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(generated from captions) Virginia, this gum is covered

with white flowers at the

moment which makes it look

it is covered in snow. I don't it is covered in snow. I don't

know the name but we can

discuss it over the cool one. I

was wondering if you have a

brolly. I have a broley. It is

the first time I have ever

heard you say you don't know

the name of a flower. I'm in

shock. Three extremists who

plotted a terrorist attack on a Sydney military base have been

given lengthy prison sentences. Music industry personality Ian

'Molly' Meldrum remains in a

critical condition in hospital

after a heavy fall. His brother

says he is making progress.

That is the news for now. Stay

with us for 7:30 with Goodnight. Closed Captions by Uhlmann. Have a great weekend.

CSI. This Program is

Captioned Live.

Captioned Live. Welcome to

7.30. I'm Chris Uhlmann.

Tonight - Indonesia's shock

decision to halve Australian cattle imports. Is it payback. I've got no doubt in

my mind that the action that without any consultation with the Indonesian government has deeply offended Government up

there and people in

general. And we remember the

late awe their Christopher Hitchens. The

Hitchens. The thought of

mortality, in other words,

being outlived, is fine when it

is your children, your books or your trees. It your trees. It doesn't

death. reconcile you to an early

interview Peter O'Neill, one of

the two men who claims to be

Prime Minister of Papua New

Guinea. First, the saga over

live cattle exports has been

overnight. The Indonesian revived with a surprise

Agriculture Minister has confirmed his country will

nearly halve its imports next

year. Some in the industry see

it as payback for Australia's

export ban in June in the wake

I've Four Corner's expose on

cruelty in Indonesian

abattoirs. Others urge against

jumping to conclusions and are will be flexible. Peter

McCutcheon reports. For many

the northern Australian cattle export industry is a export industry is a wonder of

global trade. Australia has

the land and the cattle, and

Indonesia has the market. But

such an arrangement is subject

in both countries to political

slash its live whim. Indonesia's decision to

quotas next year by nearly a

half wasn't expected. We knew

that the Indonesians have a

program to be self sustainable

in beef and that they were

reducing a number of permits,

but the size of the reduction

was a bit surprising. But the

development inevitably raises

questions about the political

whims of the Gillard

Government. In particular, the

wisdom. Decision earlier this

year to place a temporary ban on

because of disturbing reports

of animal cruelty in Indonesian

my mind that the action that abattoirs. I've got no doubt in

was taken by our Government without any consultation with

the Indonesian Government has

deeply owe offended government

up there and people in general.

Believe this is partly

payback. The origins of this

latest controversy go back to 2005 when the Indonesian

Government announced a plan to

become self-sufficient in beef.

The Government set an timetable that proved to be

totally unrealistic. With

Australian imports jumping to a

record 7 70,000 in 2009. Because of the explosion

probably or the very rapid rise

in the imports of cattle in the

last three years, it's become a

very noticeable increase and I

think perhaps some parts of it

got a little bit out of

control. There was a domestic backlash with claims the

destroy Australian imports could backlash with claims the

destroy the livelihoods of four

million local cattle producers

on small farms across the

archipelago. TRANSLATION:

The government must deal with

these people because we're talking about people living in the villages and there are

problems like poverty and the

difficulties that flow from

it. The situation in Indonesia

is more complicated that poor

mighty Australian beef local farmers pitted against

producers. Because the

Australian imports create a

significant local industry in

Indonesia, the feed lots that

fatten the steers prior to

Cattlemen's Association reasons why the Australian

believes the situation is salvageable. Well, I wouldn't like to guess what Indonesian businesses will be like to guess what the

saying to their government, but

like all businesses they like to keep their business running at capacity. Yet, undeniably,

Indonesia is getting more serious about self-sufficiency.

Its import quota for next year

has been cut significantly from

just over 500,000 head of

cattle to a considerably more modest 280,000. There's an out

clause. Indonesia in the past

has shown some flexibility with import quotas. I the

Australian industry should be Australian industry should

take comfort from the fact that

the Indonesian Trade Minister

has said that he'll keep an eye

on beef prices and if they

start to rise, he will issue

additional permits. That's got

to be comforting to the industry. At this stage, it

looks like at least some of

Australia's northern cattle

herd will have to another destination. Those

cattle that are going to be

surplus will obviously enter

the southern markets of

Australia because there are northern killing facilities in the

northern part of Australia and

those - that will then affect

the markets in southern

Australia as well, have a depressing effect on those

markets. Tim D'Arcy is a

retired pastoralist and former WA representative on Cattle

Council. He sees links between

this slash to permits and the

political controversy over the

Australian Government's export

ban back in I've got no doubt in my mind

that this is just a flow-on

effect from the action that was

take by our Government and the

unfortunate part about it is

that how you can explain why a

Government would take the

action it took without actually

consulting the trading partner. It is

partner. It is a theme taken up

today by Opposition leader Tony

Abbott. When this whole

disaster happened, remember

what brought it on? It was a Government to a television program. The Cattle Council is

not so sure. The Indonesians

were upset by the way that the ban was ban was enforced, the

suspension was enforced, and

they said so at the time, but I

don't believe that this

announcement of quota is

anything to do with that. A

reduction in Indonesian import

her had permits it's argued was

always on the cards. The size

of the cut is a warning to an

industry so reliant on industry so reliant on just one market. I think the community is more surprised than the

industry because industry was

aware of the Indonesian's

program and industry program and industry has been

out there very actively looking

for other markets and

developing other markets. A

constitutional crisis has raged in Papua New Guinea for five days since the Supreme Court ruled its Prime Minister, Peter

O'Neill, had taken the job

unlawfully. He's predecessor,

Sir Michael Somare, then

claimed to be Minister and his cabinet was

sworn in by the

Governor-General. Mr O'Neill clearly controls the number in Parliament and this afternoon

he declared that I'd taken control of the country. Peter

O'Neill joins us from Port

Moresby. Welcome, Mr O'Neill. Thank you very much. By what authority do you claim to be Prime Minister? Well, Prime Ministers are only

leaked in Parliament and that's

the only way we have been

elected Prime Ministers for the

last 36 years of independence.

Supreme Court reference in the

past has always been that they make reference to Parliament. Parliament then takes note of

that reference if there's any issues about constitutional

issues on the provisions under

which such an action has been

taken. For the first time in

the history of our country, the

Supreme Court has now made a

direct order which is quite strange and at the same time

the order is supposed to go to

Parliament and not any other

person, and the Parliament has taken note of that order has

dealt with it, has disposed of

it, and, at the same time,

under the provisions of the amendments to the Prime

Minister and NEC Act has now

installed a new Prime Minister

through a vote on Monday. Your Governor-General also

interprets the law and he

clearly interpreted in a

different way and swore in Sir Michael Somare's cabinet. The Governor-General has announced

earlier he has been totally

confused. Further, he has been wrongly constitution clearly provides

that he can only take advice from the National Executive

Council or the Parliament. In the case of a prime ministerial appointment it must take advice

from Parliament. The Speaker

of Parliament has advised him

the election has taken place, the Prime Minister election is valid and the new Prime

Minister of the country is

myself. I see no reason why he

should not have sworn in the

new Prime Minister. Are you in

control of all the police force, because, clearly, the

other day, when you went to Government House there were some police who were loyal to

Sir Michael? I don't think it is about loyalty. Some elements of the police force

were being - has been used in

unauthorised force in creating the blockade into the Government house. I'm further

advised that the

Governor-General himself did

not request that protection.

Unfortunately, the situation

arose where the confrontation took place where members of Parliament and Minister of

state were blocked from having When in fact Government House

was advised that such a process

now taking place, where

election is taking place by Parliament, the speaker

informed him, given him the

instruments to sign, but some

undue influence, other than

that, has influenced the

Governor-General to go out and swear in Sir Michael

Somare. Are you in control of the army? The Supreme Court -

the army has all maintained a neutrality in

neutrality in all these issues

and we commend them for that. Pap New Guinea's Defence Force

is always maintained that given

that past experiences that

they've encountered in such a

situation has taught us a very

good lessons whereby we're now

addressing those issues and the

Defence Force commander,

despite the call out that has

been given by the Somare camp

which is inillegal call out

because it has to go through Parliament, to have that call out Force maintained they will not adhere to the call out that

they've made. Today, the

elements in the police force

have surrendered to the

Commissioner of police, Tom

Kulunga, who is the legally mandated Commissioner of Police

in our country, and he's now

has fall control of the police

force in the country. Elements

of the police force that has been participating in these

problems will now be dealt with

according to the laws in our country. Where

Mr O'Neill? I have no idea

where he is. I'm certain where he is. I'm certain that

he's rest ing inPort Moresby

and I wish him good luck. I

understand that he's still

recuperating from his health

problems. Are you intending to take any action against him or

any members of his cabinet?

Not necessarily, because it is

not my job to go around arresting people and intimidating people. I have

been mandated by Parliament. I

have not tried to take

government by barrel of gun

such as Sir Michael and his group

has happened is they forced the

Governor-General, under guard

by police elements which were unauthorised by the

Commissioner of Police, and

allowed Sir Michael to go out

there and take government,

swearing government in

Government House. That's why

the Governor-General has been suspended and this morning I can assure you that the National Executive Council has National Executive Council has

now dismissed him and we're now

advising Parliament to take a

vote with an absolute majority.

We are recommending he be

dismissed from

not concerned your government

will lack legitimacy? Although you control Parliament the other arms that make up

government you have completely trade duesed, the Supreme Court, the Governor-General? The Governor-General's office

is merely an office where it

represents the head of state in

our country. But their

functions are limited within the framework of our

constitution. He only takes advice from National Executive

Council and national Parliament. He can't

That's a matter of fact. This

is what has happened. He's

taken advice from other people

and the courts have not even

directed him to carry out a swearing in ceremony for Sir

Michael. This is why he needs

to go. Mr O'Neill, aren't you

concerned about the damage

you've done to your country's

institutions and that might

have some permanent effects? I

don't believe there's any

damage to the country. We have

a very vibrant democracy. allow political debates to

continue freely in this

country. We allow freedom of speech in this country, freedom

of expression, and I see no reason why a vibrant political

debate is going to do any harm to

to the country. Have you spoken to the Australian Prime

Minister? Pardon? Have you spoken to the Australian Prime

Minister? I have no reason to

speak to the Australian Prime

Minister. I don't necessarily

need their help to solve my

problems in my own country. Is Government now stable? Government is very stable.

We've a majority of 72 members

in the floor of Parliament out

of 107 members. That is a

clear, very huge mandate that's

been given to my Government. I

see no reason why we cannot

provide the stability, the

political stability, that this

country deserves. We have had

gross mismanagement of the

country for the last 36 years

of our independence. We have

corruption rife if across the

country. We have many challenges in education and law and order, infrastructure. People are seek sick and tired of this

kind of leader thin in this

country. They need assertive leadership, leadership that

cares for the people of the country, leadership that's

going to deliver for the people of the country. Mr O'Neill,

thank you. Thank you very

much. It's the biggest

intelligence breach ever. Private Bradley Manning has

been in a US jail awaiting

trial since May last year

accusing of sending

classified documents to Wikileaks. He hasn't had the profile of Wikileaks founder

Julian Assange, but in America,

Private Manning has been described described by some as a here

error and others as traitor. Michael Brissenden reports this

weekend a military court will begin hearing his case. For 18

months now, Julian Assange has

been the face of the biggest

intelligence leak in history,

the frontman for a story that

changed the closed world of

diplomacy and some would endangered lives and compromised international

relationships as well. There

disclosure is about the truth. But it is alleged Julian

Assange's Wikileaks wouldn't

have been nearly as imfeign must it's become without one

other player in this saga who

so far has attract the far less

public attention. This weekend

all that's set to change. Put

into context, we had leaks

before, usually involves one

person, a stack of documents,

probably on one issue or one country. The leak happens.

There's impact overseas. But

you manage that impact because

it is very focused. This

involved everything, you know, every relationship in

United States had with every

country in the world. I think Bradley Manning is seen as

somebody who is being charged

with telling the truth F he's

guilty of what he's accused of,

he didn't sell the documents to

a foreign power, he didn't make

any profit from it, dent give

them to our enemy. He's guilty

of charged with is providing the documents to the the American people can know

what the truth is about US

foreign policy. Before his

arrest in May 2010, Private Bradley Manning this Bradley Manning this been just another junior intelligence

analyst. Since then, he's

become a cause celebre in some

areas. Kevin Zeese is a lawyer

with the Bradley Manning support network. He also

happens to be the organiser of

the occupy DC emcampment that

sits a few blocks from the

capital. In this something of a folk-hero.

Occupy Washington DC has a lot

of support for Bradley Manning.

We believe with a dem mock

advertised immediate yoo.. we support Bradley Manning and

want to see him get a fair trial. Bradley Manning case has attracted a considerable amount

of protest. No doubt his trial

will attract more. The preliminary hearing that starts

this weekend, will just be the

start of what's expected to be

a long trial process. Manning

is facing 22 charges that rest

on the chat logs of another cyber hacker. The precise moment at

which I felt that Bradley

Manning was doing was a danger

to national security and to the

lives of others was when he

characterised one of his leaks

as being in excess of a quarter of million State Department documents. Adrian Lamo doesn't

speak to the media much, but

earlier this year he did agree

to this skype interview with

the ABC's Four Corner's program. He says approached him online after

learning of their shared

interest in Wikileaks. I knew

for a fact, beyond a shadow of

a doubt, he could have vetted all of the

documents himself for safety.

It was simply being released in

bulk to an unauthorised third

party, a third party that had

an unknown agenda. It is clear

that Wikileaks revelations have

concerned concern and embarrass bar hasment at the heart of the

US political tis tem. Government's respondent hasn't

gone without criticism either.

For his first Puy few months in prison Manning

prison Manning was kept in solitary confinement for 23

hours a day. PJ Crowley was forced resign after labelling Manning's treatment in prison

ridiculous and stupid. I spoke out because I thought it was

important that we correct his important that we correct his

treatment not because of a

question was guilt of

innocence, but simply to remove

an issue that had coloured international reaction to this

case. Crowley is certainly no

defender of Bradley Manning.

In fact, although the

Government hasn't specifically said the Wikileaks revelations

have had fatal repercussions,

PJ Crowley is one who believes

they may have. It is a fact.

It is hard to separate, you

know. If somebody has been know. If somebody has been killed in a particular country is it because they were trying

to upset the status quo? Is it because they were talking to a

journalist, a US diplomat or something in between? can't separate the two. Certainly, people who are doing

things and putting themselves

at risk around the world have absolutely absolutely positively been

injured and killed in the past

year since these revelations

came out. The Bradley Manning

hearing will be conducted under

the tightest of security, only nine reporters will be allowed

into the court. There will be no telecommunications, no laptops, no cell phones and

certainly no cameras allowed to

be used a any time while the

court is in session. These might seen like previsions but they're standard

procedure for a US military

court. The supporters of

Bradley Manning say the

military court itself in this

case could be the biggest

impediment to justice. The jury, jury, the judge, the convening

officer are all under send

President Obama demand. A fair trial

trial is almost impossible. This is what leads

the Manning supporters to that

position. It is a badly recorded video but when asked directly about the Bradley

Manning case, President Obama

makes his views clear. Broke

the law. How you can be an

officer hoping to have a career

in the military and go against the commander in whof o chief

who pronounced this guy guilty. What will happen will

go forward before a judge and a

jury and whatever happens in

this trial will be subject to review and appeal. I have

every confidence that a

military justice system can

deliver justice. A a fair verdict. The Bradley Manning

supporters see this as a matter of freedom of and accountability. But some

have equated to the famous

Pentagon papers dealing with the Vietnam War that were leaked by Daniel Elsberg in the

1960s. Mr Elsberg himself is

one of those. I would say that Bradley Manning has shown a

willingness to give his life,

his freedom, a life of freedom,

for his country and you can't

be more patriotic than

that. Others see it as a cut

and dried case of criminal

conduct that continues to have far reaching implications. I

disagree with Daniel Elsberg in this case. this case. Pushing out this

volume of information has put

people, sources, processes at

risk and Bradley Manning stands accused of a serious

crime. Michael Brissenden with

that report. Christopher

Hitchens was one of the world's

great wordsmiths. Across his

long and rich career his essay

as in written and spoke English

proved that words can be

weapons. He was a contrarian

who tilted at religious,

politics and literature enormous intellect and whit.

Love him or hate him you

couldn't ignore him. He died

tore at 62 losing his final

argument with cancer. Here he is in conversation with Tony Jones Very good to see

you. Tony. You talked about

crossing a border into the land

of malady. What is that like?

For me personally it was a

bit like being deported in that

I woke up in New York having

gone to bed feeling more or

less okay. During a very

gruelling book tour and I woke

in the morning thinking I was

actually dying. The whole

liquid sack, the pericardium,

as it is called, around my

heart had filled up. It

my whole chest cavity had been

crammed with wet cement. I couldn't move, I couldn't

breathe. I managed to call the

emergency service and these wonderful New Yorkers arrived,

very heavily armed and with

cuffs and tore ches and boots

and I remember thinking idly as

they load immediate into the

ambulance, why do they this for one stricken civilian. It was a bit like being

arrested and deported and in

fact, in their kindly way, they

were escorting me across the

frontier. From the land of frontier. From the land of the

well into the land of the very

ill indeed. How do you feel

about the people who are

praying for you? It seems to

me a bit crass to be trying to

talk to people about conversion

when you know they're ill. The

whole idea of hovering over a

sick person who is worried and perhaps saying now is the time to

reconsider, strikes me as Tunis opportunist at the very best. It is inevitable when a

famous atheist faces death that this will happen. There's

something fishy to me in the

suggestion okay now your system

is breaking down, wouldn't it

be a good moment for you to

repudiate the convictions of a lifetime? lifetime? Again, there's

something about the underlying assumption there I want resist. Let's talk briefly

about that day, September 11,

2001. Yes. You described it very tellingly soon soon

afterwards if not on the day as

being as if Charles Manson had

been made good for a day. I

think about it every day,

still. One of the more

remarkable things that happened

in the aftermath was the

reaction of some on the left

and I'm sure this rather your, helped galvanise the transformation that you were

already undergoing. Once I'd

sorted out my various impressions of the day which I

had in common with everyone

else, which also included the realisation that a friend of

mine had just been flown into the walls of the Pentagon, I

felt with that additional

horror much as everyone else

did, you had to discover, go

work through shock, rage, fear

not so much oddly mean, I didn't feel I was

frightened by it, but I was

very powerfully shaken by it.

It is a summons of a sort. Okay, Okay, now if you don't

recognise this as a crisis,

when would you recognise one?

I remember thinking of gnome

chom ski, Michael more, Howard

sin and a few others would find

a way of explaining this away.

I wasn't prepared to tolerate

that. It is interesting,

because your memoir, you talk about mutating from

identity to another. Are you

trying to deal once and for all with your reasons for moving

away from the left? Yes, I suppose I

suppose I am. But I'm

to do it in such a way as not

to seem to follow or indeed to

follow at all, a script that I

think everyone knows in their

mine that's roughly speaking

people are sort of idealistic

left tease when they're young

and they become pawn offe and

compromised and cynical

I don't know how I look or

sound to other people or how I

seem on the page, but I think I

would have a fair chance of

beating that cliche,

Not a reactionary. I've never been any kind of conservative. You've written

for decades, I think you said

at least 1000 words a day for

many years, despatches,

articles, lectures, books, in

particular, books. Doesn't it give you

give you some comfort that your

thoughts and indeed some version

version of you is going exist after your death is imperishable. One of the most

sour reflections that I have

when I think that I'm 61 now

and I might not make 65, I

quite easily might not, one of

the bitter aspects of that is

well, I put in 60 years at the

coalface, I worked very hard,

in the last few years I've got

a fair amount of recognition

for it, and it rather more than

I expected, and I could have

looked forward to a few years

of cruising speed, relishing

that, enjoying, not ceasing to

work, not resting on

laurels, but saving it a bit.

I was getting ready for that as

a matter of fact and I was hit

right at the top of my form,

right in the middle of a

successful book tour. I'm not

going to get there. That does upset

upset me. The thought of

mortality, in other words, of

being outlived is fine when it

is your children, your books or your trees, but it doesn't

reconcile you to an early

death, no. It doesn't. Christopher Hitchens

not going gently

night. That's the program for

tonight. Have a great weekend.

We'll be back on Monday. Until

then, good night. Closed Captions by CSI

Yup. This is one slow toaster. Yes, siree, Bob. That's the thing about Lady Toast. Makes you wait. Gives you time to think. To cogitate. To pon...der. Is there a gun in this house? Here's me waiting for white toast and you waiting for brown toast. That's interesting, isn't it? It's a five-hour drive away from interesting. All I'm saying is there are basic... differences, similarities... That's it. We've officially run out of conversation. Only because you refused to keep the toast ball in the air. Look at us. Alone in this house, nothing to say, no kids any more, we've got nothing. Oop, we've got toast. Thank you. Come on. We always knew the kids would fly the nest eventually. I suppose so. It just makes me feel sad now they've gone. It shouldn't! They're learning to be independent, standing on their own two feet. I guess you're right. We should let them spread their wings. Exactly. They're making their own way in the world. We should be proud of them. Are these eggs still good? Is there any more washing powder? If we don't turn round, we can just pretend they're not there. Sorry, heavy night. Lost my flat keys. How do you work the dryer on this? You don't. Which reminds me...