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(generated from captions) and mostly sunny Sunday and Monday, The outlook is for a fine, mild partly cloudy on Tuesday

and perhaps unsettled conditions of the region later in the week. as a trough passes south In the mountains, above 1,400m. a few light showers falling as snow of -5 to 3. A temperature range The probability of snow - and 60% tomorrow. 30% tonight Virginia. of our top story tonight. Before we go, a brief recap

new federal terrorism legislation, The first Australian convicted under Jack Terrence Thomas, is a free man upheld his appeal. after a Victorian court Stateline is next. And that's ABC News. Goodnight. Enjoy your evening. International Pty Ltd Captioning and Subtitling Closed Captions provided by This program

is captioned live.

Hello and welcome to

Stateline. I'm Mark Bannerman.

Coming up, two Canberra heroes

getting back in the saddle and

Braidwood's Franklin winner.

First let's take a look into

the future. This week the

national capital authority

released plans for what it

describes as a re

vitalisisation of the city

centre. It plans involve major

developments at City Hill, West

Basin and Constitution Avenue.

The debate was kicked off a

couple of years ago on this

program and others when Civic

traders and customers complained that the city heart

was simply a disgrace. Terry

Snow and Minister Simon Corbell

put out their options for

redevelopment. Now we have a

compromise plan but will this

deliver the brave new world for

Canberra? The intense rivalry

between Sydney and Melbourne

produced one extraordinary idea

- that neither city should be

the capital of the Commonwealth

of Australia, but that a new

city should be built from

scratch. By any measure it was

a grand plan, not just a city

made to measure but a great

city with a beating heart.

There's just one problem

though, 100 years on Civic

passes for Canberra's heart and

more than a few people think it

might need a bit of surgery.

The Griffin plan adopted biure

federation fathers has not been

fully realised. This is

grotty. Here's an example of

landlords, in my opinion, being

responsible for that. That's

just like going to work with

dirty shoes. You've got the

alleyways again. I've seen it

from this way but there's the

other way. From the other way

there's the sudden apology from

city centre and then it's gone

because you've ziBed out the

other end so you're not sure.

Was there a city centre here

somewhere? You know. Now the

national capital authority has

created a plan that will change

the way the people of Canberra

see and use the centre of their

city and what a plan it is. The

most radical proposal involves

City Hill, the isolated park

strangled by a high-speed

thoroughfare will become the

heart of a city in the way the

designers intended it. The West

Basin becomes the hit citizeny's Darling Harbour and

Constitution Avenue becomes a

boulevard flanked by apartments

and restaurants, a sort of

latte row. Little wonder

Ministers and developers were

lining up after the strategy

launch to sing its praises. I

think it's fantastic and is

good to see we're rolling up

our sleeves and getting on with

the job of coming to grips with

the issues. What is it that

most excites you about the

development? The development

of West Basin is is very

exciting aspect of the Griffin

legacy and the fact we're

bringing the city down to the

lake, there will be boardwalks

and cafe xz the possibility of

accommodation there. It is a very exciting part of the

project. But as with so many

great plans, the devil might

well be in the detail. The

certainly the most contentious

part of this idea will be the

decision to move the centre of

the city from Civic to City

Hill. It's a big call but as

the MCA's Graham Scott-Bohanna

explains, there is is a

reason. It is about realising

the ideas originally designed

by Griffin. This is what he

intended and it is remarkable

how well it fits with the

cultures of Australian cities

today. Could this be true?

Would Walter burly Griffin

really want high-rise all

around City Hill? If it grows

in the way we hope, Vernon

Circle would be a local street

and not a round-about. There

will be car parking on Vernon

Circle, there will be coffee

shops and kiosks and so on in

the park and you will be able

to go to the park and have your

lunch. You might work on one

side of City Hill and live on

the other. You will be able to

stand an City Hill and look

down Commonwealth Avenue and

get the vist taw to Parliament

House, just as you can look down ed bruavenue. The

connection to the structure of

the city will be obvious and

the place will be alive because

you have a sense of

enclosure. On the face of it it

is marvellously appealing. Does

it stack up? Patrick Troy is

regarded for his expertise in

urban design and he has his

doubts. According to the model

we saw, basically all around us

now would be buildings come 35

or 20 years. What's the

consequence of that for you?

First of all I don't think it's

going to happen. Setting that

aside? If it happened, it

would be absolutely disastrous

for Belconnen, Woden and

Tuggeranong and it would

totally kill off any chansz of

growth in Gungarlan. How is

that and why is that? I say

that because it is possible to

conceive the -- impossible to

conceive the population of this

city will grow that much in 20

years to warrant that type of

development and if it did grow

that much you wouldn't want it

concentrated here. The Griffin

legacy and growth projections

aside, the idea of placing the

centre of the city at a point

where now thousands of vehicles

speed out to Commonwealth

Bridge is daring. If I read it

correctly, the notion of coming in from Parliament House or

from the avenue and speeding

through what we call the city

centre, in a sense that's going

to be gone? Thwart. Let's look

at that. Basically you've got

all the north-south traffic

coming down here and shooting

around here, what's effectively

a raceway. They're saying take

it around outside London

Circuit. What is the

consequence for the ACT in the

sense of doing that? One of the things at the moment is

this is a raceway and it's

difficult to cross and it does

isolate this small parcel of

land but the moment you turn

London Circuit into a raceway

you've actually buggered the

whole lot. Of course to be fair

to the NCA, the idea of

building a city centre goes

hand in hand with a land bridge

being build on to Parkes Way,

allowing the land to spill to

the shores at West Basin. One

of the pieces of logic here is

if you go to any city in

Australia or many cities in the

world that are on the sea or a

river or else' where, they talk

about and utilise their

connection with the water. On

the face of it, Patrick, what

we have here is pretty

seductive because you've got a

great stretch of water. You

could have shops along here and

apartments and it seems like a

good idea at one level, does

want it? If you like

Disneyland stuff, it's that

sort of exercise. That's a bit

harsh, isn't it? No, it is an

expensive Disney land, not a

Disneyland for the hoiz puloy.

This would be housing on the

lake edge for exclusive people

of great taste...well. This of

course sets out to solve the

problem of what to do with

Civic. You might think it would

be forgotten in the rush. Not

so says the Minister. I

disagree. I have heard that

comment a number of times. I

believe it enhances Civic as

the centre of Canberra. I

think it is Civic. The idea is

it won't all be suddenly - it

won't abandons what's

built. Quite definite ly says

Patrick Troy. The city as we

know it and have been planning

and building it would be

destroyed. I think the whole

exercise is a fantasy land

exercise. Terry Snow, overall

how many marks does it get out

of 10? I think it is close to

10 out of 10. There's only one

thing you know about a plan or

a model and that is it will

never happen. And I can say

with some confidence that the

idea that we're going to get

such growth is going to lead

for the demand for this space

in this way, won't happen in my

lifetime, which may not be very

long, but it certainly won't

happen in your lifetime either

and you're much younger than


In 2003 when fires engulfed

the equestrian centre at

Chapman, Niki Van Buuren was

badly burnt trying to save her

horse. She only just survived,

her horse did not. Two years

later Canberra jockey Ray

Silburn fell from his horse

during a race and be came a quadriplegic. You would have

thought horses would be the

last thing on their minds, not

a bit. They have been appointed

patrons of the Pegasus

Foundation, riding for the disabled. Catherine Garrett

joined them at the Pegasus

stables. There was a stage

when I didn't want to look at

another horse again. That

didn't last long. You get

involved in a bit of an accident. That's racing. It was

the part I loved. I loved the

competitiveness. No, I've still

got my love of horses. Go. Go.

Good boy. It's amazing

watching these kids ride. Particularly you saw the young

boy on backwards in the last

lesson. They get so much out of

it too. Very, very good

physical therapy, riding

horses. He needs to hold the

hair and then he can hop off.

Coming here and looking at

this, it's not their

disabilities, it's their

abilities to be able to achieve

things that nobody would thing

they can achieve. And these new

Pegasus Foundation patrons live

their lives in the same way. In

the 2003 Canberra bushfires,

Niki Van Buuren was badly burnt

trying to rescue her own

horses, while a shocking fall

at the Black Opal Carnival in

Canberra last year left former

jockey Ray Silburn a

quadriplegic but they never

stopped loving horses and now

they want to share that passion

with these young riders. The

horses do such wonderful things

for them because they don't

answer back and they don't yell

at you and they don't tell you

what's wrong with you, they

just are always happy to see

you. They accept who you are

rather than what you are, if

that makes sense. The funny

thing is there are actually

more scars on me from

motorbikes than horses. I came

off once at Equestrian Park on

the cross country krOrs, did a

cartwheel and landed on my

feet. My friends were cheering.

They thought it was cool. In

their role as patrons, they

want to raise money and

awareness for Pegasus. So many people have been past Pegasus

and don't even realise it's

here. You see these kids and

you just get overwhelmed by

what they can achieve and just

in their self-esteem and their

physical wellbeing, it's just

wonderful. So, if I can help,

you know, on my profile -

helping these kids is what I

love to do. I'm always

going to try to find the right

horse for the kids so it's not

just throwing a kid on a horse

and going, "This will do." It's

more the staff and the

volunteers trying to find the

right character horse for the

right character kid. With a

long waiting list of riders

wanting to participate in the

programs and plans to employ a

carriage driver for those who

can't get on a horse, more

money is needed. Many people

don't understand the costs

involved in purchasing a horse

and running a horse. We pay

from $1500 to $5,000 to

purchase a horse and it costs

about $2000 for the year just

to run the horse for the year.

We've been in this location for

30 years. The facilities have

grown over that time but

there's certainly a lot of

maintenance that needs be done

on the buildings but not only

that, we're operate a 100-acre

property as well. We've got

fences, waterers, all kinds of

farm costs and expenses ing

running Pegasus as well as the

service provision side. We're

quite a complex organisation. And a healing

place that offers joy and learning to Canberra's most

vulnerable. This is the sort

of place that people don't

concentrate on what's wrong

with you, they - you get to

show what you can do rather

than what you can't. And that's

always very important for

people who have disabilities. A

major challenge facing Niki Van

Buuren since the fires has been

getting back in the horse's

saddle. She's done it and she

credits Pegasus and horse

Spinner for both the

achievement and the happiness

it's brought her. If it

wasn't for Pegasus and Spinner,

I certainly don't think I would

have come as far as I have. I

ride Spinner with a pair of

stirrup reigns which attach

from the bit to the outside of

the stirrup. I steer with my

legs and she's slowly getting

used to the idea of the contact

being lower down than normal

but it's not as easy as it

sounds. I've come a lot further

than I think a lot of people

have anticipated. I've now got

my licence and I've just bought

a new horse of my own. I feel

that my life is finally getting

back to normal. In the last two

years I've gone back to school

and I'm about to graduate at

the end of the year and will be

going out to the workforce

which is probably the biggest

aim that I had after my injury,

is that I didden want to sit at

home and do nothing for the

rest of my life. I wanted to

get back into it. So it's

finally coming together really.

Even somebody saying, "No,

you will never be able to do

something," it's always good inspiration because you say,

"Well, I'm going to do that

just to prove you wrong." My

life story. Mine too.

A gutsy performance all

round. Sex, money and power

should be a winning combination

for a best seller but this year

a book with those components

won the Franklin literary

award. Called 'The Ballad of

Desmond Kale' it was written by

local writer Roger McDonald who

has been nominated several

times before and has produced a

diverse body of work. He's paid

his dues, so much so that in

the 1980s when he felt he had

nothing more to say or write,

he simply gave up writing

altogether and worked as a

sheerer's cook. He tracked him

down on his property outside

Braidwood. Roger McDonald, how

would you describe yourself?

Where we're sitting right now

is the place where I feel most

myself, you know. What is that

though? Who is that? It's

somebody who can sort of, you

know, pick up one of these

leaves or, you know, walk over

it and hear the crackle of it

and the break of twigs and the

smell of - I'm never more at

home with a bit of a whiff of

fire smoke and a kind of

slightly inland feel. I just

love the solitude and the spiritual connection, you could

call it. So what drew you to

sphwlieing It's funny, my

earliest -- What drew you to

writing? It's funny, my

earliest memory was that I

lived in a small town which was

hardly a town and my earliest

memories on the veranda of the

house was looking out over a

paddock of dry grass and not

much was happening, maybe the

call of a crow and so on and I

think I started to sort of want

to fill up empty spaces with, I

suppose I wouldn't call them

stories so much, just kind of an imaginative life

somehow. There was an episode,

I think, when a teacher told

you to go outside and read your

composition to the class. Was

that pretty heady stuff in

those days? I love the feeling

of being listened to. As a kid

in a family you often feel

you're not being listened to,

everybody else is getting air

space and you're not. You were

initially drawn to poetry.

Why? With poetry, that's where

I began really looking back

over my shoulder into the

Australian countryside, you

know. The sense that who you

are and what you feel in the

Australian countryside can be a

valid beginning point for

writing and you can fill that

up with stories and words and

dreams and my poetry started

off trying to evoke thosats

fears and then after a little

while, by the time I was in my

30s I found writing poetry too

restrictive. I wanted more

voices and dramatic action and

clash and broader scale. That's

when I wrote '1915' about

Australians going to Gallipoli.

"From high in the gullies came

a rifle shot. The men listened.

An infantry man with a dish of

stew allowed it to dribble and

stain his trousers as he

staired upwards. In a few

seconds the first shot was

joined by others, the popping

of kindling at the start of a

blaze." Tell me about that,

why did you choose '1915', why

Gallipoli, why that story?

It's very different now but

then - and we're going back

maybe 25, almost 30 years when

that novel started to occur to

me. It was a story that needed

retelling. It had come a little

bit stale. It was a kind of

returned soldiers league which

was a dominant voice in

Australian culture then, it had

it as its preserve and I wanted

to get it back to a simple

story of individual hope and

followed by tragedy and growing

up into a different way of

thinking. After '1915', it

might have seemed like for you

as a writer the sky was the

limit but I do also get the

sense that over time after that

there was a sense of

frustration that you hadn't

quite made it big. Was that an

issue? No, it wasn't an issue.

I never had anxiety about

making it big and I still

don't. It's not part of my

thinking. What I really love

with writing is connecting to

readers and being read. When

people come up to me, complete

strangers, and saying, "You

know, that book of yours, it

took me a little why while to

get into it but boy, once I

connected it really spoke to

me." There came a period of

time in your 40s when you moved

to give up writing. Why? I

wanted to turn my back, not

necessarily give it up

completely but for a while I

wanted to turn my back on

writing and live a life of more

doing, you know. And at that

stage, I was kind of interested

in the travelling life of the

shearing industry. Is this mid

life crisis? I would say

looking back - I didn't think

of it so much then, it was

something overwhelming that I

wanted to do but I would say

that's what you feel when you

have a mid life crisis. This is

a tough decision for a man with

a family, isn't it? Yes. How

do you look back on it now? I

look back on it as a

manifestation of wanting to

bring new feeling into my life

and if that's a mid life

crisis, fine. And I think it

was, but I also found turning

my back to writing and trying

to learn a rough skill like Abu

Bakar Bashirer's cooking was --

- shear er's cooking was

something you had to work all

year to do. Did that create a

new balance in your life? I

think in the earlier first

stage of life, especially for

men, there's a more career

oriented type of feeling and

even though as a writer I had

an unusual career, I wasn't on

executive of general motors or

anything like that, I wasn't

bounds to a career ladder, I

still identified who I was with

what I did and I think when I

moved past that I identified

myself as an individual looking

around me, who also wrote. The

writing didn't dominate me. I

think I'm a better writer for

that. After Desmond Kale was

flogged for stealing a rake, he

was cut from the punishment

tree and command to walk the 10

miles back to the prison

stockade. So famous was his

conceit in Botany Bay, he was

ord ered to walk in ankle

irons, holding his chains in

his fists. Let me take you back

- where did that book begin?

It's hard to isolate one actual

point but I would say it really

began looking a bit closer into

wool, into a bundle of

wool. Really? Yes, just

looking into the structure of

that and the beauty of it . It

is a mythical, magical

substance. One of the technical

terms for wool among wool

classes is that it's imperishable. We know that

nothing in life is imperishable

and yet there is spiritual

things that go on that live

from generation to generation

that aren't imperishable and

wool somehow intensely came to

represent that for me when I

started thinking about this

book and around that I built

characters and places and a

story. And then something else

of course happens as soon as

there is money to be made and

power to be had. Yes. It's

very much a novel about sex,

money and power, isn't it?

You're right, it is. Sounds

like an airport novel. And the

way that people are at each

other's throats in that book,

you know, like the authority

figure, the Reverend Matthew

Stanton who is a Minister and

magistrate and a brilliant

reader of sheep for wool,

versus the held-down convict

without any rights, Desmond

Kale, and yet these people are

from the opposite ends of a

little forming society, they're

totally at each other's

throats. They hate each other

to almost the point of death

and yet they're both entranced

by this magical, mythical,

alchemical substance that has

the power to change their lives

and maybe even bring them

together and the reader might

find out how that

happens. Winning the Franklin

award must be good, I guess.

Does it mean all the rest now

is cream? No, because I've had

successes with books before and

that's faded. A friend of mine

said to me a few years ago with

one of my novels that got

attention, he said, "Gee, you're famous now." I said,

"I've been famous before." No,

I've been around the stump too

many times for that to give me

a swelled head. And that's

nearly it for the program and

for me. I'm going home to

Sydney and and to the '7:30

Report'. Philip Williams will

be back in a couple of weeks.

In the meantime Catherine

Garrett will be keeping you

company. Thanks for having me

and before we go a little bit

of music. Sue-Yon Kanga, a

former student from Garran was

here this week and took time

out to entertain the children

from Red Hill Primary School,

accompanied by Timothy Young.

See you down the track. Captioning provided by Captioning and Subtitling

International. Cleench

This program is not subtitled THEME MUSIC Welcome to the show. I'm Andy Muirhead and this is Collectors,