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Lateline Business -

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(generated from captions) public services like the

National Museum will be given

to volunteers. We cannot get

away if fact we are all

facing up to 40% cuts and

that is because of this

fiscal problem, we have to be

pragmatic. On another day in

another arena museums will

say "You can't cut our

grants" but we have to be

responsible and find ways to

be more creative. The

recruitment, training and

administration involved in

David Cameron's big idea will

be funded through the 'Big

Society' Bank. Using money in

unclaimed bank accounts

throughout the country. The

'Big Society' Bank will be

entitled to take that money

when it has been dormant in

the accounts for more than 15

years. Bryan runs a match

making service at the Bankers

Association trying to link

unclaimed bank accounts with

owners. Can you under how

some may find this disturbing

given it may be your money

you are spending without

their permission? It is

crucial to the flow vehicle

the integrity of customers

money is preserved and it is

something we have been

working with the Government

on for sometime to ensure

that even if the money is

paid into the reclaimed fund

a proportion is always set

aside so that if somebody

comes 20, 30 years or even

longer to reclaim their money

they are able to do so. How

much money are we talking

about in the first in answer

the that may be available for

the 'Big Society' Bank? ?400

million unclaimed in bank

accounts. There is more in

building society accounts

maybe 100 to 150 million. The

young people about to paint a

mural over the graffiti in

Camden are among thousand

signed up by community

volunteers run by a woman who

has been made a Dame. She

addresses the problems of

frail patient who do not eat

in public hospitals.

Research shows that Dinner

Partners encouraging patients

to eat, helping them to cut

it up, even lifting it to

their mouth have the impact

of enabling patients to go

home 24 hours earlier they

are more nourished and

recover faster, excellent and

that saves the hospital ?600

for every patient who goes

home early. How comfortable

are you with the funding

stream for the 'Big Society'

given it is coming from

unclaimed money indoor plant

bank accounts? I know two

people with accounts they

have not touched for a long

time and are having a lot of trouble getting the money

back because the banks have

swept them up, it is

inconvenient for them, this

is a long-standing discussion

in this country about how

long a bank can be dormant

and where the benefits should

go so I think watch this

space. The Opposition claims

the 'Big Society' is a big

con a way to cut the public

service budget in disguise.

David Cameron denies that and

he will take it a step

further by encouraging every

16-year-old in the country to

sign up for some kind of military or community

service. Back to Australia,

a Victorian man has been

found guilty for a second

time of kill his three

children by drowning them in

a damn. There were emotional

scenes outside the Victorian

Supreme Court after a jury

found Robert Farquharson

guilty of triple murder. The

41-year-old drove into a damn in the constituent's

southwest on Father's Day

2005. His three sons aged 2,

7 and 10 died at the scene.

The re-trial lasted 11 weeks

and it took the jury 3 days

the reach a verdict. Robert

Farquharson is yet to be

sentenced. The weather - a

shower or two in Sydney and

Melbourne, a possible shower

for Brisbane. Windy in Darwin

and fine elsewhere. That is

all from us. If you would

like to look back at our

population debate between

Scott Morrison or Tony Burke

or review our stories or

transcripts visit our web

site and follow us on Twitter and Facebook. Ticky Fullerton will be here tomorrow night.

I will see you again next

week. This Program is Captioned

Ticky Fullerton. Tonight we Live. Good evening. I'm

cross to London the talk to

Peter Hitchens one of Europe

ease top oil and gas analysts

about BP. First to our

headline stories - a very

gloomy prognosis for the

world's biggest economy. The

economic outlook remains

unusually uncertain. The

sus situation is for a slow realistic expectation in the

and fit full recovery with a

lot of pain. Mining flare-up.

Andrew Forrest and smaller

miners threaten to restart a advertising campaign against

the minerals resource rent

tax. We have stayed right

out of it up to this point.

The markets - it was a

negative lead from Wall

Street. The all ordinary lost

nearly 1%. The ASX200 closed

down 33 points. In Japan the

Nikkei made it a fifth

straight day of losses while the Hang Sengs what up. Global tension are

building as US Federal

Reserve chief Ben Bernanke

told Congress the future is

unusually uncertain. The

downbeat comments came as

tough new banking laws aimed

at protecting consumers were

signed into law by President

Obama. The outlook and the

crucial results of the stress

test of the health of

European banks due out

tomorrow could have important

domestic implications ahead

of the Reserve Bank's next

interest rate meeting. The

global market community is

looking for light at the end

of the tunnel but they did

not see it from the world's

most influential Central

Banker. Prudent planning but

Federal Reserve continues no action. Even as the

prudent planning for the

ultimate withdrawal of

extraordinary monetary policy accommodation we also

recognise the economic

outlook remains unusually uncertain. The words "Unusually uncertain" were

enough to disturb the fragile

confidence and set global

markets on edge. Ben Bernanke

told Congress he was not

expecting the a double-dip

recession but the recovery

would be sluggish and that

means stubbornly high

unemployment for this Obama

term. The e peck station is

slow and fit full recovery

with a lot of pain in the US

but that is the best place

the global EU con my can look

for to revival by

2011-12. The chief says he is

ready to boost the stimulus

if necessary The large

deficits are important for

economic activity and

financial stability so they

were justified in that

respect. I would be reluctant

to withdraw that support to

quickly in the near term. At

the same time to maintain confidence and keep interest

rates low it is very important that we have a

strong and credible plan for

reducing deficits over the

next few years. President Obama signed into law a

sweeping overhaul of banking

and Wall Street regulations

aimed at ending the need for

bailouts. Because of this

law the American people will

never again be asked to foot

the bill for Wall Street's

mistakes. There will be no

more tax-funded bailouts.

Period. The Government will

be given powers to break up

companies that threaten the

economy, it will shine more

light on markets that escape

regulation and establish as a powerful Council of regulators who will keep a

watch on the entire financial

system. The laws create a new

agency to guard consumers in

their financial transactions. Someone is

going to read the fine print

for them, they will make sure

there is no teaser rates or

inscrutable loan practices we

saw in the past. There will

be credit cards that should

not be given the people to

get them in financial trouble

so there will be a lot more

protection for the consumer

It makes G20 reform possible

and it is good for Australia

because the US legislation

moves in directions the world

has wanted. Although it did

not Steve a ringing

endorsement from a man on the

Government's financial sector

advisory council Macquarie

Bank Chief Executive officer

Richard Shepherd We have

regimes through continuus

disclosure which is a world-leading regulatory

approach so I think in

general yes we should

absolutely study the best practice overseas but Australia has been ahead of

the game in many ever these

areas over the past 10 to 20

years. Investors are now hoping for some good news

from the next big event, a

report on the health of

European banks due this

weekend. The US equivalent a

year ago helped shore up global confidence and its

impact will be a factor for Australia's Reserve Bank when it considers interest rates

in less than 2 weeks. Shares

in the beleaguered oil giant

BP are up again today. The

cap on the Gulf of Mexico

well is still holding and BP

says it has sold enough

assets to pay for the

clean-up. The British Prime

Minister even fought their

corner in a visit to the

White House. The leak still

has to be sealed permanently

though. The clean-up task

remains a huge one and the

court case and inquiries have

yet to start. To discuss this

and more I was joined a short

time ago from London by Peter

Hitchens oil and gas analyst

at Panmure Gordon. Peter

Hitchens welcome do 'Lateline

Business' Good evening. How

do you assess BP as an

investment right now? I still

have to buy a recommendation.

I think the market has

overreacted on the downside

given the uncertainties and

as the uncertainties are

cleared up and as BP gets the

well under control shares

will rally. Do you think with

David Cameron defending the

company in Washington and the

cap appearing to hold? Politically everything seems

to have cleared up with BP

putting money in the account

and BP getting this under

control and looks close to

killing it off

permanently. What will happen

with management at BP? I

notice reports in the

newspapers that Tony Hayward

might step down and other

reports of a denial by the

company? There is a lot of

support for Tony Hayward. He

joined after John Brown, he

has done a very good job

trying to improve the

reputation of BP and

unfortunately he has another

disaster on his hands but

generally he is very well

regarded within the company

and he will not be made as a

sacrifice. The Chairman may

be fired but I think Tony

Hayward's job is safe. We

hear BP is a big company but

is there a bigger problem

this global brand might be

damaged? I'm thinking of the

lobbying for the Libyan oil

and the Lockerbie incident and sensitivities in

America. I think BP has some

problems. We have seen this

with Exxon and Shell with

Piper. BP will suffer in the

short-term but I think

gradually people will come

back to the brand. As BP puts

a lot of effort into marketing. Do you think that

green halo sun will remain? I

think there has to be a

rebranding as BP ties to

adjust its image, tries to

get a better image across. BP

want to raise between 10 and

20 billion US, is that

realistic, can they do it by

getting rid of peripheral

assets they were going to

sell anyway? We are well on

the way with the deal

announced with Apache selling

$7 billion worth of assets,

this is accelerateing a

program BP has been carrying

out for years selling off

marginal old fields, re-investing the money into

new developments and I think

BP will have sufficient money

to actually cover the costs

associated with the Gulf of

Mexico. You can see BP

avoiding selling core assets

like Prudo in Alaska? I

think so. They are just

accelerating the marginal

fields, I do not think they

want to cut into the core

assets and I think their

balance sheet is strong

enough to stop them, not

force them into selling core

assets. Why is BP fighting so

hard to stay in the Gulf of Mexico? The Gulf of Mexico,

the deep water is a new area,

it is an area where

significant discoveries have

been made at a time when the

oil majors are struggling to replace production let alone

grow production so they are

concentrating than the deep

water which is a new area for

the majors. What does this

mean for the future of deep

water drilling generally

because presumably it is the

only way we will have enough

oil to quench our thirst? It

is, that is where the major

growth comes from. What will happen after this, rather

than a moratorium on

drilling, is that drilling

standards will be toughened up substantially to stop this

happening again but the world

can not afford to give up on

the deep water and they have

to carry on drilling in order

the find the Reserves it

needs. What do you expect the

Obama administration to do

about deep water

drilling? When we have seen a

inquiry into what went wrong

with the Macondo well there will be lots of safety

measures put in place that

will raise the costs of

drilling, it will also

increase the time that it

takes to drill these Welling.

I see a toughening up of safety standards

globally. There is now talk

to the rescue effort did as

much if not more damage the

well-head as the explosion

itself. Will we see a lot of

cross-claiming here? There is

bound to be litigation coming through but I think the

damage that was done to the

well-head during the attempts

to try to fix it was

necessary in order to get

things in place like the new

containment cap. Damages are

just unfortunately part and

parcel of operating in the

US. How long will it be

before we have a clear idea

about liabilities and how do

you look at contingencies and

assess risk on a stock like

this? It is very difficult to

actually make contingencies

and assess risks because the

damages side is an unknown

and that is what has worried

the market at this stage. As

far as the inquiry goes these

things take years, they are

going to have to look at all the data coming out of the

well, look at the blow-out

preventer, look at emails and

this process could take years

before an outcome is

reached. You obviously feel

that over that period BP is big enough to tough it

out? Definitely. I mean

suspending the dividend gives

them $10 billion per annum in

extra cash flow, they have a

very, very strong balance

sheet. This he can easily

cope with the clean-up costs

and the damage thanks come through from the local

industries so I am not

concerned about BP's future

as some people were about 3,

4 weeks ago. Indeed

presumably you do not think

it is very vulnerable as a

takeover target now? There is

a lot of story with takeovers

at the moment but it is

difficult to see anyone who

could take them over. One of

the things that drove the

mergers before was cost cutting on the down stream side. Anyone big enough to

take over BP would have to

demerger a lots of the down stream assets which is where

the cost cutting comes so I

cannot see anyone taking over

BP in the short or medium

term. Peter Hitchens thank

you for talking to 'Lateline

Business'. You are welcome.

The mining industry is

threatening to reignite the

mining tax debate by

restarting its anti tax

campaign this weekend.

Smaller miners believe the

tax is unjust and Andrew

Mackay says he may bring his

financial muscle on board the

support the campaign. Julia

Gillard may have thought she

had seen the end of the

antitax advertising but it

may not be resurrected during

the election campaign. A

campaign could realistically

be rolled out as soon as the

weekend. It could have a

important backer. For the

first time Fortescue will be

prepared to invest in it. We

have stayed right out of it

up to this points. Smaller

miners are concerned did

recent compromise reached

with BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto

and Xstrata unfairly hits

them. Andrew Forrest says

many of the details of the

deal remain secret and

companies cannot assess how

it will affect them. He also

had this message for the

Greens leader Bob Brown who

continues to argue the

resources industry should be

taxed more. Walk down to the

front of Parliament House and

you will often see Indigenous

brothers and sisters camped

in their tents and join those

people in tents because if

you do not have a strong and

vibrant mining industry that

is about all we have left.

I say to Andrew stand for Parliament, test the

popularity of your ideas

wanting the mining industry

to dodge paying fair

taxes. Andrew Forrest took a

swipe at the ray pointsment

of Don Argus Appoint John

Howard to be your director

and you will know how we

feel. Stephen Smith says the

industry is entitled to

restart its advertising

campaign but is unsure how

the community will respond to

the debate surfacing again.

Think the community was very

pleased to see that debate

behind us. For a Government

keen on moving forward it is

hoping the issue is left in

its past. Oil and gas

producer Santos has reported

a big rise in its June quarter revenues despite a

fall in production. Higher

prices more than offset the

disruption to output of

floods in the Cooper Basin

and maintenance at the Darwin

LNG plant. Santos is in

discussions with another

partner about the Gladstone

facility. Newcrest's gold

output is up 26% largely due

to the operation in Western

Australia. The movers on the

local market - BHP Billiton

gained on stronger metal

prices, copper hit a

thee-week high overnight.

Foster's was up after setting

target earnings of $84

million from its Australian and New Zealand wine

business.

Where would we be without

the public sector? There may

be rude answers to that but

the reality is the

performance of the public sector and its implementation

of policy and reform in

particular can often make or

sink a Government. Bill

Eggers is an international

public sector guru based in

the US on a visit to

'If We Can Put a Man on the Australia. His latest book

Moon' is a new Bible for politicians, bureaucrats and

the private sector alike and

he joins me now from

Melbourne. Bill Eggers

welcome to 'Lateline

Business'. It is great to be

with you tonight Ticky. Why

is there so often such a big

gap between political

promises and implementation

of policies? Is it

moreover-promising or failure

in the public sector? Well I

think there is a bit of both.

What we always hear from

politicians often is failure

is not an option but failure

is often an option and the

best way the avoid failure is

to take failure seriously so

what we did in the book we

looked at 75 big initiatives

since World War II,

everything from struggles of

immigration reform, we looked

at London congestion pricing,

Japanese post the Sydney

Olympics and we wanted to

find a path of success, those

that end in success and those

the front of the that end in failures and on

newspaper. You are a great

believer in innovation in the

public sector as a key to

success and promote things

like social media I know but

how do you create innovation

with risk-averse public

servants? It is actually all

about how you actually

approach the notion of risk.

Because innovation requires experimentation,

experimentation requires

actually failures, some

experiments fail so if we

have a risk-averse culture

where people say we will

never fail you will not have

innovation but it is how do

you fail. You want the fail

fast and small, do lots of

proceed toe he types, tests

and see how things work in

the real world, test them

with real users, people, go

to the communities and the

more you fail fast and fail

small then you will be able

to succeed better. What we

find in the public sector is

too often we fail at scale,

things get so big and they

get too big the fail and so

essentially by doing things

smaller, prototyping and

testing the we could achieve

more successes. Let me ask

you about some big reforms. Health care which is both in

the US and Australia very

much on the agenda, President

Obama got some level of

health care reform through

but nothing like Hillary

Clinton wanted to do several

years ago. What are the

lessons there? Well I think

look, health care represents

a huge percentage of the

economy both in Australia and

the US, it is a very, very complex system involving the

public sector t private

sector, GPs and so fort and

so there is certain lessons

when you look at

implementation which is the

stage you in here in

Australia, in the US we will

be in soon, firstly you want to involve the people who are

doing this in the process of

again design and

implementation, that is

doctors, nurses, patients and

others, use things like

social media, Twitter,

Facebook and others so you

can get the pulse of them,

see how they are feeling as

opposed to people

representing organisations.

Secondly again before you

rollout big massive reforms

you want to do a lot of these

its, prototyping and

simulation and see how the

reforms work in the hospitals

and with real patients before

they are rolled out

nationwide and third again,

before you do the big

implementations you want to

make sure you have

incrementally reduced your

risk but you want to make

sure you looked at all the

different ways this can fail

and you have tested and

war-gamed all those things to

avoid that failure. It is

interesting because today we

hear the clinicians in our

health care reform play not

actually be on the boards

that was originally suggested

but having spent a couple of

days in Australia what do you

think of our Federal

Government needing to

basically propose a takeover

of state-run hospitals? I

think the key thing you

mentioned the clinicians, I

think the key thing is that

for any of these reforms to

work you need to reach to the

people who are on the

frontlines who are actually

doing the work you want to

get ideas from them, you want

to take their pulse and be

able to change the policy

reforms as they are going the

depending on how they are

working there. You know what?

Sometimes you are going to

need to kill the different

things off as they are

working or not working and I

think that is going to be the

key to reform here and

basically if a policy was

established before but it is

not working you have to be

able to very, very quickly

shut that down and tie

something new. Another big

area of reform for us in

Australia is in

infrastructure. The now state

governments and Federal

governments have experimented

with some investment, they

have work would the private

sector in PPPs, many have got

their fingers burnt in this area. How do you think the

private sector and the public

sector can and should work together? Firstly Australia

has been a worldwide leader

in PPPs for 2 decades.

Whether it is education PPPs,

whether it is PPPs around

road use and tunnels and

bridges and so fort. But very

often you have a bank like Macquarie Bank who actually

is perceived as very much

getting the upper hand on the

State Government. Well you

know again I think the key

thing is that you are

learning from what is working

and what is not working, you

developing other models,

learning from those successes

and failures. When you look

at the Cross City Tunnel in

Sydney the public sector got

a good deal from that, right?

I think that is what you want

the look at, what is the

value that the citizens are

getting by ref radgeing

private dollars you can bid a

lot more infrastructure than

otherwise. The US is trying

to learn a lot of lessons

from Australia in terms of

what you have done with PPPs

over the last 20 years. Bill

Eggers thank you for joining 'Lateline Business'. Thank

you very much. The head of

AXA Asia Pacific Focus

insists it is business as

usual despite growing

uncertainty about the future

of its proposed fake over by

National Australia Bank. National Australia Bank has been given another extension

on its agreement with AXA in

order the address competition

concerns over the $14 billion

deal. The any deadline is the

end of August. The CEO Andy

Penn would not be drawn on

speculation thanks a slump in

earnings may prompt National

Australia Bank to review the

offer. He says the timeline

of the completing the deal is

out of his hands. The

independent directors have

allowed more time for the

ACCC to conclude

deliberations but I have

learnt a in life you focus on

the thing use can control and

our focus is on the business

and I'm pleased with how it

is going. He says sales in

AXA Asia Pacific Focus's Hong

Kong business are up 20% for

the first half. The ACCC has

approved Exxon Mobil's sale of its filling station

network to 7-Eleven. The US

oil joint had planed to sell

them to Caltex but the deal

was scuppered by the

regulators u all sites will

be sold to 7-Eleven with

South Australian stations on

sold the a third party. Exxon will still supply petrol to

some of the network and the

company says it is not

planning to sell its Altona refine yip in Victoria. Tomorrow's business

diary. The international

trade price index for June is

released. The Melbourne

Institute has to the latest

bulletin of economic trends -

The Wall Street journal

says four of the world's

biggest oil companies are

creating a strike force. 'The

Times' says private equity

owners take advantage of the

appetite for defensive

companies. From Monday

'Lateline Business' will be

seen on the ABC News 24 high

definition at the earlier

time of 8.30. As well as

after 'Lateline' on ABC. I'm Ticky Fullerton, thank you for watching. Goodnight.

Closed captions by CSI THEME MUSIC I used to dance more than anything. Everybody thought I was going to be a dancer. My mother sent me tap dance school. I used to dance around to anything from Nina Simone to Bob Dylan. I used to make mixed tapes that were classified by emotion. A happy tape, a sad tape. The kind of 'I hate my parents' tape. I always thought if you had to have a miserable life at least it should be like Edith Piaf. Listening to the people outside when we arrived taking pictures we thought it was for us but it wasn't. How disappointed we were. Upon arriving you're being completely ignored. Such is life. You'd have thought we'd be used to it. You never get used to it. We were promised so much at the outset. Champagne. Caviar. That's enough! I think I saw a picture of Kate Bush in the hallway and the only reason I'd like to meet her is she's such a mystery. People who have mysteries, you don't know anything about them, they're my favourite artists. Kate Bush is one of those. She just went off to the woods one day. She's just gone. And I think people like are always the most interesting. I grew up all over the place. I was born in Beirut, and grew up in London, then before that in Paris All my family on my mum's side moved to America so I hopped between wherever we could. It did put me through a little bit of a crisis. I didn't know where I belonged growing up. I was very different to all the other kids. Then it really led me to look for something, give myself some form of identity. I was like, if you write songs, if you're into music, it doesn't matter what you are, 'cause you're gonna make it up all along. One, two. When we moved to London I had problems with my education I was extremely dyslexic. I got kicked out of school. So my mother found this Russian woman and called her up and it turns out this woman a hard core old school Russian teachers and she taught me and the lessons were 2.5 hours long but I had to practise for 2 hours as well and I got good quickly with this rigorous training in classical music. Around the age of 11 I was singing at the Royal Opera House then recording with them. I did a lot of contemporary music because I couldn't sight read so I could learn anything, absolutely anything, by ear. And that's how I started to get into songs. I would listen to things and study them and figure out how they were played. I couldn't read music so I wasn't very good at playing the piano but when you write songs that's a good thing because you keep the piano part simple and you have to tell the story with the strength of the melody or the use of vocal techniques. ? He's got looks that books take pages to tell ? He's got a face to make you fall on your knees ? He's got money in the bank to thank and I guess ? You could think he's living at ease ? Like lovers on the open shore, much more, what's the matter? ? When you're sitting there with so ? While you're wondering what the hell to be ? Are you wishing you were ugly like me? ? Blame it on the girls who know what to do ? Blame it on the boys who keep hitting on you ? Blame it on your mother for the things she said ? Blame it on your father but you know he's dead ? Blame it on the girls ? Blame it on the boys ? Blame it on the girls ? Blame it on the boys ? Life could be simple but you never fail ? To complicate it every single time ? You could have children, a wife, a perfect little life ? But you blow it on a bottle of wine ? Like a baby you're a stubborn child, what's the matter? ? Always looking for an axe to grind, what's the matter? ? While you're wondering what the hell to do ? We were wishing we were lucky like you ? Blame it on the girls who know what to do ? Blame it on the boys who keep hitting on you ? Blame it on your mother for the things she said ? Blame it on your father, but you know he's dead ? Blame it on the girls ? Blame it on the boys ? (REPEATS REFRAIN) Bloc Party doesn't end out of a rehearsal room with guitars, amps buzzing. That's just the beginning. There's so much more of a wider world out there we're really interested in. There's quite a lot of latency, I can hear my voice. Ahhhhh. Check, check, check. It's fine now. The musical idea is that we have more than just rock'n'roll ideas. you need other ways of conveying that, but that's not to say there's anything wrong with rock'n'roll. There's nothing wrong with the four member line up combo. The classic Beatles combo. Of Abbey Road. There's nothing wrong with it at all, you've just gotta keep finding new ways of saying the same thing. It's always been important to try and push new borders for us as a band. You do get locked in to a certain mind set when you play guitar and there's a reason why we picked up guitars in the first place. We're a rock band at heart. We've learnt so much about different ways of producing sound It's been a really interesting learning curve. I'm really pleased about 'Mercury' because I used to play the trombone when I was a kid and I never thought I'd be able to mix the horn with cutting edge thumping beats and we did it with 'Mercury', so that's personally one of my favourites from our record. My memories of how that came together were Kelly playing around with a delay pedal, which can loop a sound and track over it