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It's a given me five years, just on, of extra time. Tonight - targetting the big sea. What we
targetting the big sea. What we have done is developed an antibody which can directly target colon
cancer cells, wherever they may be in the body. The radical magic bullet treatment promising new
hope for cancer patients. So this shows you that the antibody has found its mark? Exactly. He could
go up like a Roman candle. From the standing front, he could jump. And celebrating the legacy of
the first Indigenous Australiay rules player to make his mark in the big smoke. He's been a
trailblazer but certainly made a pathway and inspiration for so many kids. Commenlt comment still
going. 30 metres up. This program is captioned live.

Prosecutors allege Guantanamo military commissions rigged

Prosecutors allege Guantanamo military commissions rigged

Reporter: Leigh Sales

KERRY O'BRIEN: Welcome to the program. Both the US and Australian governments have given repeated
assurances that justice will be served for the hundreds of terrorist suspects held without trial at
Guantanamo Bay, including Australian David Hicks. But startling admissions have surfaced from two
of the military prosecutors who were assigned to the first cases. In emails obtained by the ABC,
they've described the process as a "fraud" which is "rigged" to ensure convictions. While the
Pentagon says an investigation found the prosecutors' allegations to be baseless, they still
constitute some of the most alarming criticisms yet of the military justice process at Guantanamo
Bay. This report from ABC North America correspondent, Leigh Sales.

LEIGH SALES: The 500 detainees here at Guantanamo Bay will get fair and open trials. That's the
promise being given to the American people and the world.

DONALD RUMSFELD, US SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The US has no desire to hold enemy combatants any longer
than is absolutely necessary. Each detainee will have an opportunity to present information on his

GEORGE BUSH, US PRESIDENT: If I determine that it's in the national security interests of our great
land to try by military commission those who make war on America, then we will do so.

US MILITARY SPOKESMAN: Those able to amongst themselves and each other. They do communicate. You
can probably hear that in the background.

LEIGH SALES: Last year, before the first military commission started, the world's media was taken
through Guantanamo where a brand new hearing room was proudly displayed. But behind the public
assurances, the military prosecution team pulling the first cases together, was in disarray. Some
of the officers were telling their superiors in the strongest of terms that the system was a
travesty of justice.

GENE FIDELL, INSTITUTE OF MILITARY JUSTICE: The very fact that junior officers would take it upon
themselves to memorialise the kinds of concerns and the kinds of harsh language they've used here
is the type of thing that would be very disquieting and tends to lend credence to their assertions
because officers don't do this casually.

LEIGH SALES: These emails obtained by the ABC show for the first time that severe concerns about
the military commissions go right to the heart of the process. As you'll see, two prosecutors
walked away from the system because they found it so Morley, ethically and professionally
intolerable. The Guantanamo commissions have had many critics. Among them the British Government,
the American Bar Association and the military defence lawyers assigned to the cases. But we now
know the criticism also came from within. Prosecutors who'd seen all the evidence against detainees
and were intimately involved in the process were rebelling. Major Rob Preston wrote to his
commanding officer in March last year, just three months before Australian David Hicks was charged.

MAJOR ROBERT PRESTON (GRAPHICS ON SCREEN): "I consider the insistence on pressing ahead with cases
that would be marginal, even if properly prepared, to be a severe threat to the reputation of the
military justice system, and even a fraud on the American people - surely they don't expect that
this fairly half-assed effort is all that we have been able to put together after all this time."

LEIGH SALES: His colleague, Captain John Carr, wrote a similar email a few days later.

CAPTAIN JOHN CARR (GRAPHICS ON SCREEN): "I expected there would be at least a minimal effort to
establish a fair process and diligently prepare cases against significant accused. Instead, I find
a half-hearted and disorganised effort to prosecute fairly low-level accused in a process that
appears to be rigged."

GENE FIDELL: Yes, I think the documents do suggest that the cases may have been puffed for
consumption of the public.

LEIGH SALES: Former military lawyer Gene Fidell has reviewed the chain of emails.

GENE FIDELL: The documents suggest a variety of shortcomings, including whether the management of
the Defence Department was given the straight story as to the preparations that were going on,
whether evidence was being destroyed. That's an assertion. Whether evidence was being turned over
to the Defence that should have been turned over to Defence under American constitutional law.
There are a number of other assertions.

LEIGH SALES: One of the most serious assertions is that the jury panel chosen to hear the cases are
stacked. Captain Carr writes to his boss: "You've repeatedly said to the office that the review
panel will be handpicked and will not acquit these detainees."

LEIGH SALES: Major Preston wrote of his ethical dilemma.

MAJOR PRESTON (GRAPHICS ON SCREEN): "I lie awake worrying about this every night, writing a motion
saying that the process will be full and fair when you don't really believe it is kind of hard."

LEIGH SALES: In their emails, both prosecutors say they can't continue with their Guantanamo cases.
A month later, transfers were granted and both are still serving as lawyers in the US military.
They declined to be interviewed by the ABC, but the Pentagon maintains an internal investigation
dismissed the allegations as based on misunderstandings, miscommunications and personality clashes.
Defence official Brigadier Thomas Hemingway agreed to a radio interview only.

BRIGADIER GENERAL THOMAS HEMINGWAY: I think what we did was work on some restructuring in the
office. There were some changes in the way cases were processed, but we found no evidence of any
criminal misconduct. We found no evidence of any ethical violations.

LEIGH SALES: Is it correct that prosecutors were told that the military commission panel would be
hand-picked and would not acquit the detainees?

BRIGADIER GENERAL THOMAS HEMINGWAY: Ah, I wasn't privy to any such allegation or statement. I can
tell you that any such assertion is clearly incorrect.

LEIGH SALES: David Hicks' military lawyer says he's shocked by the content of the prosecutor's
emails and hopes the Australian Government will ask the US for an explanation.

MAJOR MICHAEL MORI, DAVID HICKS' LAWYER: When you look at the system and how it is operating and
you learn - look at the information that's just come out, I would hope that they would say, "Enough
is enough."

PHILIP RUDDOCK, ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I have received assurances from them that they believe they have
a substantial case.

LEIGH SALES: But you haven't actually seen it?

PHILIP RUDDOCK: I've talked to them about aspects of it, but I don't seek to bring my judgment to
bear about whether or not it is substantial and nor do I ask my officials to do that.

LEIGH SALES: Today, back in Australia, Philip Ruddock is saying he wants more information.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: A military commission process was seen as appropriate to deal with unlawful
combatants where intelligence issues need to be protected. If there are serious questions raised, I
would want to explore them fully.

NICOLA ROXON, OPPOSITION ATTORNEY-GENERAL: He's been assuring the public that this is going to be a
fail trial. Either he's been misleading the public or the US has been misleading him and we'd like
to know which one it is.

LEIGH SALES: Melbourne barrister Lex Lasry , who was the Australian Law Council's official attorney
at Guantanamo Bay, says the emails vindicate concerns he previously raised about the fairness of
the military commissions.

LEX LASRY QC, LAW COUNCIL OBSERVER: I am concerned that people in senior prosecutorial positions at
the military commissions have felt the need to express these kinds of criticisms of the process.
That means there's some fundamental problem, which may well still exist.

LEIGH SALES: David Hicks' military commission is due to reconvene some time in September. His
defence team has a case currently before a US civil court and hopes it may bar his military trial
from proceeding. Observers say these new revelations warrant an external inquiry.

GENE FIDELL: Public confidence in the administration of justice in the military commissions will
not be served unless there's a proper investigation.

LEIGH SALES: The Pentagon considers this matter investigated and closed. Meaning that come
September, we're likely to see David Hicks and others tried by tribunals that even some of the US
military's own lawyers argue is fundamentally flawed.

KERRY O'BRIEN: And David Hicks is now coming up for four years behind the razor wire.

Wife stands by paedophile husband

Wife stands by paedophile husband

Reporter: Mick O'Donnell

KERRY O'BRIEN: The Western Australian Government's action in deporting notorious serial child
molester Robert Excell has sparked outrage both here and in Britain. Child abuse campaigners fear
Excell, who came to Australia as a child migrant before spending almost 40 years behind bars, will
offend again. But his wife, Maxine Excell, is standing by the man she married in jail and says he
is now reformed. She's publishing a book about her life as the wife of a man condemned by the
community. Mick O'Donnell reports.

MAXINE EXCELL: I loved him for many reasons, but mainly I loved him for his frankness, manliness
and naivete. He had the candour of a five-year-old child.

MICK O'DONNELL: To write with sympathy for a serial sex offender is hardly a popular act. For
years, Maxine Excell has been writing her story of life as the wife of a repeat child molester,
ready to publish on his release.

MAXINE EXCELL: I don't think anybody is born a paedophile. I mean, the hardest part about all of
this for Bob is he's got to live with his crimes and that's very painful for him.

MICK O'DONNELL: Robert Excell spent almost 40 years in Western Australian jails for sex crimes
against children, reoffending on parole three times. He's now 67 and in poor health. On Friday, he
was released, but immediately deported to England. The British press has gone into overdrive,
catching him on camera in Singapore and at Heathrow. The London Sun is calling for readers to dob
in his whereabouts.

PETE SAUNDERS, UK ASSN FOR PEOPLE ABUSED IN CHILDHOOD: I'm very concerned about somebody whose been
deported back to a country that is basically alien to them.

MICK O'DONNELL: British campaigners like Pete Saunders, director of the National Association for
People Abused in Childhood, are worried that a man deemed not safe for Western Australia should be
sent back to the streets of Britain.

PETE SAUNDERS: But without the right support mechanisms in place, who's to say that he may not go
back to an offending pattern, particularly if he feels that he's pushed into a corner.

GEOFF GALLOP, WA PREMIER: That's a matter for the British authorities.

MICK O'DONNELL: But the Western Australian Government is not apologetic about deporting Excell, who
the parole board has deemed to be a low-to-moderate risk of reoffending.

GEOFF GALLOP: We made it clear from a Western Australian point of view that he would not be going
back into the community in Western Australia again.

MICK O'DONNELL: Maxine Excell has flown to London with her husband, insisting he's a changed man.

MAXINE EXCELL: And I can't understand why they've decided, you know, or some people have decided he
couldn't be cured. Why shouldn't he? Everyone else gets cured.

MICK O'DONNELL: But others are not convinced. This caller to ABC Radio said her son was one of
Excell's victims.

LOUISE, VICTIM'S MOTHER: My son is still suffering because of that guy. He's 30-odd years of age
and he is still going through hell because of this guy and every time this guy's name comes up, it
just stirs our family up again.

MICK O'DONNELL: Robert Excell says his troubles stem from childhood. He says he was sexually abused
both in an English orphanage when he was seven and after he came to Western Australia's Fairbridge
Orphan Farm as a child migrant when he was 11.

MAXINE EXCELL: To make an offender like Bob you must first have a sensitive child in a wilderness
of indifference.

MICK O'DONNELL: Joe Tucci from the Foundation for Children in Melbourne runs diversion programs for
kids who've displayed sexually aggressive behaviour. He agrees that children who've been abused can
become abusers themselves.

JOE TUCCI, FOUNDATION FOR CHILDEN: The basic tenet is the longer you've been exposed to sexual
abuse, the longer you've been involved in perpetrating sexual abusive behaviour, the harder it is
to change because the more ingrained it is.

MICK O'DONNELL: Maxine Excell met her future husband at a group psychotherapy session while he was
on parole in 1982. Excell appeared to be dealing with his criminal past.

MAXINE EXCELL: He never understood why he offended and he embraced therapy with all his being. He'd
never had a home. Therapy was his first family.

MICK O'DONNELL: Maxine Excell had joined the therapy group to try to work out her own demons. She,
too, had been sexually abused as a child. Excell's openness convinced her it was possible to lay
the past to rest.

MAXINE EXCELL: Bob showed me it can be done. This strange, extraordinary man was to lead me back
through the Valley of Death. With Bob, it was love at first sight.

MICK O'DONNELL: You believed he was a reformed man?

MAXINE EXCELL: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we both felt he was, but our minds - we were both in such mental
chaos, we both sort of assumed. It's our deepest regrets that we did assume this.

MICK O'DONNELL: That assumption proved tragically wrong. In 1982, revisiting Fairbridge, the scene
of his childhood trauma, Excell picked up two teenage boys in his car. He was convicted of indecent
dealings and assault. Maxine Excell was deeply shocked by Excell's return to his old behaviour. But
she continued to write to him here in the old Fremantle prison.

MAXINE EXCELL: It was then that I suggested he write the story of his life from his very first
memory. Maybe then we'd find the answer to this sinister mystery.

EXCERPT FROM MEMOIR: "I didn't really want to hurt them, but there was a part of me that wanted to
see them suffer. Yet I wanted them to really love me too."

MICK O'DONNELL: In his long prison memoir, Excell began to confront his abuse as a child as well as
his own crimes. Maxine Excell paid for the private therapy he received in prison.

MAXINE EXCELL: For an hour every week he sat with Lorna, his therapist, in the prison chapel. She
was helping him acknowledge his suppressed feelings and letting them flow. As he worked through the
pain of them, relived his traumas and faced insights that most people spend their lives avoiding.

MICK O'DONNELL: What do you feel happened in this room?

MAXINE EXCELL: I feel - sorry. I feel something miraculous happened.

MICK O'DONNELL: So convinced of Excell's reform was she, that in 1983 they married in this prison

MICK O'DONNELL: Given that that time - 23 years ago - he did reoffend, what has changed in that
time that makes you believe that he won't reoffend now?

MAXINE EXCELL: He's sorted out. He's sorted out all the emotional trauma. It's hard to describe,
but he's a full man. Yeah. It won't happen.

PETE SAUNDERS: People who have served very long prison sentences like that, clearly committed very
serious crimes against children and, yeah, without monitoring, I would always be very unsure as to
whether or not they are safe or, should I say, our children are safe.

MAXINE EXCELL: Bob has been categorised as an alien in this country and because I love him, I am
one, too.

MICK O'DONNELL: For Maxine Excell, the long years of her husband's jailing were hard enough, exile
may prove even tougher.

New bowel cancer treatment offers hope for sufferers

New bowel cancer treatment offers hope for sufferers

Reporter: Natasha Johnson

KERRY O'BRIEN: Eleven thousand Australians are diagnosed with bowel cancer each year and it's one
of the top three killers. One of the difficulties in treating the disease is that symptoms often
don't appear until the cancer is well advanced and has spread to other organs. Now the Ludwig
Institute and the Austin Hospital in Melbourne are developing a potential new treatment that
involves unleashing a radiation-primed antibody into the bloodstream and sending it on a
search-and-destroy mission for colon cancer cells that have spread throughout the body. It's early
days, but trials on patients are showing promising results as Natasha Johnson reports.

NATASHA JOHNSON: As a former professional golfer, 70-year-old Jeff Giles knows all about mental
toughness. And he needed every bit of it to cope with his diagnosis of advanced colon cancer.

JEFF GILES: I was diagnosed in October of 2,000 and the prognosis was pretty frightening. It said
that if I didn't have treatment, they were sort of saying 11-12 months and if I did have treatment,
17-18 months. So it didn't get a lot better.

NATASHA JOHNSON: He had surgery to remove the primary tumour in the colon, which is the large
tubular part of the bowel, but unfortunately the cancer had also spread to his liver. Like many
sufferers, he had no early symptoms.

JEFF GILES: I'd obviously had the cancer for quite some time, but it had been brewing away slowly
and cancer is regarded amongst the medical profession as sort of the silent worker and it was
working fairly silently with me.

NATASHA JOHNSON: About 11,000 Australians are diagnosed with bowel cancer every year and 50 per
cent of them will die from the disease.

DR NIALL TEBBUTT, ONCOLOGIST, AUSTIN HOSPITAL: Well, it all really very much depends on the stage
in which the cancer is diagnosed. Sometimes cancer is diagnosed in the early stages, in which case
surgical treatment alone may be sufficient to achieve a cure. Some cases, the best chance of a cure
may come from a combination of surgery and chemotherapy treatment. But unfortunately in many cases
cancer is detected at a stage when it has already spread to other organs and usually in those
cases, it won't be possible to cure the cancer.

NATASHA JOHNSON: It's these worst-case patients who are being offered a glimmer of hope from an
experimental treatment being developed by the Ludwig Institute for Cancer Research and the Austin
Hospital in Melbourne. Patients like Jeff Giles, who've run out of conventional treatment options,
are taking part in trials of an antibody which can hunt down colon cancer cells which have spread
from the primary site.

normal immune system and can identify foreign organisms or abnormal cells in the body and can
destroy them. What we have done is taken that unique specificity of the immune system and developed
an antibody which can directly target colon cancer cells, wherever they may be in the body.

NATASHA JOHNSON: They're then using the antibody as a vehicle to deliver a dose of radiation
straight to the cancer tumour. Here's how it works. The antibody is given to the patient
intravenously and sent on a search-and-destroy mission through the blood stream. Once it finds the
colon cancer cells - in Jeff Giles's case in the liver - it unloads the radiation into the tumour.

PROFESSOR ANDREW SCOTT: So wherever those cells are in the body, the antibody can traffic and
identify them and deliver the radiation directly to the cancer cell and by doing that it avoids the
normal tissue toxicity and side effects which can often be seen with cancer therapies.

DR NIALL TEBBUTT: It's not generally possible to use radiation to treat cancers that have spread,
for instance, cancers that have spread to the lung or to the liver, because, you know, what you are
doing there, there's often multiple sites involved and what you need is an ability to direct the
radiation specifically to the tumour.

NATASHA JOHNSON: The patient then undergoes scans so researchers can track the antibody's progress
throughout the body and in Jeff Giles's case, it was mission accomplished.

PROFESSOR ANDREW SCOTT: Showing here the tumour, which is actually within the liver itself,
lighting up and having been targeted by the antibody.

NATASHA JOHNSON: So this shows you that the antibody has found its mark?


NATASHA JOHNSON: About 30 patients have undergo the tumour-targeting treatment so far. These early
trials have been primarily about testing safety and dose tolerance, so researchers didn't expect
the low levels of radiation to have an impact on such advanced tumours, but the results have been
better than they anticipated.

DR NIALL TEBBUTT: It's been encouraging to see some evidence that there is some effect on the
tumours, that we are either seeing stabilisation of tumours, stopping them growing, or achieving
some shrinkage of tumours, and that's obviously encouraging. I think it is obviously important to
say we've only treated a small number of patients and it's very early days in the development of
this agent.

NATASHA JOHNSON: Jeff Giles is one of the lucky ones.

PROFESSOR ANDREW SCOTT: Jeff had this particular tumour you can see here in his liver shrink,
following the treatment itself, and this has, in fact, remained at that state for the last 12
months. So that's a very encouraging result for us.

NATASHA JOHNSON: Would he be one of your better results?

PROFESSOR ANDREW SCOTT: He's certainly one of our star patients.

NATASHA JOHNSON: These promising results have been enough to convince America's National Institutes
of Health to award a grant of $325,000 for further clinical trials combining chemotherapy with the
antibody treatment, although it's likely to be several years before the therapy is available for
widespread use. But it's already made a difference for Jeff Giles and his family - five more years
of life than he expected.

JEFF GILES: I'm so thankful that I've got involved. I mean, I might not get the final answer or a
cure, but, boy, it's given me five years, just on, of extra time. I mean, I thought at the time,
"God, am I gonna reach 70?" I had my 70th birthday in April. Am I going to go overseas again? Just
come back. What can I say? I'm a willing guinea pig and I'm very willing to go along with it.

KERRY O'BRIEN: A story on which we hope the good news keeps coming.

AFL honours Indigenous contribution

AFL honours Indigenous contribution

Reporter: Mike Sexton

KERRY O'BRIEN: It took a long time for Australian Rules football to wake up to the potential of
Indigenous players at the elite level. Indigenous players now make up nearly 10 per cent of the AFL
and those figures are expected to grow. But you have to wonder why until the late '80s very few
made it to the top. Now, in recognition of their contribution to the game, the AFL has today named
an Indigenous team of the 20th Century from a squad of 35 greats. Mike Sexton reports on the career
of one of those players who has been out of the headlines for 40 years, but whose impact on the
game remains undiminished.

IAN DAY, FORMER SOUTH AUSTRALIAN PLAYER: It's the great reflexes that make Aboriginal footballers
very exciting.

MIKE SEXTON: Historians are divided as to who invented Australian Rules football, but almost
everyone agrees, Aboriginal players have reinvented it.

KEVIN SHEEDY, ESSENDON FOOTBALL COACH: They offer an alternative called vision. They kick a ball
into the space and make their team-mate run into it.

MIKE SEXTON: Today, the AFL celebrated the special qualities by naming an Indigenous team of the
20th century. Amid those honoured, is a man very few AFL fans have ever heard of, but one who paved
the way for the modern game.

IAN DAY: When he first came down South Adelaide was a lowly club. It was bottom of the premiership
table and going absolutely nowhere.

MIKE SEXTON: In 1961 South Adelaide was the doormat of South Australian league football. and was
desperate for quality players. In a radical move officials went to Darwin to see a Tiwi Islander
named Amparralamtua, whose English name was David Kantilla.

TED EGAN, FOUNDER ST MARY'S FOOTBALL CLUB: They wanted a particular type of footballer. They wanted
a tall ruckman and they saw Kantilla and said, "That's him."

MIKE SEXTON: David Kantilla was instantly noticed down south and not because he was the first Tiwi
man to play in the league. At 194cm, he was athletic and had skill to burn.

TED EGAN: I'll forever see the photo of him in his first game in Adelaide. He was above a pack and
taking the ball from them and way over the heads and the headline was "Canterlevered."

MIKE SEXTON: David Kantilla was judged South Adelaide's Best and Fairest player in his first two
seasons. He played for the state and in 1964 was best afield as the Panthers won their first
premiership in 26 years.

COMMENTATOR: In towards goal. There it goes through.

MIKE SEXTON: Ian Day roved at the feet of David Kantilla for four seasons and helped give him his
nickname "Soapy" because of his love of a long, hot bath after a cold game. He remembers the
restrictions placed on Tiwi Islander by the NT chief welfare officer, including no drinking or

IAN DAY: It was extremely difficult because the Souths players after training on Sunday morning
liked to sit around the changerooms and play probably two-bob poker in those days (20 cent poker)
and David would look over the shoulder and he badly wanted to sit on same trestles as the guy and
play the game, and the players had to fob him off.

MIKE SEXTON: David Kantilla's wife also came to Adelaide, but was deeply homesick.

TED EGAN: His wife was a deaf mute whose 'finguistics' would only be worked out in Tiwi terms so
she wouldn't have been able to communicate with anyone else other than David during the six or
seven years that he was in Adelaide, and I think it's the most remarkable aspect of his adventure
was that he was a companion to her and looked after her.

MIKE SEXTON: In 1967, David Kantilla returned to Darwin to coach the St Mary's Football Club. While
others followed his path to South Australia in the mid-1970s he opened the door for Indigenous
players to taste the competition, Victorian League Football.

KEVIN SHEEDY: I went there in 1974 and met a guy called David Kantilla who'd come from up there in
the islands. I actually promised him that if I ever became a coach I'd take a team up there, and
they helped me with that promise. They rang within 12 months of me becoming coach and said, "You

MIKE SEXTON: Kevin Sheedy is one of the most decorated coaches in AFL history, and one of the
hallmarks of his 25-year reign as Essendon coach has been his championing of Indigenous players.

KEVIN SHEEDY: And I think in general it's been good for the whole country because I think when we
look at it we've got probably half a million Aboriginal people, and we think that there's a lot
more talent there.

MIKE SEXTON: In 1993 the Bombers won the AFL premiership and their best player was Michael Long,
who'd been recruited from David Kantilla's old club, St Mary's.

KEVIN SHEEDY: He was like a matador with the bull, saying, "Well, if you want me, come and get me.
I ain't moving forward, but I've got plenty of space to back pedal." It was sort of like a Pele
with a soccer ball.

MIKE SEXTON: Michael Long also helped change football with his campaign against racial abuse. In
1995, the AFL became the first sporting competition in the country to adopt a specific rule
relating to racial abuse.

MICHAEL LONG, CHAIRMAN, AFL INDIGENOUS FOUNDATION: There's so many different cultures actually
playing within each club now, so there's a bit more understanding and respect but also that
education process has made a huge difference, and it's made a huge impact to the community as well.
And AFL being the main game in Australia and everyone watching and following it, it's impacted and
filtered down to the community as well.

KEVIN SHEEDY: It was important for this country and I think it was important for football. It was
important that a young person to come down as a very shy young man, to see him grow into that
decision was pretty powerful.

MIKE SEXTON: Today, Michael Long was honoured by being named in the Indigenous team of the century.
David Kantilla also made the team but was only there in spirit. He was killed in a car accident in
1978, leaving behind a legend both as a player and as a pioneer.

MICHAEL LONG: On a scale of what he's achieved and as a player and a person, like, he's been a
trailblazer that certainly made a pathway and inspiration for so many kids that actually now do
play in the AFL.