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The War -

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The world contains evil. And if it didn't contain evil,

to try to construct religions. we probably wouldn't need No evil, no God, I think. No, of course, no evil, now war.

that we need to entertain. But this is not a human possibility There will always be plenty of evil. And there'll always be wars. are aggressive animals. Because human beings

The hard won Allied victory in Europe had delighted Americans back home. still fighting in the Pacific But the hundreds of thousands of men knew that the war was far from over.

Eugene Sledge of Mobile, of the Battle of Peleliu, who had endured the horrors what he called, "The abyss." would once again be forced to enter from Fort Deposit, Alabama, Glenn Frazier 3.5 years of brutal captivity, who had survived

were not his only enemy. would find that the Japanese SEWING MACHINE WHIRRS of Sacramento and Luverne, And the people Waterbury and Mobile, and every other American town bad news from the battlefield knew that there would be more

before they could dare hope to know to live once again what it would be like in a world without war.

ARTILLERY THUDS SHELLS BOOM BATTLE RAGES

AUTOMATIC GUNFIRE much difference on Okinawa. It didn't really make

gonna fight any less hard The Japanese were not because Hitler was out of it. a certain satisfaction I suppose there was

that we'd beaten that lot, entirely to this lot. and could now turn our attention there was much excitement. But aside from that I don't think CANNON FIRES RAPIDLY

have been on the moon. ACTOR: "Nazi Germany might as well "On Okinawa, no-one cared much. "We were resigned only to the fact to total extinction, "that the Japanese would fight "as they had elsewhere. would have to invaded "And that Japan "with the same gruesome prospects.

"Eugene Sledge."

was not going well. The Battle for Okinawa and central parts of the island The marines had cleared the northern by mid-April. unable to blast the Japanese But in the south, the army had been from their main defensive positions - around the walled town of Shuri. a succession of limestone ridges PLANE WHINES, AAA GUN BLASTS

The navy, battered daily offshore and other Japanese warplanes, by kamikazes landing behind the Japanese lines demanded that the army undertake a from two sides simultaneously. so that they could be attacked The army commander refused.

the 1st Marine Division, And on 1 May, Eugene Sledge's outfit, the centre of the American line. was sent south to shore up us on the other side of the road, ACTOR: "A column of men approached

27th Infantry Division "from the 106th Regiment,

"that we were relieving. revealed where they had been. "Their tragic expressions dirty and grisly, "They were deadbeat, "hollow-eyed and tight-faced. one tall lanky fella caught my eye, "As they filed past us,

"It's hell up there, Marine." "and said in a weird voice, "Yeah, I know. I was at Peleliu." "I said, with some impatience,

and moved on." "He looked at me blankly EXPLOSION BOOMS

the marines struggled to find cover. Japanese shells shrieked down as BATTLE RAGES Friends died, alongside Sledge on Peleliu. old friends who had fought or wounded with such regularity, "Replacement lieutenants were killed he remembered, feet more than once or twice. "that they rarely saw them on their "And never got to know their names."

BATTLE RAGES SAFETY PIN CLICKS

GRENADE EXPLODES Get down! Get down! towards Shuri, The marines inched their way out of their hiding places, blasting and burning the enemy one ridge, one village, one gully at a time.

more difficult to go back ACTOR: "I found it to move forward. "each time we squared away our gear back into action obsessed me. "The increasing dread of going the most torturous and persistent "It became the subject of that have haunted me "of all the ghastly war nightmares "for many, many years. "The dream is always the same -

the bloody month of May on Okinawa." "going back up to the lines during Terrible things happened at Okinawa. above the battle But a man in airplane

doesn't see the terrible things. explosions, What I saw was drifting smoke, you see destruction.

You can imagine the devastation, but you don't exactly see it. You don't see the dead civilians who died in their thousands. You don't see the dead Japanese.

You don't even see your own dead.

on buildings that blew up, I dropped some bombs I suppose I killed somebody. and if there was anybody in them I don't know. I'd like to think I didn't, I was being paid for, but that's what was to kill people. BOMBS EXPLODE

a carefully staged withdrawal In late-May, the Japanese began from the Shuri line, to their last redoubt - slipping back 10 miles or so

at the island's southern end. another series of ridges GRENADE EXPLODES its last defenders were killed, It would be three more weeks before

committed suicide. and their commanders By then, 92,000 Japanese soldiers 100,000 Okinawan civilians were dead. and as many as

of Eugene Sledge's company K, Of the 235 members just 26 emerged unhurt. who landed on Okinawa, to replace those who had fallen, Of the 254 brought in

only 24 remained. more than 12,000 Americans died. In the end, 60,000 were wounded. The worst losses of the Pacific War. Private First Class JJ McCarthy, Among the dead were a water-bearer, Sergeant Jeff Fleming of Sacramento,

Lowell Rue of Luverne, Private First Class and Private Earnest Roy of Mobile. to move on to Japan itself, As the Allies prepared seemed inevitable. still more terrible losses AIRPLANE DRONES that in the invasion of Japan We were told

single-engine bombing squadron we would be the first land-based of the Japanese home island. to go in, be in on the invasion We all felt that. That would be heroic stuff.

But at the same time, by then our sense of the strangeness of the Japanese opposition had become stronger.

And I could imagine every farmer with his pitchfork coming at my guts, every pretty girl with a hand grenade strapped to her bottom

or something, that everyone would be an enemy.

The Allies plan to begin with the island of Kyushu on November 1, 1945. More than 500,000 Japanese troops were already in position to repel them. And another six million were either under arms or ready to be called up. Women and schoolchildren were drilling with sharpened bamboo spears. The Americans did not expect to be able to move against the larger island of Honshu until April of 1946. Former President Herbert Hoover headed a commission that suggested

500,000 Americans might die before the islands could be taken, along with perhaps seven million more Japanese. Military planners came up with different estimates, but all anyone knew was that the cost in casualties was likely to be astronomical. The end of the war in the Pacific still seemed very far away. GIs who had once talked of, "Getting home alive in '45," began to coin new slogans - "Back in the sticks in '46," "Back to heaven in '47," even, "Golden Gate in '48."

NEWSREEL MUSIC PLAYS NEWSREEL ANNOUNCER: The Soviet Premier, the remaining member of the original Roosevelt-Churchill-Stalin Big Three. Now President Truman greets Prime Minister Attlee, and the conference of the Big Three at Potsdam sets the policy of the Allied powers. In mid-July, the Allies met in Germany at Potsdam and set forth the terms under which they would agree to end the war.

Japan's leaders would have to abandon every inch of their empire, face trial for war crimes, submit to being disarmed,

and agree to American occupation until a new democratically-elected government could be established. "Unless they agree to all of it," the declaration warned, "they could expect the utter devastation "of the Japanese homeland." Japan chose not to respond to the Allied ultimatum and tried instead to persuade Russia, which had never declared war on Japan,

to broker more favourable surrender terms.

For most of Japan's leaders, despite the agony the Japanese people were enduring, despite the even greater agony that seemed sure to come, unconditional surrender still remained unthinkable. On August 5, on the island of Tinian,

a secret object was placed aboard a B-29 named for the mother of its pilot - 'The Enola Gay'. It was an atomic bomb. It had originally been intended for use against the Germans, who had been feverishly working to make a bomb of their own.

But it had not been ready for delivery before they surrendered. The American bomb had been developed under such strict secrecy that the new president had never heard of the project before he assumed office. But once he was told about it, Truman approved the bomb's use as soon as it was ready. B-29 ROARS PAST At 8:15 in the morning on August 6, 1945,

the bomb tumbled through the bomb bay doors of the 'Enola Gay'.

43 seconds later, six miles below, the city of Hiroshima, but still high above it detonated. Changing the world forever. EXPLOSION BOOMS 40,000 men, women and children With a single bomb, were obliterated in an instant.

would die within days 100,000 thousand more of burns and radiation. to radiation poisoning Another 100,000 would succumb over the next five years.

citizens of Hiroshima More than half a century later, long-delayed side effects. would still be dying from the bomb's

Despite the devastation,

the Allied surrender terms. the Japanese still would not accept Then on August 8, the Soviet Union declared war on Japan. The islands now faced invasion on two fronts. At 11:02 the following morning, an American plane dropped a second atomic bomb on the city of Nagasaki. Some 40,000 more civilians died instantly. The Americans had no more such bombs, and would be unable to produce another for several months.

But the Japanese had no way of knowing that.

In Tokyo, the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War still determined to fight on remained split between those

to give up. and those willing, finally, all six members of the council That evening, who broke the deadlock. called upon the Emperor, Japan would surrender. for the landings in Japan. Everything was set and it ended it so quickly, So when the atomic bomb was dropped we were stunned but rejoiced. Our boys would come home. any more of them killed. There wouldn't be anyone of my generation You can never convince was not greatest thing that the atomic bomb

that they ever came up with, because we'll defy you. It was just finally the end of that horrible war. I had very mixed feelings about it. That the atom bomb could be blasted on fellow humans

whose blood is as red as mine, whose skin blistered as readily as mine does. It was something I had hoped could be avoided. Of course there is the mathematical odds that by killing some quarter million Japanese,

we may have saved half a million American lives. Mathematically that's a good thing. someone else's life. But it's hard to give up Glenn Frazier of Alabama For nearly three years,

had been prisoner of war in Japan. the guards at the prison camp After the surrender, simply walked away. among the dazed civilian population Frazier and his comrades wandered out and freedom. and took the train to Tokyo would never surrender. ACTOR: "We thought the Japanese "Many refused to believe it. we remembered our dead. "Sittin' in stunned silence, "So many dead. scattered shouts of joy, "Except for a few wily

sat hollow-eyed in silence... "the survivors of the abyss

a world without war - "..trying to comprehend "Eugene Sledge." CROWD CHEERS, BIG BAND MUSIC PLAYS

VJ Day. I was in San Francisco. And it just blew up.

People came out of everywhere, out of every door, out of every window, they even came out of the sewer. going down the street You could cop a feel and nobody would say a word.

Well, my dad was so excited that he ran in the room from World War I and he got his pistol and we went out of the front door and he filled it around that Azalea bush, and if you go dig are still in the Azalea bush. I know the bullets into the Azalea bush, He fired six rounds

and said to my brother and I, brought the pistol back in the house We're going downtown!" "Come on, gang! And he threw Mother in the car

to Admiral Sims' statue. and we drove down times, honking his horn. And Daddy circled it three or four So by the time we left downtown, Admiral Sims' statue people were climbing up

and the celebration had begun. started the celebration for VJ Day." But I've always said, "My Daddy BIG BAND MUSIC PLAYS newsboys peddling a special In Waterbury, Connecticut, of the 'Waterbury American' 'War is over' edition were on the street within 60 seconds

formal announcement. of the President's Every firehouse siren and factory whistle in town began to blow. We didn't even know the people we were hugging and kissing. and they didn't know who we were. We didn't know who they were, It was just a joyous time. 'cause we're thinking, It was a happy, happy time are gonna come home." "Well, now all our boys

CHURCH BELL TOLLS held at every Waterbury church That evening, special services were and Synagogue. for the good news, As a sign of profound gratitude climbed the hill some Italian-American women on their knees. to Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church

FOG HORN BLARES SOMBRE MUSIC PLAYS

the Golden Gate Bridge We sailed under and then to San Francisco Bay. the pier, there... And as we approached I get a little choked up. ..there was the American flag. over American soil. Seeing it flying high in the breeze And it was the most gratifying thing,

'cause we never dreamed that we would ever get back. It was a bunch of prisoners of war on there, and we stood there, couldn't even say anything, with tears in our eyes. And as we docked I was the second one to get off, and I kissed the ground. and I get down on the ground of war that was on that ship And every one of the prisoners

and kissed the ground. got off the gangplank

clapping their hands every time And the audience out there was just and welcomed us home. in the world. And it was the greatest feeling

back in Fort Deposit, Alabama, Glenn Frazier's family that he had died in the Philippines. had officially been informed TELEPHONE RINGS a phone call home We were told we could make at the expense of the government. So I made my phone call to my home, by my mother. and the phone was answered And I told her who it was about all these letters and I didn't know anything and the guy coming in telling them I was dead, so she answered the phone and then she fainted.

And the phone went dead. And then her sister was there visiting, and she fainted when I told her who it was, and then my oldest sister came to the phone and she fainted. So then there was a long pause and my daddy answered the phone.

He said, "Who in the world is this?" and I used my middle name at home, And so I told him "This is Dowling." it was Dowling, I said, "Well, I knew you weren't dead, And he said, a bunch of dead women here, "but it looks like I've got up off the floor." "I've gotta get them

don't go away now. So he said, "Now you hold on, "I'll be back in a minute." a pitcher of water, So he goes and gets and he's pouring some water on their face,

comes back to the phone, he said, Their eyes are moving. "I think they're waking up. "Some of them's moving a little bit. "They'll be able to talk to you in a little bit."

And that's when they knew I was in San Francisco. SHIP HORN BLARES By the fall of 1945, 750,000 service personnel were returning to civilian life every month.

No matter how great, no matter how small, no matter how indifferent, no matter how stupendous, regardless of the facts, home has unique quality that just cannot be exceeded. Home is the ultimate value that humans venerate. Waterbury, Connecticut, The war had rescued that had provided its nickname - and the industries Brass City.

to making the screws and washers And at first it's workers returned shower heads and alarm clocks, and buttons, toy airplanes and lipstick holders, making before Pearl Harbour. and cocktail shakers they'd been the brass industry declined. But as the years went by So did Brass City.

Ray Leopold came home for a time, then moved away, became a fundraiser for charity. went into business and eventually I ran into a young man who was the brother of a young man I had known reasonably well. He said, "What outfit were you with, Ray?" And I told him, "That I was with the 28th Infantry." "Really?" he said, "My brother was with that outfit." And I said, "Where is your brother?" He said, "Oh, he didn't make it. He's dead. "He was killed in action." And then he turned, he says, "You were with the 28th too, and you are home and he isn't."

He couldn't get over the idea that someone so dear to him as his brother couldn't make it. And someone who was more or less an indifferent third person made it.

There are casualties in war that they never show up as casualties. They're internal casualties. We all changed. We went out as a bunch of kids and of course we were fought by kids, and we came back, looked maybe the same, but inside we were so different. They thought we were just odd, I guess. They thought, "What's happened to Quent? What's wrong?" And I was wondering, "Nobody knows.

"Nobody understands. "And I am not good enough with words to be able to tell 'em."

Quentin and Jackie Aanenson did not return to his father's farm, south of Luverne. He went to Louisiana State University instead and eventually entered the insurance business. More than 1,000 citizens of Rock County, Minnesota, served in uniform during the war. 32 of them lost their lives. The names of all those who served were carefully painted on a wooden roll of honour in front of City Hall in Luverne. As the years passed, Minnesota winters wore away the names. One year, the monument taken down to be repainted and repaired. Somehow it was lost.

Our hope was we were gonna have a new life. And I remember driving up on the day that we drove through to the ranch and it was like being in 'Alice In Wonderland'. It was absolutely amazing.

Sascha Weinzheimer and her family, who had nearly starved to death as prisoners of the Japanese in Manilla, settled on their late-grandfather's farm in the Sacramento Valley. It was some sort of cultural shock, coming back, because your body's here but your mind isn't.

And to have to put up with the stupidity of some of the Americans that had been living here, they'd walk in a room and say, "Oh, tell us about your experience."

And then immediately they'd say, "Oh, we had these coupons that had to be rationed, "and then we couldn't go here because they had gasoline." And so we just sort of avoided everything. And when people were talking to us about our experience, we just clammed up because they didn't want to hear it anyway. SOFT JAZZ MUSIC PLAYS

Sacramento's wartime transformation

from small town state capital to big city would prove permanent. State government grew too. So did the military bases on Sacramento's outskirts as the World War was eventually supplanted by the Cold War.

Among the Sacramentons returning home were thousands of Japanese-Americans newly freed from the inland camps in which they had been imprisoned for no other reason than their ancestry. They struggled to recover their property and rebuild their lives. CROWD CHEERS The men of the 104th 42nd Combat Team came home too. Robert Kashiwagi, wounded four times in Italy and France, got a job with the California Highway Department. When I showed up in the shop, this one fellow from the floor went to his foreman and he says,

"Hey, look, if that Jap is gonna work here, I'm quittin'." And the foreman told me that. And I says, "Well, you know, I passed my test "and I served overseas, "and I think I did what I was supposed to do, "so I'm gonna hold my position and I'm gonna remain here." And I did. And so, as I remained there, he quit.

And then everything turned a little bit better as time went on, and it got easier and easier for me.

and retire. So I was able to serve 32 years into a boom town. The war had made Mobile But only a few years after it ended, had already disappeared. some 40,000 defence jobs

small towns where they'd been living Some workers left the city for the when the war began. to bigger cities in search of work. Others move north and west who had fought for freedom overseas, Returning black veterans, the same segregation found themselves facing they had left behind. discussed in distaste with you It would be matter of victory were not yours. when you found out that the fruits I never did appreciate going to work at night, and the police officer would stop you at night and say,

"Hey, boy, where you goin'?" And you come up to answer him, "You got your hat on. "Take your hat off when you talk to a white man," and that kind of stuff. And I'd worked all night, just about, at the railroad, and didn't have a car, so I had to walk home. I cried all the way home. It was hurt. John Gray eventually went on to college, and then a beloved school principal became a teacher for 50 years in Mobile. and community leader an airline stewardess, Catherine Phillips briefly became

and married a former navy pilot.

encountered terrible suffering Her younger brother Sid, who had with the 1st Marine Division, while serving to do something about it, and vowed to find a way and became a doctor. went on to medical school for whom he could do nothing. But there was one person

as good a friend as I've ever had My friend Eugene was probably in my whole life. But he could not throw off the war. He could not forget it. It seemed to haunt him.

ACTOR: "As I strolled the streets of Mobile, "civilian life seemed so strange. "People rushed around in a hurry "about seemingly insignificant things. "Few seemed to realise how blessed they were to be free

"and untouched by the horrors of war.

"To them, a veteran was a veteran. "All were the same, "whether one man had survived the deadliest combat, "or another had pounded a typewriter while in uniform." enthusiastic hunter before the war. Eugene Sledge had been an

had the heart for it. Now he found he no longer the same terror his targets felt "In combat he had felt "when he fired at them," he said, "and he couldn't bear it, that they could not shoot back." Nightmares plagued him. He earned a business degree under the GI Bill, tried the insurance business and abandoned it.

Eventually became a biologist and teacher. "Science was salvation," he remembered, "it helped keep at bay the flashbacks from Peleliu and Okinawa." "Close constant study of nature," his wife said,

"kept him from going mad.

But the war remained with him nonetheless. He still had the tiny sheets of paper on which he'd kept a journal in the Pacific. And finally, at his wife's urging, he turned it into a combat memoir called 'With The Old Breed'. Describing the horrors he had endured eventually allowed him to begin to put them behind him.

Eugene Sledge died in 2001. ACTOR: "Until the millennium arrives "and countries cease to enslave others, "it will be necessary to accept one's responsibility too,

"and to be willing to make sacrifices for one's country,

"as my comrades did. "War is brutish, inglorious and a terrible waste.

"Combat leaves an indelible mark on those who are forced to endure it. "The only redeeming factors my comrades' incredible bravery "and their devotion to each other -

"Eugene Sledge." My home town came out and gave a heroes welcome. Couldn't ask for anybody to be any nicer to you. But little did you know what was ahead, and I didn't until it started happening to me.

Glenn Frazier and his brother Avon,

who had served with the army in North Africa and Italy, happened to arrive home in Fort Deposit, Alabama, the same day. "Their mother," Frazier recalled, "seemed dazed to have both her boys back.

"But she remembered to give each of them a little pile Christmas packages "she'd bought and wrapped, but had been unable to send them "during the war." When the boys stepped out into the street, they were mobbed by friends and neighbours, happy to have them home. Before Frazier joined the army in 1941,

he had confessed to a high school classmate that he loved her.

She had waited patiently for him for other three years until the army formally told his family Glenn was dead. Frazier now eagerly asked after her. Hope that she and he would one day marry had help sustain him in captivity.

"I hate to tell you this," a friend told him, "but she's getting married this coming Sunday." That night the nightmares began. It was just like real life again. It was so real. It sorta kept me from sleeping. I got to the point where I didn't even want to go to sleep, my nerves were bothering me.

You couldn't tell anybody. You couldn't tell... In those days if you were seeing psychiatrist, it didn't make a difference whether it was military or what, nobody would give you a job. Psychiatrists working for the Veterans Administration were of little help. "Just act normal and you'll feel normal," they told him. Frazier eventually married, had two children,

ran his own trucking business, but the war would not go away. I hated the Japanese, as hard as anybody I believe could ever hate, for so long.

In mine it was deep. I think I was justified in the hate that I had.

But it come a time when it wasn't affecting them. They didn't even know I existed. They were there having their fun and getting their country straightened out, and here I am over here, I'm hating and hating and hating and having nightmares and so forth. And I had to get rid of it, I had to throw it off, because it was just completely destroying me.

And I prayed and with the preacher's help I got to the point to where I woke up one morning and I felt a little bit more rested. But my war lasted actually another 30 years.

To forget the war would be not just impossible, it would be immoral. It doesn't get to me very often except when I talk about it like this, and I seldom do that, actually. It's just something, it never goes way. It's something you have to endure the way you endured the war itself.

There's no alternative, you can't wipe out these memories. You can't wipe out what you felt at that time, or what you knew other people felt. This is part of your whole possession in life. And I suppose it does some good.

For all those Americans who lived through the terrible conflict, for those whose fathers and sons and brothers were lost or maimed, as well as for those whose only contact with combat was listening to the radio and reading the local paper,

it remains to this day simply the War.

ACTOR: "Luverne, Minnesota. "All week long with 'Silent Night' running through my head, "I've been groping for a Christmas story.

"Somehow the story always eluded me. "A lot of servicemen have been "and they told us where they'd spent last Christmas overseas. "But you didn't need to write a story about them. "The story of their happiness about being home "was written all over their faces for the world to see.

"And now comes the time when it becomes our turn "to extend our Christmas greetings to each and everyone of you. "May the joy of Christmas and a big share of its peace and beauty "be with you all every single day of the new year to come -

"Al McIntosh. 'Rock County Star Herald'." Closed Captions by CSI

This program is not subtitled

THEME MUSIC DELICATE STRING MUSIC

There are times when you get up really early to come down to the winery to do things. You walk down through the mist, you see the icicles on the vines,

you feel the ice crunching under your feet and you smell that air. You really know you're alive. Our whole existence in Huntington Estate is based on the earth, of course. If we didn't have the earth to grow the vines to turn into grapes to turn into wine, we wouldn't have our livelihood, we wouldn't have our... our excitement,

we wouldn't have our entertainment, our music festival. It all depends on the good earth. It's just part of you. A winter's day like today, it's going to be magical, as soon as this mist lifts. Ooh, it's magical now, but when you get that beautiful warm sun going through your bones... Wouldn't it be boring if we didn't have the seasons?

I was born under a coconut tree in Papua New Guinea and came to Australia during the war. I always wanted to be on the land. When I left school, I went to ag college at Wagga. Did law. That took five years. While doing that, I was looking out for something else to do associated with the land. I was very much drawn to this industry because you grow your grapes, you manufacture your wine,

then you have the problem or the pleasure - however you view it - of marketing it. We've had some marvellous things in our life due to having made the move to Mudgee. Over 22 years ago, developed the now quite well-known Huntington Music Festival. DVORAK'S STRING SERENADE

Well, spring is the beginning of life, the resurrection after the slumberin of the winter - I suppose that's one way to look at it. And, er, summer is the powerhouse of the whole...the whole cycle,

where things are growing, the crops are ripening. We're going to see that this crop is going to produce us the greatest red wine we've made in 35 years. That's always a possibility. And it's one of the exciting things about winemaking - no two years are the same. I can't think of two vintages that...that are very similar.

They all vary. It's a bit like the cycle of life, I suppose. Susie, our daughter, has always shown an interest in winemaking. And I found this rather daunting, of course. That meant I had more responsibilities to pass something on to her. She's been responsible for making our wine since 19...well, 9 years now. This is the first block of shiraz we planted. So that was in 1969.

And I think it's the best...the best shiraz comes from that block. Susan tends to think the block next to it makes the best shiraz so perhaps I'm a little bit sentimental about it, but I walk past those every day that I go to work - they're old friends. Making a product that people enjoy - it's a great feeling, rather than be confronted with conflict and human frailties

and all those sorts of things that other people might have to do from day to day in their life experiences. We came to Mudgee and we've helped develop the area by example, by being here, by getting noticed, by making very good red wines. Who knows - in a hundred years time, people might be sitting down drinking our wines,

saying, "Gosh, isn't that terrific?" And it's been captured there - a year. A year in a vineyard is captured in that bottle. Supertext Captions by the Australian Caption Centre www.auscap.com.au

And here you come into the guest room.

Or you could call it the sex room, 'cause it's meant to be a sexy place. The main point of it is a copy of Sir John Soane's breakfast room, at his house in London. And he has a breakfast room there that all the light comes around a low dome, a flat dome like this. And it is one of the best rooms in London.

It's small, it's just nothing. But the richness, the layering of space, that was what I took away from it. In the early '60s I saw the Soane Museum. I saw that enchanting panelled room where the Hogarths are hung,

and you open successive layers of panels. The idea that an architect could have so much fun. I went to Dulwich picture gallery. It was easy to see how great a picture gallery could be.

The desire was to create a museum in which the visitor could see works of art only in natural light during the day, without a need for any artificial light. And of course this led us back to John Soane.

Historians tell us that Soane was a controversial architect and I think that's attractive to us, 'cause we've always been, in our more modest way, controversial.

John Soane was one of the great architects