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49 Up -

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(generated from captions) LIVELY 1960s THEME MUSIC I'm going to work in Woolworths. I want to be an astronaut. When I grow up I'd like two children. When I get married is to see my daddy. My heart's desire I don't want to answer that. to the zoo, NARRATOR: This is no ordinary outing it's a very special occasion. for the very first time. We've brought these children together

They're like any other children startlingly different backgrounds. except that they come from Stop being so rough! We've brought these children together of England in the year 2000. because we wanted a glimpse and the executive of the year 2000 The shop steward are now seven years old. In 1964, World in Action made '7 Up' MICHAEL APTED: these children every seven years. and we've been back to film They are now 49. Yes. Is it important to fight? in the East End of London. Tony was brought up

yeah, I wanna be a jockey. I wanna be a jockey when I grow up, At 14, he was already an apprentice at Epsom. at Tommy Gosling's racing stable At 15, he'd left school. when I rode at Newbury. This is a photo finish I'm the one with the white cap. off third and I had a photo finish. I was beaten a length and a half Do you regret not making it? at the time to become a jockey I'd have given my right arm well, I wasn't good enough. but now... if you don't make it as a jockey? What will you do be one I'd get out of the game. I don't know. If I know I couldn't Not bother. What do you think you would do then? Learn on taxis. and by 28 he owned his own cab. At 21, he was on The Knowledge, you see... It's surprising who you pick up, I once met Kojak, I picked him up, Alf Garnett, you know. and Warren Mitchell, Have you got a girlfriend? No. Would you like to have a girlfriend? No. Find 'em, feed 'em and forget 'em. You understand the four Fs... your own discriminish. The other F, I'll let you use But, I mean, this one... but I couldn't forget her. I tried to do the three Fs he was in the pub earlier on I went to a discotheque... we went to a discotheque and afterwards and Tony was standing there that was it. and I just, from there, I just...

Couldn't get rid of him. No more than anyone else. We have our ups and downs. at a marriage. I think you gotta work go through stages, I think all marriages you can't stand each other. You go through, you know... I wish he'd get out." I do. I think "Oh God, I hate him, and looked over a couple of times We've been to the edge of the cliff to sort of go back and we've always seemed the course and we've sort of stayed it's not easy being married. but I must say, I mean, had left the East End By 42, Tony and Debbie and moved to Woodford in Essex. a conservatory here We were going to put but if you look along here, and the pond for the fish we put a patio in was I planted them three trees. but the only thing I ever done Michael, Well, since you was last here, we had small trees if you remember. Now they've sort of grown a bit. So why are the trees singed?

the back and set alight to the tree We was burning some rubbish at throwing buckets of water over it and there we all were sort of, like, it singed the tree. and sadly enough a second mortgage on the London house At 49, they'd taken out in a holiday home in Spain. and sunk the money I'm very pleased with the house.

time we've had to work here The progress we made in the little and get it all shipshape, to the testament of my wife Debbie. I think is down really As per usual. to the furniture shop Well, Debbie went all the furniture. and she sort of picked is Debbie's choice of furniture It's all, what you see, and her, really, sort of style. that we had a choice of tiling The floor, we were led to believe or, you know, light brown. whether it's a light beige a choice, cos I would've had plain. That's the first I've heard we had and they've got plain. I've just gone into the neighbour's I never got told that. There you go, when we suggested to buy it And he said it was a choice we had the mistake was made. so that was where Say that again. Because you don't listen. Can't hear you. (Chuckles) You don't listen. as London cabbies. Tony and Debbie still work spend more time out here We sold our cabs because we're gonna to own a cab, is it? so it's not really conducive on the drive Because the cab will be left out or, you know, it's pointless, independently now. so we just hire the cab than what I really ever have done I'm working harder now but I feel that it's for something. why do you wanna be a cab driver? Tell me, son, but, son, it's hard work out there. All the holidays in Spain every year You're not getting to me. All right? You're not reaching me yet. dominate me, all right? Now, be bigger, Tony was taking acting lessons. At 28, with occasional TV jobs. Now he supplements his income Oi! That's all I got on me. I heard that, I'd be rich. Mate, if I'd a pound for every time Get him! from my acting agency, A guy contacted me from my agency, and he writes plays and I got in touch with him by your 'Up' programs and he's been inspired and he saw it which go all round the world, and we got together all about my life story. and we wrote a biographical play and done it on a play reading We took one episode to New York playing the lead role, you know, and I got up,

and it just blew the roof off to pick it up and put it on stage. and we're looking for someone sit round, get on with their work? TEACHER: Would everybody please I don't want to see any backs to me. Tony, do you hear as well? Shouldn't be anybody turning round. Get on with your work in front. Tony! Don't turn round again. and really, I want a baby son There's only one ambition and if I see my baby son that will be my ambition fulfilled. No one knows that, only you now. Debbie and Tony have three children, Nicky... Jodie... and Perry. Nicky's doing quite well, he's still a French polisher. And it's an old-time profession, as you know, and he's working for a firm and he's very happy in his work, isn't he?

He's been brought up very respectful to people, very well-mannered person, he's a hard worker. Jodie, I mean, at this present time, she just relies on us a great deal and um...

She's been very scarred with a relationship that she was in. Her relationship with the first love of her own life is very turbulent but he's the father of her kid. I'm gonna make sure she gets through it and it's been quite a strain on Debbie and I to see her in that sort of situation. I'm very proud of Perry as well. She got in the Post Office and that's what's she doing, Postman Pel, that's our Postman Pel. She loves it, she works hard, she's up at four in the morning. She's got a lovely boyfriend, he loves her more than you can imagine and he's certainly got my blessing. Big lad, very nice guy, loves his football, you know,

typical East End kid. Argh! Head up, son. Too quick. We are the backbone for the kids, aren't we, they are... Yeah, but I think your parents are anyway. Your parents are... You never visualise anything ever happening to your parents, do you? You think they're there forever.

Toni's five, Harry's four, nearly five, and little Pru, she's nearly two. No, three. She's three. I'm a hands-on granddad. I love my grandchildren more than, you can imagine, I'd say not my own kids, but in a different way, it's an obsession of love, you know.

You see these grandchildren and they're part of you. They're hard work... at times. We don't mind though, Michael... Cos you slow down and you don't realise you're slowing down. All I understand is dogs' prices, girls, knowledge of roads, streets, squares, and Mum and Dad and love. That's all I understand, that's all I want to understand.

By the time he was 35, both Tony's parents had died. I'm at the graveside, I'm talking to her, little things. I've got all images running through me mind, saying like, "Tony, go downstairs and get me five weights", you know, one and a penny, and I used to go in the shop, she used to throw the cotton in an hair curler over the landin' and I used to tie the cigarettes on this bit of cotton and she'd pull 'em up and she goes, I see her in the end, (inhales) "Thanks, Tone, see you after school, be good." And that's the way it was.

We knew my dad was terminally ill, although having said that, still didn't make it any easier for us. When my dad died I took it really hard... I can't... (Cries) Nellie Rose is my mum, as her name is now... and her mother's name's Rose so my Jodie and all the family were conjuring up some names that we could name it. Jodie at the finish said "Nellie Rose", the name of our mums. Sometimes on a Saturday morning I go to the pictures,

sometimes with my friends, sometimes with him. You don't. I do! She don't. And why did you fall in love with him? Dunno. I don't know how you put up with me for so long. Sometimes I don't know how I stand him. Who's to say, in another 10 years me and him might have split up. Quite possible. You don't know. When we filmed Debbie and Tony at 42, the marriage seemed to be in trouble.

I'm not proud at all to say this but situations arise that... I have, have had regretful behaviour at various times but through... You got caught... and that was it.

That's, you know, I'm not lying about the fact, you know. I mean, you could always cover it up and suggest other things but, you know, it's true and let it be true. You caught him? Yeah. What happened? Well, you know, it was touch and go whether we carried on from it or not... I did feel, you know, I wish things that were said then was never said. I mean, Perry wouldn't go to school for three weeks. She wouldn't go out the door, she was quite upset about it and... you know, and I think it was a big shock because... you know, you are their mum and dad. They're tangerines, ain't they? You know, we got on from there,

it's seven years down the line and we're happy as can be now. Karen told me to get me knickers here. She said they're better than Marks & Spencers. (Laughs) Let's hope they're easier to get off. There's 96% English here who bought all their houses in Spain and this is where they shop every Saturday. It's just like an old Petticoat Lane market, sort of years ago. How much is all that, darling? Cuanto cuesto? What I like, it's so relaxing down here, Michael. You just walk along and things are happening, music's playing, there's an English pub you can just go in and it's really home from home, but with the weather. From here, it's about 200 yards along, there's going to be all commercial units here. My intention would be to turn it, one of these units into a sports bar. We're putting all tellies round in a sports sort of way, football shirts and all that, memorabilia. This is tomorrow for me, this is my future here. If I happen to get some sort of business, and I was to bring my Nicky or bring my Jodie and my Perry out here, then I'll have the best of both worlds, I'll have my family here, plus the kids could be schooled. Well, they can get what they want, can't they? If you all gotta work for it and they can just ask for money and get it and buy what they want. I feel that the economy will bust within five years because people like myself have been giving and giving all the time, hard-working family type of people who have contributed everything under this Tony Blair's government. We have to work, maintain the mortgage, we have to bring up the families and I feel that I've had enough, enough of working all these hours. Congestion charges, ?40 a week now, zero tolerance with the police with parking tickets. We're paying... Now someone's getting it at our expense. Does it make you sad that you'll have to leave your roots, your country? I can't even go out in the East End now to have a drink. The pubs are literally closing down. It's... other cultures are buying all my old tradition up. Everyone likes their own culture and I'm no different from anybody else but being in England, if you suggest this, you are targeted as, you know, an oddball or, "Oh, you mustn't say that." Safety by numbers, eh? Definitely. On the contrary, I'd say I'm sorry, if you don't like it, it's not to be offensive, it's just to let you know that my way of being brought up was all my own people and I like being with my own people and I'm a traditionalist. How much you want play for? Fiver? 10 pesetas. Fore! What's the dream now? Is to be happy, which I am... I'm happy now being healthy, with all my family. We all want happy and health for our family, anything else is a bonus, and that's all I really want and that's all I'm really after. No more or less than that. Oh! Unlucky, Tone.

Unlucky. Some people from Africa come here but they, when they go, they put their clothes on.

Jackie, Lynn and Sue all grew up in the East End of London and were friends in the same junior school. With this school, we do metalwork and woodwork, and the boys do cookery. We had a teacher at school that... his favourite ploy was... all you girls want to do is walk out, get married, have babies and push a pram down the street with a fag hanging outside your mouth.

I think we all could have gone any way we wanted to at the time within our capabilities. I mean, we just, we chose our own jobs... But we only had a limited choice anyway, truth be told.

I mean, we didn't have the choice of private education because they couldn't have afforded it. The change is too much, Mike. far too much... all of us. To be honest, when you look at the seven-year-old us, it's difficult to believe it is us. I mean, it's like it's someone else you're looking at, this little cute thing. I can't remember being... Well, I wasn't cute. I would like to get married when I grow up. But I don't know what sort of boy but I think one that um... that's not got a lot of money but he has got some money, not a lot. Have you got any boyfriends?

Um... That's personal, innit? By the time she was 21 Jackie had married Mick and moved to the outskirts of London. It was horrific, really, what happened to the wedding cake. I mean, it was sitting right in between Mick and myself and suddenly the columns just completely gave way and it just all sort of fell into one. I would say on average 19 is probably too young. By 35, she was divorced. We decided ourselves, I mean, just between the two of us, we knew it wasn't going any further. We both knew that at the end of the day we'd be happier leading our own lives.

She and Mick had decided early on that they didn't want children.

Basically I would say because I'm far too selfish. I enjoy doing what I want, when I want and how I want and certainly at the moment, I can't see any way around that.


And... this one on, here we go. Oh, yeah! Had a brief but very sweet relationship, the result of which was Charlie. Oi, give us a cuddle. I don't really want Charlie to be an only, I'd love him to have brothers and sisters but not necessarily loads of them. (Laughs) Just one would do, actually. Right, Charlie, there's yours. Please, eat it all up. And James. Thanks, Mum. Good boy. And last but not least... Gonna eat that one for me? After her relationship with Charlie's father ended, she met Ian, and they moved to Scotland and had two more sons. James... By 42, they had split up. Lee!

Go on, Lee, go and get 'em. At 49, despite the split,

the family all live in the same area of Scotland.

There's your dad! Lee and Charlie's birthdays are only a month apart, so we tend to do something in between to celebrate both birthdays. So we usually go somewhere like an amusement park. That Lee's got a lot of nerve, hasn't he?

And a bit of bravado, I think. Because his older brothers had said no, I think he decided, I'm gonna do this one. Yaaayyy!

Has Charlie shown any interest as to his father? No. Ian's his father, as far as he's concerned. He knows and the others know, the whole family know that biologically he's not, but in every respect Ian is his father, always has been. He's just done everything with him, been everything to him, taught him everything. What would you do if you had lots of money, about um... ?2?

I would buy meself a new house, you know, one that's all nice and comfy. Ooh, quite like that! Jackie suffers from rheumatoid arthritis and lives off disability benefit. How is money for you? Could do with more, as just about everybody would say. But we manage, we cut our cloth accordingly. You've got X amount and that's what you do. And has Liz got anything to do with that? Liz has always got something to do with that. Ian's her son but she also says that I'm here and she's got three grandchildren here that she loves dearly and she will be there for us. James has just had a trip to Alton Towers with the school.

Suddenly she'll say, you pay the trip, I'll give him his spending money

which is brilliant because it just makes life easier for me. You've moved in the last seven years. Tell me about that. Because of the arthritis that I've got, I needed to come to the ground floor.

And this particular area I'm in now, is an area I like. It's close to Liz, my mother-in-law, so from that point of view it's... it suits. The school's across the road for the boys, good neighbours, which makes a difference wherever your property is. It's how the East End used to be about 30 years ago. Doors used to be open, neighbours all watched for each other. If one neighbour had a problem, others helped. That's how it is here. That's what this place is like, it's like a village. 80, 85... We deal with problems with the boys as and when they arise. I mean, you've always got the problem of drink and drugs and smoking and not smoking and, you know, that sort of thing. I mean, Charlie's of an age now where I can't mother him but I can't be his friend either. He wants to work, he wants to leave school and get an apprenticeship to car mechanics but the chances of him doing that are probably very slim. Hey, somebody's stealing my chips. Lee, you'll make yourself ill. Okay. James tends to be a bit of a computer freak. He wants to produce and make his own games. Lee tends to be, like, the outspoken one and a bit like I was at his age, really. In fact, he's very much like I was at his age. Is that a worry? I think that's terrible! How dare you say that to me, is that a worry? Why would that be a worry? Do you think I've turned out badly? No, but sometimes, looking at yourself, you don't always see things you like, then you see them in your child... I don't... yeah, but I never said he'd picked up all my traits. I actually think he's picked up probably the best. (Lee grizzles) If you're not gonna play nicely, go to bed, then. He has a temper that isn't as bad as when he was younger but it is something that he knows about and he tries very hard to control. Does your temper get you into trouble? You're probably the best one to answer that. Does it? I mean, you and I have had arguments on occasions. Did you meet enough men before you decided who to marry? I mean, what do you mean by settle down? If you think that getting married, as far as we're concerned, is a case of going to work, come home, cook tea for hubby, going to bed, getting up, going to work, you're totally mistaken. I like it when you shout at me. I'm not sure you do, really. I don't know! What happened at 21? You asked me if I'd had enough experience with men before I got married, and I thought that was actually an insulting question and I got very angry and we actually stopped filming because of it and if you look at the tapes of me at 21, I'm sitting... and to all intents and purposes, I might as well have not been there. But I was really angry that you even thought you could get... You wouldn't have asked some of the other people in this program that question. You will edit this program as you see fit. I've got no control over that. You definitely come across as, this is your idea of what you want to do

and how you see us, and that's how you portray us. This one, maybe, may be the first one that's about us rather than about your perception of us. So how, up to now, have I got you wrong? How have you got me wrong? The last one was very much based on... the sympathy and, and the illness that I've got and what I may or may not be able to do. It shouldn't... it should have been about what I CAN do, what I AM doing, what, what I WILL do. Don't make that mistake, Mike. I am no way... I am down and I am depressed about my illness but I'm certainly not down and depressed about my life. A lot of the times I sit and cringe when I watch those programs, not just for me but for other people. You can ask me about Ian and you know full well I'm gonna say to you it's none of your business. There are people in this program that don't do that, that quite, of their own free will, will talk about their marriages or their divorces or the state of their lives, but I don't think you should be into that. I don't think you should even be asking that. It's part of people's lives and this program is about people's lives. No... Yeah, but that's... See, that part of my life will never go on this program. You know I've married, my ex-husband never took part in this, my partner now will never take part in this. But that's not my fault. No. But that's because that's the way I want it. But it still doesn't stop you trying to get that information from me. So what would you like to talk about if you want me to represent you? We've talked a bit about the children.

What I want to do. What I hope to do. I just don't want... that personal conversation. Okay, let's talk about what you hope to do, what you hope for the boys. What I hope to do... I'd actually... I'd like to go back to school... so that I can hold a conversation with anybody in the world and know what I'm talking about. So that I'm not stuck... "Well, I know a bit about that but not enough." I'd love to know... Actually, I'd really love to start my education all over again. My mum, cos she's got five girls, she had seven, seven years' bad luck. That's why she's got five girls. I'd like to be able to have a happy family, I mean, I know that's not possible to be happy all the time but as much of the time that was possible. I don't know what Suzie's had, what Suzie had that I haven't had. Until I know that... Are you different from what I should have expected at 7 or 14 or 21? Maybe not enough, but I've got it. I think I'm actually more intelligent than you thought I'd be. I have reached a level... in my life that I'm happy with and I enjoy doing, being, I enjoy being me. But I don't think you ever really expected me to turn out the way I have. How was that, Lee? Great!

If we did all love Geoffrey and we all want to marry, I think I know the one that he likes best, and that's her. I don't think I'd... get married too early. I'd like to have a full life first... I'd like to enjoy myself before I... Yeah, before you commit yourself to a family. Marriage means a different thing to me, I've still got my ideals. Sue was 24 when she married Billy. They had two children, William and Catherine. I think that to get married young, there must be things that you miss. You must miss that crucial stage of being yourself because the minute you get married, you're no longer a single being, you're a partnership and that should be the idea behind it. By the time she was 35 she and Billy had divorced. I've never sat down and thought, um, what was it? Was it this, was it that? I just knew it wasn't working. There have been relationships when I could've settled but they didn't feel quite right, so... I've always come away and pulled away and just waited until the right one come along... if they ever do. (Sue sings) # Don't you remember you told me you love me, baby... # At 42, when we filmed Sue in the karaoke bar she brought Glen along to watch her sing. # Baby, baby, baby, oh, baby... # We'd just met and things were going well but now obviously things are going very well. Is this love? Oh, I think so, yeah. We've known each other for a long, long time before the seven years, and we've always, always liked each other. He's good looking. Very good looking, not bad, is he? Everyone says he looks like... Paul Weller. Whether that's true, specially now he's growing his hair. Susan most of all likes Lesley. Do I? You said. She keeps changing her mind though. Yeah, don't know which one, really. Everything's not that cut and dried. It's not either a career or family or... but it's what's in the middle. Am I just gonna carry on as I am now and end up on the shelf? Or am I just gonna get married? Could be any day. I've been married and I've not got that urgency. Glen, we sort of say maybe we will. We're engaged, you know, we're committed, we've bought a house together and to me, that's a big commitment.

Every house needs money spending on it when you move in. To have a wedding, you've gotta put some cash into it. When I got married, the primary reason was because I wanted a child. The two, to me, went together. Have you and Glen thought of having your own child? Well, Glen got with me when... we got together, I should say, when I was in my 40s and you don't have a baby when you've just started a relationship.

I didn't want to do all that again, I would've loved a baby with... because he would make a wonderful parent, but the timing was off. So she's your baby? She's my new baby, yeah. My kids are my babies but she's my new baby. She's our baby, mine and Glen's. She's a wonderful terrier, she's got such character. What does she do? Well, she watches TV... with us. Got her own favourite programs, you know. THEME FROM 'ANIMAL HOSPITAL' And she adores Rolf Harris, absolutely adores 'Animal Hospital', and if she's at the top of the house and the music comes on, she runs downstairs and puts herself in front of the TV for Rolf Harris.

The house looks nice. Are you pleased with it? I am very pleased with it, it's a lovely step for us, you know. We feel like we've got more space around us and we've got to do everything inside but we can build on it and that's what we want. I've been promising to have a house-warming party since we've moved in.

We've been here four months so it's about time, so people are just starting to arrive now. So you left the East End. Why? Well, I've always wanted to move out but you don't do that, or the opportunity isn't there, when you're on your own with two kids. I wish I'd done it before, but it's timing, you know. Now was the right time, obviously. And the East End has changed a lot.

Mum comes down, it's so easy for them. They can jump on a train and the station's within walking distance so it's worked out wonderfully well. Some people are just born into rich families, they're lucky. I don't see why they should have the luck when people work all their lives and haven't got half as much. It just don't seem fair.

So have you moved up a class now? That's difficult to say. Up a class... I suppose it feels like that to me. Now you've got the sense of pride, you've got your own house, I feel like I'm building for the future. I've been a single parent for a long while. I've brought them up on my own, really, because Catherine was only two when Bill left. It's been extremely hard and it's been... sometimes it's been very lonely. I only had to have one filling, that's the only thing I had done. William's... he's a computer addict, he works in the industry and he also constantly has a computer on indoors. He could have gone to university and he knows that and I know that and I do regret that for him but I've been there, I can just remember, you know, I didn't want to do that either. And Catherine's temping because she wants to do a bit of travelling next year. People say she's me reincarnated. I mean, she looks a bit like me and her mannerisms are exactly like me... and she likes to enjoy herself. To walk into a relationship with someone who's got two teenagers,

it must've been very difficult for him, and they do clash occasionally. I absolutely hate it because I'm just an easygoing person and I don't like strife. They're doing things the way I've brought them up which isn't the way that Glen would like things done so you've got to learn to live together in the same house. It'll always be, it'll always be a learning curve, I'm a peace-maker. When the children were old enough to go to school,

Sue went back to work and had a series of office jobs. She now helps run the MA courses in the Legal Faculty of the University of London. I still work for the college but we moved to central London. Now I'm sort of the main administrator for the program instead of an assistant, and I've got a couple of people that help me. Could you fax that to Mary for me, please? Thanks. So you like the responsibility? Yeah, I love the responsibility. I think I was born for the responsibility. Yeah, I love it. I've never been abroad. Nor have I. I have. Oh, yeah, you went on that cruise. Yeah. Once a year we go to Cornwall or Devon. We try to find a different spot every year and we bring the dog. It's just such a lovely place. Every time you turn a corner there's a different sight, a different, you just never know what you're gonna find, everything... everything's just so beautiful. We both had childhood holidays here and good memories and we decided to come back and we've been coming ever since. It's nice for us just to be a couple for a week. When we retire, or maybe before if we get lucky, then this is the sort of place we'd like to come to.

That little one there, right in the middle nearest the beach, that would be ideal, absolute perfect, the perfect place. Oh, that was a good one. (Recites Latin phrases) Yes, speak up. Fill out the gaps on the board. When he was seven, Bruce was at a preparatory boarding school. At 14, St Paul's in London. They don't sort of enforce being upper class and things like that at St Paul's, you know. They suggest you don't have long hair and they do get it cut if... and um... they teach you to be reasonably well-mannered but not to sniff on the poorer people.

By 21, he was in his last year at Oxford reading Maths. You can show that this is irreducible, then you do a transformation on this polynomial sequence... T plus 2. Good, that's a nice way of doing it, particularly using Eisenstein here. His test is very powerful.

(Calls roll) Yes, sir. At 28, Bruce was teaching maths in East London. Well, I'll go into Africa and try and teach people who are not civilised to be more or less good.

At 35, he was teaching in Sylhet in northern Bangladesh. I've also got the chance to learn a bit of Bangla which is very difficult, not doing very well at. TEACHER: Bangladesh, Bangladesh. Bangladesh. Bangladesh. Before you do anything you have to make sure... By 42, Bruce was back in the East End running the maths department at a girls' school. After nought hours, it would be 60 litres. CHOIR SINGS At 49, he's teaching at St Albans, a large boys' independent school which has girls in the sixth form. I sing in the choir, that happens twice a week, on Mondays and Fridays we go over to the Abbey because in the early days, the school was in the abbey going back to 948. 948? Yes, so the head quite likes to say, we're in our third millennium, you know. So the school's over a thousand years old? Yes, in one form or another. Now, you have to make X the subject of this equation, so what do we do? Multiply both sides by three. You don't multiply... ALL: Divide by three. Tell me, then, what's exciting about teaching here for you? There is a higher academic level to teach and then you can see pupils at a more developed level, that flash of recognition, and then engendering their love of the subject that I had at their age. There is a class society and I think public schools may help its continuance. So you're in the lead, you see, because... Has it been a kind of compromise of political principles for you, this? Well, I would say have a million angels in front of every teacher who's prepared to slog away at an inner city comprehensive. Make way, this is somebody who's prepared to turn up each day and do that job. Where's the graph? STUDENT: 60. 60, right. So when the tank is full... That motto, water weareth away a stone by dripping upon it, not by smashing it, was, as a motto for teaching, that you kept on teaching them and that eventually it would get through and the pupils would change and learn and develop, and so on. But I think in the end the reverse happened. That water dripping on me wore me away. I just thought, I don't think I can do this till I'm 60 and therefore I'll have to do something else. Do your old friends give you a hard time about what you've done? They certainly do, they absolutely do. They say oh, you know, have we joined the Tory party,

the golf club, the Masons, you know...

You're driving a much better car than you used to and so on. Well, my girlfriend is in Africa

and I won't, I don't think I'll have another chance of seeing her again. Have you got any girlfriends? No, no, not yet. I'm sure it will come but not yet. I mean, I do think a lot of people think too much about it. I think I would very much like to... oh, become involved in a family, my own family for a start. That's a need that I feel I ought to fulfil and would like to fulfil and would do it well. Yes, I haven't got married or whatever and I was supposing, you know, that would've been something which I hoped had happened. You're getting on a bit. Are you getting worried?

Well, not particularly. I mean, I'm always optimistic. Who knows who I might meet tomorrow? And in the middle of a conversation about something completely different, he just asked if... if I'd like to marry him. If I hadn't been listening carefully I'd have missed it completely.

To love and to cherish... Till death us do part. Is this a beetroot or something? I think it's just a weed. Do you enjoy gardening? Um... Well, under Penny's directions... I do whatever she asks me. I don't know what to do here, what order to do things in. She and her mother are quite good at this. So you're the labourer? Yes, I'm the unpaid labourer, the serf, the feudal vassal-lord... but Penny will give you the correct medieval terms. We don't argue very much. Not really, I mean, we haven't really had a sort of full-blown row. Arguments sort of tend to be two sentences, then I go off and sulk for 24 hours. How are you doing, dear? Fine, thank you. I think one positive influence on him, I've stopped him apologising. When I first knew him, he kept saying "Sorry, sorry" and apologised for all sorts of things that there was no need to apologise for. Maybe it's just cos we weren't married then. See, I was winning you over. Yeah, that's right. You're the world's greatest cook. Ah. It's only pasta, can't go far wrong... If you have emotional issues, would you talk about them? Well, I have the usual male reticence about that kind of thing. Great tea. If Penny really wanted to give me a hard time, she'd have to say "Talk about your feelings", you know. That would be worse than a 24-hour sulk, you know. I think so, yeah. I don't know whether... We may have children, I don't know. I mean, if in seven years' time or so we're living in a slightly bigger house with a young family, that would be nice. I mean, I don't want to pin all my hopes on it and nothing happens. We are quite old. I can see bringing up, say, teenage children in your 50s might be a bit strange. Come on then, Henry, get on. Is it more tiring than you thought? I don't think until you're doing it you realise how sleep deprived you get and how totally exhausted you are all the time for several years.

I think that came as rather a shock. Sometimes I go to bed at 8.30, which is ridiculous. In fact, I sometimes go to bed before Henry and George.

He looks like his father, doesn't he? Um... George has got the cheekbones that run in Bruce's family. I wonder what I got? Ah... Ooh... That's hard to answer, darling. Right, left...

We're at my first school where I was from about five to eight. Um... and this is where I boarded for three years. (Continues to give orders) I can remember being happy there. I can remember also being miserable because I can remember crying. And I always seemed to be beaten, I never used to understand why. You were here because what, your parents were... My parents were separated and were divorced and just to give me a stable place to be and be educated. It was a solution to all those problems. My heart's desire is to see my daddy who is 6000 miles away. I did miss contact with my father. And... well, I say it as a joke to Penny, you know, "Time to send them boarding", as I was, and she says "Over my dead body", which is... but I wouldn't want that either. Five years ago, the family moved away from the East End to be near Bruce's new school. It's very quiet, it's child-friendly and it just feels very safe and that's really important when you've got small children,

that the area feels safe.

And what can you give them that you didn't have? Contact with a father that is loving and they can realise that, and show that love to other people and realise when they're letting both themselves and me down. That could be a sort of guiding light for them. Do you want any more children? (Chuckles softly) Well... Bruce was originally talking about a cricket team. Um... But he's got his opening batsmen and that I think, is going to be his lot, frankly. And when you play tomorrow, I'm not gonna drop you from sarcasm, right? I run one of the junior teams here, the under-13s... and there'll be nearly 200 boys there doing that on a Saturday rather than other things that could waylay them.

It's that combination of playing within a team and the ability to back each other up and form friendships that's... that's such a nice thing.

At weekends Bruce plays village cricket. We don't really mind who wins and loses. We obviously prefer to win and, you know, we go on tour every year, so we go down to Devon. Such a nice bunch of mates and I've known some for 25 years. You can play at a reasonable level till you're in your 60s. And what about your batting skills? I'm mainly a bit of a slogger so I tend to bat down the order, six, seven, eight. It can be brief, but the last time I played, I got 50.


Okay... "From their hiding place in the bushes, William..." Do you have fears for the future? Personally, I kind of worry that the boys will turn out all right. I hope they avoid drugs. To see them sleeping or carry them around is just fantastic and just the smell of them and the look of them is just... you just want to protect them from everything that's harmful to them. When you look back at yourself at seven, can you see you now? I can't really recognise myself. He looks a little bit lost and a little bit sad and I think I'm quite sort of surprised to be sort of contented and reasonably happy. Do you have a dream? Well, I would probably like to have played international cricket but I just wasn't good enough. You know, one's dreams go in the day-to-day living of ordinary life and family life takes over. I think, I think we just sort of live without our dreams.

out for nothing. When he was seven, Paul was in care in a children's home in London. Were you happy at the children's home in England? I didn't mind that really cos we didn't know what was going on, cos we were a bit young. Well, as far as I know, my mother and father got...

well, they separated originally, I think. Um... they eventually got divorced. I went to the boarding school for one year and then we emigrated to Australia. Paul settled with his father and stepmother in a suburb of Melbourne. What mark has it left on you,

the fact you were brought up within a bad marriage? The only thing I can say that I think might've come from that is just my lack of confidence and being able to show my feelings, really, I suppose. Would you like to get married, Paul? No. Tell me why not. I don't like um... Say you had a wife... They, they... say you had to eat what they cooked you and say I don't like greens, well, I don't. I know I prefer to be alone really. I can't say I don't want to get married cos I think I do but I want to be happily married, and therefore I want to make sure. you fell in love with?

His helplessness, I suppose. It was the motherly instinct in me to pick him up and cuddle him. He's also very good looking, I think, but he doesn't agree. And in summer, he's got this cute little bum in shorts. I can tell quite a few stories here but the one that irritates me most is when we have an argument, he says "That's it, leave me." And I say "Fine, right, I will one day." We had our 20th wedding anniversary this last, just before Christmas. Which is the life sentence. Yeah. Everyone reckons we should be out of jail by now. To a certain extent, we started thinking, well, do we really know each other now? Because you just get in the humdrum of going to work, coming home... Running kids here and... here and there. You don't mean to, but you probably stop thinking about each other. I find it hard to express emotion most of the time, although I'm getting on top of that more now, you know. I mean, just the simple things, say to Susan "I love you", something like that. I mean, I can tell you about it but... um... I really haven't been able to say it freely to Sue, you know. It's hard to talk about, I did end up having to get help. It wasn't directly due to our relationship, it started at work unfortunately, but, and um... which brought my self esteem down, which tended to affect everything else and I was just very fortunate that I saw a local doctor and with her help, I started coming back to normal thinking properly. I mean, I was feeling a little bit worried about the relationship because I felt like I hadn't progressed, I was going backwards and, I mean, I still believe that.

I was thinking... why would Susan want to be with someone as... sounds funny, but as boring as me, because there was nothing there, what do I do? How do I... say it? It was a shock that he'd got that low and doubted the relationship because one thing I've always known is that Paul's never doubted his love for me. It's always been there and I've never doubted it either. Did the physical side of your marriage suffer? I think it did. I think it did, really. It did, for a little while. But it... we promised ourselves when we first got married that we'd never stop, you know, touching or being affectionate towards each other and in front of the children we've always been, and even now with the children we, we still embrace a lot, um... both Katie and Robert, I mean... Katie will sometimes say "Mother... stop it." I was gonna be a policeman but I thought how hard it would be to join in. I just haven't made up my mind yet. I was gonna be a phys ed teacher but one of the teachers told me that you had to get up into university. At 21, Paul was a junior partner in a firm of bricklayers. By 28, he'd gone out on his own as a sub-contractor.

I think when I started work for myself things were looking good for me cos I was out of school, something I was very enthusiastic about,

and I was chasing the dangling carrot but never got there cos, I mean, really I'm, I'm a worker and not, not a... not a businessman. By the time he was 42, Paul was doing factory work making signs for a plastics company. What's the future for you at work? Well, I mean, the job's still there, I've had talks with them about whether they were ushering me out the door and they say they're not, not that I'm that old but it's a bit of worry getting a full-time job with my skill levels. Sue had been a hairdresser for most of her working life. But at 49, she has a new career as an occupational therapist in a retirement home. You might be in your 40s and getting older

but you still have a lot to add, and can go in a different direction.

I call this my sea change. Do you have ambitions?

Not really now. I've been in this job 10 years and never asked for a pay rise. That's just what I've always been like. Has it affected home life at all? It has affected a little bit because I'm not there at home as much as I used to be for when Paul got home. It can be... and I'm sure I'm not the only one, it can be quite startling to get home and you think there's no one here. When I've been here for 30 years. It's really different. By the time they were 28, Paul and Sue had two children, Katie and Robert. Katie did well at school and got a place at university to study archaeology.

They're photos of the dig in Cyprus that I went on and we were digging in Bronze Age tombs that are around the village. You're the first person in the family to go to university. Was it a struggle for you? It was a bit because I had to do it all by myself. I had nobody to really help me cos Mum and Dad couldn't help me with essays or things like that. What does university mean? I'm pretty happy with Katie. I'm not having a go at Rob, but I've got fears for Robert cos he's struggling a little bit.

Robert has trained as a car mechanic. He's got reading and writing difficulties and he's coping with that. We'd like to see him be a little bit more proactive with doing a literacy course now he's a bit older. But just day-to-day troubles of making ends meet with money, it's always hard. He went nuts at me for using the phone. "There's no more fuckin' backhoes, you (BLEEP)... "You fuckin' do this all the time." What's Robert got that you gave him? Moodiness... I think Robert's even a little bit more moody than what I've ever been. He's not your average relaxed 21-year-old. Watcha doin'? We only had two children because we thought we couldn't love any more as much as them and now we've got two grandchildren and we love them. You love them as much, really. As much, yeah. With Rob and Stacey, we don't really know how long they're gonna last for and I keep my fingers crossed they will last. We can only hope that they work at it like we do. That's better.

In their 20s, Paul and Sue sold up, bought an old van and travelled across Australia. I think it brought us closer together. We really got to know each other and relied on each other so much. One of the most important things we ever did with our children was spend time with them and particularly when you've got holidays to actually... which a lot of parents do, you know, go camping with them. We've been camping there now, we worked it out, for 19 years cos Robert was two when we first went there. So does this beat the old van? This is the Hilton compared to that old van! Have you got plans for any big trips now the children have gone? I think we'd like to do something again but... you need the finances to support yourself for a few months.

And the monitor's up in the washroom sitting there saying "Well, there's no talking" and I wasn't talking today. I'm more at peace around the horses and the animals. I can be upset, be on edge, come down to the horses,

within 3 or 4 minutes of being here and I've forgotten everything. So it does calm you down. Last time I came, you had the horses. What's happened to the horses? Um... well, we gave Poinkin away to some people because it was a little bit expensive and also, the fun went out of it basically. How do you get that peace now? Well, I think I got it through running. Well, most Sunday mornings we go training. When Paul's doing marathons, when he's got to run great distances, I follow along with the bike as a bit of support and I take drinks for him so he doesn't get dehydrated. It's something we can do together, so we do that. We're not doing any great distances, we just... I've got an injured knee, I'm just trying to build it up so it gets used to running again.

I did the Host City Marathon.

It was my first marathon I did up in Sydney. They trialled the Olympic course and it was open to anyone, so I figured if you were gonna do a marathon that'd be the one to do. Nearly died but I enjoyed it. (Laughs)

My... happiness to me is a love for life and a love for people. When you look back on the marriage and the family, any regrets? No, we wish we'd had more children, but who knows, if we'd had them, we might have gone, no, too many. We might be both in the nut-house. (Laughs) But without a family, it's... what have you got? Nothing. Well, that's the way I feel. More than work, more than achieving? Yeah, you know, like, what you've got, you've got nothing unless you've got family and your health, anyway. You'd be awfully lonely without family, I think. Tell me, do you have any boyfriends, Suzy? Um... yes. Tell me about him. He lives up in Scotland and I think he's 13. Have you got any boyfriends, Suzy? What is your attitude towards marriage for yourself? Well, I don't know. I haven't given it a lot of thought cos I'm very, very cynical about it. Um... but then you get a certain amount of faith restored in it. Well, I mean, I've got friends and their parents are happily married, so it does put faith back into you but me myself, I'm very cynical about it. When I last saw you at 21 you were nervous,

you were chain-smoking, you were uptight, and now you seem happy. What's happened to you over these last seven years? I suppose Rupert. I'll give you some credit. Okay.

I'm now a chain-smoking... person. Oh, I think, you can't just walk through a marriage and think once you get married it's all going to be roses and everything forever. Um... you know, you have... well, everybody has their rows but we've never yet had a row that we haven't managed to sort out. It's very hard to actually say what it is that goes on between a couple. It's either there or it's not. We've been married 27 years now. Any marriage has its ups and downs. But somehow, whether it's through luck or determination, we've worked through the, the difficult times. He's just always been there for me and... I know I can rely on him and, you know, he's my punchbag in the same way as I'm probably his but it works. When I get married I'd like to have two children. I'm not very children-minded at the moment, I don't know if I ever will be. What do you think about them? Well, I don't like babies. At 28, Suzy had two sons Thomas and Oliver. By the time she was 35, Suzy had a daughter, Laura. Mummy! Yeah? So what are the children up to? They are... Tom is living in London having graduated, and now working and living in London. Ollie is working and living at home, and Laura is doing her AS levels. It was difficult when they first started to move away, all those memories of the children growing up. It's like a closed chapter now cos you can't bring those, bring those days back. I think what I admire about the young today is their confidence

and that's what I wished I'd had.

They just seem to take life and... and deal with it. What sort of things do you do? Ride, swim, play tennis, ping pong, and I might play croquet, anything like that.

I did have a privileged childhood but you have to take responsibility for your life somewhere along the line and some people take responsibility earlier than others. I was just a bit later taking it. Maybe now is... the first time that... I actually feel happy within my own skin. It's taken me a long time to do it. But I actually feel that I can accept decisions, wrong decisions, possibly, that I've made in the past. I'm comfortable with it now, I can live with it. So what's it been like for you being in these films? Very difficult, very painful, um... Not an experience I've enjoyed in any way. Every seven years it throws up issues that I guess we all learn to put into compartments between the seven years and then it all gets opened up again and it's... it's difficult. We were all landed in it and most of us have, for whatever reason,

chosen to go through with it. I'm not an outgoing, confident person. I'd like my privacy. I don't like however many million people picking over my life. Is that what they do, do you think? I should think for a couple of minutes, yes, and then it's yesterday's news.

And people seem to read into what they think we all think which I find very hurtful, really, because most of them come up with things that they think which is nothing like what's going through my head. Actually, she might be all right. What's the point of people sort of... going into people's lives and saying "Why do you like this, why don't you..."

I don't see any point in it. So, have you had enough of being in the film? I mean, who knows in seven years whether it'll be done again, but... this is, this is me saying hopefully I'll reach my half century next year and... and I shall bow out.

Captions (c) SBS Australia 2008