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He has been shot at, arrested and

jailed while trying to protect

Tasmania's pristine wilderness. The

battle is far from over for green's

Senator Bob Brown. Having stopped

construction of the Franklin dam in

the 80s, he is determined to ensure

a pulp mill in the Tamar Valley is

never built. With the election at

our door step and dozeers starting

in a matter of weeks, Bob brown is

leading a protest against the mill

which was approved last week. The

most soul destroying aspect is

shadow Environment Minister Peter

Garrett's decision to back the

Government. Good morning Bob.

Before we get into the Tamar Valley

and the pulp mill, Australians lost

a soldier in Afghanistan overnight.

Where is the opposition to our

involvement in these hostile areas

during this foe election campaign?

We hear nothing about it? The

Greens are opposed to our

involvement in Afghanistan because

we believe the Bush Administration

should have stayed there back in

the start of the century instead of

going to rather, invading Iraq

backed by the Government. This is

an absolute tragedy. Our defence rs

forces are noble Australians who go

where governments direct them. The

loss of this man to his family and

friends is in calculable and this

nation will honour for ever his commitment and their loss. Of

course, you can't make up for that.

The UK recently announced that at

least some of their troops would be

home for Christmas. Should

Australia be talking seriously

about a withdrawal plan? We should

have our combat troops back here at

home for our own region. Prime

Minister Blair overnight has been

talking about reducing. They had

45,000. They have now got 5,000.

They are going to reduce that to

2,000. They are going to bring two

times or three times as many troops

out of Iraq by March this year.

This is Gordon Brown? Gordon Brown,

the UK is going to bring two to

three times as many troops out of

Iraq as we have in Iraq. Ours are

there for as long as George Bush

wants them to be there because John Howard simply does as George Bush

says. We believe we are an

independent country, we should make

our own decisions. We should follow

so many other countries to withdraw

our troops from Iraq and put them

into the service of our own region

and our own country in our own

region. We should honour this

soldier by having this discussion

more loudly during this campaign.

We will take the Government on over

Iraq and both the major parties

over Afghanistan. We believe the

civil aid should be going in and we

should be powering reconstruction

into both countries but our defence

forces should be in our own region

from East Timor through to the Sol

Mondays and unstable situations and

now our Australian defence forces

should be at the behest of this

region not the Bush Administration.

Let's move forward to the Tamar

Valley pulp mill. Why are you most

disappointed in the reaction of

Peter gafr at? Like Malcolm

Turnbull, Labor's Peter gar at has

said we endorse the go ahead to a

pulp mill. That is going to destroy

2 how long,hectares of Tasmania's

wild forest. It is going to - with

that comes the Tasmanian wedge tail

eagle, one of the six largest in

the world. If I stretch my arms

right out, it's still not 2.2

metres which is the wing span of

this giant creature. A 65% chance

of going into extinction if the log

log to feed this pulp mill, it goes

to 99%. We don't need to do that.

It's not world's best practice as

Chief scientist, Mr Peacock and Mr

Turnbull and Peter gar at are

saying. Where is world's best

practice and where is it? New

Zealand stopped logging forests

years ago. Sweden has these pulp

Mills but they don't use chlorine

in the process. 47 Swedish pulp

Mills will be putting out just a

tad more than one pulp mill on the

Tamar in cause terms of these

cancer causing agents. Die

objection Ians. Overnight we hear

from Tim Flannery, Australian of

the year, that the dangerous level

of greenhouse gases in the

atmosphere, 485 parts per million,

is reefpltd. We thought it was

going to be mid century. We are

there now. Our politicians and the

big parties don't get it that we

have to act as a nation together,

to defend the world that we are

handing on to coming generation as

than that means going across to

energy efficiency, going across to

the renewable - we are the sunny

country but here they are going to

build a pulp mill burning 5,000

tonnes of wood coming out of our

forest and that is going up into

the atmosphere. That region too, as

I understand from what I read about

it, it had pollution issues anyway.

It's one of... Being a valley San

sits low. It has an air shed so the

pollution can't escape. 60,000 plus

litres of effluent going into Bass

Strait each day out of this mill.

What about the beautiful vineyards

and/or beganic farms and the

tourist, hospitality. These

businesses are going to bear the

impact of this pulp mill being in

their midst. It begs the question

when the Chief scientist assessed

the mill, the proposed mill, was he

able to assess things like that,

the impact on the business? No. I

heard suggestions he wasn't able to

assess, I don't know if he was

right, the odor. He wasn't able to

assess the forest that it is going

to require. He didn't look at that.

He didn't look at the atmospheric

pollution? Why? Malcolm Turnbull

said I am only going to look at the

places impacted directly, that the

Federal Government has control over.

His Act says, his environment Act

says he can authorise the study

into all of the environmental

impact and the social impact,

including the loss of jobs which

this pulp mill will cause by its

impact on small business in

Tasmania. But he didn't. He chose

not to. Peter gar at has said

that's me too. This is where it's

so tough. Have you been swindld? He

should have stood up. I have always

liked Peter and you have to wonder

about this terrible fix he has got

himself into. That's why I'm

pleased to be a Green because we

can stand up for those other values,

including those maul businesses

which are going to have such -

their assessment, $3 billion

negative impact from this pulp mill

being put in the midst of that

valley of 100,000 people. There is

a fantastic add the Greens are

showing on YouTube that I want to

show you. Have a look at this.

That's hard hitting. This has put

you in a Dell I am a, it has put

the Greens in a dilemma. Where do

your preferences go now? They will

be be directed to the big parties.

That's the first time ever they

have gone to Labour in the past. A

large number, a minority, a large

number of our voters form a Liberal

and National party voters and these

are businesses. I have spoken to

people on the beach just on Sunday

when 3,000 people turned outty

wilderness society and anti pulp

mill rally on the beach where the

effluent is going to come ashore.

There is people saying I have voted

Labor, I have voted Liberal all my

life, I am going to vote for the

Greens this time. It's not a party

thing as such, it' giving people an

option to the wrong direction for

Australia to be going in 2007.

1950s, sure. 2007, you can put the

pulp mill elsewhere, have a

different process, we can have our

paper. We don't need to be build

ago giant polluting pulp mill in

the midst of a fertile valley with

100,000 people in it. There has to

be a rein behind the Government

giving the go ahead. The mill will

generate 2,000 jobs. There will be

3,400 jobs during pilding. It will

bring 2.6 billion to the economy

over the next few years. You have

got to offer an alternative. Can I

pick you up on the job. You look at

Gunns literature, they are going to

create 284 jobs in this mill. It's

highly mechanised. It's a huge,

modern computerised mill. Over 300

jobs have been lost out of the

logging industry since Mr Howard

stood in the Albert haul in 2004

and said I will protect your jobs

to all the unions and the big

loggers, with the red flag flying.

Well, he didn't. There is more jobs

been lost in this industry than

this mill will create. It will lead

to the loss of hundreds more jobs

in those clean, green businesses in

Tasmania which are now the centre

point of our economy. What is more,

they put their money back into the

region. A big pulp mill like this

with a big corporation like Gunns,

the money goes through to the

Sydney stock ex exchange, out into

the big investment banks, we lose

it out of Tasmania. It is not a

good economic or environmental

bargain for Tasmania. The better

option is to be fostering our

written yards. We want people to

come and see the forest standing up,

to see the Eagles, to see the

Tasmanian develop ills, to see the

wildlife and enjoy the boufl oceans.

You mentioned banks. This protest

is going beyond Gunns and it's

really taken on a life of its own.

We are seeing banks questioned

about their ethical involvement.

God on them. Banks, these days have

their own ethical statement and the

ANZ is the banker for Gunns and it

has now an ethical statement which

this mill will have to fulfil. I

frankly don't believe it can. But

that's up to... Gunns says it has

got - I was from reading the

newspaper it sounded Gunns was

clearly saying it already had an

agreement that would happen

regardless of what came out of this

report. I know there has been at

least one world size bank that has

come way away from looking at there

project shake its hid. Finance is

one thing. The price of Gunns

shares went up after the mill was

announced. We are talking about

another value system which is

looking at the interests of those

who come after us at our wildlife,

our scenery, the air we breathe,

the water we drink. This will take

40 billion litres out of the system

in its lifetime. Chief scientist

Peacock was on the radio saying the

studies haven't been complete. If

these ocean out fall studies show

the impact on the environment is

unacceptable it will negate the go

ahead for this mill. Those who

think it's in the bag should look

again. I think investors who might

be putting their money this should

be looking at this and saying these

studies should be completed before

the mill is given the go ahead. All

of to do is look at the Gordon

below Franklin project. It's not

yet a fait accompli. The Frank

decline dam they spent $67 million.

It looked hopeless when the

bulldozers were going in in 1982.

That river is flowing free to the

sea. It attracts 200,000 to 300,000

people a year to the Strahan coast.

If we only get this mill right and

have an environmently friendly mill

elsewhere, we keep the Tamar Valley

and you get a win win situation.

Where would a better position be?

Across at Hampshire near Burnie.

That is still on the east coast? On

the north coast, central north

coast and south of the city of

Burnie. You you need to have a mill

based on plantations and we have

got over 150,000 hectares of those.

We don't need to be logging our

magnificent old growth forest and

destroying the Han at that time of

wildlife. They say there is enough

timber for them to almost use exclusively plantation planted

timber. Is that not true? It's not

true. They are going to log 200,000

football fields in area of forestes

over the coming 20 or 30 years if

the mill goes ahead. Malcolm

Turnbull gave a licence for this

mill last week for 50 years. Peter

gar at gave a stamp of approval to

that licence for this mill for the

next 50 years. It's wrong. I want

to stand for a right direction

which is put the mill, had it

environmently friendly, put it in a

place where it won't ruin the

livelihood of people, or threaten

their health. The AMA is opposed to

this being in the Tamar Valley and

keep the brufl green image of

Tasmania while we are at it. Great

to see you, Bob, thank you for

coming in. We will look forward to

talking with you in the next couple of months. We