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Lateline Business -

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(generated from captions) labour as exploitation or

anyone in a production line is involved

involved in Satanic activity is

not true. What lookslike a

production line is manned by

human beecks, there's a lot of

machinery, but there's human

skill and intelligence. You can

find meaning, beauty and find meaning, beauty and pride

in any job that you do. There's

a Catholic protestant divide,

in the Catholic view of work, in the Catholic view of

the most meaningful is be the

pope or work in a church, be a

clergyman in some way,

protestants say, "That can't be

the way it is", in the 17th

century in Europe they open a

huge space saying Luther says a

woman working in the yards

sweeping away leaves could be

doing as much much God's work

as a monk in a monastery, in

other words he was trying to

say it doesn't matter what you

are doing, it matters how you

do it, your attitude to it more

than one kind of meaningful

activity, strip away religious

super structure to the point

and it holds, we don't live in

a world where there's one kind

of meaningful job, so much of

if has to do with the way you

are doing it, there's brain

surgeons, when you see the way

they operate, sometimes you

come away with less respect

than the outward meaning would

seem to suggest, other times

people are running a cafe, you

look at the way they do it and

the attitude, and you think,

"This is unbelievable, this is

- all of life is here, it's

about serving people, helping

people, genuinely meaning: we

have to be aware of, "This is a

good job, and that is bad", Am

I being too bleak to say the

conclusion of your book is that

work has little meaning other

than to distract us from

impending debts. I do in the

last chapter raise a point

about distraction, but in a

positive way. People like me

coming from philosophical

background the idea is you

shouldn't be distracted, you

should retire to an ivory tower

and contemplate death,

meaningless of existence, I've

done a lot of that, and I've

come out of the tower, and

written about the work place, I

admire work for distracking us, admire work for distracking

some big questions have no

answers, we'll die, there's answers, we'll die, there's no

nice way around that, one of

the great things about work is

it focuses us on a goal which

we can achieve. We can in an

afternoon, few days, over a

month put together a project

for do something which will put

some of the chaos of the world

at bay, and be a beautiful

thing, an ordered thing,

systematic thing, and will keep

us focussed. That's something

we should welcome work for,

work is about order, ordering

the chaos, whether it's

ordering your kitchen, garden

or a massive data system for a

factory or something, you are

imposing order, that's something fundamental to the

human animal, and beautiful.

People talk about escaping

work, and say so and so escaped

into their work, escaping the

family problems into their

work, thank goodness we have

work to escape to, people

work to escape to, people are

able to achieve things in their

work that they can't achieve in

other areas of life. That's not

a bad thing, but shows we can

get it right in our work in

ways that we can't in other

areas. Thank you for coming in, areas. Thank you for coming

it was great to have you. Thank

you. The inquest into the

suicide of a 15-year-old girl suicide of a 15-year-old

in the remote Northern

Territory community of

Mutitjulu, has heard evidence

describing how she fell through

the net of welfare and health

workers, this and Children's Services workers, this afternoon Family

admitted more could have been

done to prevent the girl's death, Alice Brennan reports from Alice Springs

. Excruciating patho, that's

how the Northern Territory

Coroner described the suicide

of 15-year-old Kumanara Forbes

in Mutitjulu.

waited outside the courtroom While the girl's mother

too upset to enter, the inquest

heard from Susan Carlyle, the

teenager's case worker who

teenager's case worker who said

children had been overlooked by

the department, saying:

The inquest today heard The inquest today heard Ms

Carlisle face to face contacts

with the girl once in two

years, and was dealing with 118

cases simultaneously. Police

investigating claims of a sex for petrol trade in for petrol trade in Mutitjulu

interviewed the girl, they

warned FACS she was a child at warned FACS she was a child

risk and needed support, a

month later she attempted

suicide for the first time. The

head of FACS in Central Australia, Craig Wotherspoon,

admitted a breakdown in

communication between agencies communication between

plagued the Department at the time.

The inquest winds up

tomorrow. Now to the weather tomorrow. Now to the weather -

rain in Melbourne, Canberra and

Hobart showers? Adelaide, cloud

increasing in Sydney, fine in

Brisbane, Perth and

Darwin. That's all from us, Darwin. That's all from

Lateline Business coming up in

a moment. If you'd like to look

back at the interview back at the interview with

Alain de Botton, or review stories or transcripts visit

the web site at abc.net.au/lateline. abc.net.au/lateline. Now

Lateline Business with Ali

handouts the energy sector Moore. Tonight - enough

calls on the Government to work

on jobs instead. I'm not

convinced that the stimulus at

this point has been this point has been as

effective as what we would hope

it to be, I would also think

the infrastructure projects -

things that are Long lasting,

not short term, I hope there's

more emphasis on that. The

glass half empty, but for how

long, Japanese brewer Kirin

launches a full takeover of the launches a full takeover of

Lion Nathan. The Japanese

market has been pretty much

dead in terms of volume dead in terms of volume growth

over the last decade or so, over the last decade or

they are looking for they are looking for growth.

This is the most obvious one,

obviously they own 46% of

that. And sliding property

values put a dent in the

profits of Stockland,

Australia's second largest

property trust. That's why property trust. That's why a

lot of development projects are

on the books at too high a

level. They need to be brought

back a bit. To the markets, and

shrugging aside Wall Street's

overnightfall and the latest dire economic forecasts

Australian shares enjoyed a big

one-day rise in a fortnight one-day rise in a fortnight the

All Ords maintaining early

momentum, rising 67 paints, ASX

adding 2%, the Nikkei turning

around early losses closing

1.5% higher, Hong Kong's Hang

Seng climbing 2% ending a 2-day

losing street and in London the

FTSE gained 5%. The Australian

beer and wine industry may have

more of an Asian flavour,

Japanese brewer Kirin launched

a bid for the shares in

Australia's second biggest

brewer Lyon r that it doesn't

own, it's a deal that - Lion

Nathan, that it doesn't own.

It's a deal worth $2.5 It's a deal worth $2.5 billion,

Lion Nathan is in a trading

halt while it considers the 46%

offer from Kirin. Lion Nathan

has been an attractive

proposition to Japanese

brewers, Kirin is Japan's No.2

brewer and wants to soak up 54%

of shares in Australasian

company enjoying a duopoly in

Australia with Fosters

Group. Kirin is looking for

acquisition to buy basically

growth that they are not having

in the Japanese market. The

Japanese market has been dead

in terms of volume in terms of volume growth over

the last decade or so. We know

Kirin is aquistive at the

moment, it's long-term strategy

is to increase a proportion of

its sales outside its domestic

mark. Lion Nathan asked to a

trading halt after it received

Kirin's offer on Wednesday. In

a statement they say:

In February, Lion Nathan

scrapped a bid for soft drinks

maker Coca cxola Amatel,

something that might be on the

table if the Kirin acquisition

is successful. The deal if

completed gives the new entity ammunition for a bid ammunition for a bid for Coca

cxola Amatel, giving it 60% of

Australia's $7 billion software

market. Such a move is

unlikely, but analysts predict

it could happen this year. I

think somewhere down the line

this is not the last deal we'll

see in the Aussie beverage

mark. Whether the combination of Kirin and Coca cxola Amatel

makes sense, or Coca cxola Amatel Fosters combination

makes sense, they are probably

the two most logical deals,

it's certainly not the it's certainly not the last

deal out there. But the deal out there. But the Kirin

Lion Nathan combination would need approval from

need approval from the Foreign Investment Review Board, and

the ACCC, the Competition

Watchdog confirming it will

review the buyout if it goes

ahead, although Vickie

Melbourne of Fitch rating

doesn't see it as a hurdle:

Coca cxola Amatel and its

joint venture partner is

looking to make inroads into

that market and there are

smaller players as smaller players as well. I

don't think this acquisition

will lessen get will lessen get eggs. Lion

Nathan shares are in a trading

halt at $8.31. Coca-Cola Amatil

rose to $8.83, and Fosters

gaining 7% to finish at $5.20.

The slowdown hit for one of

Australia's largest property

groups, Stockland slashing

profit forecasts with full-year earnings slashed by

three-quarters, because of

sliding property values here

and overseas. Andrew Robertson

reports. The weeks between

Easter and the end of the

financial year are known as confession season, when

management owns up to bad news

before the full-year

before the full-year results,

Stockland has become the latest

in an increasingly long line of Australia's biggest companies

to come clean and admit that

times are tougher than it

thought even just a few weeks

ago. So on a post impairment

basis the

basis the FY9 quitance for EPS

is 10 cent. Equating to $170

million, 21% of last year's

result of $705 million. Stockland invests in

and operates residential,

retail, commercial and industrial property in

Australia and the United

Kingdom, and for property

sector watchers sector watchers like

Constellation Capital Richard Morris, the

Morris, the downgrade was no

surprise. I think the surprise. I think the slowdown

in the residential market pre

the first home buyer grant, I

think that's meant a lot of

development projects were on

the books at too high a level.

They needed to be brought

back, Brought back they were, Stocklands expecting second

half write-downs of up to $280

million on Australian

residential projects, $120

million off British asset

values, pre-tax profit from the

Australian residential unit is

expected to be 60 million lower

with the biggest drag a

development brought at Wallarah

on the NSW Central Coast at the

top of the market. We underestimated the challenges

that exist in a coastal

environmental

development. Stockland had more

bad news for investors, with

the revelation that from next

year it's going back to the

future and linking distributions directsly to

earnings. The company has

indicated that when they indicated that when they aren't

able to sell buildings and

properties for higher prices

than they bought, that they

won't be using borrowings to

sustain dividend payments at

previous levels. Despite a

downgrade Stockland is

performing better than most

property players, which is why

alts like Tim Morris are not

critical of the way the company

is managed. They avoid ed a lot

of excesses that drove a lot of

property players, such assist

Centro and CTP to Centro and CTP to oblivion,

they are holding up well. It

wouldn't have been too much of

a surprise and a surprise and Stockland

announced a capital raising to

further shore up its balance

sheet. If conditions in the

property sector continue to

rapidly deteriorate it may have

to rethink that position. It'll

depend on how close they get to

the debt covenance, which

depends on where property

values go and underlying

earnings, there's a decent

buffer, I wouldn't rule it

out. Stocklands has Lee way

under the debt governance,

investors are not sure, marking

securities down 6%. Faced with the worst recession the worst recession since World

War II the British Government

yesterday unveiled a Budget

covered with red ink,

highlighting the toxic state of

the economy Chancellor Alistair

Darling predicted growth will

shrink 3.5% this year, and

unveiled a record level of

public borrowing. Our own

figures for public sector net

borrowing will be ?175 billion,

12% of GDP. As a result,

Britain will issue 220 billion

of Government bonds over the

next 12 months , that's well

above market expectations. For analysis of the Budget and

other stories, I'll joined from

London by Nick Parsons, head of

market strategy at market strategy at the National

Australia Bank. What do you

make of Alistair Darling's

second Budget. Good evening, I

think he's got to be given

credit for facing up to the

reality of the size of the reality of the size of the hole

we are in, he's forecast and

admitted we are going to shrink

3.5%, the wories that 3.5%, the wories that the

markets have or the share, is

that he's been overoptimistic

for the next few years, forecasting that when we come

out of the recession, out of the recession, the

United Kingdom will show three

consecutive years of growth of

3.75%, we never saw that at the

top of the boom. Yet in order

to get borrowing figures

showing on a downward path, he

has to put in fancy assumptions

and quite simply the markets

don't believe hem. That's a significantly optimistic than

the IMF, who sees the UK greeg

at a rate of half a per

cent. The IMF is looking for

two years of slump, the

Chancellor by contrast thinks

this will be a V shaped

recession, we'll go down and as

quickly as we went in, we'll

roar out with all guns blazing

and be back to the levels of

growth we never saw at the

growth we never saw at the top

of the boom. We don't believe

it. What are investors it. What are investors making

of it. Investors are rightly

becoming more nervous about the

pound and bond markets, the

pound has fallen in the last 24

hours against the major

currencies, if you look against

the Australian dollar, when the

chancellor stood up we traded

at 207.50. We hit a low of

203.48. Less than two cent

above the lowest point that we

have seen at all in 2009. So

the global investors are giving

Stirling a bit of a kicking,

and are doing the same for the

bond market, 10-year bonds bond market, 10-year bonds down

around 2 points, meaning yields

at the long end of the mark are

up between 18 and 22 basis

points, there's a lot of

scepticism in the markets. The

FTSE is higher, I'll guessing

it's nothing to do with the

Budget. That's right the FTSE

and European markets move in

lock step with the US, we are

coming to the end of the

quarterly reporting season in

the United States, there's not

been too many horror shows,

generally the results haven't

really unsettled investors, and

the early call for now, the

market will open in about 14-15

minutes time, the early call is

for the Dow to be up around 50

points, S&P up around six. In

percentage Europe is following

that. Over the weekend the G7

and G-20 Finance Ministers

meeting that washes, Wayne Swan

on his way there, what specifically, specifically, behind the global

financial crisis, what is on

the table? If you cast your

mind back a couple of weeks to

the G-20 Summit in London, all

the global Finance Ministers

agreed there'd be an increase

in capital for the IMF. There's

a lot of discussions about

exactly who is going to

contribute to that, what the

various shares of that will be,

and also they'll be looking at increasing roles on financial

supervision, and we'll be

looking at possibly a broader

role for the SDR the special

drawing right, the currency

that the IMF has no no-one

uses, you can't spend them in

the shops, but any discussion

about SDRs will lead to fears

about changing reserve currencies and the future of

the US dollar and those sorts

of things. I suggest that those

talks will be very much behind

closed doors, they don't want

to air that dirty washing in

public, what they'll try to do

instead is focus on the

recovery even though the IMF

think it will be muted than the national Foreign Ministers

would seem to hope to claim. As

you say, it is about confidence, Nick Parsons,

thanks for joining us. You are

welcome. To the major movers on

our market. Rio Tinto jumping

6% on speculation BHP Biliton

may launch another takeover

bid. Santos advance 4%, first

quarter production dropping 4%.

The oil and knas producer

maintained full- - gas producer

maintained full-year cost

guidance. Austar United rising

over 1%, the Government

approved Minmetals revised $1.7

bill won for Patrick Azimkar

after the close of trade, but

imposed conditions including

the safeguarding of up to 2,000 jobs. On currency:

gold half a percent higher.

Well, against the backdrop of

a stalling economy, business is

keenly watching preparations

for the forthcoming for the forthcoming Federal

Budget with preserving jobs not

just the catchcry of

policitians, one such business

is Woodside, the biggest

independent oil and gas

producer, with more than 3,000

employees, and tens of

thousands of crackers on its

books, last year Woodside

Petroleumside was hit with a

new tax in the Federal Budget.

This year they are looking for

no more surprises and increased

spending on infrastructure,

woodside has been a critic. Emissions Trading Scheme, but

says with changes, it should be

passed not abandoned. Woodside

Petroleumside CEO Don Voelte

joined me earlier. Welcome joined me earlier. Welcome to

Lateline Business. Good

evening. You are joining us

from Canberra where, no doubt,

the state. Economy forms some

part of the background to your

discussions today. Are you as

negative as the IMF,

particularly on Australia,

where growth is forecast to

decline by 1.4%, with the decline by 1.4%, with the risk

to the Downside. I travelled to

other parts of the world, I

think Australia is weathering

this well. Clearly the IMF told

us what we knew that, is us what we knew that, is that

we are in a recession, but I

think Australia's fairly well

placed, the banks are in better

position, and the businesses

are in a better position are in a better position to

weather the storm than a lot of

other places around the

globe. What about globe. What about globally,

what was your impression with

your travelling. Yeah, well, I

travelled about 4-5 months ago

and thought the US and Europe

especially Great Britain

prosecutor in pretty dire

straits. The last time through,

two or three weeks ago, I will

say asaw sparks of life in the

US, people there are tired of

taking this, and want to turn

it around on their own, they

are addressing a lot of issues,

in Europe I saw kind of a dour

mood and basically a little bit

still tough way to go. What

does it mean for your sector,

it has to be said while the oil

price is down two-thirds from a

peak, it seems to have dare I

say stabilised at around 50 US

a barrel. It wasn't so many

years ago that $50 oil looks

good, it's right, costs had

increased during the boom

period, and companies that were

successful in not letting the

costs creep into the business

will do better than those that

did. For the oil price did it

sit or hold at 50 for some time

to come. It will stay low or at

50, if that's low in people's

mind for some time here. I

don't see a strong demand,

basically the economies have to

get healthier, we have to see

this upturn after the long U

shaped recession, and I think

that there won't be a real

structural supply, demand

issues that take place, but I'm

one that believes that so much

supply may come off the

marketplace that after two or

three years that the upturn -

we could be a volatile time for

pricing of the oil pricing of the oil commodity

over the next 3-5 years. Many

talk about sewing the seeds of

the next oil bubble. Do the next oil bubble. Do you

think you could do that think you could do that looking

the a the production. If you

look at the counts in North

America, and the investments in the Middle East and other the Middle East and other areas

around the world, I think for

the short term there's oil to

be had, but it doesn't take

much, all the major much, all the major oilfields

in the world are in a decline,

without further capital

investment I believe that

supply-demand will come back to

an upturn for economies around

the world, especially if the world, especially if most

of the WorldCom out at the same

time as the recession, that

there could be shortages again

, in a short period, so

volatility will be the key. If

we can bring the discussion

back to Australia, the last

Budget, of course, included

nasty surprises for the likes

of Woodside with the

introduction of the excise on

condensate. What do you want to

see in the Budget this year,

against a background of a

Government saying there will be

more stimulus. I hope there's

no nasty surprises for us this

year. In this Budget, we expect

to see surplus, we expect to

see massive deficits built

see massive deficits built in to the Australian to the Australian Budget. Does

that make you

uncomfortable. Yes, it does, I

guess the - I am not convinced

that the stimulus at this point

has been as effective as has been as effective as we

hope it to be. I would think

that the infrastructure project

s that are long lasting, not

short term, I hope there's short term, I hope there's more

emphasis on that. Do you feel

that today there's been

frittering? Well, I am not

qualified to say that, but I

would hope that the stimulus

packages are built more around

jobs, and job creation , I

think that is the key an awful

lot of things happen when

people lose their jobs, in

these downturns, we do

everything we can to keep the

employees at Woodside employed

and power through the recession

with our poodle project. We

have 20-25,000 contractors

employed at this point in time

going through. I would hope the

Government looks at the

long-term infrastructure-type

projects to create long-term

employment, I think that's the employment, I think that's

key to building a strong future. What about future. What about an Emissions Trading Scheme, you have

accused the Government of

ignoring business concerns,

saying it will cost jobs, do

you hold to those arguments, do

you get any indication that you

are having an impact. We were

first out of the box on raising

concerns about the proposed -

at that time green paper, I

think we came out about the day

after. Over the months, we saw

an awful lot of people joump on

to our position, in fact, now

there's frankly is seems like

an abandonment of support for the draft legislation, the draft legislation, the

devil is in the details,

although we got support from a

60% allocation of permits for

Alan Gee, that impacts our

business, we read into the

details and definitions for

some of our projects, those

allocations may be as low as

20-30%, not anywhere near the

60% that were indicated. I

would say that I think the

Government has let the Prime

Minister down on what his original intention of the

program was, to protect the

country's jobs and businesses country's jobs and

that are energy intensive

export exposed. So what should

the Government do, do

nothing? Well, I think that's

actually the wrong answer. I

think if you put it yourself

into a thinking person's

situation, we watched this for

several months evolve, everyone

has abandoned the unions, the

resource industry, I mean resource industry, I mean I

don't know of anybody that's

supporting the proposal that's

on the table. They've abandoned it for different reasons. That's correct, I

think we have to work with it. think we have to work with

I think the uncertainy of not

having a program is worse than

abandon ing a program

completely, I would think we

need to include need to include amendments, I

don't think it takes much to

salvage the program. I would

say yes, we could agree for one

or two, 3-year delay of

implement ation, until we get

through COPE and see what the

roast of the world does, and

get harsh storms that we go

through economically, so we

don't lose jobs until we embark

upon this, so actually, probably surprisingly to the

viewers, we are not against the

passage of legislation, we just

think it has to be finetuned to

not reduce jobs and increase

utility bills, doing the things

that this draft legislation

will probably do. Don Voelte,

thanks for joining us.

Creditors of the stricken

White good company Kleenmaid White good company

have been told they are

unlikely to recoup their

losses, customers, employees,

franchisees and banks are

lining up to recover debts from

the Queensland company which

collapsed into voluntary

administration this month, owing tens of owing tens of millions,

Charlotte Glennie has the

story. They were all innocent

customers paying for new home

appliances which they never

received, some had put deposits

down, others paid in full,

waying for their goods. We

cancelled the order five weeks

ago, five weeks to refund a

deposit, so my opinion is that

they have stolen $4,000. We are

owed $25,000, we paid in

full. More than 4,000 disgruntled customers are owed

$27 million, money they are

unlikely to see again. Never

say never, but it looks

difficult for them. . Company

founded by washing founded by washing machine

repair man Andrew Young is in

strife. The deficiency between

assets and liabilities at book

value is in the order of about

$70 million, it will probably

go, it will increase as claims

are registered with us.

Today's meeting has taken

place behind closed doors with

all journalists refused entry,

one by one unsecured creditors

are emerging scribing the

atmosphere as volatile There's

no point staying, there's no

money, we are unsecured.

Westpac is the main secured

creditor ode $27.5 million,

Kleenmaid owes $60 million to

suppliers, and $3 million to

150 employees who are out of work with their superannuation

in jeopardy. We have Andrew

Lofthouse earnings, wages, holidays. Kleenmaid's

administrators are investing

claims the company traded while

insolvent. Unable to refinance

half a billion debt

agribusiness investor

Timbercorp called in the

administrators, they manage

120,000 hectares and

horticulture assets, and since

1992 has invested more than $2

billion in projects. Now all

its operations have been halted

why administrator Korda Mentha

explores funding options, last

week Timbercorp warned its

future was in doubt unless it

could refinance its debt. The

recession continues to batter

the car industry, new car sales

have fallen for the third

straight month down 3% in March

as consumers reign in spending

car sales plummeted 20% over

the past 12 months, the weakest

annual growth rate on records.

Australians may not be buying

cars but petrol sales are

holding up. Australia's largest

oil refiner Caltex held an AGM

expressing cautious optimism

despite volatile oil prices,

posting an 111% increase to 97

million, Caltex predicted it

will benefit from an

anticipated consolidation of

the local industry with invest

ors embracing the news Caltex

shares ended at $9.95. The diary diary -

The Before we go a look at what's making news in the

business sections of tomorrow's

paper, The Herald Sun examines Timbercorp's slide no

administration. The Australian

- Kirin's bid for outright

control of Lion control of Lion Nathan, The

Financial Review - damning

court judgment against former

executives of executives of Hardie. Sydney

Morning Herald - covering the

same story. That's all for

tonight. As I leave you Nick

Parsons said the Dow futures

pointed to a rise of 50 points,

it's down 5 points. The FTSE

trading up 21 points, or half a

goodnight. per cent. I'm Ali Moore,

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CROWD CHEERS # Every breath you take # Every move you make

# Every vow you break # Every step you take # I'll be watching you # Every breath you take # Every vow you break # I'll be watching you

# Plea-ea-ea-ease stay # Don't go # Plea-ea-ea-ease stay. # APPLAUSE Tonight's guest on Spectacle are a trio. They consist of a jazz-loving guitarist, a progressive rock drummer, and a bass-playing lutenist and singer. Having pursued very different paths for nearly 25 years, they reunited in 2007 to embark upon an incredibly successful world tour, that will conclude the day after this show is recorded. The end is nigh! Ladies and felons, please say 'allo, 'allo, 'allo for the last time on television, to The Police. CROWD CHEERS Was it something I said? LAUGHTER THEME MUSIC When I was a kid, my dad signed with a radio dance band, and it was a treat for me if I got to attend the broadcast, and even meet some of the big groups who also appeared on the show. On the sorry days when I was obliged to go to school, I used to get my poor dad to get autographs from the guest artist, which must have been pretty mortifying for him. So, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, let me present Exhibit A - the signatures of the very fine organ-led R&B combo, Zoot Money And The Big Roll Band. And in their number, a young guitar player who must have been barely out of his teens, Mr Andy Summers. CROWD CHEERS Andy, welcome to Spectacle, and thank you very much. Fabulous to be here. Now, in The Big Roll Band, you were tucked in the rhythm section a little bit, and you got only a few chances to solo, but you did get to play behind John Lee Hooker, Solomon Burke, and people such as that. Yeah. Well, I played that club, in The Flamingo, a club called The Flamingo in the West End of London, which heavily featured R&B, and they would bring people in like John Lee Hooker or people like that, anybody that came and performed in England. Anyway, we'd sort of come and jam at The Flamingo, and we were the resident band, a rhythm and blues band, so we often got to play behind these guys.

And they didn't always bring their own musicians, did they? No. Sometimes it was just a lead singer. You kind of had to know their material already, a lot of which we did. Now, without... I don't know necessarily if the camera will pick up, you have incorporated the magic of the fingers with effects, and it's become a signature part of your sound and The Police, but for a lot of guitar players it was just one cable into an amp in the early '60s, and when Hendrix came, that was a small amount of effects, it must have been quite a revelation.

You saw him and knew him at that time, didn't you? Yes, I did. I was very much around he sort of birth of Jimi Hendrix, which really happened in London, England. Of course, he was playing in the States, it was actually New York, but it was when he was brought to London by Chas Chandler, the bass player with The Animals, his career really took off. And I was part of that whole scene, so I witnessed it. But with Jimi, it was like a whole new paradigm of guitar-playing that just about blew everyone out of the water. There was a lot of us playing guitar in London and sort of trying to be virtuosos, but this guy set a whole new standard,