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(generated from captions) Hinduism and Buddhism, these

are bodies of knowledge. First

and foremost they are bodies of

knowledge. Now people believed

them and people didn't believe,

these bodies of knowledge had

to be respected because they

were the best that people could

manage in times before ours.

They didn't have the

technologies we have but inside

those bodies of knowledge they

made worlds like the aborigines

did with their dream songs.

They answered the basic

questions that man has been

trying to answer since the

beginning of time. Why are

people born dead, why does is

sun go down so on and so forth.

Inside the Christian body of

knowledge, inside the King

James Bible there are all sorts

of paraibles, wiz dmss,

atrocities which makes it a

powerful book as a body of

knowledge. So to wipe off an

entire body of knowledge seems

to be me to be completely

irresponsible. Secondly, to

actually say that this religion

caused terrible things to

happen is a kalny, it's not

true. Men caused terrible

things to happen. Men lusting

for power caused a terrible

thing to happen. But often in

the name of religion. In the

name of anything, I agree with

you, in the name of religion.

In the name of anything they

can get their hands on. In the

name of ideology, in the name

of magic, anything, or in the

name of killing people. There's

nothing religious in the name

of Gan gas Khan. Pol Pot I

don't think was particularly

religious, I don't think Mao

was either. It isn't just

religion, leaders always want

extra reasons to do what

they're doing. What they

basically want to do and have

is power and the way they will

get power is by killing other

people or controlling other

people. If they can have around

them the or oryell of really

I'm sent by God, so much the

better. I don't think it says

anything about religion.

Religion remains the mutual

body of knowledge to be abused

and used. The mistake Atheists

make is to think religion is

the cause. It isn't. It's

something that's brought in.

Ignorance anan mouse is - well

I've talked a bit about

slavery. Dauck yins, for

instance, says at one stage,

well, look at how it can be

used to console the Christian

religion. The bosses on the

plantations said look, you will

be Christians and you'd will

have eternal life so keep on

working and that will be OK.

Calmed them down, kept them

going, and so on. It didn't,

actually. What happened to slaves is they took hold of it

and turned it into liberation

mythology. He was completely

ignorant, he Di didn't do his

research. It's hard to

understand why he wants to

attack this, a man who is heir

to a great body of scientific

knowledge why he wants to

attack this other body of nadge

that nurtured other great

explorers of all time. Why he

wants to do that it's his own

little agenda, which is a

shame. Thank you so much for

coming on the show today.

And the full interview with

Lord Bragg will be available on

the Lateline website tomorrow.

Russia's interfax newsagency

has reported that a Russian

military unit has arrived in

Syria in what some are seeing

is a show of support for the

regime of President Bashar al

Assad. At the same time Russia's Foreign Minister has

called for a daily truce

between government and

anti-government forces in Syria

to allow desperately needed

humanitarian aid in and injured

people out. The move has been

welcomed by the United States and sparked hope of change

and sparked hope of change in

Russia's position. I sincerely

hope that the international

community will continue to

speak in one voice and

particularly - I hope lit be

able to be united so they can

speak in one voice. Mr Ban

urged quick action from the

international community warning

that any delay would result in

even more deaths. The United

Nations estimates that 8,000

people have now been killed in

the violence. At least 44

people have been killed and

nearly 200 others injured in a

series of coordinated attacks

across Iraq. 16 bombs were

detonated in a dozen towns and

cities, the biggest toll was in

the Shi'ite holy city of Karbala where 13 people died.

More were killed in blasts

outside a police station in the

oil city of Kakuk and in

Baghdad. At least nine other

bombs were defused. The attacks

coincided with the 9th anniversary of the US invasion

of Iraq in 2003 and comes just

days before an Arab League

meeting to be held in the

capital. And now to the


That's all from us. If you'd

like to look back at tonight's

interview with Lord Bragg or

review any of Lateline's

stories or transcripts you can

visit the website, you can also

follow us on Twitter and on

Facebook. The Business is

coming up now with Ticky

Fullerton. Steve Cannane will

be here tomorrow and I'll see

you again on Friday. Goodnight. Closed Captions by

CSI This Program is Captioned

Live. Tonight - the mining tax

man cometh as the Gillard

Government prepares to top up

its coffers, questions over

community of the mining boom.

I'm Ticky Fullerton, you're

watching The Business.

Spreading the benefits of the

boom, that's the Government's

message as the mining law tax

becomes L-A-W law. But while it's creating unprecedented

wealth there are claims it's

destroying tens of thousands of

jobs. Speaking of tax, we

crunch the numbers with the

Government's minister for

money, Penny Wong. And the

corporate watchdog wags its

finger. ASIC putting the

spotlight on companying keeping

investors in the dark. First a

quick look at the markets which

are looking a bit short of

direction at the moment:

After nearly two years at

mining lobby, the Federal times a brutal battle with the

Government's mineral resource

rent tax is set to start on

July 1 but as the Government

basks in the glow of finally getting the controversial tax through parliament, there are

claims the mining industry

isn't the white knight for the

economy which its supporters

portray it to be. It's been a

long, at times tortuous path

and a prime minister was lost

along the way but the mineral

resource rent tax has finally made it through both houses of

parliament. For the Treasurer

at least, that's something to

crow ant - about. This is a

very important, historic reform

for our country. It will

strengthen our economy, it will

strengthen investment and it

will strengthen employment. But

according to the Canberra-based

think tank the Australia

Institute the mining base

headaches for the Government

may only be beginning. In a

study timed to coincide with

the Queensland State election the Australia Institute claims

the resources boom could

destroy around 20,000 non-mining jobs in Queensland

alone. It's very clear the

exchange rate's imposing huge

costs on manufacturing,

tourism, education and

agriculture and we've had this

simplistic debate that you're agriculture simplistic debate that you're

either for the mining boom or you're against it. My frustration is

frustration is we haven't had you're

the honest debate about winners

and losers and what to and losers and what to do about

it. Manufacturing company Team

Engineering is an example of the the what the Australia Institute Institute claims is happening on

on a larger scale. The company

moveded to Mackay in Queensland

Hope hoping to cash in on the

nearby coal industry. Instead

sales have dramatically

fallen. We're coming up against

jobs where work could be

sourced overseas, South-East

Asia for a similar price that

we're buying the actual raw

material before we improve

it. For the 350-odd iron ore

and coal miners who will be

impacted by the mineral resource rent tax the hard work

may only just be beginning.

They have 7 months before they

will be assessed for tax under

the new system. There's a significant exercise to change systems

systems in order to gather the

information that miners will

need to meet their compliance

obligations and it's something

that I think many miners are

underestimating the scale of

that change and the different that I

kinds of information that they

will need to gather to meet

this broad-reaching tax. Which

is why Scott Grimley thinks most

most miners won't be ready by

October. As well, new and

emerging miners will have to

decide based on their earnings

whether to opt in or opt out of whether

the MRRT and if they get that

decision wrong they will decision wrong they will pay significant penalties. They

won't get the benefit of a tax

shelter that any sort of

starting base evaluation might

bring. They won't get the

benefits of royalty credits or losses

losses that are made between

now and when they pay

MRRT. Which is why tax experts

like Scott Grimley will be in losses

high bhands - demand over the

next few months. To discuss tax

and other money matters I was joined early by Finance

Minister Penny Wong. Welcome to

the program. Good to be with

you again. You've got the

mining tax through, a measure

of great substance according to

the Treasurer, but at some

cost. Will you be materially

changing the Treasury forecast

of $10.6 billion from the MRRT

over the first 3 years in the

upcoming budget? We will update

our figures in the usual way in

the budget and any subsequent

updates but I would say this,

it is an historic reform. It's

the first time we've got this

through the parliament, a reform that's about spreading

the benefits of the boom,

delivering, using the higher

profits of profitable miners,

making sure they pay a

reasonable rate to the

Australian people and through

that funding cuts to the

company tax system, plus

investing in things like

superannuation for working

Australians. A very good

reform. But I guess the

question is just how much lower

the tax take is going to be.

Commodity prices could be a lot

lower, you have the high

Australian dollar, you've got

the State royalty issues and I

see the Minerals Council of Australia insisting they never

agreed to the projections and the numbers can't be added up

for you? The revenue projections are projections from the Treasury, the same people who advised Peter

Costello. This is a

profits-based tax and you're

always going to see some

fluctuation in revenue. Is that

likely to be a material change downwards? What

downwards? What I would say to

you is we have factored in, our projection s into the budget

which shows the budget coming

back to surplus in 12-13,

unlike the Opposition which

refuses to cost any of its

policies. It is a tax which is

going to deliver a variable

revenue though and I guess the

concern from some is on the

spending side things like your

your superannuation guarantee and

your tax cuts they are ongoing

fiscal commitments. What's

going to happen when that

mining revenue does reduce or

dry up, as it inevitably

will? The sorts of policies

you've outlined cuts to the

company tax rate and investment

in superannuation, they are

good economic policy, opposed

by the Opposition, but they're

good. They're good for the

economy, good for the savings

rate and good for the company

sector and small business. I

guess the issue is you're not

matching like with like. You're

raising from a tax that could

rise and fall and your

commitments on an ongoing

basis, potentially in perp tuty

are going to be there as hard commitments? And unlike the

Opposition, we have factored those commitments into our

budget bottom line, which shows

the budget coming back to

surplus in 12-13 and

continuing. Alright, well it

looks like you've got a

2-tiered 2-tiered tax coming up, so much

for the promised tax cut for

bigger businesses? Well, can I

say this is something Mr Abbott really has to answer some

questions about. I mean this is questions

a Liberal leader who is saying

he will seriously line up with

the Australian Greens to kill a

company tax cut. But is it less

the position that Mr Abbott has

put himself in and the position

that the Labor Government, the

bed that you have made,

Minister, is actually with the

Greens and it's the Greens this

time that are saying no. Come

on, Ticky, no, I don't agree

with that. That is, with

respect, that is the spin that

Mr Abbott wants to put but we

will vote for a company tax cut

just as we voted for the MRRT

and small business tax breaks

which were included. Let me

suggest to you that it's not

just tax cuts which is the issue, it's the carbon tax as

well obviously but it is your

compromising with the Greens

that is of great concern to the business community and no amount of playing small business off with billionaires

or announcing coag business

forums is really going to

change that from business's

point of view. But we haven't

compromised with the Greens on

this issue. Let's remember - No, you certainly haven't. Precisely, we are

saying no, we've said no to the

Greens when it comes to their

position on the company tax. As

a result you can't deliver the

cut for big business? Come on.

You're telling me that we

should just say, you know,

everyone in Australia should

say Tony Abbott's just allowed

to say no to everything even if

it's in the national interest

and we're not going to

criticise him for standing with

Bob Brown. Penny Wong, Glenn

Stevens yesterday said the high

Australian dollar should help

the Government. He said, I

quote, "At the margin this has

to make the task of enduring fiscal soundness a little

easier", do you agree with

him? Well, I'm the Finance

Minister and I'm the Finance

Minister at a time when we've

seen a lot of downgrading in

government revenue forecasts.

It's about $140 billion over

this period since the GFC,

that's a lot of money we've had

to find in order we en - ensure

we remain on track to bring the budget back to surplus next

year. I might take that as a

no. I respect him greatly. All

I can say is this is not an

easy task but one we're determined, unlike the Opposition, to engage in

because we think a surplus is

the right thing for the

economy. And finally, Minister,

Bill Shorten, your colleague,

announced a 1-year delay in the

FOFA legislation in the last

week. Now - and I'm thinking in

particular of things like the

opt in rules. Isn't this a sop

to some in the industry who

don't want any change? No, I

think Bill laid out the reasons

for that when he spoke about

this. This is a very

substantial set of reforms. I

think very important reforms

about ensuring that Australians

get the best sort of financial

advice but obviously there's a

transition which has to occur

from where we are to where

we're going and Mr Shorten has

provided, I think a sensible

transitional path. You have

Independents like Rob Oakeshott

who are not the slightest bit

interested in that, it gives

them the opportunity to put up more resistance, I

guess? People are going to have

different views about this but

when you perform people want

you to go faster and people

want to go slower and we have

to find the right balance. Good

luck with it all. Thank you for

joining us. Thank you very

much. Continuous disclosure is

back in the spotlight this week

with Leighton Holdings come -

copping a $300,000 penalty and

David Jones in a trading halt

ahead of its profit

announcement tomorrow. Critics

say the corporal cop ASIC's

Greg Medd calf was too soft on

the giant but he defended the

case saying it sent a clear

message to all company

directors. It's the bane of any

investor's life, a shock profit

downgrade that comes from nowhere. What's most

frustrating for me is when you frustrating

see the share price go down 15%

frustrating or 20% and then they come

with the announcement. But the

generally corporate regulator say

generally the companies are

meeting their obligations to

keep the market informed. Just

make sure that you're comfortable in your own

governance practices and I

think that's the message that

we wanted to get out there,

that it's very - you know, it's

a timely reminder but at the

end of the day I think that the

level of continuous disclosure

is actually quite good. I think at the top end of the market,

at the big end of town it's

quite good. At the smaller

minnow end of the town it can be quite disgraceful at

times. But this week it was one

of those bigger companies,

Leighton Holdings, censured for

its disclosure practices. The

construction giant agreed to a

$300,000 fine without admitting

liability over a near billion dollar turn around in its

earnings guidance last year.

ASIC has come under fire for

going lightly on a major

company but chairman Greg

Medcraft has defended the

outcome. They've got to go and

look, appoint an independent

consultant to look at their processes. They've got to go

and implement those recommendations and we're

imposing an annual review for

the next 3 years so, you know,

that the most important thing is

that we got a timely outcome. I

know Leighton hasn't admitted

any guilt but they've settle

and paid a fine and everyone

looks at it and say they've

probably been wrapped over the

knuckles. Other companies look

and say we've got to pick our own

own game up. Now David Jones is

in a trading halt ahead of its

results raising suspicions it

too has more bad news for the

market. However, Steve Johnson

says he'd be surprised if David

Jones reveals anything that

investors haven't already

factored in. I think we need to

be really careful about continuous disclosure because

it's not possible for a company

that's in a commercial business

to be out there doing deals,

negotiating contracts and

disclosing all of that to the

market at the time. Greg

Medcraft said ASIC will be

closely watching Australia's rapidly growing superannuation

pool, increasing complexity and

how to police the market within

a finite budget. A matter of

ASIC resources is a matter for

government. My job is to take

the resources we have until

they bridge them to the best of

our ability. Which in the

future may mean more settlement

s like the one with Leighton

Holdings instead of lengthy and

potentially risky court

cases. Value in a company is

what all boards strive for on

behalf of shareholders and a

new index is about to throw new

light on value. I'm joined in

the studio by Roger Montgomery

from Montgomery Investment

Management. Welcome. Hello,

ticky. The global intrinsic

value din Dex is being launched

is it good? It's about time.

We're all focused on the index

and the S&P 200. The reason

it's performed so poorly is the

companies that are in that

index, the constituents aren't

in there because they're good

companies, they're not in there

because they've increased their

interensic value over time.

They're in there because

they're big. And because other

people in the market have

bought the shares? That's

exactly right. There's an

argument to get out of active managed funds and go into index

funds but index is going to

produce poor returns if they're

based on company size. Qantas hasn't

hasn't added a cent of intrinsic

intrinsic value in 10 years,

neither has Lend Lease.

Brambles hasn't either. There are many large companies that haven't increased their

value. Are all shareholders

going to be able to see this

index? Unfortunately not. The

subject of all of the wrong

reasons to be in the press,

that company, they're stitching

this particular index up for

themselves for their own funds.

But that doesn't prevent other

fund managers and other banks

from doing the same thing. They

can do the same thing and ask S&P

S&P to construct a new index

for them based on quality and fund

that's what we need. If we've got

got an index based on quality

we start investing in index

funds that make sense. Now

we're seeing possibly enough green shoots for people to

start talking about a global

recovery. Now if the recovery

story takes hold what sort of

threat is that going to bring

for inflation? It means the quantitative easing that we've

seen and the buying of treasure

ies of officialdom by US Treasury bonds won't continue

and what we've got is a dangerous bubble in US

treshies. I think US treasuries

are one of the least safest

places to be invested at the

moment because if you buy moment because if you buy a

30-year bond giving you 2% you

are guaranteed to lose

purchasing power over time. It

dubt make sense to be able to

invite 8 people to dinner this

year but in 5 year's time only 3 with the same amount of

money. Where do you see the

money flowing, out of bonds? Ultimately long term I

suspect it will be out of bonds

and into equities but short

term I'm vair bearish on

equities as well. The other scenario is we end up a bit

like Japan, I suppose? I think

that's the danger and all the

stars are lined up for a repeat

of the Japan situation, a deflationary scenario rather

than what we experienced in

1922 Germany when a loaf of

bred went from 3 marks to 700

marks in the space of 6 months. I

I don't think we'll see that

hyper inflation. It is a possibility but the deflation

looks like - the Japan's experience looks more likely the scenario for the United States. Pretty depressing.

Thank you for joining us. That

wasn't the intention but thank

you, Ticky. To the other major

movers on the local share

market and toll road operator

Transurban fell. The Canadian

pension fund that tried to buy

the company back in 2010 has

sold off more than half its stake now.

Turning to currency markets: The French are heading

towards a presidential election

in just over a month which

looks like one of the tightest

finishes in some time with

Nicolas Sarkozy closing the gap

on his rifle - rival social

Francois Holland e. Most of the campaigning

campaigning is about France's

handling of the euro crisis.

Rene Ricol has been one of

President Sarkozy's closest

adviser and also the author for

the 2008 report for the French Government on the financial

crisis. I spoke to him from

Paris just a short time ago.

Rene Ricol, welcome to the

program. Nice to be with you. I

have to ask you first about these terrible killings in

France, what is the latest? The

first point is just to

recognise, President Sarkozy

decided yesterday night to

develop a specific plan with an

insurmountable amount of people

walk working on this and trying

to find the guy killing these

babies and these people. But I

see that we are putting all the

resources, all the needed

resources for finding the gunman. To

gunman. To the election campaign and campaign and you were the hot Tippo for Nicolas Sarkozy's campaign director, how important

important is the Merkel/Sarkozy asliens asliens to the President's campaign? Historically the link between

between Germany and France is, if

if we want to build something if

knew is always key, so there is

no important in the campaign.

If Mr Hollande is elected there

is no wi to have a perfect

relationship between France and

Germany. So there is no

important than the campaign. I

see that in Germany people are

interested in the result of the French

French elections but nothing

more than that. It's not an

issue of coffer tense. Mr Sarkozy seems

Sarkozy seems to be going to

try and capture far right votes

calling now for protectionism

and tougher border controls,

that doesn't sound very

pro-European? I think that you need to properly understand

what is the position of

President Sarkozy. The position

of President Sarkozy is not to

put in place some mechanisms of

protectionism just for France.

Able to accept the products

coming from Asia, I think coming from Asia, I think it

just fair enough to consider

that Asia is to accept, to have

products coming from Europe and

we need to apraise the moves.

We need also to have a We need also to have a frank discussion about the balance in


terms of currencies between all

the parts of the world. Now, Mr

Sarkozy's rival Francois

Hollande wants changes to the

ECB's mandate to include growth

and he says he will renegotiate

the treaty signed by 25 member

states because it will cripple

economies. So if

economies. So if he wins what will happen? I'm sure that Francois Hollande will never do Francois

that because he has no way for

making that. In Europe and once

again, make a difference

between Europe and Eurozone. In the

the Eurozone we have the same

currency and that's key. So

that means that there is a

solidarity between these

countries and we can do nothing

against that so you can't say I

will do that if you are coming

to France, Spain, Italy because you can't do anything without

the agreement of the other

players. So the fact of being

in the Eurozone don't let do

any ability or right to

move. And Mr Sarkozy's plan for

a financial transaction tax on

French banks seems to smack of

populism. Banks will just pass

this cost on to customers,

won't they, and what will this

do to confidence? No, no, I do

agree with Nicolas Sarkozy when

he decided to have a tax on the

banks. It's not on the retail

operations, its on the trading

operations and just to consider

all of the views that the

crisis came first from the

financial industry with people

considering that it's normal to

get a lot of money, taking no

risk and that at the end of the

day on the other side people

are working day-to-day with the

normal job. So for Nicolas

Sarkozy to say we don't want to

see again this financial crisis

and obviously we do respect the people working in the financial

area but subject to the

condition that these people are

working for the whole economy

and not just for getting money

for themselves. So I thank

you. Thank you very much. And

all the way back here the

simmering water front war may

be a step closer to being

resolved with the Maritime

Union today agreeing to take

its dispute with assian o to

Fair Work Australia. Patrick's

ports operations have faced 60 stoppages

stoppages in the past 18 months

as the union and company fight over a new enterprise agreement. Negotiations broke down on Friday leading to a

deadlock. Analysts raised

concerns the company woush

forced to undertake a lockout

to resolve the dispute. Asciano held talks with the Federal

Government late yesterday to

resolve the impasse. In other

stories making business news,

Optus has confirmed it's set to axe jobs axe jobs but won't say how

many. The country's second

biggest telco says it's been undertaking a review of its

operations. The company says

redundancies are likely but has

dismissed reports 700 jobs will

go as speculation. House prices

in China have fallen for a

fifth consecutive month.

Beijing and Shanghai were among

50 cities on the slide

according to the country's national Bureau of Statistics.

The Chinese Government says

prices are still too high and property controls will remain

in place. And the much planned

fantasy adventure film 'John

Carter' is expected to lose

$200 million for Disney. It's

about a civil war veteran

transplanted to Mars but back

to Earth with a thud Disney

says it will drag its whole movie budget into the

red. Before we go a look at what's making business news in

overseas newspapers. Britain's 'Daily

'Daily Telegraph' says Apple is

to pay its first dividend for

nearly two decades and has

launched a $10 billion share

buyback program in an attempt to

to take a major bite out of its

near $100 billion cash horde. And that's the business.

I'm Ticky fuller tn, thanks for

watching, goodnight. Closed

Captions by CSI KERRY O'BRIEN: The place is Tahrir Square in Cairo. The people are in revolt - a million of them. Would Egypt become the model for an Islamic democracy? Or might the dream evaporate into intolerance and a new dictatorship? The halting journey to a new Egypt with a deeply uncertain outcome. Welcome to Four Corners. The so-called Arab Spring began in Tunisia in the dying days of 2010, and within a month, its president had fled the country. By then, the contagion had spread to Egypt, the largest Arab country. And after massive daily protests in the streets of Cairo and 850 deaths, the ruthless 30-year reign of President Hosni Mubarak was over. The public euphoria was overwhelming. And within another month, Egypt's military rulers were promising new parliamentary elections and ultimately an election for a new, maybe more democratic president. The sweeping emergency laws remained in military hands. This was to be no easy road to any kind of democracy. And right now, the outcome is still deeply uncertain. Tonight, we're going to take you inside Egypt's uprising as it unfolded.