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Where Is The Wall? -

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(generated from captions) and threatened with violence. I think the reward comes at the end to do something, when you actually do manage what's going on there. at least to make people understand with a passport - It's like an open university you never cease to be surprised you never cease to learn, we're wired up with the internet and particularly in this age where

of information. and there's a blizzard that you realise just It's not until you get to a place how little you really do know. As I got off the plane looking around, I was walking across the tarmac

where the gunmen might be hiding, seeing what was out there, seeing and he shook me warmly by the hand Issa Farah came across to welcome me

"Andrew, welcome to Somalia. and he said, By the way, your fly's undone." Closed Captions by CSI

This program is not subtitled

Live. This Program is Captioned

Good evening. Virginia Haussegger with an ABC News update. Lawyer force the Chief update. Lawyer force the Act's their client is looking forward Chief Magistrate Ron Cahill say

to being exonerated judicial commission. The Act to being exonerated bay

Magistrate Cahill from duties pending a judicial Magistrate Cahill from his inquiry into Police are searching for a man believed to be involved in double murder in Sydney. Well believed to be involved in a

known Waterlow and his daughter Chloe were found dead in hair home last night. Police cant want to speak Tens of thousands celebrated 20 years since Tens of thousands have

toppling of the Berlin celebrated 20 years since the

Wall. World leaders including former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev joined warm again tomorrow in Canberra Gorbachev joined the party. And a top of 32.

* (MAN SPEAKS JAPANESE) 'My name is Takahisa Matsuura. TRANSLATOR: I was a student in West Berlin. In the 1980s, and take photos. I used to go to the wall every day Many years have passed since then. the wall in Berlin. I'd like to see what has become of it was an impassable death strip.' In those days, Now, when that Berlin Wall comes up, in the West. that leaves the Reichstag this 100-mile barrier, Now, this wall, through the centre of Berlin. well, really was a 28-mile scar SHOUTING AND CHEERING can you see that double cobblestone Now, in the middle of the street?

a little earlier. You saw me stepping on it That is the line, of where the wall used to stand. that is the commemoration and as I said, over there is East. So, where we are now is West, (MAN SPEAKS GERMAN) TRANSLATOR: 'We had the idea from the city council. of buying all the wall elements We have enough wall in stock for the next 15 or 20 years.' to supply tourists (MAN SPEAKS GERMAN) 'Is the wall selling well?' (MAN SPEAKS GERMAN) 'My name is Gerhard Lindner. TRANSLATOR: I have 27 shops in Berlin, and Berliniana. where I sell souvenirs The shops are all in prime locations, Kurfurstendamm, Friedrichstrasse. such as Pariser Platz, Tauentzien,

It's all shifted well, I see. In our range, and large fragments of the wall, we have small, medium-size and really big pieces too. like thousands of others. At first, we started hacking away in front of the Brandenburg Gate We laid the pieces on the ground and the tourists came along, or on Pariser Platz, "Two marks, one mark," and we simply said, and they sold like hotcakes. and so did the prices. The pieces got bigger, Five marks, six marks, seven marks! the more we charged. And the bigger the piece, and even better for my wallet. That was good for me, That's how the success story started. for the next 20 years. We have enough pieces of wall and we have people with chisels. We have machines to process them sprayed any of it ourselves. It's all original. We've never as we got them, We always cut up the pieces and sell them through our shops.' (MAN SPEAKS GERMAN) 'Here we produced concrete elements. TRANSLATOR: warehouses, supports, girders, Everything possible - supporting wall elements. load-bearing elements, "He made parts for the Berlin Wall Now, you might think, and now his conscience is bothering him." I can't say it is. For us, it was a job like any other. for that purpose, The elements weren't developed but for animal feed silos,

their grain and grass silage. where the collective farms prepared At some time or other, must've had the bright idea some clever so-and-so border security, that these elements would be good for producing them for Berlin. and then we slowly started

In parallel with the production for agricultural purposes. where they put it. Otherwise, the wall is still standing My name is Gerhard Falk. for 23 years. I worked in this concrete factory I started off as a simple worker, here. but I rose to become works manager

strict quality control. The elements were subject to was tested every day in a lab. Their compression strength They lasted a good long time too. wall-peckers started chipping away, You could see that, when the to hack out a few bits. how hard it was It was very strong. We were just told to deliver in a particular year, a certain quantity to Berlin and we tried to fulfil this quota. before the wall came down. We went on producing till shortly They probably wanted to wall in the whole of Berlin. and suddenly we had a phone call. There was, in any case, a demand, They weren't taking any more. We could cease production. before the wall came down. That was, I think, about six months My heart bleeds. After all, I spent 23 years here - the most important part of my life - but you can't do anything about it. going to rack and ruin.' It's a crying shame to see all this (SPEAKS GERMAN) 'Here, where this tower is. TRANSLATOR: That's where the firm is. You can't see anything anymore.' (TAKAHISA SPEAKS JAPANESE) TRANSLATOR: 'Here, two workers are painting the wall white, and behind are two border guards. They were watching the workers to make sure they didn't flee to the West.'

Ah! LIQUID TRICKLES (SPEAKS GERMAN) 'To pee against the wall - that's something special. It's a real wall feeling. It's great!' MACHINE WHIRRS AND BEEPS

(MAN SPEAKS GERMAN) TRANSLATOR: 'Right after the wall was opened,

there was this 1.3km section of the wall that was grey. It was a bit back from the actual border. And then some woman managed to get this section listed as a heritage site and to have it painted by 100 different artists. That's how it began, the so-called East Side Gallery. My name is Thierry Noir and I painted about 5km of the Berlin Wall. The wall stood right in front of my house in Kreuzberg. At some time or other, I had this physical need to do something against it. As I had some paint, I simply painted it. It wasn't exactly funny to see this wall every day from the toilet. You went to the toilet, and you saw the People's Police watching us. Over time, that makes you ill. According to the motto, "Bonjour, tristesse." Of course, the studio was very practical because we were just five metres from the border, and it was easy for us to get our things to safety if there was any danger. The wall wasn't really grey. It was a confused mass of different slogans. Then came the first pictures from the top to the bottom.

3.6 metres high times 5 metres, then 10, then 50, then 100. The first 100-metre picture was in summer, '84. It was important not to paint alone,

or in the vicinity of a crossing point or a secret door. The secret doors were integrated like a wall segment, and it was very dangerous because the border guards could open the door quick as a flash and appear on the Western side.' KNOCKING ON STONE 'It's now no longer forbidden or dangerous. It's a homage to the wall painting. The wall is gone, but the wall painting has survived. It's a part of my life. I have to recognise that. I'm not a wall fetishist. I don't dream about the wall at night and weep. I'm glad that it's no longer there, I must say.' (TAKAHISA SPEAKS JAPANESE) TRANSLATOR: 'When you went down to the wall in those days, you saw the border guards watching the West through their binoculars. Sometimes they'd call to their superiors if they discovered something. Or they had a camera and wanted to photograph me. I didn't like that, so I always tried to cover my face.' MAN: I'm Tyler Drumheller. I served almost 30 years in the CIA. The last part of that, I was chief of Europe for the agency for four years. Germany is the key piece. There were people inside, analysts inside the CIA and the other intelligence services, British and others, who said, "Something is really happening. This is different." They knew the pressure was building. It came up very quickly and some people believed, "This is just a KGB plot to throw us off-balance,

and that really it's all staged and it's really... They're letting them do this to sort of relieve the pressure, and then they're gonna tighten back down." So, there were even people that thought like that. There's not much of the wall left in Berlin. There's probably more of the wall here and in other places around the world than there is in Berlin now. They were brought there as part of the 50th anniversary of the CIA in 1997. It was part of the CIA 50th anniversary.

And there was a whole generation of officers and personnel who had grown up learning about East Germany, learning and being experts on East Germany, and their entire career was focused on that, and some had a very emotional commitment to supporting West Germany, supporting freedom,

and when the wall came down, it sort of ended with a whimper more than a bang. But they're looking for how to define themselves, since they defined themselves so much by their main enemy, which had been the Soviet Union and East Germany. Realising, then, they had to shift to counter-terrorism, counter-proliferation, which had already begun at that point, but there were some people that it was very difficult for, and so we had people who would say, "Oh, I can go to Thuringen for a, you know, to visit Thuringen and I can see, you know, how democracy is devel..." I said, "You don't have to see how democracy is developing in the East. It's developed, it's over. The war is over. We won."

(MAN SPEAKS GERMAN) TRANSLATOR: 'The Berlin Wall - 1961 to 1989. And these metal plates here across the entire city you can only see in West Berlin. This schema characterises the third generation, consisting of various building materials and silo boundaries. The whole window facade was barred.

The wall was directed against the people of the GDR. My name is Hagen Koch. My life's work is the history of the Berlin Wall. In 1961, I was a member of the guard regiment that built the wall.

In 1989 and 1990, as an employee of the Institute for Heritage Conservation, I was commissioned to preserve the history of the Berlin Wall for posterity. I have now collected everything that lies between these two events, and set up an archive - the Berlin Wall Archive. Here we have a photograph with me at a table entering on all these cards the building measures that had to be implemented. I got the order to show the rabble in West Berlin where their wicked capitalist world came to an end, and from the Cafe Adler over there, I took a pot of paint and a brush. With my right leg in West Berlin, my left leg in East Berlin, I drew a white line across the street. It took almost three years to put these 1,084 photos in the right order, but to stop people coming and saying, "We need a new wall and we are hearing these voices once more," I said, "You don't know what you are talking about. That's why these documents are important." And with the change of government in spring, 1990, I was made the special commissioner for the history of the Berlin Wall.

We want to list these 150 to 200 metres as a protected heritage site. It's certainly a part of history, both positive and negative. That should always be documented. And in case we want to designate any more wall...' (LAUGHS) 'The first auction of the Berlin Wall took place in the InterConti Hotel in 1990. There was one element no-one wanted. Then someone had the idea of auctioning it in Monte Carlo. Six original parts of the Berlin Wall were set up outside the Park Palace, and they were bought by people with serious money.

This section was bought by Ljiljana Hennessy,

the boss of the cognac empire.' (WOMAN SPEAKS FRENCH) TRANSLATOR: 'My name is Ljiljana Hennessy. I'm here on the estate where we cultivate the vines where I work among the vines from which we produce cognac. I brought my piece of Berlin Wall here.

I spend almost all the time here, even in winter. I sit here because it's very beautiful. That's why I put it here. At first, I wanted to put it somewhere in the park, but it got broken badly, so I contacted Kiddy, and he told me it could be repaired and that he would come here to do it. I arrived with my sister, and I listened and listened. I didn't want to buy a piece of wall.

It was right at the end of the catalogue. The mouth is so beautiful. I don't know what came over me, but my hand went up, just like that. I don't know why I wanted to buy this piece of wall with the hearts, or perhaps I do. It is something extraordinary, a piece of freedom. Above all, because it reminds me of the country of my birth.

When I left, Yugoslavia was communist,

but it reminds me of that. We were free to leave, but not to say and do what we wanted.'

CAMERA CLICKS (TAKAHISA SPEAKS JAPANESE) TRANSLATOR: 'This was where the tracks ended. Today trams go across the bridge once more.' CROWD CHANTS IN GERMAN APPLAUSE CHEERING AND APPLAUSE CROWD SINGS IN GERMAN (SPEAKS GERMAN)

TRANSLATOR: 'This is the first hole in the Berlin Wall

on Potsdamer Platz. When the wall was still closed, it looked just like this.' CHEERING AND SHOUTING 'This piece here was broken off from the foot, and then the GDR border guards broke it into pieces and sold it, maybe to Japan, maybe to America. These four pieces were left. I bought them. You have to imagine what it was like then. People really thought, "The wall's going to make us rich!" The price was incredible. They wanted 385,000 deutschmarks for the four pieces. I beat them down to 46,000. You couldn't overlook the swastika,

even though it's linked with a hammer and sickle in the original. The problem is that the very first section had been smashed. In other words, only the swastika can now be seen. I've changed that with this polystyrene replica. In spite of all that, even in this highly logical link-up -

Hitler-Stalin pact, hammer and sickle linked with the swastika plus "Free the Baltic states," that's too complicated, not wanted.

No-one wants to know.

My name is Hans Martin Fleischer. I'm 45 years old. When the wall came down, I was 26.' CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 'Almost everyone I know, me included, gets goose bumps from the historic scene of the wall every time.' CHEERING 'The idea behind it is simple. You have a portable freedom monument. You can approach decision-makers and say, "Look here, Mr Mayor, these are the original sections of the first hole in the Berlin Wall. I have them. They were standing there, they should go back there."'

It's hollow. You are tricking us. (SPEAKS GERMAN) TRANSLATOR: 'Is that the wall? My father was shot on the wall. They killed him as he was trying to escape.' (SPEAKS GERMAN) TRANSLATOR: 'I need volunteers to help get it down.' (SPEAKS GERMAN) TRANSLATOR: 'I was in the border police. I don't think it looked like that. It's not genuine, I tell you. I know my wall.' TRANSLATOR: 'This piece of wall, that's a symbol worldwide that things can change. That's the most important thing about it. Whatever the political or economic situation in a country, it can be changed by the action of the people.' (MAN SPEAKS FOREIGN LANGUAGE) TRANSLATOR: 'I was invited to West Berlin in December, 1989. I tried to hack a piece out of the wall with a small hammer,

but without success. The important thing was with colour, as a symbol, but the concrete was so hard that I couldn't manage.

A few months later, when a delegation - including the then mayor Eberhard Diepgen - came to Jerusalem, we were given a small symbolic piece of the wall. It's standing here. My name is Ari Rath. I came to Palestine 70 years ago in November, 1938. Here in Israel, the fall of the Berlin Wall is a very important symbol. The wall came down on 9th November, 1989, on the very day when, 51 years earlier, the riots of the so-called Reich pogrom night took place.' (SPEAKS GERMAN) TRANSLATOR: 'Where the greenhouse now stands, the garden just came to an end. We only built the gate when the wall came down. Before, we weren't allowed to. This is where the border marker stood. "Attention - you are leaving the territory of the German Democratic Republic." And the first wall, it stood right here. Here, there was nothing. As the years went by, everything got overgrown. All these trees are 18 years old. Best we go through here. As I said, this was all no-man's-land.' (TAKAHISA SPEAKS JAPANESE) TRANSLATOR: 'It's all very strange. I used to see the wall everywhere here. And now it's just open land.' CAMERA CLICKS (MAN SPEAKS POLISH) TRANSLATOR: 'As far as I know, nowhere are there so many pieces of wall as in my garden in Sosnowka.

My name is Ludwik Wasecki. I was born in Wroclaw in 1947. I went to university there too. When I graduated in 1973, I went to Sweden because my family were anti-communist and anti-Soviet. The wall, that's a part of my life. The wall divided me from my family, my friends and my colleagues. When it came down in 1989, I created two installations. The first was called The Golden Future. It showed a Trabbie breaking through the Berlin Wall. It was painted gold in front and grey behind.

Until recently, it stood here. Unfortunately, teenagers have stolen two thirds of it. First they took the tyres, then the bodywork, so that in the end, we had to remove the car. However, we've made the preparations for a replacement. It'll be here soon. I got so enthusiastic about the project that I bought a further eight pieces of wall, then another eight, and then another nine. In the end, I acquired more than 40. When my mother took a bus trip somewhere, she heard passengers saying that the wall sections were the foundations for a new hotel in Sosnowka. The inhabitants of the village then gradually found out what they were, that they were bits of the Berlin Wall, and they are proud that a piece of world history is standing in Sosnowka, and that the village is known in the world as a result.' (MAN SPEAKS GERMAN)

TRANSLATOR: 'My name is Winfried Prem. I come from the beautiful Upper Palatinate region of Bavaria, and my dream was always to demolish the wall.' PIANO ACCORDION PLAYS

'I often went to see the wall, then I thought, "There's vast quantities of material there to shred," what with the Hinterland walls, the watchtowers, the lampposts and all that. And then my dream came true.

Suddenly I heard that the wall had been opened. I thought, "Vinny, there's no time to lose. You must get in there." I saw the military already demolishing part of it, so I went over and started playing my squeezebox. One of them called to me and said, "You there, what are you up to? Are you a musician, or what?" Then I got out my business catalogue and showed him what I had. "Right," he said. "That's just what we need." Then I lifted the wall away. We organised two depots, and from there, my machines broke it into small pieces.

Then they went into the mincer.

This was the machine we used to grind up the wall. There was a great demand. There was a lot of construction going on. They must've been glad we had the wall as a substitute for hardcore. The hours I spent on this machine! I just couldn't stand the sight of it anymore. More and more and more of it was delivered to the site. The wall's all over Berlin. On the streets and motorways. It was put to good use.' TRANSLATOR: 'This is where the border strip used to be. That made it so easy to build a motorway, and the hardcore came from the wall.' (WOMAN SPEAKS SWEDISH) TRANSLATOR: 'In 1968, when I was a teenager, I fell in love with the Berlin Wall. I cut out pictures of it and made drawings, and used the drawings to make a simple cardboard model of the Berlin Wall. My name is Eija Riita Berliner Mauer. I'm 54 years old, and I've been married to the Berlin Wall since 17th June, 1979.

To start with, I wrote poems to the Berlin Wall, then I wrote love letters, which a friend in Berlin put on the wall. It wrote back in German, "I love you." When I look at the pictures here, I find the Berlin Wall very sexy. Someone once said to me, "You're lucky! You can hang up all these pornographic pictures without anyone noticing." I embrace the wall and hold it tight against my body. It reaches all the way down. The wall itself never asked to be built. It was, in the end, people who built it. It was called the Ulbricht Wall. I thought Walter Ulbricht was great. My father always called me

when there was something about the Berlin Wall on television. Then it was 1989. The Berlin Wall was on television. I went to the living room and got the shock of my life. If it were in my power, I'd throw the people who demolished it into jail. They took away the ground from under my feet. I have only contempt for these people.' (SPEAKS JAPANESE) TRANSLATOR: 'I look out over the whole city from above, and it looks like any normal city. That's a good thing.' (WOMAN SPEAKS JAPANESE) TRANSLATOR: 'Our company, Nihon Bisoh, manufactures gondolas for high-rise construction, which we develop in this factory in Nagasaki. For us, the piece of wall is a symbol of our work, which is concerned with overcoming walls.' (SPEAKS JAPANESE) (WOMAN SPEAKS JAPANESE)

TRANSLATOR: 'This is the Western side of the wall, and this is the Eastern side. The complicated locking mechanism was on the Eastern side. It needed two keys to open it.' DOOR CREAKS (SPEAKS JAPANESE) TRANSLATOR: 'Once, when maintenance work was being done in front of the Brandenburg Gate, the East German border guards had to open the wall for a short time. I used this moment to take a lot of photographs.' Closed Captions by CSI

*

This Program is Live

Captioned.

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service to Harr a he chained

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and Chloe Waterlow were found

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Tomorrow's weather, hot in

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More news in Lateline at 10:30.