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(generated from captions) out of whack? So was the pollie-graph just fail to deliver? Or did Tony Abbott Joe Hockey. Let's ask Liberal Shadow Treasurer Welcome, Joe. was given an unfair advantage? Now do you think Mr Rudd

No Worm on this chat so you are

safe. I think there was, it was an

uneven playing field, basically

because Kevin Rudd's released half

of his heplt policy, we have

released about 20 per cent of our

health policy. It was a debate health policy. It was a debate about

health. The form at worked against

good debate. Why? There neated to be

greater interest in the questions

being asked and more interaction

between Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd

than there was. If there was more

interaction we would have got

answers to key questions. For

example, even though the federal

government wants to take over the

funding of hospitals, who is

to be responsible for running the funding of hospitals, who is going

hospitals? What apr happened to

dental care and primary care

generally, these things weren't

addressed yesterday. Taking aside

the content, to be honest I didn't

think there was a lot in it. It was

about the two lead rb. One piece

said this morning Kevin Rudd had the

smile plastered on his face and

trying to be happy and warm and Tony

Abbott was aggressive and chortled

and laughed, and I guess,

aggressiveive for want of a better

word? I suppose it is the nature of

debate. A lot of people don't see

active debate on television, a lot

of active debate in the community.

And in a sense, it was a

transformation of the parliamentary

debate to a TV audience. But look,

the whole, I think the Worm

trivializes the whole debate. This

is a huge policy issue. We should

not be totally mesmerised with what

appears to be sort of, TV stunts, if

you like, we should be focused on

what is important. That is a

what is important. That is a health

policy for the future of the nation.

I got to ask you if

I got to ask you if Tony Abbott was

a flop according to the Worm, how

wouldio rate your purp forpance?

Well, it wasn't me. I have

challenged Wayne Swan to debates for

the last 12 months and he won't. He

won't debate the shadow treasurer,

he sends out someone else and

refuses to debate me on the economy.

I am happy to debate the treasure,

anywhere, any time, on Sunrise. Is

the latest something thing? We are

hearing the counsellors around the

country want to do health debates.

Tony Abbott challenged Kevin Rudd to

another three. We sneed to get it

out there and get scrutiny on the

policy. The health policy in

particular, our hospitals need a lot

of work but they could be a lot

worse. I don't know of any

in the world where I would rather be worse. I don't know of any country

than Australia if I was in a serious

accident. Having said that, we can

always do better. But Kevin Rudd is

proposing a major transformation

that has the potential to be

enormously disruptive. We need a

proper debate. One of the points he

made yesterday that rated quite well

on the Worm, whether you like it or

not is when he said to Tony not is when he said to Tony Abbott, " not is when he said to Tony Abbott,

"Let's work together on this is." It

is the perception of the viewers, we

want you to work together. Do you want it to happen?

want it to hap?

want it to hap?En yes, we have been

down the path before. We held hands

and sang combiyeah on emissions

trading. We weren't prepared to

defend his policy if he

prepared to defend his poly. We defend his policy if he wasn't

offered bipartisan support on

Aboriginal housing, he didn't

Mal Brough rr at all. From our Aboriginal housing, he didn't want

perspective, we are happy to engage,

but at the same time, Kevin was

offering the generous hand

yesterday, he was vicious attack

ads, against Tony ads, against

ads, against Tony Abbott on TV.

There was no singing of Kum Bay Yay