Note: Where available, the PDF/Word icon below is provided to view the complete and fully formatted document
Disclaimer: The Parliamentary Library does not warrant the accuracy of closed captions. These are derived automatically from the broadcaster's signal.
Stateline (NSW) -

View in ParlView

(generated from captions) involved in a search for at

least five people after a car

was swept off the road on the

NSW Central Coast. Earlier, the

ambulance service suggested up

to nine people had been

involved in the incident. Two

adults an two children were in

the car. A bystander who jumped

in to save them is also

still missing in the Hunter missing. Two elderly people are

Valley. That is ABC News for

this Friday. ABC Radio and online will have regular

updates on the weather and

there will be a full wrap-up in

Lateline. Stay with us now for

Stateline with Quentin

Dempster. Goodnight.

Closed Captions by CSI

CC This week - what climate

change? Anvil Hill gets the

go-ahead with many more coal

mines to come. Cardinel Pell

versus the secular state. It is

a serious moral matter.

There's been a little bit of

misinformation going

around. And bring back the biff

- footy nostalgia at the Sydney

Film Festival.

Welcome to Stateline NSW. I'm

Quentin Dempster. What climate

change? Planning Minister Frank

Sartor's decision yesterday to

approve the massive open cut

Anvil Hill Coal Mine in the

Hunter Valley has ignited the

fires of protest. Anvil Hill

and the Abel underground coal

mine north west of Newcastle,

also approved yesterday,

represent a $320 million

investment boost to the state

economy and over the life of

the mines, $13 billion in

export and domestic coal sales.

And there are a dozen or so

other mining applications in

the planning pipeline to meet

seemingly insatiable world

demand. It's good news for the

economy, investors and

commodity exports. But outraged

locals and the environment

movement are threatening

blockades and a campaign of

civil disco beadens. Apart from

local factors like the impact

on the wine and horse breeding

industries, the river systems

and regional amenity, the

overriding concern is the

long-term contribution burning

all this coal will make to

global warming. I recorded

this interview with Frank

Sartor, the minister for

planning, a short time ago.

Frank Sartor, welcome back to

Stateline. You say you are

powerless as a mere state

Planning Minister assessing

these mines, but you could have

postponed these decisions

couldn't you until there was a

whole of Government approach on

carbon trading and climate

change? Well, in theory you

could do anything, but if you

are listening to John Howard,

you are talking about no carbon

trading scheme until 2012. I

mean, are you going to tell

companies that because they

happen to come in with their

applications now that you can't

deal with them? It took us, as

it was, about a year to deal

with the project. It was

difficult. But the simple fact

is you can't just look at who

supplies the coal. You have to

look at whether the same amount

of coal will be burnt globally.

Had that mine been refused or

not allowed to go ahead, the

same amount of coal still would

have got burnt globally. In

other words... We'll get to

that shortly. I'm thinking

about your credibility on the

question of climate change. You

have Phil Koperberg, the

minister for climate change

humiliated by the decision. You

are going around, as his

Government has signed off on

the big coal export mines. Hang

on, you can't just select some

companies and pick on

them. That's what I'm saying, a

whole of Government

approach... You can't make some

companies carry the

burden... If there is another

dozen applications before you,

approval... Yes, but the waiting for your

correct way to deal with it is

a carbon trading system which

will deal with all coal

producers equally. Where does

this leave Kevin Rudd and their

climate change credentials? Not

at all. They have not said they

will stop coal mining. They

will promote clean coal. You

have to look at the use of coal

and how it is used. You can't

stop supply from unmine. Who

leads? Who ever takes the

lead? NSW has taken the lead.

Since 2000, we introduced the

first trading scheme in

Australia. We've introduced

renewable energy targets, which

the Premier expanded and

extended recently. We

introduced basics, within ten

years, we'll be saving 700,000

tonnes of CO2 a year. There are

a lot of people coming to terms

with the Anvil Hill Coal Mine

and Abel decision. Let's hear

an apology from you to all

those out there concerned about

the planet. As Energy Minister

I fought hard to do things

about climate change. I

introduced a water energy

savings programme. Let's hear

you say, "Sorry, I had no

choice." I will come to that.

I've been a great advocate for

measures of water

sustainability and reducings

greenhouse gas emmissions. I

pushed basics. I pushed it in

the current Government. I

introduced water and energy

saving plans for council. On

the biggest arguably symbolic

decision you have to make as

Planning Minister, you have

signed off on these without any

- you've got countries, we'll

get to that on the local

elements, but without any

acknowledgement of the

greenhouse gas impacts. The

report spends many pages

discussing the impact. How much

will be pumped out from Anvil

Hill? It's thermal coal. When

it goes to the power stations

it will go to in Australia or

overseas, you are talking about

12 million tonnes of CO2 in

that year. Half what the Greens

said F Anvil Hill was stopped

and we said no, the same amount

of greenhouse gas would still

be pumped out. There is no net

environmental benefit. You are

asking me to give NSW an

economic whack, punish them

economically by saying no when

there is no genuine

environmental benefit. So

future generations have to make

admittedly the hardest of

decisions? No, what we have to

do nationally and globally is

to make sure we price carbon

properly so less people use

carbon and then these mines

become irrelevant. That's how

to attack it. So all mines

stand together facing the same

financial outlook. We can't

pick one mine off. Look, it's

difficult, I understand, I

understand that people care

about climate change and so do

I, but it would have been

dishonest of me to refuse the

mine on the basis of its net

impact on global warming

because it makes no

difference. Minister, let's

talk about the local issues for

the Hunter Valley viewers. You

have a lot of people into your

office recently and you got

them to crunch this in front of

you. What the cumulative impact

of all these mines, not just

Abel and Anvil Hill, would be

the destruction of the Hunter

Valley, would it not,

particularly its viticulture

and equine industries? Look,

each mine comes in. They apply

and they are assessed

independently and

individually. You don't have a

regional assessment of it, or a

total impact? When we do an assessment of an individual

mine it adds to the previous

mines and that is taken into

account. Implicitly you look at

impacts. This mine was a

difficult mine. It's a huge

resource, valued in terms of

selling price at about $9.6

billion by the time the mine is

fully developed. We did,

however, go through all the

individual issues. We tried to

address them and I believe that

we've probably adopted with

this mine the tightest controls

of any mine, any open cut mine

in the Australia, possibly in

the world. We've addressed each

single issue.... Horse breeders

and the wine industry do not

want your Government to proceed

with all these mines. Can I

say, I think they are more

concerned - a lot of the particularly people were concerned about the mine

because they are worried that

mines will keep evolving up the

Hunter. I don't think the mine,

per se, affects the stud

industry that much. The nearest

stud farm is 4km. Some other

agricultural uses are closer. I

think the concerns are other

proposals further up the

Hunter, which have not yet come

to me and aren't being

assessed. The issue about the

Hunter and the succession of

land uses and legitimate

industries and the stud farm

and horse industries, are

important as are the vinerrons.

That is a legitimate issue that

remains unresolved. At the

moment you don't think they are

impacted by the decision you've

made to date? I think it is a

symbolic decision, but I don't

think the real impact of the

mine are real on their industry. The general question

of the upper Hunter, and I'm

looking at ways of addressing

this more broadly, of how

rebalance the land uses. I've

toured and met a lot of these

people. Frank Sartor, thank

you. Thank you. Now to cardinal

sin. Bearpit MPs voted 65-26 to

allow therapeutic cloning for

medical research. Over the

objections of both the Catholic

and Anglican Archbishops of

Sydney, George Pell and Peter Jensen. Cardinal Pell indicate

there'd would be consequences

for Catholic MPs if they

exercised their condition vote

for immoral legislation. What

the consequences will be is not

clear. The names of all MPs who

voted for or against the bill

are now listed in hansard. Some

MPs have taken Cardinel Pell's

remarks as coercion and have

complained in the privileges

committee. Although Archbishop

Jensen has distanced himself

from Cardinel Pell's threat, he

has described the cloning as

unacceptable, akin to human experiments conducted by Nazi

scientists in Hitler's Germany.

What started as routine

complimently state legislation

approved by the nation's most

prominent ethicist for an

Australia-wide approach to stem

cell research quickly

degenerated into a clash

between the two churchmen and

the secular state. Cloning is

not quite the same as

abortion. And the legislation

for such a thing as cloning is

different from actually

performing cloning. But, it is

a serious moral matter.

Catholic politicians who vote

for this legislation must

realise that they are voting

and they have consequences for

their place in the life of the

church. What consequences the

reporters wanted to snow? We

would cross that bridge when we

came to it replied Cardinel

Pell, Archbishop of Sydney.

Cardinel Pell's intervention in

the parliamentary debate on

therapeutic cloning for stem

cell medical research was

counter productive. Instead of

being taken as helpful guidance

in the examination of their

consciences, many Catholic MPs

respectfully and some not so

respectfully, defied the

cardinal's presumed moral

authority. Significantly

leading the pack was the

Catholic Premier of NSW, Morris

Iemma. Mr Speaker, I rise to

support this bill and do so

with profound respect for the

convictions and beliefs of

everyone in this chamber. I

know many find the principals

of this legislation unsettling

for deep and sincerely held

religious and ethical reasons.

Coming from a Catholic

background, I understand those

reasons and are somewhat

sympathetic to them myself. But

after long and searching

thought, I am convinced this is

no time to stand in the way of

science. Among the 26 who

voted against the bill was

Andrew Stoner, leader of the

Nationals with a distressing

personal story. My mother,

June, was the victim of an

incurable fatal illness, motor

neurone disease. She contracted

this insidious, merciless

killer of a disease in the late

1970s and began a progressive

downward spiral in terms of her

physical function and quality

of life. She was in the prime

of her life. I'm passionate

about finding a cure for motor

neurone disease and some hope

is offered by stem cell

research. However, in all

conscience, I cannot support

this bill and I will explain to

the house why. Simply, the

provisions of this bill, which include so-called they are

Putin cloning and the creation

of hybrid embryos and the

redefinition of the term of

embryo are beyond the bounds of

acceptable ethics. The bill

opens up a minefield of ethical

dilemmas and creates a range of

possible scenarios which may

one day come back to haunt us

as a society. Many MPs seized

the opportunity to express

their strong objection to what

they said was Cardinel Pell's

standover tactics. I have to

say that I consider Cardinel

Pell's attempts to engage in

emotional blackmail with

members of this Parliament,

good members who are genuinely

wrestling with the moral issues

goes beyond the pale. The

hypocrisy is well placed. No

Government would seek to

influence church teachings when

provided taxpayers funds for

refushicment of churches and

Catholic schools. What is

Cardinel Pell driving at? He's

being advised by Bishop Anthony

Fisher, a church expert on life

issues. Cardinel Pell says the

church already supports adult

stem cell research, but draws

the line at research involving

human embryos. I suspect the

public is unaware of the fact

that this legislation would

allow the cloning of human

embryos with only one genetic

parent, mixing the genetic

material of more than two

persons so that a human embryo

could have three genetic

parents. There's already been

court cases in Canada over

this. Fertilising immature eggs

taken from aborted girls with

adult male sperm, which makes a

human embryo with an aborted

baby girl as the mother.

Verity Firth, the Minister For Women, Science and Medical

Research, has carriage of the

cloning legislation. I think

one of the problems that we've

had in the debate is there is a

bit of misinformation going

around about what the bill does

and does not allow. The thing

to understand about the bill is

that like the Federal act, it

has been - it is a careful

compromise created over months

and months of careful study,

balancing the needs of science

and the ability for science to

provide solutions, cures to

terrible diseases and of course

the ethical needs and moral

guidelines we want our

scientific research to be

guided by. Creating human

animal hybrids as a test for

sperm quality, which makes an

embryo with a human and animal

genetic parent. Now I think

these possibilities are quite

grotesque. In terms of the

animal hybrids that he talks

about, again, they are not

created in the bill. We do

allow sperm to be tested on

animal eggs for up to 48 eggs.

Only to test sperm and test its

quality. Then at 48 hours it

ceases. We do that for a good

reason - we don't want to use

human eggs to test male sperm.

We don't want to fertilise the

eggs. If a man as a fetterility

problem and we need to test his

sperm, this is a way to do it,

but it doesn't fertilise the

egg, it simply tests the

fetterility of the sperm. This

is still cloning isn't

it? Let's make the distinction

between therapeutic and

reproductive cloning. This ills

not reproductive cloning and

the legislation makes very,

very strict penalties for anyone that tries to do that.

In fact, the penalties have

been increased to 15 years

imprisonment. The therapeutic

cloning process is known as

somatic cell nuclear transfer,

allows stem cells to be derived

from an embryo using an

unfetter I'llised egg with

another cell, such as the skin

cell of a patient. It is said

to have huge potentials for the greatest breakthroughs in

medical science scene in the

treatment of spinal chord

injury, eye and heart diseases

motor neurone diseases and

others. It would be morally

wrong not to let the debate

continue. Watching carefully is

the Robina. 14 years ago, she

was paralysed from the chest

down in a skiing accident. Obviously Cardinel

Pell is entitled to his view,

but I think a lot of Catholics

have been very offended by the

fact that he's entered into the

debate in such a dramatic

way. Our coalition is a group encompassing Spinal Cure

Australia and people with

diabetes, motor neurone disease

and Parkinsons and other

countries such as Rhetts

syndrome. We represent some

500,000 people that are living

with diseases like this. These

kind of people are hoping,

their families are hoping too

that perhaps one day there may

be treatments available. It's

not just about where we are

now, but about people in the

future and the promise of

potential suffering being

alleviated for people that perhaps aren't suffering from

the countries right now, but

maybe one day will be too.

Minister, the bill is now

carried by the legislative

assembly, 65-24. You listened

to the debate. Members

struggling with their

consciences seem to indicate

that it would lead inevitably

to human cloning and I suppose

the context is with the

pharmaceutical industry, the

medical research industry,

there are billions of dollars

to be gained worldwide from

medical breakthroughs and the

vested interest pressure would

force people into unethical

practice and your bill is the

thin edge of the wedge of that

unethical outcome. Look, the

bill is incredibly clear about

human cloning. It prohibits it

entirely. Absolutely prohibited

unlawful, punishable by 15

years jail. I think that many

people in their speech who

supported the bill that say was

this ever to change, we would

absolutely be voting exactly

the same way, to prohibit human

cloning and prohibit these

embryos ever being

implanted. That's all very

well, but you have to have a

method by which you would

uncover people who were

behaving unethically because of the vested interest. That's

right. What the bill does is

strengthen the powers of the

licensing committee that is run

through the Federal Government.

So the regulately authorities

now have the ability to enter

premises that don't even hold a

licence. So they are given the

power to enter for all

premises, those that hold

licences and those that don't. We are strengthening the

provisions in the bill. You

acknowledge the potential for

unethical practice. Perhaps,

but I like to think that there

aren't that many mad scientists

out there, I am hopeful of.

Most scientists are motivated

by good and helping their

patients and helping people

they see every day, struggling

with debilitating diseases. I

think we need to have faith in

that as well. So the minister's

faith resides with the

scientists. The bill still has

to pass the upper house.

Cardinel Pell declined a

Stateline interview with the

majority of Catholic lower

house MPs rejected their

religious leader's advice, the

question we wanted to ask with

great respect, are there ever

any consequence for cardinals

who can't deliver the numbers?

The Sydney Film Festival opens

this weekend and there is one

film on the programme that is

already attracting interest.

It's called the 'Fibros and the

Silvertails'. A documentary

about the good old days of the

rugby league class wars and the

bloodiest of on-field battles.

Sharon O'Neill had a preview.

Modern day rugby league is a

multimillion-dollar business

that tries to protect its

reputation both on and off the

field. In the era of the video

referee, thuggery has been

virtually outlawed. But it

wasn't always that

way. Straight pass, swinging

right arm... In 1978, western

suburbs was the most brutal

team in rugby league. Proud of

its working-class background.

Why did the fans love it?

They were in the same boat.

They were in the working-class

area around the western

suburbs, all the factories and

they loved I. They said, "Hang

on, we're not living at Manly

or at the eastern suburbs

sitting there drinking our

coffee and esuppresso coffee,

we're here doing the hard

yards." On the other side of

the harbour, a different style

of team, Manly Warringah, was

wooing audiences with its

stars. Over the course of that

year, these two sides became

the talk of rugby league. They

pursued not just football, but

a class war. Yeah, it was

about the class war coming on

to the football field. It was a

battle of the relatively poor

versus the relatively rich.

Now that famous battle on

field and off has become the

subject of a documentary by

film-maker Paul Oliver, who was

motivated by some childhood

demons he had to put to heft.

It really came from my

childhood memory of when I was

10. I remember the Wests-Manly

final. A final where I was so

nervous I couldn't listen to

the game with my family. I

locked myself in my room and

held the rosery. I wanted to go

back and explore whether the

passion that I remembered at

that time was - if there was

any truth in it or whether I

was a fan with sour grapes. In

1978, western suburbs was the

underdog with no experience of

doing well in the

competition. But the team under

coach Roy Masters had other

ideas. It was Masters who

pushed the notion of a class

war in the competition,

describing his own side as the

Fibros, ready and willing to

take on the Manly Silvertails.

The term Silvertail came from

Frank Hardy. He identified the

Silvertail, the big long black suits that the establishment

class in Melbourne wore to the

races. The term Fibro came from

the dwellings I would pass as I

drove to my home in

Penrith. That time gave us a

seasons and it was really

important to you in you grew up

in the western suburbs that

they stood up for you and the

fact that you might have had

less than other people and that

was meant to be a source of

pride and it reaffirmed who you

were and that you could be

proud coming from out here. So

it was really important in

giving - it went beyond

football fans and gave the area

a sense of belonging and

identity. This psychology of

the underdog paid off for Wests

and the delighted fans watched

their team go to the top of the

rugby league table. I'm not a

hateful person, but I hated the

guts of them. All of us did. If

we could have - we went out

there physically to maim them.

That's how we went on the

field, to physically hurt

people. But the on-field

violence won no fans among

rugby league officials. Nobody

enjoys anything more than a

punchup between front row

forwards. That's part of the

character of rugby league. But

we were getting to the stage of

stiff arm tackles, elbows,

knees, kicking, gouging, that's

gutter stuff. That's not sport.

That's brawling by louts. We

didn't want it in the game.

That's what we were getting

to. So, for the first time, the

league used a video of the game

to penalise some of Wests noft

notorious players. I got cited

for attempting to stomp on the

head of a player and eye

gouging and the video sort of

showed half hearted I had my

hand on his face. Western

suburbs finished the

competition as minor Premiers

and in the finals that year,

faced their arch enemy, the

so-called Silvertail,

Manly-Warringah. Enter, Greg

Hollywood Hartley, perhaps the

most colourful and controversial referee in

football history. Hartley was

seen by western suburbs as

being pro-Manly, an allegation

which to this day, still

rankles with him. Manly were on

fire, and so were the other

sides. They were the best

games. The best referee would

be appointed to those games. In

the wisz dumb of the

appointments board at that

time, I was the number one

referee so I went to the number

one game. That's where the

conspiracy thing came on.

Hartley has Manly again and

again and again. In the final

of 1978, Manly beat Wests 14-7

after referee Hartley

disallowed two West

tries. Manly scored the first

try and it was catch up all the

way through. Wests had two tries disallowed which added

fuels to the passions if you

were listening on the radio

thinking you've scored a try

two times, almost. It was a

great dramatic game. You

thought you were going to win

on numerous occasions, but it

didn't happen. For Paul Oliver,

this film has not only given

him the opportunity to revisit

an important year of his

childhood, but he's happy it

will give others a chance to

relive the colourful Sydney era

of the Fibros and the

Silvertail. I think a lot of

people still go to the footy as

one of the interviewees put it

to see somebody else beat the

be-Jesus out of somebody

else! Sydney is really the

epicentre of rugby league in

the world. It's a tough game

and I'm glad it's still a part

of the culture of the city.

And that's all from us. We've

had to hold over our story on

the smoking ban in clubs and

pubs until next week.

Bye-bye. Closed Captions by CSI

Hi, I'm Andy Muirhead,

and whether it's good books, cool toys, classic furniture or even parts for that World War II fighter plane, we've got something for everyone on tonight's episode of Collectors. THEME MUSIC Evening, gang. Hi, Andy. Hello. We've got a very devoted collector on tonight's show. Yeah, we do. Tonight we meet a man who's so moved by one author, he's collected his life's work, and then some. Somerset Maugham changed my life in that he gave me wisdom. Maugham has been my psychotherapist, if you like. He's been there for me. And I delve into the ultra-cool world of designer toys. Who knows where designer toys are gonna turn up next? The intriguing thing is that they are both play value and art, and highly collectable. And I try and convince you all