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7.30 Report -

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This is really a moment of truth I think for all Australians.

Tonight on the 7.30 Report - disaster beckons as the nation's food bowl confronts the prospect of
running dry.

It doesn't get any worse. This is our worst nightmare come true.

It's your fault, the 7.30 Report. I was watching it last night, a real tear jerker.

And the man with the million dollar chequebook who came to the aid of the Rats of Tobruk.

These guys all gave their youth and some of them gave their life. I'm just giving money.

Give us a kiss! CC

Drastic plan announced for Murray-Darling crisis

Drastic plan announced for Murray-Darling crisis

Broadcast: 19/04/2007

Reporter: Paul Lockyer

The Prime Minister today announced a drastic proposal to cut off vital water to crops in the
drought stricken Murray-Darling Basin unless rains fall in the next six to eight weeks. The plan
would lead to immense economic and social fallout and marks the first time such drastic measures
have been contemplated.


KERRY O'BRIEN: But first the latest water crisis, and the Prime Minister's revelation of the
drastic proposal to cut off vital water to crops on tens of thousands of farms in the
drought-stricken Murray-Darling basin unless heavy rains fall in the next six to eight weeks.

Australian of the Year Tim Flannery has called it a national disaster plan, with worse to come. He
says the greenhouse nightmare has begun.

It's a plan that would lead to immense economic and social fallout. Never before have such extreme
measures been contemplated.

Paul Lockyer reports.

(Cicadas, music)

PAUL LOCKYER: The images hardly shock anymore. For years now farmers have watched the drought
extend across the inland, drying up one reliable water courses.

The dams that were meant to provide security for the future are now at record lows. And the
irrigation industries they support are now at risk.

MALE VOICE: It doesn't get any worse. This is our worst nightmare come true.

DR TIM FLANNERY, ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST: Well this is really a moment of truth I think, for all
Australians. We've come to a situation now where we see a major part of the country facing a real
water crisis.

JOHN HOWARD, PRIME MINISTER: We should all pray for rain because the situation for the farmers of
Australia is critical. And we must all hope and pray there is rain.

PAUL LOCKYER: And only a dramatic change in the weather can prevent the most extreme water cuts in
the history of the Murray-Darling basin.

JOHN HOWARD: If it doesn't rain in sufficient volume over the next six to eight weeks, there will
be no water allocations for irrigation purposes in the basin.

PAUL LOCKYER: Taking in most of south-eastern Australia, the Murray-Darling basin is the nation's
most important food producing region, heavily dependent upon irrigation.

BEN FARGHER, NATIONAL FARMERS FEDERATION: There's around 55,000 farmers that rely on the
Murray-Darling basin and it accounts for around 40 per cent of the gross value of agricultural
production in this country.

PAUL LOCKYER: But if all the irrigation water is cut off, Australia's food bowl faces huge
production losses.

DOUG MIELL, NSW IRRIGATORS COUNCIL: If we make the assumption that there is going to be no rain for
the season, so we get zero allocation, you are talking about the decimation, completely, of our
wine grapes, our horticultural industries, so stone fruits, citrus, almonds, olives. They will
simply not survive the rigours of a long, hot, dry summer.

PAUL LOCKYER: Bourke, the irrigation town in north-western New South Wales, provides the
frightening example of what other communities in the Murray-Darling basin may now confront.

The Darling River has failed to deliver the necessary water supplies to Bourke, leaving the cotton
fields barren and grapes withering on the vine.

The huge fruit growing areas of the Murray-Darling basin now face a similar threat.

BEN FARGHER: If we see the loss or death of crops like tree crops, fruit crops, stone fruit crops,
it will take those irrigators five, six, seven years, if at all, to rebound from that. And that's a
very serious situation, not only for those farmers, but also for the regional communities that rely
on those industries.

PAUL LOCKYER: There are deep concerns about the extra stress that farming communities will now have
to deal with. And if irrigation water is cut off, city consumers will soon notice the impact
through rising food prices.

DOUG MIELL: What you'll see when you go to the fresh food counter of any supermarket, a lot of that
comes out of the southern Murray-Darling basin. So that is obviously going to impact significantly
on the cost of living and the cost of those items for individuals.

(Boat motor)

PAUL LOCKYER: The water crisis in the Murray-Darling basin comes as a surprise to the Australian of
the Year, Dr Tim Flannery, the environmental scientist who has been warning of climate change for
more than a decade.

DR TIM FLANNERY: A number of scientists, including myself, have been warning for years now that
this is a serious issue, that we need to address climate change. We need to address the way we use
water in the over-allocations and our irrigation systems in order to avoid a crisis. Now what we're
seeing now with the Prime Minister's announcement is basically disaster planning.

PAUL LOCKYER: Irrigation cuts right across the Murray-Darling basin will only intensify the
political debate swirling around climate change and water use.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, OPPOSITION WATER SPOKESMAN: Labor shares the concern of the Prime Minister over
water supplies in the Murray-Darling basin. But we believe firmly that unless you have a plan to
address climate change, you won't address the water crisis.

PAUL LOCKYER: For their part, the irrigators argue that they've already taken big steps to increase
more efficient water use, but nothing could prepare them for what they now confront in the
Murray-Darling basin.

DOUG MIELL: If things have happened, obviously we've overlaid on top now one of the most horrific
droughts in living memory, low water allocations, we have got to a situation that I don't think few
people would have wished on anybody. We've now got to find the best way to come through it.

DR TIM FLANNERY: This month it's the Murray-Darling basin, next year it may be Brisbane, the year
after that somewhere else. This is a global water crisis having a particularly big impact on

KERRY O'BRIEN: Enormous ramifications as you can see.

Paul Lockyer with that report.

US uni murderer leaves video message

US uni murderer leaves video message

Broadcast: 19/04/2007

Reporter: Tracy Bowden

Chilling video and photos of the student who killed 32 people at Virginia Tech University, mailed
to NBC News before the massacre, have given insight into the mind of a mass murderer.


KERRY O'BRIEN: It's being described as a voice from the grave, chilling video and photos of Cho
Seung-Hui, the young student who killed 32 people at Virginia Tech on Tuesday before shooting

This disturbing insight into the mind of a mass murderer comes as police reveal they had contact
with Cho back in 2005 after complaints from female students.

The ABC's North America Correspondent, Tracy Bowden, reports from Washington.

CHO SEUNG-HUI: You had 100 billion chances to have avoided today but you decided to spill my blood.
You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option.

The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off.

TRACY BOWDEN: Just who Cho Seung-Hui is referring to is yet another question in this horrific case.
But we do now have a clearer picture of what the gunman was doing in between the first shootings in
the dormitory and the massacre in the engineering building.

NBC AMERICA NEWSREADER: Tonight, NBC News has received a multimedia manifesto from the gunman at
Virginia Tech, including his last recorded words.

CHO SEUNG-HUI: I didn't have to do this. I could've left. I could've fled.

TRACY BOWDEN: This chilling collection includes videos, a 23 page written document and a series of
photographs - 11 of them showing Cho aiming hand guns at the camera.

CHO SEUNG-HUI: You just loved crucifying me. You loved inducing cancer in my head, terrorising my
heart and ripping my soul all this time.

CLINT VAN ZANDT, FORMER FBI PROFILER: I don't think this, this shooter wanted to be captured. I
don't think he wanted to be interviewed and probed. He wanted to say it in his own words and in his
own way. I think that's very obvious. And with the full knowledge, I believe, that after he is dead
his words are going to be heard. I mean, I think this is his ultimate victory. This is the way he's
victimising, further victimising, all of us by reaching out from the grave and grabbing us.

TRACY BOWDEN: The label on the package reveals it was sent at 9.01am, after Cho Seung-Hui had
killed his first two victims and was preparing for his next deadly outing.

But because the gunman had the wrong zip code, the package didn't arrive until today.

CHO SEUNG-HUI: I may be nothing but a [expletive bleeped out]...

TRACY BOWDEN: On several occasions in the rambling video which is laced with profanities, Cho
attacks rich kids, perhaps his classmates.

CHO SEUNG-HUI: You had everything you wanted. Your Mercedes wasn't enough, you brats? Your golden
necklaces weren't enough, you snobs? Your trust fund wasn't enough? Your vodka and cognac weren't
enough? All your debaucheries weren't enough? Those weren't enough to fulfil your hedonistic needs?
You had everything.

TRACY BOWDEN: Eerily, in his written diatribe the gunman also refers to Eric and Dylan, whom he
calls martyrs. These are the names of the two students from Columbine High who shot dead 12
students and a teacher eight years ago before taking their own lives.

CHO SEUNG-HUI: You have vandalised my heart, raped my soul and torched my conscience. You thought
it was one pathetic void life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you I die like Jesus Christ, to
inspire generations of the weak and the defenceless people.


TRACY BOWDEN: It's unclear whether some of the video was recorded in between the two shooting
sprees, or whether there was someone else behind the camera. Meanwhile as more stories emerged of a
dark and troubled young man, police today revealed they had contact with Cho back in late 2005.

WENDELL FLINCHUM, VIRGINIA TECH POLICE CHIEF: In November of 2005, Cho had made contact with,
through phone calls and in person with a female student. The student notified and Virginia Tech
Police Department and officers responded. The student declined to press charges and referred to
Cho's contact with her as annoying.

TRACY BOWDEN: After a similar complaint by a second woman the following month, Cho was taken to a
psychiatric facility. And today, students and professors continued to describe the disturbing
behaviour of the young man and what seemed to have been multiple warning signs.

PAT THONG, FORMER HIGH SCHOOL CLASSMATE: He just seemed like an unstable person. You know, just
keeping to himself. I was questioned whether, if he hung out with any friend or anything, socially
active or anything like that. But I kind of figured he had it in him to do something like this.

KARAN GREWAL, COLLEGE FLATMATE: I tried saying hi to him, passing him by the hallways. But even
then, he never looked me in the eye, just walked by.

JOSEPH AUST, COLLEGE ROOMMATE: I was beside myself about the whole situation because I mean, I'm
sleeping in the same room as someone like this and it, it really gets to you, 'cause I mean at any
point in time I could have been his first victim.

TRACY BOWDEN: Investigators say the one positive that could come out of today's gruesome material
is a greater understanding of what exactly was going on in the mind of the killer.

CHO SEUNG-HUI: I didn't have to do this, I could have left. I could have fled. But no, I will no
longer run. If not for me, for my children or my brothers or sisters that you [expletive bleeped
out]. I did it for them.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Hard to know what to say. That report from Tracy Bowden.

Chaney retires after 12 years

Chaney retires after 12 years

Broadcast: 19/04/2007

Reporter: Kerry O'Brien

After 12 years in the job, former senior Liberal politician Fred Chaney has retired as deputy
chairman of the Native Title Tribunal this week. He talks to the ABC and reflects on the halting
progress and depressing failures in modern black-white relations.


KERRY O'BRIEN: After 12 years in the job, former senior Liberal politician Fred Chaney has retired
this week as deputy chairman of the Native Title Tribunal, the body set up to oversee and validate
land use agreements reached between traditional owners and other stakeholders around Australia
after the Mabo and Wick High Court rulings.

There are now nearly 300 such agreements, most flying from controversial changes to the Native
Title Tribunal by the Howard Government.

Earlier this year an academic study was released claiming that only a quarter of the agreements
delivered real benefit to Aboriginal communities, a claim now supported to a substantial degree by
Fred Chaney.

A former Aboriginal affairs minister in the Fraser Government, Mr Cheney has spent most of his life
involved in Aboriginal issues. He also served as co?chair of the Reconciliation Council for five

In the shadow of the 40th anniversary of the 1967 referendum that formally recognised all
Aborigines as Australian, Fred Chaney reflects on the halting progress and depressing failures in
modern black?white relations.

He spoke with me by satellite from Perth.

Fred Chaney, after 12 years at the Native Title Tribunal, what's worked and what hasn't in turning
land right claims into strong, positive outcomes for Aboriginal communities?

FRED CHANEY, NATIONAL NATIVE TITLE TRIBUNAL: Well, I think Native Title has certainly moved things
along and what it's done is bring Aboriginal people to the table in numbers and around the country
in a way that's never happened before. And at its best it's produced outcomes like the Ord Stage II
Agreement and the Argyll Diamond Mine Agreement. But I think overall the results are still way
below what we would have hoped.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Well, you said in a speech late last year titled 'Policy Incoherence in Aboriginal
Affairs' that, quote, "Governments deplore the lack of economic development on Aboriginal
development on land, yet firmly restrict Native Title outcomes to a bundle of non-economic usable
rights." And you've also criticised governments for being too narrowly legalistic and dealing with
land issues in isolation from related issues.

If you could rewrite the whole Native Title process now, how would you do it?

FRED CHANEY: Well I don't think I'd see the solution in rewriting an Act of Parliament. I think
really the solution lies in policy. When governments get it right and sometimes they do, as I think
the Western Australia did in the Ord Stage II negotiation, they produce an integrated outcome which
gives Aboriginal people a place in the society and in the future development of the region.

If you stick, however, to the Native Title Act and to the courts, you wind up with what governments
insist should be a basically unusable title except for traditional purposes.

So why I used and word 'incoherence' is on the one hand governments are saying Aboriginal people
must get with it and become part of the economy and get jobs and start businesses and own their
houses and so on, but they pursue a Native Title system that pushes Aboriginal people back to their
original cultural roots and demands a direct link in their societies to the pre?settlement.

Now, I think that is a very confusing set of messages to be passing onto Aboriginal people and I
don't think it produces the best outcomes.

KERRY O'BRIEN: So you wouldn't have been surprised by the research from Griffith University
Professor Ciaran O'Faircheallaigh, which found that while 25 per cent of Indigenous land use
agreements delivered good outcomes for Aborigines nearly half delivered poor outcomes?

FRED CHANEY: Well, yes and I mean I was associated with one of the agreements that's regarded as
one of the best agreements - the Argyll Diamond Mine. And I pay tribute to the company and to the
Aboriginal people that negotiated that. But I think what that tells you is that it's a, it's a long
and arduous process to get it right. You have to get the right people at the table, you have to
make sure they're equipped for a negotiation. You have to spend a lot of time working out, what are
the overall outcomes you want to achieve? Employment, training, education and all those sorts of
things, as well as cultural adherence, which those people strongly wanted. That takes time. You've
got to leave behind a structure that will work for them.

Now, just north of that agreement you've got the Ord Stage II Agreement where, once again, you had
the careful working out of a whole land use arrangement for the region. Where did Aboriginal people
fit? They've got a variety of tenures, living areas, they got interest in the conservation estate,
traditional rights over pastoral land. The important thing is that they were built into the future
of that area and they've got usable titles. And they were left with an organisation that enabled
them to engage. Now that takes time, it takes money, but it's a lot better than having the
continuing mess we've got in much of Australia. And I think that is an investment that we need and
it's an investment that has to be made at the political level.

KERRY O'BRIEN: The 40th anniversary of the 1967 referendum is looming, which will spark yet another
round on reflection on why so little progress has been made in seriously improving all those
markers of deprivation in most Aboriginal communities in Australia.

You've been engaged by this issue for a very long time now, right through your political career.
Why have successive governments failed so comprehensively to turn the story of Aboriginal
deprivation around?

FRED CHANEY: Well, I know there have been lots of well?meaning efforts because I've been watching
them for close to 50 years, Kerry, and I've been part of them myself. And I think all of us are
disappointed with the outcomes we've achieved.

But I think we've learned a lot from that. And one of the things I think we should have learned by
now is that you can't solve these things by centralised bureaucrat direction. You can only educate
children in a school at the place where they live. You can only give people jobs or get people into
employment person by person. And I think my own view now is that the lesson we've learned is that
you need local, locally based action, local resourcing, local control to really make changes.

The sort of work that Dick Estens has been doing with the Aboriginal Employment Strategy, the sort
of people that the football academy, the Clontarf Football Academy does, the sort of work in Polly
Farmer that we do to get kids through school. This is the sort of thing that I think is going to
make the long?term change. But I think governments persist in thinking that you can direct from
Canberra, you can direct from Perth or Sydney or Melbourne, that you can have programs that run out
into communities that aren't owned by those communities that aren't locally controlled and managed,
and I think surely that is a thing we should know doesn't work.

So, I'm very much in favour of a model which I suppose builds local control in communities as the
best of those Native Title agreements do, as has been done in the Argyll Diamond Mine Agreement, as
is being done in Kununurra. Not central bureaucracies trying to run things in Aboriginal
communities. That doesn't work.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Why do you think that message hasn't got through? What is the fundamental failure in
the process that that message, if it's a wise message, doesn't sink in to bureaucratic leadership
and political leadership?

FRED CHANEY: Well, I think some of those messages have sunk in and they've made some movements in
recent years. For example the COAG trials and the setting up of ICCs, Indigenous Coordination
Centres in local areas. They are all things which are moving towards the direction of understanding
that you have to do things locally. But the trouble is...

KERRY O'BRIEN: At a somewhat glacial pace?

FRED CHANEY: Well they're, they're locked into systems which require central accounting, which
require centralised rules and regulations. They're not locally tailored. The great thing about
working with a mining company in an Aboriginal community is that the mining company has the
flexibility to manage towards outcomes locally with that community.

The great thing about the education projects in which I'm involved is that we can manage locally
for the outcomes that we want to achieve locally. Once you try and do it by remote control, through
visiting ministers visiting bureaucrats fly in, fly out ? forget it.

KERRY O'BRIEN: In dealing with Aboriginal issues over the decades what has been your lowest moment,
if there has been one, the moment that might have shocked you the most or depressed you the most?

FRED CHANEY: Well, I think some of the circumstances of children that I've seen have been very
shocking. But I suppose the high?profile low points if I can say, would be Nookumba where there was
that terrible confrontation in '79 and '80. And one of the great things is if you live long enough
you do see change and on Friday week at Nookumba, the Federal Court will hand down a consent to
termination of exclusive possession of Native Title of Nookumba. And so I think, by hanging around
long enough, some of the really low points, Kerry, I've seen turn into high points.

KERRY O'BRIEN: I was about to ask you to nominate a high point and I suppose that's one of them.
You've answered it.

FRED CHANEY: Yeah, well that combines the two actually.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Fred Chaney, thanks for talking to us.

FRED CHANEY: Thanks Kerry.

New Tolkien book goes on sale

New Tolkien book goes on sale

Broadcast: 19/04/2007

Reporter: Razia Iqbal from the BBC program Newsnight

In an extraordinary literary event, a new JRR Tolkien book has been released, years after the death
of the author. Best known for The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien's new offering was edited from his
notes by his son, Christopher.


KERRY O'BRIEN: The smash hit Peter Jackson Hollywood version of the 'Lord of the Rings' trilogy
helped make the work of the English author, J.R.R. Tolkien, accessible to a whole new generation of
readers around the world.

It's now been followed by a quite extraordinary literary event - a new Tolkien book. Many years
after the author's death, edited from his notes by his son Christopher. The BBC's Newsnight program
was given access to the book and an interview with Tolkien himself, which has never been broadcast

Razia Iqbal, from the BBC's Newsnight reports.

(Miranda Otto singing. Taken from 'The Two Towers' (2002) New Line Cinema)

RAZIA IQBAL: A plaintive lament from the epic movie trilogy 'The Lord of The Rings'.

There is though little to lament about the Tolkien brand. A staggering 150 million people have
bought the books. Fifty million of those since the film trilogy wowed fans and critics alike.

J.R.R. Tolkien's classic work of fantasy started out in his mind as a book written for his

PROFESSOR J.R.R. TOLKIEN, AUTHOR: I read it to my children. I read to the two elder ones who took a
kindly and, on the whole, favourable an interest in it. But they criticised very severely and first
opened my eyes to the whole situation which led to my essay on fairy stories, criticised very
severely all those things in which my, owing to bad models, I though was suitable to put into a
children's story. They hated asides, anything like, 'so now I've told you enough.' They loathed
anything that made it sound as if you were talking to a, an actual audience.

RAZIA IQBAL: The audience for Tolkien's books remains voracious and committed. And now some 50
years after the publication of the 'Lord of the Rings' the Tolkien literary estate have published a
new work, 'The Children of Hurin'.

Tolkien began writing it in the trenches during the First World War. Parts of it, though, have been
seen before.

ADAM TOLKIEN, GRANDSON: 'The Children of Hurin' hasn't been published as a stand alone tale and
it's been published in works and also a long time ago before, among other things, before the films
made Tolkien doubly, triply popular. And it's published in what are scholarly works and you can
read the stories just for the stories, skipping the notes, but you're not going to get a simple
start-to-finish story. And they're published with the name of very exact literary analysis, which
means that if the story, it's one version of the story and if it's interrupted it stops there
whereas 'The Children of Hurin', the new book, is worked together from all the author's words. But
to become a stand alone story that can be read as such.

(Music from the film)

RAZIA IQBAL: However, fans of Bilbo Baggins may be in for a bit of a shock with 'The Children of
Hurin'. It is a dark tale of incest and betrayal and one in which most of the protagonists kill
themselves or each other.

ADAM TOLKIEN: I think a bit too much is being made of the incest. That is, it's part of the tragedy
of the story - that this brother and sister don't know that they're brother and sister. But it's,
it is definitely a tragic tale.

But I don't know, I don't know what people will make of it. It takes place in a part of Middle
Earth that doesn't exist anymore when 'Lord of the Rings' takes place, but it's very much Middle
Earth, it's very much the same world. And it is, it's a more serious tale in a sense than the 'Lord
of the Rings'.

RAZIA IQBAL: While 'The Hobbit' and the 'Lord of the Rings' remain the most popular of Tolkien's
books, his more obscure works dealing with the ancient history of elves and men were to him all
part of the same mythic tapestry.

PROFESSOR J.R.R. TOLKIEN: There are in existence a very large collection, now a collection
impractically written, but legends about the, the world of the past, particularly after the Exalios
came back and conducted their war against the devil in the north-western part of this, this world
we live in. And the connection of the, of the men who joined in with them.

ADAM TOLKIEN: We hope it will strike a chord in people who've discovered the stories of Middle
Earth with the 'Lord of the Rings', but who don't really know about the other works or who've been,
found them too difficult. And we, we think that this tale in particular, which was one tale that
the author did work at enough so that we could produce a full length story, it's a beautiful tale
in itself. And it may or may not strike a chord. People may think it doesn't have enough Hobbits in
it, because there aren't any.

(Music from the film)

KERRY O'BRIEN: And that interview with Tolkien was conducted just five years before his death.

Razia Iqbal of the BBC with that report.

Tobruk House story prompts generous act

Tobruk House story prompts generous act

Broadcast: 19/04/2007

Reporter: Lisa Whitehead

Last night, The 7.30 Report brought you the story of Tobruk House in Melbourne. Now aged in their
80s and 90s, the remaining Rats of Tobruk could no longer afford the upkeep on their meeting place
so they decided to auction it and donate the proceeds to child cancer research. One viewer was so
moved by the World War II veterans' story that he took out his cheque book at the auction today to
make a stunning bid, followed by a further act of great generosity.


KERRY O'BRIEN: We brought you the story last night on the sale of Tobruk House, the home of the
Victorian contingent of the Rats of Tobruk.

After the war, the hall was a second home for the 1800 rats who'd returned to Melbourne. Now in
their eighties and nineties, their association has dwindled to just 80 members and they can no
longer afford the upkeep of the building.

Many viewers were moved by the story, one to the extent that he took out his chequebook at today's
auction to make a stunning bid followed by a further act of great generosity.

Lisa Whitehead has the update.

BILL SHELTON, AUCTIONEER: Who'll give me a fair and reasonable start for 44 Victoria Avenue Albert
Park? Might be nice to start at a million.

LISA WHITEHEAD: There were nervous moments today as auctioneer Bill Shelton opened the bidding on
Tobruk House.

BILL SHELTON: 1 million, 650. 1 million 660.

LISA WHITEHEAD: Within minutes the price had already edged higher than the old boys had dared hope

MURRAY BERLES, RAT OF TOBRUK: When he says, 'going once, going twice, going third time, sold to
that party there', there's going to be a big lump of lead there. Not a heart.

BILL SHELTON: All done, all silence. Sold for $1,735,000.


LISA WHITEHEAD: The man with the knockout bid, trucking magnate Bill Gibbins, hadn't inspected the
property before today's auction, nor did he have any intention of buying it until last night.

BILL GIBBINS, BUYER: It's your fault, the 7.30 Report, isn't it? I was watching it last night, a
real tear jerker, and I thought oh, I should do something about that.

BILL SHELTON: It's so fantastic, he rang me this morning, and he said, "Look, I was so moved by the
7.30 Report, I really want to buy the building if I can."

BILL GIBBINS: These guys all gave their youth and some of them gave their life, you know? I'm just
giving money. So you know, pales into insignificance, doesn't it?


LISA WHITEHEAD: The Rats of Tobruk plan to donate the money to the Royal Children's Hospital for
cancer research.

But the generosity doesn't stop there. Bill Gibbins has no plans for the hall, except that it
remain as the second home of the Rats of Tobruk.

MALE VOICE: Give us a kiss!


LISA WHITEHEAD: The new owner will be back at Tobruk House on Anzac Day to share a beer with the
old boys and a cuppa with the lady in charge of the tea trolley, Edna Bridgman, who couldn't bring
herself to come to today's auction.

EDNA BRIDGMAN: I don't think I could come down here and watch it. No, I'm not, not quite up to

BILL GIBBINS: Edna, you can start up again Monday, baby. Set your alarm, you're job's not over.
You're not on the scrap heap yet.

KERRY O'BRIEN: We've had some great outcomes to stories occasionally over the years. This is one of
the best, as I'm sure the Rats would agree.

Lisa Whitehead with that report.

Clarke and Dawe: Rudd's questions

Clarke and Dawe: Rudd's questions

Broadcast: 19/04/2007

Reporter: John Clarke and Bryan Dawe

John Clarke and Bryan Dawe and a rather voluble politician.


KERRY O'BRIEN: And now John Clarke and Brian Dawe, and a rather voluble politician.

BRIAN DAWE: Mr Rudd, thanks for your time.

JOHN CLARKE: It's very good to be with you Brian. And thank you for the invitation.

BRIAN DAWE: Mr Rudd, you've announced your Industrial Relations policy this week.

JOHN CLARKE: Yes we have Brian. Do I think that we're going to solve all of the problems in one go
and do I think that this is going to be popular with everybody Brian? No I don't. But do I think
it's a better, fairer and more equitable solution for all Australians, Brian? Yes I most assuredly

BRIAN DAWE: Good, Mr Rudd...

JOHN CLARKE: Do I think industrial relations and workplace relations are important? Of the utmost
importance in this country? Is that my belief?


JOHN CLARKE: Yes Bryan, it most assuredly is. Do I, therefore, assume that I am simply some Robin
Hood who is going to solve the problems of the world at a stroke? Brian, I'll be brutally honest
with you, I'm don't...

BRIAN DAWE: No, you're right...

JOHN CLARKE: That is not my view. But am I going to give it a go Brian?

BRIAN DAWE: Yeah. Mr Rudd...

JOHN CLARKE: Am I going to give it a red?hot go?


JOHN CLARKE: Yes Bryan. That is my belief and commitment and that is the policy we'll be taking to
the Australian people.

BRIAN DAWE: Yes, Mr Rudd. If...

JOHN CLARKE: Bryan, we've dropped the ball in this country. We have seriously dropped the ball in
this country.

(Brian Dawe sighs loudly)

We've dropped the ball on global warming. We've dropped the ball on this absolutely ill?advised and
doomed war in Iraq. Do I think it's going to be easy to get out of these things, Brian? I don't.

BRIAN DAWE: Probably not, no.

JOHN CLARKE: But do I think the Australian public deserve a better go than they're gunna get from
this bereft, idea-less Howard Government? Yes, I most assuredly do.

BRIAN DAWE: So, so Mr Rudd...

JOHN CLARKE: Let me ask you a question Brian. Are we in this country thoroughly sick of being told
what the agenda is and told what to think? Or Brian, do we take the view that we're not children
and we don't need to be treated like children?

BRIAN DAWE: Yes, yes we do. But this is not what I asked you, Mr Rudd.

JOHN CLARKE: Am I interested in what you asked me Brian? Do I look as if I'm interested in what you
asked me? Do I look as if I'm yearning for further information about what you actually asked me?

BRIAN DAWE: Mr Rudd, Mr Rudd...

JOHN CLARKE: Brian, if I were, I'd be answering that question.

BRIAN DAWE: Mr Rudd...

JOHN CLARKE: Am I doing that?


JOHN CLARKE: No I'm not.

BRIAN DAWE: No, OK. But Mr Rudd, this is not the question I asked you. I wanted to ask you about

JOHN CLARKE: Sure! OK. Are we leaving some of the AWAs in place for a very limited period? Yes we

BRIAN DAWE: What can I do?

JOHN CLARKE: But do we like AWAs, Brian? Do we think they're fair? No we most certainly do not. If
we don't think they're fair, why are we leaving some of them in place, Brian, for a limited period?

BRIAN DAWE: Well, that's a good question.

JOHN CLARKE: That's a good question Brian.

BRIAN DAWE: See I've got my (inaudible) track...

JOHN CLARKE: That's a very good question. I congratulate you on the question. Am I going to answer
the question? No, I'm not. Is it the right question? No it isn't.


JOHN CLARKE: What is the right question? Brian, that is a very good question. That's an even better

BRIAN DAWE: I can't do anything.

JOHN CLARKE: Is this, for example, am I just a conceited twerp you might ask.

BRIAN DAWE: Yes. Well...

JOHN CLARKE: That, Brian, that question is beneath you. You're better than that Brian. These are
very, very good questions.

BRIAN DAWE: He won't shut up.

JOHN CLARKE: There's a very good question. Should I shut up now? Perhaps I should. I what direction
should I shut?


JOHN CLARKE: Correct! What's the capital of Norway?


JOHN CLARKE: You're very good Brian.

BRIAN DAWE: I've got another one.

JOHN CLARKE: You're very, very good.

BRIAN DAWE: Mr Rudd, thanks for your time. [Aside] Yeah, I will.

Thanks for your time.

JOHN CLARKE: Oh thank you Brian. I love doing this. There's nothing I like more than an interview.
An exchange of ideas.

KERRY O'BRIEN: A short lesson in how to render an interviewer redundant. And that's the program for
the night and for the week.

tonight and the week. Don't forget 'Stateline' at this time tomorrow. We'll be back with the 7.30
Report on Monday. For now, goodnight.