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ABC News Breakfast -

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(generated from captions) According to the punters

present, Prime Minister Julia

Gillard was the clear winner of

last night's public forum against Tony Abbott in

showed the Prime Minister Brisbane. An audience poll

emerged with 83 votes emerged with 83 votes compared

with the Opposition Leader's

75. So a narrow win. Kevin Andrews from the coalition 75. So a narrow win. Kevin

joins us this morning for a

final visit before the poll on Saturday. Good morning. You

made it. Yes. We're here,

yes. It's interesting, we've

couple of been innun dateed in the last

couple of days, I have never quite experienced the sense of despair like this. What quite experienced the sense of

happened to the vision thing in

politics in this country? I

has been about where Australia

finds itself at the present

time. What we're concerned

about is this huge debt that

we've got. Tony Abbott makes no

bones about the fact he wants

to make promises for the next

three years, the next term of

government. Aren't a lot of Australians looking for more

than that? We have to get than that? We have to get

ourselves out of the disastrous

situation we're in at the

present time. What we are

showing is that we can cut the Australian waste, we can

and we waste, we can repay the debt

Australian families. Now, that's what people are that's what

immediately concerned about.

That's what we're responding to. The country was famously

led for so many years by

showered, a conviction showered, a conviction

politician. Is the time over

now for conviction

politicians? No. One thing this campaign has clearly shown is the growth of Tony Abbott as

a leader. He's somebody that we

saw last night can engage with

Australians, have a genuine

all walks of conversation with people from

same time, I believe people

have seen the gravitas of Tony

Prime Minister of and somebody who can be the

Australia. Could Australia. Could we

characterise him as a

conviction politician? I would've said

recently but he seems to have

kept a few of those strongly

held convictions of his very

much in check? I think he has run a disciplined campaign

which is what Australians want

to see. I mean this is not a

talent quest for a celebrity

show. This is a contest for the

leadership, the political

leadership and therefore the

I think Australians want to see somebody who can display that

sort of discipline na, gravitas, but have a connection gravitas, but

with ordinary Australians. 48 hours to go. How is it looking?

A lot of the national polls

show the coalition will get close but not close enough on

Saturday night. The only poll

that counts is on Saturday,

when millions of Australians

each in their own electorates each in their own electorates

go out and vote and there will

be decisions taken in each

all the way. Not until the electorate. So we are

polls close on Saturday will we

give up our efforts to convince

better way forward. Do you Australia that there is a

think you released your

costings too late? Oh no. The

reality is that policies are released and they have been on

both sides over the last few

days of the campaign that

always occurs. We've had our costings done by costings done by one of the

most reputable firms of

accountants in Australia.

They've released them. What it

shows is that there is a way to

end this waste and repay the

debt and ease the cost burden that accounting firm also said on Australian families. What

very interestingly and I've got

the observation here, WHK Holvart, the numbers add up

based on assumptions provided

to them by the coalition. Now, that's not a basis that you

would accept from the Labor

Party. All costings are based

on assumptions. The Labor

Party's costings are based on assumptions. The assumptions

have been independently tested

by Treasury. That hasn't been

an independent testing there. It's assumptions that are provided by you to assume that they are correct

and on that basis, they've got out

out the calculator and added it

up. That doesn't sound terribly persuasive to persuasive to me. It's a

trust. Oh really? It's not an question of who people will

issue of

issue of whether the figures

add up? The figures add up, but

at the end of the day, for

Australians, the question is

who can they trust? And the one word you have not heard from

the lips of the Labor Party in this

this campaign is trust, because

they can't be trusted. Their

track record is so abysmal. The

question is to you trust a

waste party that's led to all this

waste and mismanagement, or do

you have a trust a party that's

shown over previously 10 years

in government that it can

actually run the economy

competently? That's the choice

for Australians. You're fully

stand by the figures? Wayne confident in the costings, you

Swan was out there attacking

the costings before they were released. We expected

released. We expected that. We

have a reputable firm of

accounts that have looked at

all of this. We've been working

on policy for the best part of

about that. Why we're confident

is because we know that we're

not going to be wasting Australian fax payers' money

the way in which Julia Gillard

the Labor Party have and Wayne Swan and the rest of

for the last 257 years. Speft

on the part of the world generally you come from, some on the part of the world

of the seats in Melbourne's

outer east which have changed

hands over the years, could do

you expect there could be some

surprises some upsets in a surprises some upsets in

couple of those seats on

Saturday? You don't know. I'm

not a commentator. That's not

my job. My job is to ensure that I can win my seat. But just watching the demographic

shifts in particular out in the

outer eastern areas? There is always demographic always demographic shifts. As cities grow further out and

suburbs change then you get

more of a concentration, people

different gradually move back into

different places. There's

immigration changes which are occurring in my electorate, for

example, there has been a large

wave after wave of immigrants

over the last 40 years, I

suppose. That over thyme has

some changes. But from one

election to another demographics are reasonably demographics are reasonably

settled. Where you do get major

changes in the outer areas like the north-western corridor of Melbourne and you get that

around other cities in

Australia. Over time that has

has an impact. Be had an email

saying that Malcolm Turnbull is

deliberately lying low in the hope that the Liberal Party

will lose on Saturday and he

will resume the leadership from Tony Abbott after a Liberal Party loss. If Party loss. If the Liberal

Party does lose and of course

it's the situation you probably won't won't hypothesise on, but it's

worth asking a question anyway,

is Tony Abbott safe? Can I say

about Malcolm firstly he has

been a great team player in this election campaign. His

attack on Labor's wasteful NBN

was masterful. He tore it apart

both in his media comments and

both written and in both written and in the

television media as well. So

Malcolm has been playing a

great part in that. Tony has

done a wonderful job as leader.

I think

we'll find out on Saturday. And

just finally, tkt says he

doesn't plan to sleep between

now and polling hours a night important to

you? I don't think I'm getting

eight hours a night but I'm

getting enough. Good to see getting enough. Good to see

you. We'll talk no doubt in the aftermath. Thanks so much.