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Thanks, John. That's ABC News. Stay with us now for News. Stay with us now for the 7.30 Report
coming Enjoy your evening. Goodnight. Tonight on the 7.30 Report - the potential risks of re
productive engineering, are scientists going too far? A special interview with fertility guru
Robert Winston.

In 20 years time people will look back and wonder what we were thinking back then, that this was
immoral or immoral or we weren't going nearly far enough.

Troop transport company failing aviation safety standards, former staff say

Troop transport company failing aviation safety standards, former staff say

Broadcast: 12/07/2007

Reporter: Nonee Walsh

John Howard's commitment to reconstruction in Iraq and anti-terror efforts in Afghanistan involves
more than 2,500 members of the Australian Defence Forces serving overseas at any one time. The task
of moving some of the troops has been given to a private Australian company, but former staff have
told the ABC the company is failing to maintain a commitment to aviation safety standards.

Transcript

ALI MOORE: John Howard's commitment to reconstruction in Iraq and anti-terror efforts in
Afghanistan involves more than 2,500 members of the Australian Defence Forces serving overseas at
any one time.

The task of moving some of the troops has been given to a private Australian company, Strategic
Aviation, which leases a Portuguese-registered Airbus.

But former staff have told the ABC's investigative unit the company is failing to maintain a
commitment to aviation safety standards. Strategic Aviation has vehemently denied the allegations,
claiming it's the victim of a commercially motivated campaign to discredit them.

As Nonee Walsh reports, the Australian arm of the operation seems to be working in a regulatory
black hole.

NONEE WALSH: Australian troops being farewelled on their way to fight foreign wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan.

You might think they had all be flown there by the RAAF, but in this age of outsourcing, it's a
private company that sometimes does the job, Strategic Aviation. And it's big business. The
contracts for last year alone were worth more than $100 million.

Over the past two years, Strategic Aviation has carried thousands of Australian troops, but now
former employees are making serious allegations about the operation.

'JEAN', FORMER CABIN CREW: I would say if you think it's dangerous going to the Middle East, take a
look at your transportation first.

NONEE WALSH: They're alleging that the company worries more about profits than safety.

NONEE WALSH: They had no regard for safety procedures, they weren't regulated by anybody. Nobody
was keeping watch, there was no one to tell about the safety standards.

NONEE WALSH: 'Jean' - that's not her real name - left Strategic Aviation angered at its attitude to
safety issues.

She's one of three former staff still working in the aviation industry, who agreed to be
interviewed on the condition that their identity was protected.

'JEAN': We all think it's just an accident waiting to happen. A lot of our parents and our spouses
wanted us to leave because they were concerned for our safety.

NONEE WALSH: 'Jean' says that Strategic Aviation has ignored inadequate documentation and breached
airline safety training rules.

'JEAN': For the first six months of flying, we were flying without any of us having done a
ditching. In a ditching situation, there are a lot of flight attendants that had no clue how to
open a door, disengage the slide raft and evacuate passengers, our soldiers and themselves into
slide rafts.

NONEE WALSH: But the company says all pilots and staff have done wet drill emergency training.
Michael James is an executive director with Strategic Aviation.

MICHAEL JAMES, CO-EXECUTIVE DIRECTION, STRATEGIC AVIATION: The requirement is that you must
complete a wet drill. That's the only requirement in regards to wet drills. All pilots and flight
attendants have completed a well drill.

NONEE WALSH: Strategic Aviation says it is replacing one faulty emergency card it found recently.

'Jean' says staff reported these issues to managers and finally complained about the company to the
Australian Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

But the whole operation is actually monitored from Portugal, 18,000 kilometres away.

MICHAEL JAMES: We have our main contract which is the Airbus A 330 contract and that's operated by
Hifly.

NONEE WALSH: Hifly is the Portuguese airline which leases the Airbus to Strategic Aviation.

MICHAEL JAMES: Hifly operates under the Joint Aviation Authority of the European Union, which is
governed by also the Portuguese Aviation Authority.

NONEE WALSH: Hifly was licensed to fly passengers with a fleet of one: the A 330, which transports
Australian troops. It was granted its first international air operator certificates last year.

MICHAEL JAMES: CASA issues us with an Australian Air Operators Certificate, a Foreign Air Operators
Certificate. They audit our systems as well, and ensure that they are on par or acceptable to the
Australian public.

NONEE WALSH: In CASA's eyes, Strategic Aviation is just a broker, despite the fact that it hires
Australian crews.

It is Hifly, the operator of the plane, that holds an Australian issued Foreign Aircraft Operator's
Certificate. The operation run by Strategic Aviation is not audited by CASA, nor Portugal's
aviation authority, INAC.

In a statement, INAC told us they audit pilot logs, crew duty hours and maintenance records in
Hifly's Lisbon office in Portugal, as Hifly 'retains full responsibility for it's aircraft
operation and maintenance'.

INAC says 'Australian crews are employed by Strategic Aviation but it is Hifly which trains and
qualifies them'.

CASA has exercised its right to spot checks on the Airbus on the tarmac but former Strategic
Aviation staff argue that CASA's almost non existent oversight of the Australian operation and the
distance of the Portuguese regulator are key factors contributing to the existence of safety issues
such as crew fatigue.

'RICK', FORMER CABIN CREW: The duties can be up to 24 hours by the time the crew get to the hotel.
There's no adequate crew rest for the crew to go and sleep. So from a safety point of view, crew
are operating fatigued especially on an aircraft isn't a good thing.

NONEE WALSH: Strategic Aviation denies allowing breaches of regulations.

'JEAN': Staff raise issues with Strategic management weekly sometimes daily and nothing would be
done.

NONEE WALSH: Some former staff allege that onboard engineers told them not to log faulty equipment.

'RICK': Don't write it in the cabin defect log, because that will delay the aircraft.

MICHAEL JAMES: Look, as far as I'm aware, we have not received any reports in regards to that and
what we actually do within Strategic is that we ask all crew or any member of staff that if they do
have any concerns to raise these issues, no matter if it's with engineers, management or even the
authority. We're quite happy for any concerns to be raised immediately if there is a concern and
we'll address them immediately.

NONEE WALSH: Former employees say the staff turnover speaks for itself, with more than half the
staff having left over a very short period.

MICHAEL JAMES: We've got pretty good staff retention but as I said, these claims are commercially
motivated, but to be totally honest we actually pride ourselves on being a great training
organisation, because members of staff wish to join other airlines which can go to other airlines
and other airlines are approaching our staff because of the safety training that they've received
and the online training they've received.

NONEE WALSH: Another of the former Australian staff suggests that a more coordinated approach needs
to be taken to regulate and monitor this important troop operation.

'CHARLIE', FORMER STRATEGIC ADMINISTRATOR: I would suggest that CASA, Defence and the Portuguese
Civil Aviation Safety Authority have never actually sat in a room together and agreed on how this
operation should be regulated

NONEE WALSH: CASA has told the ABC that it has no reason to meet with defence about its contractor
or with INAC which is clearly the regulator of the non Australian operation. Strategic says it's
happy with the operation.

MICHAEL JAMES: Hifly is one of the safest companies in the air because they are governed by a
number of authorities.

NONEE WALSH: And the Defence Department is satisfied that the contractor is meeting all aviation
regulations.

The ADF says it continues to have every confidence in the Strategic Aviation service carrying
Australian troops to war zones.

'JEAN': I think their attitude to safety is very nonchalant. I don't believe they care so much
about the safety. They just want to get that aircraft out, every time, no matter what.

ALI MOORE: Nonee Walsh with that report.

Top End communities resisting Indigenous intervention plan

Top End communities resisting Indigenous intervention plan

Broadcast: 12/07/2007

Reporter: Murray McLaughlin

It has been a huge drafting exercise, and the new laws for intervention in Northern Territory
Indigenous communities are now expected to be introduced in the next scheduled parliamentary
session early in August. But the proposed amendments are under threat of challenge in the high
court.

Transcript

ALI MOORE: It's now unlikely Federal Parliament will be recalled for a special sitting this month
to debate and pass legislation for the intervention in Northern Territory Aboriginal communities.

It's a huge drafting exercise, and the laws are now expected to be introduced in the next scheduled
parliamentary session, early in August. The draftsmen will be anxious to get it right.

Already proposed amendments to the Territory Land Rights Act to allow the Commonwealth to acquire
Aboriginal land are under threat of challenge in the High Court. The proposal to abolish the system
which requires permits to visit Aboriginal communities is also being criticised.

Murray McLaughlin reports from one Top End community which is resisting change.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: It's only 220 kilometres in a straight line south west from Darwin, but for many
months of the wet season the township of Palumpa is isolated by road.

The Aboriginal owners established a successful cattle station here 30 years ago and Palumpa is now
home to around 500 people.

KIM BARBER, ANTHROPOLOGIST, NORTHERN LAND COUNCIL: It was started by scratch as a cattle camp and
eventually developed into a station. It was built up from people who from their earliest beginnings
were cattle people. It's been built into creating more enterprise.

JACK WODIDJ, CHAIRMAN, PALUMPA COUNCIL: There wasn't any machines or trucks, things like that. A
lot of hard work just manpower.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: Palumpa is a dry community. First impressions are that this is a hard working
and peaceable place. This rubbish collection was a school holiday assignment unrelated to our visit
yesterday.

The people of Palumpa say there's been never child abuse here, and they're upset to be on the list
of 73 Aboriginal communities which the Federal Government plans to acquire in the Northern
Territory.

JACK WODIDJ: It's really hurting me. My feeling is it's just not good.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: Kim Barber has worked as an anthropologist in this region a since the early
1980s. He came to Palumpa a few days ago to explain at the Federal Government's intervention.

KIM BARBER: People were literally shocked.

They weren't aware that there'd been any investigation into child abuse or any of that nature in
their communities. And weren't aware of any of those sort of activities in their communities and,
therefore, were shocked they would be targeted.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: Beyond the shame of being wrapped into the Federal Government's attack on child
sex abuse, the people of Palumpa have been taken aback by the Government's plan to acquire their
township by way of a 5 year lease.

Indigenous Affairs Minister Mal Brough has tended to justify the land takeover by depicting
Aboriginal communities as Government outposts, where as all the infrastructure has been built from
the public purse.

MAL BROUGH, INDIGENOUS AFFAIRS MINISTER: We're talking about places where there are publicly funded
roads, publicly funded buildings, sometimes pools and, of course, all the houses are publicly
funded.

KIM BARBER: The initial houses were built basically by hand using materials brought from Port
Keats, so in effect the mission supported the enterprise, people effectively constructed the houses
themselves, and I think some of the early station profits went into building some of the early
dwellings here.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: The men of Palumpa took The 7:30 Report

These ones here, they were built with your money?

ABORIGINAL COMMUNITY MEMBER: Private money, yep.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: At the annual NAIDOC rally in Darwin this week, the Northern Land Council, which
represents Aboriginal traditional owners in the Top End threatened a legal challenge to the Federal
Government plan to acquire land in Aboriginal townships.

RON LEVY, LAWYER, NORTHERN LAND COUNCIL: Courts have historically taken a very close look at any
attempt by governments to acquire private property.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: The Northern Land Council cites Palumpa as an example where the Federal
Government plan is too wide sweeping and arbitrary.

RON LEVY: The Government could consult with each community and carefully audit each community
before it proceeds with a carte blanche arbitrary compulsory acquisition in over 70 communities.

MAL BROUGH: We want to remove all the artificial barriers that are preventing change in a positive
sense, but if I waste another six or 12 months negotiating with people that may have a good reason
to negotiate beyond one of having it fixed, people will quickly become disillusioned and say, this
is once again talk and no action.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: Also this week, there was evidence of growing opposition to the federal plan to
abolish permits which outsiders need to enter Aboriginal land.

Mal Brough had a taste of that opposition during his visit to Central Australia last week.

BERNARD KERNAN, RESIDENT: Taking the permit system away is going to get every Tom, Dick and harry
coming in. You don't know who comes in here, maybe a paedophile.

MAL BROUGH: Mate, no towns in Australia have permits other than these.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: Northern Territory police officers, too, have come out against the plan to
abolish permits. The Police Association says it would remove a useful policing tool.

WARREN SNOWDON, LABOR MP, LINGIARI: It wants to prevent the drug pushers, the black market alcohol
deliverers, the pornographers coming to these communities. At the moment they have some
limitations, because the permits give the opportunity for the police to question people about why
they're in a community.

MAL BROUGH: Well, maybe I turn it around the other way and say, "Let's have a permit system
throughout Australia, when we don't have evidence about someone but a suspicion, let's keep them
out of my town of Glasshouse Mountains". Well, we don't do that.

MURRAY MCLAUGHLIN: At Palumpa, the council chairman grog running would worsen, and tourists would
run rampant if permits were abolished and the town opened up to strangers.

JACK WODIDJ: People have been using this system maybe for all of their life. They're talking about
it with the government, they just want to run after our country, our land. Who's going to control
that?

ALI MOORE: That report from Murray McLaughlin.

IVF professor warns against genetic engineering

IVF professor warns against genetic engineering

Broadcast: 12/07/2007

Reporter: Ali Moore

Professor Robert Winston, one of Britain's best know doctors and scientists, was a pioneer of IVF
treatment in the 80s, setting up a successful clinic in London. Now he is back in the spotlight
warning the potential dangers of genetic engineering and the risks of taking the technology too
far.

Transcript

ALI MOORE: He's the fertility guru who's graced our television sets over the years. Professor
Robert Winston, one of Britain's best known doctors and scientists, was a pioneer of IVF treatment
in the 80s, setting up a successful clinic in London.

In 1995, he was made a life peer for his work in the field. To Australian audiences, Lord Winston
is best known as the presenter of a number of BBC television series, including the award winning,
'The Human Body'. Now he's back in the spotlight, warning of the potential dangers of genetic
engineering and the risks of taking the technology too far.

With his latest book Child Against All Odds, how far should we go in the struggle for life?

I spoke to Professor Robert Winston earlier in Sydney today.

(to Professor Robert Winston) Professor Winston, welcome to the program.

ROBERT WINSTON: Thank you.

ALI MOORE: A pioneer in reproductive technology, indeed also so-called pre implantation diagnosis,
the beginnings of selection, and yet you're very clear in your latest book that all these
technologies, quote, 'as well as carrying modest promises for improving the lot of many humans,
unquestionably contain seeds that could lead to our own destruction'.

Is the technology the seed, or is it what we may do with it?

ROBERT WINSTON: I love your point about modest promises, because I think that's a very accurate
description.

ALI MOORE: They're your words?

ROBERT WINSTON: Are they? I'd forgotten I'd written them. Well, I stand by that. I think actually,
again and again, we have scientific advances which are over hyped and if you look at the human
genome, for example, all sorts of promises were made about it and to some extent it's stem cell
biology which no doubt we'll come to in a second.

But certainly reproductive technology, people like me have pedalled in failure because most of the
people who are desperate women and men, but largely women because it affects women so much more
because they are the ones who are the patients who have these horrible things done to them, most of
them go away without success. IVF, even in the best hands never reaches a genuine 50 per cent
success rate.

I mean people massage the figures a bit, but actually the human embryo only implants and produces a
baby about 15 to 20 per cent of the time. The reason why I have this long winded intro is I think
that's what's led people to manipulate reproduction and therefore...

ALI MOORE: And that's the seeds of destruction?

ROBERT WINSTON: ...And that's the seeds of destruction in this book. The question really is, even
there's a modest amount you can do with the technology, will there come a time that with our
ambition, we will try to go too far with it? I think that's what the book is really about.

ALI MOORE: If you look at that question, are there paths that we don't follow? Are there research
directions that we shut off before we know the potential outcome for fear of what we might discover
we can do?

ROBERT WINSTON: Well, some countries have done that, of course, and the classic example is the ban
on stem cell research in a large number of countries, but I don't think you can argue that you
shouldn't do an area of research because of what might come out of it.

You see, the classic example would be, wouldn't it, nuclear technology. You know, radiation. Of
course, had we not gone down that research route we wouldn't have invented the atom bomb and the H
bomb and neutron bombs and so on. On the other hand, we wouldn't have had X-rays which have saved
more lives than any bombs put together, including the ones dropped on Japan for example.

So I think the question of how you use the technology has to be something that we do have to have
discussion, dialogue about.

ALI MOORE: But how do you get that consensus, and informed consensus, and ensure that the consensus
is keeping up with the science?

ROBERT WINSTON: What I'm arguing for is that regulation doesn't work. Because if you regulate, this
is from high, it's topped down, people who are clever will go overseas, you can't regulate
globally. I think there has to be change of culture. There has to be a recognition of citizenship,
of responsibility. If you go to any major university in Britain, America or Australia, ethics is
not taught routinely to all science graduates. It is to medical students but not to science
graduates.

There should be an understanding of commercial conflicts, conflicts of interests, the notion of
exaggeration. We always talk about science as if it's certain when actually science is really about
our uncertainty, and there needs to be a much greater recognition of those problems.

ALI MOORE: Isn't one of the key issues here that it's such a moving feast? One example from your
own life is that you openly admit to having qualms about so called designer babies and you include
in those qualms the context of families who select an embryo for a particular tissue type if
there's a sibling who is afflicted with a fatal disorder. You say that breeding, literally, to
provide the tissue for a transplant, now you say you were wrong to criticise that treatment?

ROBERT WINSTON: That's quite right. Well, I think I was a bit arrogant about it and I think that's
an issue for scientists. I think it's very easy for scientists to feel they know the answer and I
think I was wrong to feel like that and I think really, I had neglected a full understanding of
what those families were going through and a recognition that if they tissue typed a baby it
doesn't really threaten the moral fabric of our society. Very few people are going to do this.

ALI MOORE: What does affect the moral fabric of society? It's so intensely personal?

ROBERT WINSTON: Yes, what a difficult question that is, I'd have to think about that. But I think
that one of the issues here is the question of human autonomy. I think that we have to recognise
that as doctors we're responsible to the autonomy of the individual in front of us who's suffering
and we have to listen to them primarily.

I think we're not responsible for society's autonomy. We're not responsible for the health of
society. The interesting paradigm, the example would be the Nazi doctors before the war, who
believed absolutely in many cases altruistically, it seems bizarre, that actually they were acting
in the best interests of society to do the sorts of horrific things they did and they forget the
cardinal principle, that actually the individual is what they should be responsible for, not their
society. And I think that's one of the issues in our whole moral structure in medicine.

ALI MOORE: So when it comes to IVF, where do you draw the line? Who should not be deemed eligible?

ROBERT WINSTON: Well, you're asking me an impossible question and I don't mean that rudely, I mean
it's a question that we go through every day and we find it impossible to answer.

ALI MOORE: You wouldn't ever have a blanket age ban, for example?

ROBERT WINSTON: I think it comes back to being open minded about the individuals. I would be very
cautious about treating women over 50 and in general, I would be very cautious because I think it's
a misuse of the technology because you're treating a natural event, the natural menopause as
opposed to an unnatural menopause which is a bit earlier.

And I think the older the woman gets, the more careful you have to be, but on the other hand,
different people age at different rates. They have different prospects, and they may be able to
care for a child differently and love that child differently. So I think there has to be an
individual basis for research.

I've met in the course of writing that book, I think I mention it, I met Mrs Illiescue in Romania
who is now 67 and I mean, she looks ancient, she looks really old, quite sad. And you look at this
little child and I cuddled her baby who's now 18 months old, and she sat on my lap for two hours
while I interviewed her mother. She never once complained. Now I argue that her relationships are
odd. Now, will that matter when she grows up? I don't know.

ALI MOORE: Did you walk away from that experience, the oldest woman in the world to have a child,
did you walk away feeling happy?

ROBERT WINSTON: Uncomfortable. I didn't feel happy, I felt uncomfortable. I also felt a bit sad. I
also felt it was difficult to make judgements because I could see that she really loved her little
girl and that for her this was incredibly important and a huge focus.

Whether that little girl it's really in her best interest, I doubt and, of course, her mother may
die prematurely or may die soon. On the other hand, you have to say to yourself well, is it better
to exist than never to have existed at all?

ALI MOORE: And, of course, we have people like Rupert Murdoch who at the ripe age of 71, 72, 73,
fathers a child.

ROBERT WINSTON: Yes. Well, he might boast about that, Picasso was ten years older.

Clarke and Dawe: pulp fiction

Clarke and Dawe: pulp fiction

Broadcast: 12/07/2007

Reporter: John Clarke and Bryan Dawe

John Clarke and Bryan Dawe on the controversial proposal by forestry giant Gunns to build a pulp
mill in Tasmania.

Transcript

ALI MOORE: Now it's time for John Clarke and Bryan Dawe, this week taking aim at Tasmanian Premier
Paul Lennon and the controversial proposal by forestry giant Gunns to build a pulp mill in the
Apple Isle.

BRYAN DAWE: Premier Lennon, thanks for your time.

JOHN CLARKE: Good evening Bryan, very good to be with you.

BRYAN DAWE: As Premier, I'd like to talk to you about Tasmania?

JOHN CLARKE: Yes, well, I'm always very happy to talk about Tasmania, a great place, Tasmania,
Bryan very happy to talk about it. What particular aspect of it interests you?

BRYAN DAWE: Well, the administration, how it all works. You run the Government, is that right?

JOHN CLARKE: Sure, Bryan. Do you want to talk about the people who run Tasmania or do you want to
talk about the Government?

BRYAN DAWE: Well... they're different?

JOHN CLARKE: Yeah. We've got a bicameral system.

BRYAN DAWE: Yeah, two houses, sure.

JOHN CLARKE: No, there are plenty of houses, Bryan, it's just that we got a bicameral system of
administration in Tasmania.

BRYAN DAWE: What are they?

JOHN CLARKE: Well, I'm the Government...

BRYAN DAWE: The administration of the state, yeah...

JOHN CLARKE: ... I'm very happy to talk to you about the Government Bryan, I'm the Premier. It's
quite interesting.

BRYAN DAWE: You are the Premier.

JOHN CLARKE: If you're interested in being a Premier.

BRYAN CLARKE: No, no, no, I just wanted to ask you about...

JOHN CLARKE: It's very interesting work. You need a suit and a tie. Fax machine.

BRYAN DAWE: A what?

JOHN CLARKE: A fax machine, you need a fax machine.

BRYAN DAWE: A fax machine. Why?

JOHN CLARKE: Well, they're going to need to get in contact with you, aren't they, the people who
need who need the laws passed.

BRYAN DAWE: But don't you write the laws?

JOHN CLARKE: No, no, we pass the laws, Bryan, it's a bicameral system.

BRYAN DAWE: Well who writes it?

JOHN CLARKE: I don't know who writes them, Bryan. We just get them off a fax machine and we bung
them through the Parliament. They are very attractive...

BRYAN DAWE: You just pass them?

JOHN CLARKE: Yeah. We just pass them.

BRYAN DAWE: Like, "All of those in favour say aye", type of thing?

JOHN CLARKE: Yes, all those people go through that door or that door. It's a bit like panto, Bryan,
we enjoy it. It's a beautiful building the Parliament. Pop in if you're in the area.

BRYAN DAWE: You're saying the Government is different from the administration, is that right?

JOHN CLARKE: Bryan, what I'm saying is we pass the laws.

BRYAN DAWE: So who runs the State?

JOHN CLAKRE: I run the State, Bryan, I'm the CEO of Gunns.

BRYAN DAWE: No, hang on, you're the Premier of Tasmania?

JOHN CLARKE: Sorry, no, the guy who runs the State is the CEO of Gunns, I'm just the Premier.

BRYAN DAWE: Right. Is Gunns your electorate?

JOHN CLARKE: Oh, Gunns is everybody's electorate, Bryan. You're mad if you're not in the Gunns'
electorate.

BRYAN DAWE: You're the Premier of Tasmania?

JOHN CLARKE: That's right, that's my job.

BRYAN DAWE: You were elected?

JOHN CLARKE: That's right, by Gunns, Bryan, they put me there and I'm doing the job as well as I
possibly can.

BRYAN DAWE: Who are Gunns?

JOHN CLARKE: Well Gunns, Bryan, they're the people who make the laws in Tasmania in the bicameral
system I'm trying to explain to you.

BRYAN DAWE: Well what are the laws about?

JOHN CLARKE: Anything, a lot of Tasmanian laws, Bryan, are about trees.

BRYAN DAWE: What about trees?

JOHN CLARKE: Oh, where they are.

BRYAN DAWE: How to get to them?

JOHN CLARKE: How to get them out.

BRYAN DAWE: Yeah. What happens to the trees when you get them out?

JOHN CLARKE: They sell them, Bryan, make them into paper.

BRYAN DAWE: Paper?

JOHN CLARKE: Yeah. Make them into paper.

BRYAN DAWE: Well, what for?

JOHN CLARKE: So we can get the faxes off the fax machine, Bryan, you can't get the fax off the fax
machine if there's no paper.

BRYAN DAWE: So they make fax paper out of these things?

JOHN CLARKE: That's right, Bryan. Get the trees out, turn them into fax paper.

BRYAN DAWE: So really, this is all about chopping trees down?

JOHN CLARKE: Well, the trees aren't going to walk out themselves, Bryan, and turn themselves into
fax paper, are they? You've got to chop them down.

BRYAN DAWE: Well, are you familiar with global warming?

JOHN CLARKE: No, who does he work for? Get him to call me, I'll be in the Parliament. Lovely
building the Parliament, Bryan, that's where I mostly work.

BRYAN DAWE: Yeah. Mr Lennon, thanks for your time.

JOHN CLARKE: Is that a Gunns' fax?

BRYAN DAWE: No, no.

JOHN CLARKE: "Thanks for your time". I get a few saying, "Thanks for your time" from Gunns, that's
all.

BRYAN DAWE: Oh do you? They thank you?

JOHN CLARKE: Yeah, course they do. I'm the Premier of the State.

BRYAN DAWE: Yeah, but they run it.

JOHN CLARKE: It's a bicameral system, yeah.

BRYAN DAWE: Two cameras.

JOHN CLARKE: Yeah, just like here.

BRYAN DAWE: Yeah, good.

JOHN CLARKE: Give me that, I'll make it into a law.

ALI MOORE: John Clarke and Bryan Dawe.

Hello, welcome to Catalyst. I'm Graham Phillips. Tonight, the last episode in our whirlwind tour of
the human body. This time, Dr Alice Roberts looks at that most mysterious organ, the brain and
shows us ways we can hang onto our marbles for longer. We push our bodies to the limit. But what's
happening outside them is nothing compared to everything that's going on inside them. Today, I'm
going to be looking at the most complex and mysterious organ. The human brain. I'll find out how
the brain can be tricked and trained to improve its function. I'm going to see for myself what my
own brain looks like. And we'll be following a life-saving operation to remove a blood clot in the
brain. THEME MUSIC The brain creates who we are. It's constantly processing masses of information
so we can make sense of the world around us. It plans and guides every move we make and it's the
seat of our emotions and personality. I'm meeting up with neuroscientist Dr Beau Lotto who's
investigating how our brains have evolved to make sense of the world. We call it perception. But
how exactly does it work? Optical illusions provide us with fascinating clues about how our brains
process the flood of images entering our eyes. This one, whether he's Tweedle Dum or Tweedle Dee,
I'm not sure but he looks to me like he's pretty rounded, fleshed out.

Like he's coming out at you.

Yeah. In fact, clever lighting is fooling the brain into thinking that both figures are protruding.
The left-hand figure is actually concave.

What the brain has to do, it has to construct what it sees from its experience. The only way it can
do that is by shaping itself according to the trial-and-error process of interacting with the
world.

So, in reality, everything we see is an illusion. But the brain's ability to interpret all the
information it's bombarded with is crucial for our survival. The brain is an exceptional organ but
like all the others, it needs looking after and diet and lifestyle have a big impact on it just as
on any organ. But what makes for a brain-friendly lifestyle? 27-year-old Sean Gilbertson is keen to
boost his brain power. Sean is a busy teacher at Llanelltyd Primary School in South Wales.

It is the best job for me. I wouldn't swap it for anything. You can influence young people's lives.
You can...what I do today could shape a young person's life for the rest of their life.

Sean is using his brain all day long. But he's worried that his memory is letting him down.

Right. Megan...Keila...

He thinks his memory problems are a direct result of his other great passion - sport. As well as
being PE coordinator for the school, he regularly plays for his local rugby team. We've come to
meet Sean. It's actually quite difficult 'cause he doesn't have much free time.