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(generated from captions) Back to you, audio) I having a little bit of trouble hearing us. No, I can just you, Virginia. I thought hearing us. No, I can just hear had already left to go and have a boogie on the stage! I just asking you, is it a family evening down there? Are the families gathering for picnics and fireworks? There's plenty of families down here. their chicken and champagne and they're and doing all sorts of things, champagne and they're boogying

getting ready for to start at on ice. I will be down to hope you have that champagne

you very shortly indeed. I will keep the champagne on ice for you! Thank you Mark. There you have it. Mark Carmody out and about and he loves a party in Canberra. will attend one loves a party in Canberra. He

That's ABC News. Stay with us will attend one wherever it is.

now for the 7.30 Report, which is coming up next. And remember, you can find the latest headlines 24 hours a day evening, goodnight. at ABC Online. Enjoy your

Closed Captions by CSI

This Program is Live

Captioned. Tonight on the '7.30

Report', Australia's high-rise

future. Why a bigger population

is going to change the face of

suburbia. People object to more

high-rise. The debate is over.

If we are going to go for a

population of 35 million by

2050 a lot of our cities will

be for high-rise. This sort of

destruction is coming to a

suburb near you some day.

Welcome to the program. On

Australia Day, 2010. And

appropriately tonight we

continue our series on the

future shape of the nation.

More than 90% of Australians

live on the coastline, 75% in

the capital cities. Most of us

grew up with suburban

backyards. Over the next few

decades more and more

Australians will find

themselves living in medium or

high density clusters as rapid

population growth impacts on the nation's major growth

centres, it's on the roads most

people are likely to see the

early effects as we move

towards the population of 35

million by 2050. We rely more heavily on the car than any

other country, other than

America, governments struggle

to meet the demand for freeways

or make public transport an

attractive alternative. In the

second of our special series on

population growth, Matt peacock

focuses on housing and


I think Australia is on the

brink of a major

transformation, and one way or

the other we have to do this.

Australia at 35 million with

will have two cities at 7

million, Melbourne and Sydney,

and south-east Queensland will

be between 5-6 million. If we

role out the suburbs, one after

the other, making a more and

more carbon intensive world in

our cities, then we are

stuffed. For decades millions of Australians have grown up

wedded to the ideal of the

suburban block - Hills Hoist,

garden and lawn. But dramatic

changes are now in store for

Australian cities as the

country's rapidly rising

population strains their

already creaking infrastructure

in a carbon-constrained world.

Now is crunch time, says urban

designer Professor Kim

Dovey. One level this looks

like a challenge, at another

level it's an opportunity to

add amenity to Australian


This is the future trend of

Australian housing. Life in a

high or medium rise apartment

block unit with much less

space. This space suit us

perfectly because, first, we

both work in the city, so I'm

close from work, the kids go to

school around here, it's easy

to drop them in without taking

a car. I am not a big car

person. The Battersons are

raising three children in

Sydney's inner city. Here it's

all about small gardens, and

shared space. They don't need

much garden, because I spend my

weekend gardening instead of

spending with my children. If

we want to enjoy the garden of

someone else, like the park,

it's a lot easier, and the pool

we don't have to maintain the

pool, it's even better. Whether

Australians want high-rise or

not, warns former NSW premier

Bob Carr, they are getting

it. People object in Melbourne

and Sydney to more high-rise.

Well, the debate is over, if we

are going to go for a

population of 35 million by

2050 a whole lot of our cities

will be for high-rise. But the

Australian dream of the

suburban house and garden is

alive and well with ever more

people still demanding their

own detached home. In every

capital city Australian urban

sprawl continues unabated. For

the Lambertis living on

Melbourne's fringe meant a big

house and a big yard. Although

there is a downside to living

so far from the city centre. The public transport out here

is not as great as what it

could be. So you definitely are

car-dependent, and we need two

cars, one for work, and one for

the children and I to get

around in. With energy and

petrol prices soon set to

double or even worse, it's

those with multiple cars and

large airconditioned homes who

will be hardest hit. We

certainly would have to tighten

the Budget. We'd have to

probably cut out a few things. You definitely feel

it. Families like this one and

the thousands of neighbours

joining them could face a grim

future according to mon Ash

University's Professor Graham

Currie. We have the most

car-dependent country in the

world, with the lowest urban

densities, which means we

spread our people out, increasing the scale of the

transport problem, and

increasing the transport needs.

Until recently road building

seemed to be an answer, but

freewayed quickly fill up.

Australia exceeds America for

the greatest amount of time

lost to the economy while

people sit in traffic jams, it

is expected to double over the

next few decades unless public

transport improves. One

Melbourne frame is equivalent

to 1.8km of traffic. One

Melbourne train is an hour's

worth of freeway lanes, and

several. The new tunnel talked

about for metros in Sydney and

Melbourne - they are the

equivalent of 6-7 freeway

systems in terms of their

capacity. Perth, too, has a

love affair with the car.

One-fifth of all its suburban

land is Roadway. But here a new

rail system to Mandurah has

been hailed as a solution to

urban sprawl. It's very

stressful in traffic backed up. I don't know how people do to

every day, I did it for some

time before the Mandurah

railway line commenced. I

wouldn't do it again. Before

the rail link it took Shane

Bradfield twice as long, an

hour and a half to get to

work. A full hour's drive

basically, particularly if you

leave at 8:00. By the time you

get close to the city, it

narrows, it's bumper to bumper

all the way. I jump on the

train, I read my book and I relax. The Mandurah rail

provides a model for other

cities according to Curtin

University's Professor Peter

Newman. The transport planners

said it won't works, it's going

into car-dependent suburbs that

have never had decent public

transport. It's scattered, not

dense enough. All the reasons

you can think of. It was built.

It was brilliantly successful,

carrying 55,000 a day compared

to 14,000 on buses. It is

reshaping the land use. It's a

different story in eastern

Australia, where a spate of

recent breakdowns dramatically

highlighted the weaknesses of

an ageing transport infrastructure. Well, it's a

new year, but the same old

story for Melbourne's train

system which has again failed

to cope with soaring

temperatures. Angry rail

commuters, and apologetic

Transport Minister, a familiar

story. I hope they fix the

problem. Because of delays

I've been held up for about an hour. Development tycoon

Harry Triguboff argues

skyscrapers are the answer for

people with no time for traffic

jams, his company Meriton built

55,000 new apartments already

along the East Coast, and

thousands more are under

way. They start to value time,

value things. That is why they

want to live in my apartments,

because it's close. Then they

don't have to have a car if

they don't want to, they are

close to all the meanties which

are growing very much. Inner

city high-rise has its limits,

that's seen in denser development, following trains

and tramlines into the suburbs,

as houses made way for

apartment blocks, there's been

angry confrontations. We are

the people.

ALL: We are the people.

Three houses have made way

for units in this leafy

cul-de-sac, and two more homes

are joining resident activist

Dennis Grosvenor's property

will soon be torn down. The

environment you see here is set

for destruction, total

destruction, and I think what

we need to understand is people, whether they live here,

in the outer suburbs, up and

down the coast, this sort of

destruction is coming to a

suburb near you some day. Here

the NSW Government has

overridden local council and

resident objections to more

apartments, some developers

want to go further, even eyeing

off National Parks like those

around Sydney as prime land

crying out for development. Nowhere in the

world do you have parks in the

middle of the city. That's what

we have here, they are huge

parks. If we want the city to

be efficient. We have to make

the parks smallerle Harry makes

a huge contribution to

providing affordable housing.

It's clear where he's coming

from, he'd want 100 million

here, because he'd be building

their apartments. If it's left

to the developers and the mark,

it's more of the same.

Apartments in the inner city

and affluent suburbs, or houses

at the fringe, what is needed

urgently, say planners, is

attractive denser development

in the poorer suburbs, the very

places that developers don't

want to go.that will need Government assistance,

according to urban planner

Professor Bill Randolph. High

density is OK if you are middle

class and have a nice apartment

overlooking the harbour, but if

you are out of work, on a

pension and with two kids in a

unit overlooking the Parramatta

Road life is not so good. We

have to be careful not to build

in some areas vertical

ghettos. Without Government

intervention warns you're gan

planner Dr Jago Dodson, social

disintegration will

increase. We'll see an

increasing polarised city

between areas where the wealthy

live and have access to all

sorts of economic and social

opportunities, and then

contrast to that increasingly

excluded areas where people

don't have good quality public

interest. . There are few job

opportunities available to

them, services and other

important aspects of life

aren't necessarily available. Australia's biggest

population hot spot is along

the eastern coastline, advancing cities placing

immense pressure on local

councils. The tiny seaside

town of Torquay two hours drive

from Melbourne is feeling the

strain as the sprawl from the

regional city of Geelong moves

ever closer. It's really hard

to imagine this place with a

population. I find that hard.

Local Government has a critical

role, it's where the rubber

hits the road around growth,

where we have to provide the

services, infrastructure,

facilities, and houses for the

growth. With thousands more

people likely to descent on

this fragile coastal system

Tawqeet's former Mayor Libby

Meares worries how to preserve

a coastline most take for

granted. We need to understand

the capacity of environments

like coastal environment. I

think there's a tipping point where you lose what actually

people wanted to have in the

first place. To the north the

massive Gold Coast high-rise

canyons of south-east

Queensland provide a spectre of

what is in store for the rest

of the coast. Although now

here, finally, water may force

a limit to growth. That's the

area where you would think and

expect first that water will

pull up economic growth, and economic development with a

thump and say, "No more people

in this area because there's

not enough water here". Matt

Peacock with that report.

Tomorrow we'll examine the

nation's capacity to meet water

and energy needs in the midst

of a population boom. There's

one community in western NSW

that knows all it needs to

about dwindling water, the town

of Lake Cargelligo, used to

stage a huge water festival to

mark Australia Day, drawing

visitors from far and wide. The

town was famously known as

'Oasis of the Outback'. Now

after years of drought, the

huge lake has run dry for the

first time in more than a

century, the community has been

hit hard bus refuses to yield

to the elements. From Lake

Cargelligo, Paul Lockyer


There's a sense of disbelief

in Lake Cargelligo, about what

has happened to their water

playground. Dead fish mark the

shoreline of a like that had

been a huge magnet for tourists

and holiday-makers since the

early days of the last

century. If I can explain it in

a nutshell, people who live on

the coast, if the tide went out

one night, didn't come back

next morning, and you had a

bare seabed, the devastation.

Never thought I would see it

dry. Apparently it was dry back

in 1902, and Mrs Holstrum, when

she was a girl, used to walk

across the lake to school. Gwen

Brown grew up in a thriving

community, now battered by

years of drought. I think everybody in Lake Cargelligo,

when we look out there and see

how that is now, everybody is

extremely disappointed and very sad about it all.

Lake Cargelligo, covering 33

square miles is some 400 miles

due west of Sydney. This is the

Lake Cargelligo Gwen Brown

remembers, flush with water,

and full of fun seekers.

Australia Day was marked by the

'Festival of the Lakes'. One of

the biggest events staged in

country NSW. There was none

bigger than these celebrations

filmed in 1964. They were

really great times, and

everybody had a lot of fun, the

town was thriving in those

days. And there was a big

parade in the morning, that

used to come down the street.

Believe me the floats were

absolutely wonderful. And they

would twist the night away in a

dance that went until dawn. So

you danced all night and skied

all day, did you. Yes. We

started early morning. And we'd

go through until dark. Enid

Pillinger was a champion

waterskier, filmed balancing on

top of this display on

Australia Day We captured you

at the top of the

triangle. Yes, we did have a

few falls. It was great. It

was a prosperous little town,

but it's gone by the way now

with the droughts. But Peter

McFadyen is Astonished at how

resilient the community is

proving to be. If someone said

to me in 2000 that the next eight years you'll have seven

crop failures and still be out

here farming I would have said,

"No, I don't think it will

happen". Peter McFadyen is

determined to keep his farm

going, and the community of

Lake Cargelligo. He's carting

precious water from his dam for

a special cause - to ensure

that a cricket game can go

ahead.He and his brother Ian

have delivered more than

100,000 litres to help prepare

a green strip to honour the

centenary of cricket in Lake Cargelligo. You can't let it

beat you. If they have a chance

to get a turf wicket in the

middle of NSW in a raging

drought I think you should take

the effort, because the boys

enjoy playing on the same

surface as what the Test

cricketers do.

A green patch in the middle

of a dusty obviously. Every

care has been taken by

farmer-come-curator Steven

Brown to produce a flat, true

surface, it's a welcome

distraction for him from the

problems he faces at home. It's

giving me something else to

think about rather than failing

wheat crops and water

diminishing from around the community. Soaring temperatures

and dust storms haven't helped

in the preparation of the

pitch. It's nice and hard on

top now. How does it go with

the key test. Yes. Do you want

help with that. It is hard, there's moisture under

there. It should be a good

batting wicket. There's much

pride at stake, and a place in

the rich history of the Lake

Cargelligo contribution

association. 100 - Cricket

Association, 100 years ago the

locals beat a time by a nearby

Euabalong, a few to be rejoined

today. I'll have a bat. Good

luck. Euabalong won the toss.

But had trouble laying bat to

ball. Steven Brown's pitch

offered good early help to the

bowlers. Yes. The key was to

find the baron outfield. It is

a bit gusty, a bit difficult to

water, you know, 2-3 hectares,

but great if you are a batsman,

if you get it through the

infield, she's four runs very

quickly. Euabalong made over

100 runs from their 20 overs,

it never seemed like it would

be enough. But the fact of the

game being played at all was

more important to the people of

Lake Cargelligo. I mean, we

have a fighting spirit about it

all, and the people are just

wonderful, how they band

together and do things to try

to keep - we have a terrific

community spirit in this town. Well, I think it just shows

the spirit of Australians in

general, but probably being a

bit parochial of people of

inland Australia. The locals

began their run chase solidly,

then started finding the bumpy

boundaries. Powering away to an

easy victory. Here in 2010 after these adverse conditions,

Lake Cargelligo is alive, well

and kicking and hopefully in

100 years time our great-grandchildren will do the

same thing for the bisentenery. Perfect location

for Australia versus the Prime

Minister's XI. Legendary

film-maker Robert Altman

declared Tim Robbins, the

second coming of Orson Wells.

He's carved out his own place

in the film world, catching the

critics eye in a baseball

comedy called 'Bill Durham' 23

years ago, he also met his

partner on that set, Susan

Sarandon, he won an Oscar as

Best support ing actor in

mystic river, and was nominated

for best director of his open

film, 'Dead Man Walking', in

which Susan Sarandon won Best

Actress, the industry was

shocked by the news before

Christmas that Susan Sarandon

and Tim Robbins separated. He's

in Australia for a Sydney Festival performance Thursday

night with a range of other

artists including Marianne

Faithfull, and Peter Garrett

for a one-off concert called

'Rogue's Gallery' produced by

Hal Wilner. I spoke with Tim

Robbins during a break in

rehearsals. What drew you to

'Rogue's Gallery'. Hal Wilner,

he's a friend, he and I first

met at Saturday Night Live many

years ago, when I hosted it,

and he walked on Robert

Altman's films, so I met him

through that. He swept me up

one day, said, "Come on, we'll

go to Europe and do these

shows", I said, "Hell yes", I

love Hal, I thing he's

supertalented pted producer and visionary, and he's done a real

service, I think, to all of us

by these albums that he put out

of the 'Rogue's Gallery', and

the pirate sea chanties, he

unearthed songs that were gone. It's something to consider,

because music can die, you

know. In a lot of ways it's

more a tradition, and there's

some written down, but who is

singing the tune from

generation to generation

SONG: # One day this poor boy

# Nothing turned as I say

# When I rushed

# To my frozen yard

# And I kept him there

# Till the next day #

These songs are all about the

people that didn't make it into

the history books It's not

about Captain Cook, but the guy

down below swathing the deck

and being whipped. Those are

really important stories to

continue telling, it's like

Pete Seigert said, we are links

in a chain. If I can connect

one generation to the next

generation, that's my job as a

storyteller, that I can - if I

can take 10 songs that were

never heard when I was young,

and find them, and introduce

them to a new generation so they survive for another

however many years, that is,

you know, that's a real social

responsibility to be able to

continue the life of the

music. When you set out on a

film career, what was your

ambition. Despite all your successes, you haven't been a

studio player, have you, and

you certainly haven't played

the Hollywood game, you were

part of a film that set it up savagely. I wouldn't say we

were too nice to them. That was

'The Player'. Yes, I have

avoided that. I guess I'm - I

guess I get bored, you know,

with that kind of movie. I'm

not doing too well with them.

The big action things. I need

more story. And it's not that I

won't do them, it's just they

haven't presented themselves,

and I've had very interesting

things presented to me. How

important was 'Bill Durham' to

you. It was very important t

opened up a lot of

possibilities in my career, and

really - it was the first time

I was offered films to star in.

After that. Now take it off.


(Laughing). Can you remember

the feeling you felt as you

walked away and realised you

scored with it. I didn't know

that until it came out. We knew

we had a good time making

it. Can you remember the

feeling? Yes, I remember that

feeling of, "Life is changing,

this is going to be different

now". Where are you right now

in your film career, and I

don't mean what film are are

you doing next, more what stage

of the journey are you at? I'm

in a phase where I don't want

to work for the sake of

working. It has to be

interesting, it has to be

compelling. I have enough money

so I don't need to work. I know

what I want to do, is to find

what gives me joy, and one of

the ways I found joy over the

past few years because you

can't be doing movies all the

time is music, and to be able

to be on the road with a movie

I was doing and to be able to

walk into a blues club with a

guitar and being invited up to

play with people - that can

happen anywhere. You don't need

a multi-million Budget, you

don't need the OK from a

studio, someone telling you

it's OK to tell your story, here's money to tell your

story, you can do it any day of

the week, in any place. For me

that was liberating, once I

discovered that, that you can

get great joy by something that

is completely motivated and by

your own actions. Your two most

awarded films was 'Dead Man

Walking', and 'Mystic

River'. Yes. But what has been

your favourite. What are you

proudest of? I'm proudest of a

film called 'Cadable Rock', I

don't think it was released in

Australia. I wonder why, it

has a lot of great actors in

it. That was another political

film. It's a story about art,

and what it is to be able toex

press yourself in a free

political, it's certainly about society. I don't know if it's

culture, and it's about the

politics, there's a certain

thing about the politics of the

time. For me it was about that

woman that stands up in that

theatre to sing her song. That

was that moment in that - you

know, in the story of what does

it take, what kind of courage

does it take, do you have to

risk your entire life, your

livelihood, your job in order

to express yourself, and in

that one moment in time that

one woman doing that for me was

a great inspiration. How important was the Oscar for

you, because on the one hand

you haven't played the game. On

the other hand there it

is. It's hard to deny Listen, I

would rather have it.. When I

won it it was, "That's a

relief, now I don't have to

worry about that any more". I

was honoured, you know, it was

a great night. I was happy to

win for that film and happy to

win with my friend Shaun. It

was nice. That was one of the

most nervous things. My award

was the first of the night, his

was one of the last. I'm

looking over at him going,

"God, if this is a long night

if he doesn't win", it will be

no fun at all. It was good, it

was fun. 'Dead Man Walking'

underscores one aspect of what

has been a very successful 23

year personal and professional

partnership with Susan Sarandon, I can understand and

respect why you might not want

to talk about the break-up, but

it's been such an unusually

enduring relationship by film

industry standards, hasn't it?

It must be doubly hard when two

lives are so intensely

interwoven for so long. Yes. We

did a good job though. We

raised some good kids. I read

that. Friends, particularly,

saying what a great job you did

as parents. Yes. But it's

throughout our relationship, I

never have talked about it

publicly. I felt it was always

something that you have to

respect, and not treat as part

of the whole business, and the

whole idea of celebrity. I

thought - and I was pretty

strong about keeping them

separate so I think I'll do

that in this period as

well. Then this is the only

other question I'm going to

ask. Have you been able to

retain a friendship. Yes. An

enduring friendship. Mm. One

assumes you have plenty of film

and stage opportunity ahead. Do

you have any big burning ambitions left, something that

you want to do that you haven't

really done. I suspect the

answer may relate to

music. Yes. I want to go around

the world. I want to tour. My

son is 17. He's in his final

year of high school. He'll be

heading off to college. So I

don't really have the tie of -

I don't have the responsibility

as much as I did in the past of

being home. It should be an

interesting period this coming

5-6 years. Are you taking - a

have you taken a walk around

the Opera House . No, I haven't. It's beautiful. We

were talking about that, how

beautiful the architecture is,

trying to figure out how it was

conceived. But yes, I'm happy

to be doing this. It's a fun

night too. There's all kinds of

different kinds of sea

shanties, there's romantic

ones, there's ones about

whipping young boys to death.

There's one about some

definited sexuality. It's all

kinds of fun. You name it. You

try being on a ship for five

months. You better come up with

good ditties. Or be fast on

your feet. Tim Robbins, thanks

for talking with us. My

pleasure, thanks. There's a

longer verse of that interview

going on the website if you are

interested. That's the program

for tonight, join us tomorrow

for part 3 of the population

growth series, focussing on

water and energy. For now,