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(generated from captions) And that's the news to this minute. The '7:30 Report' is next, in an hour. and there'll be a news update Thanks for your company. Goodnight. International. Captioning and Subtitling Captions by

that became a roar, Tonight - the ripple into their boards angry shareholders tearing over mega executive pay packets.

in Australia Do we think any businessman is worth $17 million a year? I don't think so. Who's listening at the top? to do that. I think we're prepared Let's finish it there. board meeting. We will deal with it at the next back to me. Walk from the door and walk the most glamorous job And the man with Spring Racing Carnival. at the Melbourne

than a lot of their husbands do, I probably know the models better because we're together all the time. This program is captioned live. Welcome to the program. real or perceived - Executive excess - among shareholders has always ignited passions on the the shop floor and today, the issue boiled over

at newspaper publisher Fairfax. A proposal to cut 55 jobs response from the staff. to boost revenue drew a fiery the $4.5 million golden handshake They raised questions about Fred Hilmer for former chief executive

for his replacement. and the $1.2 million sign-on bonus to voice their concerns Investors will get a chance

until its annual meeting next month. about salaries at Fairfax in the corporations law A new provision to vote on company pay structures. gives shareholders the opportunity And although it's non-binding, some discomfort where it hurts. the new mechanism is causing Emma Alberici reports. Finance editor

Shareholder meetings in the main

used to be polite affairs, a chance

for the board to talk up the

company's prospects. There was

rarely a question asked and

resolutions were passed without too

much fuss. For investors, it was

the once a year opportunity to

Mingwell management over a cup of

tea and nibblies. Now, are making tea and nibblies. Now, shareholders

are making a noise. From the Big tea and nibblies. Now, shareholders

Apple where an ex-pat Australian

company is hearing it but

to ignore hard questions about pay. company is hearing it but continuing

Like many companies with a very

strong dominant shareholder there's

always the risk that the rights of

minorities will be abused. To the

Apple Isle where Tasmania's biggest

company is also hearing grumblings

it off about pay but the board can't shrug

it off as easily. I think they will about pay but the board can't shrug

on this occasion institutional face a substantial protest vote from face a substantial protest vote

shareholders today because they

haven't got with the program.

The annual meeting of the Gunns

Group is often fiery and

controversial, but today the

Tasmanian logger had more than

greenies to contend with.

Shareholders armed with new rights

under corporate law, voiced their

anger at a comfy director

scheme. The longer they stay anger at a comfy director retirement scheme. The longer they stay on anger at a comfy director retirement

board, the fatter the payout. Most

companies on the Australian Stock

Exchange have now done away with

retirement benefits for non-executive directors, but Gunns

is sticking to its guns. I think we

have to listen to what other

people's views are and I think

prepared to do that and let's people's views are and I think we're

it there and that we will deal with prepared to do that and let's finish

it at the next board meeting.

You could have a situation You could have a situation where it at the next board meeting.

directors don't exercise their

ultimate sanction and walk from a

board if they're unhappy about the

direction of a board. So by having

a retirement plan in place, the

argument may be that it's a

potential pay-off to remain silent

or sort of follow the group-think

a specific issue confronting the or sort of follow the group-think on

board. Phillip Spathis heads board. Phillip Spathis heads up the a specific issue confronting the

Australian Council of

Investors which represents 34 super Australian Council of Superannuation

funds that together manage an

investment pool worth $110 billion.

They held the bulk of the 15

shares voted against the Gunns' They held the bulk of the 15 million

remuneration report. Not enough

a majority, but it sent a clear remuneration report. Not enough for

message nonetheless. The votes are

non-binding but anything more than

significant 20% against a motion is considered

significant enough to force a 20% against a motion is considered

change. I think they were taking it

very seriously and the majority of

companies have put quite a

reasonable effort into providing

appropriate disclosure, clarity and

explanation about the remuneration

arrangements and have gone to some

lengths to explain the link between

pay and performance. Despite the

fact that it's non-binding it does

send a

send a very strong message to fact that it's non-binding it does

who would be listening and it would send a very strong message to boards

be an embarrassment to have a

board-sponsored resolution put up

against which there's such a high

vote . The dominoes are falling all

over the big end of town. The

Australian Gas Light Company's ignited fury at Australian Gas Light Company's board

ignited fury at its AGM by Australian Gas Light Company's board

chief executive Greg Martin be ignited fury at its AGM by proposing

a long-term incentive plan that chief executive Greg Martin be given

awarded him bonus shares in the

company after just 12 months.

I don't understand how you can call

such a short-term offer a long-term

incentive scheme. When it comes to

executive pay shareholders are most

annoyed when the boss appears to be

they have rewarded for poor results, and when

they have no or a low performance rewarded for poor results, and when

hurdle to jump in order to receive

the so-called incentive-based part

of the package. But what's become

the biggest beef among shareholders

is the sheer number of zeros

attached to an individual's pay

slip. For the past three years,

Australia's corporate leaders have

seen their pay jump by more than

a year. That's about 10 times the seen their pay jump by more than 20%

rate of inflation. Macquarie Bank rate of inflation. Macquarie Bank a year. That's about 10 times the

is the country's most generous

employer by far. 52% of the

investment bank's revenue is given

back to the staff. Chief executive

Alan Moss last year received $18

million. $61 million is shared

between just five people in

management. When shareholders are

getting double their money in the

space of a year, surely the

executives the people who make that

happen deserve to be rewarded? executives the people who make that happen deserve to be rewarded?

Yes,but we have to ask ourselves

other questions. Do we think any

businessman in Australia is worth

$17 million a year? I don't think so. Lucky

so. Lucky for the Macquarie Bank

board their meeting this year came

three months before the legislation

required Australian companies to

required Australian companies to put their remuneration reports to a

vote. But for relative small fry

like the investor Property Group, vote. But for relative small fry like the investor Property Group,

like the investor Property Group, no such luck. Do you think it's important that shareholders get the

opportunity to vote about the

remuneration? I certainly do.

Investor Property Group owns and

manages a number of prominent real

estate sites in Australia's capital

cities. It used to be one of

Westpac's property trusts before it

was spun off. Among all the

gatherings so far this year, the

vote against their salary packages

has been the strongest, at vote against their salary packages has been the strongest, at 35%.

You see chairman say these

You see chairman say these long-term incentive scheme also align

shareholders and management

interests and they don't, because

shareholders have to take the down

side if the market goes down, but

the executives on these sorts of

plans ride only the upside.

plans ride only the upside. Chairman Ian Payne found it difficult to

justify the way his group rewards

its executives. On top of justify the way his group rewards its executives. On top of their

base pay, they're given loans with

which to buy shares in the company.

The loans are interest-free and

what's phone known as non-recourse.

In other words those lucky enough

In other words those lucky enough to get them never have to pay them

back. They'll get more financially

if the share price is worth more?

Absolutely, yes. But it's not as

though they could get negative?

Well no, they can't lose money on it. They can lose a potential Well no, they can't lose money on it. They can lose a potential

upside, which was the objective of

the whole scheme. So what are the

performance hurdles that have to be

reached before the employees get

these shares? Well they're not a

long-term incentive scheme in that

sense. I know there are current

models of long-term incentive

schemes that offer the potential

schemes that offer the potential for reward for out performance. Our

scheme is not

reward for out performance. Our scheme is not of that nature. I

think it's probably right that we

ought to be considering it in that

context and as I've indicated at

context and as I've indicated at the meeting we will take that on board

and have a look at what we might do.

Investor heard the message loud and

clear and yesterday packaging group

Amcor - already under fire for an

ACCC investigation on allegations

ACCC investigation on allegations of price fixing and collusion - backed

down on a lucrative options package for its new

down on a lucrative options package for its new chief executive Ken

Mackenzie. The company's biggest

investors had knocked on the door

and warned them of an otherwise

embarrassing backlash at the AGM.

Since July of this year there very

somewhere in the order of about 100

remuneration reports that we have

reviewed and I'd say about 20 to 25

remuneration reports let's say were

on our radar screen

remuneration reports let's say were on our radar screen as inadequate.

We have written to a number of

We have written to a number of those corporations and we've actually met

with a number of those corporations

to express to them our specific

concerns and in the main, we've had

some very positive sort of feedback

and responses. The real strength of

the new law in changing company

behaviour on pay will be revealed

next year in the number of annual

next year in the number of annual reports that actually reflect the

opposition to a salary arrangement

and change it. Emma Alberici with that report. Dr David Ho was a raw young medico in Los Angeles

when he treated his first AIDS victims in 1981. Of course, at that point, no-one knew the global devastation ahead. By 1996, Dr Ho was a medical hero -

'Time' magazine's Man of the Year - and in 2001 was awarded the US President's Medal for his seminal research into HIV/AIDS,

which paved the way for the most effective treatment in stalling the mortality of AIDS so far -

the so-called cocktail of retroviral drugs.

But despite this great leap forward in treatment, the drugs are still not available

to the great bulk of victims in developing countries. And Dr Ho's own birthplace, China, is just now facing up to its own looming massive tragedy after years of official denial.

David Ho now leads the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Centre in New York,

a world-renowned bio-medical research institute

and is here for consultations with Melbourne's Burnet Institute and I spoke with him there today. David

David Ho, what is the realistic

best-case scenario for the HIV-AIDS

epidemic globally within the next

decade? That's a very tough one,

because we see many signs that are

not very promising. It already

qualifies as the worst infectious

disease disaster to affect mankind,

but for all the advances that death

toll - 25 million so but for all the advances that death toll - 25 million so far - will

still explode further, won't it?

It's not just an epidemic in the

growth of those who will contract

HIV, but the chances are the actual

death toll will explode? Absolutely.

I think 25 million dead, 45

I think 25 million dead, 45 million living with a lethal disease if not

treated and the projection suggests

that the epidemic will likely

that the epidemic will likely exceed 100 million before the

that the epidemic will likely exceed 100 million before the end of the

decade. So the numbers are truly

frightening. China alone faces the

prospect of a dramatic spread of

HIV-AIDS from about a million

infected people now to somewhere

between 10 and 20 million in the

next five years. Why has it taken

China so long to learn from the

tragic lessons of Africa? People

have a tendency to forget history and, therefore,

have a tendency to forget history and, therefore, relive history and

and, therefore, relive history and I think China was slow to adapt the

right system. Not all that

different from many other countries,

India for example and perhaps most

refactory is South Africa. But I

must say that since early 2004 must say that since early 2004 China has

must say that since early 2004 China has changed its policies quite

dramatically for the better. It's

true, isn't it, that the vast bulk

of China still has no real

recognition of - or knowledge even

recognition of - or knowledge even - of HIV-AIDS? Yes,I think it's safe

to say in China for those infected

to say in China for those infected a huge majority of them would not

huge majority of them would not know that they're infected. And if you speak to

that they're infected. And if you speak to a common person on the

street in the city or in rural

areas, most would not know much

about HIV or AIDS and so the lack

about HIV or AIDS and so the lack of awareness is a huge problem. I know

that the practice of selling blood

commercially has been a significant

factor in the spread of HIV-AIDS.

But even allowing for that, to what

extent have the stigmas But even allowing for that, to what extent have the stigmas on drug

users and homosexuals been overcome

in China's fight against HIV-AIDS?

I think it still has a long way to

go. When I go to China to address

this problem I'm reminded of the

practices in the early 1980s in

America, the stigma and

discrimination are Ramzi Mohamed

pant. There's a discrimination are Ramzi Mohamed pant. There's a lot of

misunderstanding about this --

rampant. There's a lot of

misunderstanding about this disease.

Often people who are infected are

ostracised by friends and family,

very reminiscent of US in early

1980s and I suspect Australia

1980s and I suspect Australia during that period of time, as well.

You've been on the front-line very much

You've been on the front-line very much in the front-line in the hunt

to develop a vaccine against HIV

to develop a vaccine against HIV for at least a decade now. Why is it

taking so long to produce the goods?

It is obviously taking a long time

and we won't have a vaccine for the

foreseeable future. The

foreseeable future. The fundamental problem is posed by the virus.

problem is posed by the virus. Just to give you an example,

problem is posed by the virus. Just to give you an example, myself and

many others have worked hard at

trying to come up with an AIDS

vaccine since the mid 1980s, about

20 years. This effort is not

successful so far. SARS came along

in 2003, a few labs jumped on it

immediately and within six months

immediately and within six months to a year including our effort,

a year including our effort, protective vaccines were produced

that show virtually 100 protection

in monkey experiments. And the

vaccine's pretty much use the same

general strategies. So it's

general strategies. So it's telling us that there are fundamental

problems posed by HIV has to do

problems posed by HIV has to do with the virus' capacity to change and

mutilate, has to do with the fact that the virus

mutilate, has to do with the fact that the virus on the surface has a

shield. If you watch 'Star Trek'

and such science fiction movies you

know that certain things have this

shield around it to protect it.

shield around it to protect it. The virus has developed a couple of

virus has developed a couple of very clever strategies to shield itself

from the immune system,

from the immune system, particularly from antibiotics and that makes it

very hard for us to come up with a

vaccine that would induce the right

immune response that would neutralise the

immune response that would neutralise the virus. You

neutralise the virus. You personally began to see America's first AIDS

victims, HIV-AIDS victims way back

in 1981 I think. Well, I had just

finished my medical training and

finished my medical training and was ready to launch into research and

begin an academic career in 1981

when accidentally I saw a number of the

when accidentally I saw a number of the early cases in Los Angeles and

those cases were in gay men and

those cases were in gay men and they came in one after another with a

multitude of infections that

suggested the immune system was

wiped out. And that really

mystified all of us. It must

mystified all of us. It must stagger you looking back at how that

unfolded? I never at that point

predicted that this would turn into a

predicted that this would turn into a global pandemic. To then over

time witness the same happening in

other countries, particularly in

other countries, particularly in the land of my heritage in China, I see

that it took off in 1989 and you

know, spread rapidly and quietly in

the early 1990s is a tragedy when

there was already eight, nine years

of experience with this epidemic. there was already eight, nine years of experience with this epidemic.

But that same tragedy is being

repeated every day elsewhere.

Do you ever allow yourself to get

angry though when you see

foolishness or bureaucracy or

government putting its head in the

sand actually ending in so many

deaths? I like to think I'm a

deaths? I like to think I'm a fairly calm and tranquil surface.

Certainly on the surface trying to Certainly on the surface trying to be as professional as possible.

be as professional as possible. But yes, I would say that I have as

yes, I would say that I have as much anger as anybody out there. I'm

anger as anybody out there. I'm not the type who would be jumping up

the type who would be jumping up and down and screaming but I would

down and screaming but I would state my case and I have been angry with

some of the policies in the US in

the early 1980s that let this

epidemic go from a handful of

the early 1980s that let this epidemic go from a handful of cases

to a million Americans infected.

Almost complete silence from the

White House during that period. I

was angered by what China did, for

example, in the 1990s and even say

three or four years ago by saying,

"This is not a disease that will affect us

"This is not a disease that will affect us like other parts of the

world. " I think that's also

foolishness. But I'm gratified

foolishness. But I'm gratified that that attitude has been modified. I

like to think that we and many

others have done our advocacy to

help change that way of thinking.

David Ho, thank you very much for

talking with us. Thank you very

talking with us. Thank you very much for having me. There are some followers of the Spring Racing Carnival in Melbourne

who see the actual racing as secondary to the main event. For them the emphasis is on carnival, and the epitome of the carnival is fashion. For the fashionista, the lead-up to the big race days is a gruelling round of parades and shows in search of that special look. It's no less arduous for those putting on the shows, where form on the catwalk is every bit as important as it is on the track, as Heather Ewart found.

Put your hand together. I think

Put your hand together. I think the models have done a sterling job

models have done a sterling job just showing you the collection right

here at your Colin's Place. Go

here at your Colin's Place. Go with the music. Go.

Get off. It's the time of year in

Melbourne for fashion designers and

milliners to sell their wares. In

the two-month lead-up to the Spring

Racing Carnival there have been

fashion parades galore and many of

them carry the stamp from head to

toe of just one man. I'm them carry the stamp from head to toe of just one man. I'm talking.

Chris Horne. I'm talking! Do you

think the audience has any idea

whatsoever of how much work goes

into all this? Nun whatsoever,

absolutely not. They just want to

see the perfect, the look, the

see the perfect, the look, the style and of course the image that's

portrayed but they certainly don't

think about what's going on at the back. The

think about what's going on at the back. The dresses, the models,

obviously the crew that's all

running around everywhere. Well

done, is it all hung beautifully?

It looks like the glamour job and

he's an old hand at it. In fashion

jargon it's called "putting the

story together for the parade.

story together for the parade. " That means choosing models,

That means choosing models, matching clothes, shoes, hats, bags make-up

clothes, shoes, hats, bags make-up - the list goes on.

clothes, shoes, hats, bags make-up - the list goes on. What do you want?

Girls in bikinis. After several

Girls in bikinis. After several days and nights of tagging along with

Chris Horne for these shows, we

think the more accurate job

description is very hard yakka. Do

you have to take care it seems of

every last detail? Yes,. For these

shows. I'm manic about these sorts of things. From top

shows. I'm manic about these sorts of things. From top to toe. When

of things. From top to toe. When I book the models I say it has to be

the red lipstick and red toenails

the red lipstick and red toenails if it's spring to summer. Once he's

scored an event to coordinate, the

starting.is right here. On this

starting.is right here. On this day he's planning for a big parade at

Flemington. He's a tough judge.

Walk from the door and walk

Walk from the door and walk straight back to me and walk into two half

turns. Models not only have to walk

the right way and agree to red lips and

the right way and agree to red lips and nails, they must also have a

certain facing carnival look about

them. It's carnival time after all

and we've seen too many stern-faced

models. It has to be, "Here wrm,

I'm feeling great, looking good.

Hope I've got the winnings and the

best tickets is and loving the

clothes I'm wearing. " They've got

to have happy faces? Happy faces. It's

to have happy faces? Happy faces. It's a happy time. Handbags are

It's a happy time. Handbags are next on the agenda. For the record,

on the agenda. For the record, less black and more colour is in this

season. Back at the studio, the

clothes and hats have just arrived

and so has the make-up artist.

Ta da! It's a great Flemington

piece. The much-loved reds are on

full display and decided upon. Yum.

full display and decided upon. Yum. Love it. The next morning

Yum. Love it. The next morning when the rest of us might be thinking

about breakfast, Chris Horne and

about breakfast, Chris Horne and his team are on their way out to

Flemington. Only another 68 bags to

go. There's just five hours left

till the parade begins and much

till the parade begins and much work to be done. After nearly 40 years

in the industry, Chris Horne leaves

nothing to chance. Even the in the industry, Chris Horne leaves nothing to chance. Even the

nothing to chance. Even the weather becomes a factor. Do you think it's

going to rain? Rain on my parade.

Once there, just the odd mini

disaster to deal with. Push.

disaster to deal with. Push. Always good in a suit, isn't it? Final

checks of his music selections and

chogiography are done. Walk on by.

And there are final rehearsals for

his models. By now, we've learned they're known as

his models. By now, we've learned they're known as "the gang". Many

have worked with him for years.

Chris Horne is fiercely loyal to

them, and protective. Very much so,

yeah. I probably know the models

better than a lot of their husbands

do, because we're together all the

time. They, in turn, know him well

enough he says, to ape a disability

he's been inflicted with since a

he's been inflicted with since a beesting paralysed his left side

since he was 2 years old. He's

walked with a limp ever since.

That's so long ago, and it's not a

handicap. Even though people when

we're doing the rehearsals I watch

them - the third eye at the back.

In what can be a cut-throat

In what can be a cut-throat industry Chris Horne is regarded as a

gentleman of the old school.

gentleman of the old school. Before every show he urgency his models to

be kind to one another. Listening, every show he urgency his models to be kind to one another. Listening,

listening to me. Right. Fast show

is a good show, a happy show is

is a good show, a happy show is even better. So do the whole bit and

away it all comes together. If

away it all comes together. If I've told you once, I've told you is,000

times. The gang are clearly fans of

this stickler for detail who also

likes to have fun. Well, he's

wonderful to work for. I've been

working with Chris for about 16 years.

working with Chris for about 16 years. He's very precise and he is

tough, but he always puts on a very

classy show. Is he bossy? He is

bossy. But in a lovely way. Loves

red, everything's got to be red.

Red toes have a look at the toes.

Melon. Red fingers and red lips.

We'd like Chris to sort of change.

We'd like to go a bit natural, but

he loves the red. And

We'd like to go a bit natural, but he loves the red. And yes, he

he loves the red. And yes, he always makes sure of the reds before the

gang hits the catwalk. Reds. Reds.

The parade at Flemington is a big

hit. Chris Horne and his models

hit. Chris Horne and his models get great feedback and that means

great feedback and that means plenty of sales for the client. That's the

nicest part when people come up and

say, "I want that outfit and can I have a look at it. say, "I want that outfit and can I have a look at it. " That's the

best bit. Is it a relief when it's

all over? Oh yes, see. Cheers.

When the parade goers hit the track

in their new outfits for Derby Day

and the Melbourne Cup, Chris Horne

won't be there. By then he's

exhausted and prefers to watch it

all at home on TV with friends and

all at home on TV with friends and a good bottle or two. And when all at home on TV with friends and a good bottle or two. And when

good bottle or two. And when you're watching it do you think, "Oh my

God, what's she wearing?"

God, what's she wearing?" Absolutely. "Where did she come

from?" Never fear, he'll be back

again next year to offer them fresh advice. Heather Ewart with that report. Time now for John Clarke and Bryan Dawe on Philip Ruddock's counter-terrorism laws. Mr Ruddock, thanks for your time. Words, Bryan, cannot express the joy I experience wherever I move among you.

You've taken some flack over this decision to bring in the terrorism legislation on Melbourne Cup Day? Bryan, the Parliament is sitting on Melbourne Cup Day. It cannot be a surprise that it will be engaging in governmental business while it is sitting. Yes. I think the criticism is that the Government appears to be trying to hurry through contentious legislation while the media and the Australian public's attention is elsewhere. I understand the nature of that criticism.

Well, what is your reaction to that criticism, Mr Ruddock? I don't agree with that criticism. I simply make the point, Bryan, that the Parliament is sitting on Tuesday. And then the next day the IR legislation's coming in? You bet it is, Bryan. You don't think there's anything wrong with this? There is nothing the matter with this whatever, Bryan. These laws, which are new, are not a secret. Well, no. What went wrong there? The bastard who is the Chief Minister in the ACT put the bloody thing up on his web site. And you weren't very pleased with that? I cannot tell you, Bryan, how pissed off I was that a person elected to public office in this country would willingly divulge what we were going to do to the public. Is that not the democratic way, though? It is a constitutional crisis of exactly the kind you describe, yes. Mr Ruddock, what can you do about it? We will be taking advice on this issue, as we do on many issues, Bryan. as we do on many issues, Bryan. What advice will you be taking? We will be taking advice of the kind we took when we put all those asylum seekers in prison. Why did you take legal advice in that instance? Because the Constitution, Bryan, provides that only judges may imprison people. What did that advice say, Mr Ruddock? I cannot reveal to you the precise nature of the advice. What did you do as a result of that advice? I got myself another portfolio. No, I meant what did the Government do? The Government argued that it was not putting people in prison.

What was the Government doing? The Government argued - successfully I might say - that it was putting people in administrative detention. What's the difference? Administrative detention, Bryan, is two words. Those problems are now over, aren't they? They are not over. The Immigration Minister spends an enormous amount of time and many millions of dollars dealing with problems devolving from those issues. What are those problems?

Problems relating to the appalling treatment of those people. Which people? The persons who were seeking asylum in this country. When? During the time they were in prison. Mr Ruddock, thanks for your time. Have a great Cup day. My Cup day, Bryan, will be significantly better than yours or my name's not Rumpelstiltskin. And that's the program for tonight and the week. Don't forget 'Stateline' at this time tomorrow.

We'll be back with the 7:30 Report, including our Cup preview,

on Monday. For now, goodnight.

Captions by Captioning and Subtitling International.

This program is not subtitled

This program is not subtitled

THEME MUSIC This week on Catalyst - the pill that could cure fear. It's a whole new way of combining medication and psychotherapy. The little equation that changed the world. And the genius behind it. And the feral animal that's headed for extinction. But should we save it?

Hello. I'm Karina Kelly. We all have fears we wish we could ignore. And for some of us, the fear becomes disabling.

When that happens, the best treatment is usually lengthy psychological counselling.

But Mark Horstman has found we could soon be taking a pill that promises to help us forget our fears. SCREAMS CAR HORNS BEEP There's one emotion so powerful, it governs our very survival - fear. If it spirals out of control, it's crippling. And right now, there's more than a million Australians struggling to cope with anxiety disorders and phobias.

Scientists are now questioning the best ways to conquer fear. Can we rely on tried and true therapies or could they use some extra help from drugs? UNNERVING MUSIC

Penny Field is one of the many whose childhood fear turned into a full-blown phobia. I'm absolutely convinced that spiders would want to get in my bed. And so that I'd have to lift all the pillows off and, um, check my quilt cover...

..and just feel comfortable in that knowing that there were no spiders. To understand a phobia like Penny's,

you have to travel deep inside the brain to an area behind your eyes and between your ears