. I don't think that's of value to people. I really don't. Because there are big
challenges for the country and for the community today. I'd much rather focus on those things.
Besides, folk like you and others will be writing copious articles on what happened, there are
books coming out. Someone tells me that your friend and colleague Barrie Cassidy has a book coming
out this week. Knowing Barrie, as I did, as a bloke who declared war on me before I became Prime
Minister and in the week after I became Prime Minister and on the record, I'm sure I won't do well
out of that one either. But you know something ... ?

KERRY O'BRIEN: I'm asking the question on the basis that I'm assuming there's a lot of people in
the audience who were quite shocked by the way all of that happened and who I think would probably
have a very genuine concern and not prurient interest in knowing whether the wounds have healed and
how you are.

KEVIN RUDD: Well, Kerry, I wouldn't be sitting here before you as Foreign Minister of Australia if
I was not made of sufficient stuff to do that job. I'm a person of deep conviction, I'm a person
who has a sense of responsibility, I'm a person who believes that we've got important matters to
look after for the Australian community. And my job is to get in there and do my bit. It's not to
go into a corner and mope about what may or may not have happened. As I said, there's a bevy of
people and journalists and writers about to rake over all those coals. Good luck to 'em. That's
their prerogative. I don't intend to be part of that. My job is to attend to the responsibilities
of this office.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Kevin Rudd, thankyou very much for talking with us.

KEVIN RUDD: Thanks very much, Kerry.

Chilean miners close to freedom

Chilean miners close to freedom

Broadcast: 11/10/2010

Reporter: Conor Duffy

Rescuers are within days of freeing 33 miners from a remote mine site in San Jose, Chile. The men
have been trapped underground for 66 days; rescue crews from around the world have been drilling
around the clock to free them.


KERRY O'BRIEN, PRESENTER: Excitement is building at the remote San Jose mine site in northern
Chile, where rescuers are within days of pulling 33 miners from the depths of the Earth. The men
have been trapped 700 metres down since a collapse 66 days ago. Since then, rescue crews from all
over the world have been drilling around the clock to bring them back to safety. It's already an
extraordinary story of survival against the odds. But authorities are warning the last part of the
operation will be the riskiest. Conor Duffy reports from the San Jose mine.

CONOR DUFFY, REPORTER: The Atacama Desert in northern Chile is one of the driest places on Earth
and these stark windswept sand hills have been familiar only to miners, locals and hardy
travellers. But the incredible survival story of the 33 Chilean miners who have been trapped 700
metres below ground for more than two months has captivated people all over the world and turned
this lonely valley into a global media hub.

ANDRES LLARENA, CHILEAN NAVY: It's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. I don't think this has been
done ever before. Not this deep or not this amount of people being rescued.

CONOR DUFFY: Are you impressed with how the miners have conducted themselves underground?

JAIME MANALICH, CHILEAN HEALTH MINISTER: I am completely impressed. That's part of the miracle.

CONOR DUFFY: For 17 days, the miners were on their own, until a small rescue tube was set up to
send them food, medical advice from doctors and other basics to keep them alive. Since then, these
three rigs have been drilling non-stop to bring them to the surface.

ANDRES LLARENA: They have to have self-control and that is kind of hard to achieve and to find,
especially in the younger ones. The key to surviving down there is for them to stay as a group.

JAIME MANALICH: And you have to remember that since the beginning we told them, "You have to be
prepared to stay there at least for three months." And, fortunately, it's going to happen for,
let's say, two and a half months, but they have behaved as real heroes.

CONOR DUFFY: It's also been an excruciating wait for the men's loved ones.

This makeshift school has been set up in a shipping container so their children can keep up with

The mayoress of their makeshift camp is Maria Segovia Roje, who keeps a maternal eye over the
dozens living here.

MARIA SEGOVIA ROJE, MAYORESS (voiceover translation): We're happy and content to be waiting for the
massive moment when they come out, because there's little time left. Last night we have a vigil so
that God could give us strength for the last push.

CONOR DUFFY: At times this camp has had a party atmosphere, as the families wait for their loved
ones below. But there is also rage for the copper and goldmine's owners, who have been accused of
neglecting safety at the mine. The mine's owners have asked for forgiveness, but that's unlikely
anytime soon.

MARIA SEGOVIA ROJE (voiceover translation): Oh, yes, yes, we're not angry - we're furious. I want
to hit him. Just land one good punch. The owner had no respect for the workers; he had no respect
for the families. He didn't even tell us what had happened.

CONOR DUFFY: On the weekend, the families finally received some good news. The first drill to reach
the men broke through, at last providing an escape route. However authorities will now need to
reinforce the shaft with steel pipes. The rescue operation will then enter its most dangerous phase
as the men are pulled individually to the surface.

JAIME MANALICH: The more risky part is it's going to happen beginning on Tuesday or Wednesday or
whatever, but that time it's going to be very, very stressful for all of us.

ANDRES LLARENA: There's a lot of heavy work ahead for them. They have to - you have to keep in mind
that they have to be able to remove a lot of debris, a lot of sand and mud that is gonna be there
right beneath the escaping tunnel.

CONOR DUFFY: Chilean naval commander Andres Llarena is one of the few people to have spoken to the
miners. He's leading a team of Navy doctors and has held a video conference with the 33 men to give
them survival tips.

What did they say to you?

ANDRES LLARENA: Oh, they doing great. They're doing absolutely fantastic. They're healthy as a
horse. ... They're eating well, they're hydrating well, their psychological and mental status is
absolutely balanced. They're just waiting for the day to come.

CONOR DUFFY: Commander Llarena will also greet the men and lead a team trying to help them deal
with the trauma of being trapped underground for so long.

ANDRES LLARENA: I'll get the privilege of being the first doctor to help them on the surface and
start the medical assessment after each of them get to surface.

CONOR DUFFY: What are you gonna say to them?

ANDRES LLARENA: Ah, that's a good question. I've been working on a line, but I'm not sure yet, I'm
not sure yet.

CONOR DUFFY: Are you excited?

ANDRES LLARENA: Absolutely, absolutely, yes, yes.

CONOR DUFFY: Chile's Health Minister Jaime Manalich hopes his country can work with Australia to
improve mine safety and says authorities have been looking at the case of Brant Webb and Todd
Russell for tips on how to treat the 33.

JAIME MANALICH: I remember some of those guys telling some TV show that after several months they
have bad dreams, they panic. Therefore you can imagine that could happen with these guys after 64,
65 days.

ANDRES LLARENA: One of the major challenges for us in the medical area is that we're so much used
to picking up the book out of the shelf and reading how this is supposed to be done. Too bad
there's no book now. We are writing it.

CONOR DUFFY: But those long-term battles will be well and truly forgotten in the euphoria of a
successful rescue. And the mayoress of Camp Hope is preparing a true South American welcome for the
lost 33.

MARIA SEGOVIA ROJE (voiceover translation): When they were found there, we knew they were alive. We
immediately had a barbecue. Oh, imagine when we knew they were alive. Now when they get out, the
huge party we're going to have, absolutely, that's the truth.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Conor Duffy reporting from Chile.

We will be back at the same time tomorrow, but for now, goodnight.