Note: Where available, the PDF/Word icon below is provided to view the complete and fully formatted document
Disclaimer: The Parliamentary Library does not warrant or accept liability for the accuracy or usefulness of the transcripts.These are copied directly from the broadcaster's website.
7.30 Report -

View in ParlViewView other Segments

Big business and science joining forces to save one of Australia's most valuable natural treasures.

This is a first worldwide.

This is real, we've

Govt considers more troops for Afghanistan

Govt considers more troops for Afghanistan

Reporter: Michael Brissenden

KERRY O'BRIEN: As Britain ponders Prime Minister Tony Blair's decision to withdraw 1,600 troops
from Iraq in the near future, with more to come out later in the year and with another ally in
southern Iraq, Denmark, announcing it too is coming out this year, Prime Minister John Howard
continues to hold firm on Australia's troop presence. Not only will another 70 military personnel
be sent to bolster the 550 strong Australian force in the south, but the Government is now actively
considering sending up to hundreds more to Afghanistan. And with Labor leader Kevin Rudd claiming
vindication for his promise to bring Australian troops back from Iraq if elected, the rhetorical
bullets were flying thicker than ever in the political war back home. Political Editor Michael
Brissenden reports.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: In Iraq, even through the fog of war, the politics has always been clearly
visible. The coalition of the willing was in lock step behind George Bush.

AMERICAN SOLDIER: There you go. That's a moneymaker right there. You've got to aim higher.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: But as the President's troops surge in Baghdad, his popularity continues to
sink at home and some of his friends are becoming increasingly less willing.

TONY BLAIR, UK PRIME MINISTER: Already we have handed over prime responsibility for security to the
Iraqi authorities in al Muthanna and Dhi Qar. Now in Basra over the coming months we will transfer
more of the responsibility directly to Iraqis.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The question the analysts and the pundits are asking is, is this a sign of
success or a retreat? The coalition partners say it's the former.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, US SECRETARY OF STATE: No, the coalition remains intact and, in fact, the British
still have thousands of soldiers deployed in Iraq in the south, and any decisions that they make
are going to be on the basis of conditions.

JOHN HOWARD, PRIME MINISTER: This suggestion that because the British are reducing from 7,200 to
5,200, that that equals withdrawal or equals the setting of a firm timetable for the total
withdrawal of British forces from Iraq is wrong. Mr Rudd is asserting that, but he's wrong again.
What the British have done is to reduce the number of people they have there, because they believe
the circumstances warrant that.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Whatever you call it a reduction, a withdrawal or simply a redeployment the
timing of Tony Blair's decision is a political embarrassment for his international allies,
particularly here, where ever since Mr Howard's attack on Barack Obama and the Democrats' proposals
for withdrawal, Iraq has been back as a front line domestic political issue and the Government has
spent the past week and a half warning of the disastrous consequences of any precipitate

JOHN HOWARD: If participant governments in the coalition start nominating dates by which forces are
going to be withdrawn, what they are doing is inviting our enemies, inviting the terrorists in
Iraq, to persist with the destabilisation and the mayhem and the bloodshed in the certain knowledge
that, ultimately, the nerve will be lost and ultimately a withdrawal will take place. Now, the
Leader of the Opposition knows that.

KEVIN RUDD, OPPOSITION LEADER: What Mr Howard has been trying to argue is that any removal of
Australian forces equals some victory to terrorists. Well, let's just put this into a bit of
context. 520 combat forces, they come out under our plan, out of a total force within the region of
some 1,400 Australians. Mr Blair is announcing, we understand, the withdrawal of some 2,000 to
3,000 British troops out of a total force of 7,000 British troops. And so my action, according to
Mr Howard, is a victory to terrorists, but Mr Blair's action is entirely consistent with Australian
Government policy. I'd be interested to understand Mr Howard's logic which defends that argument.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Like George Bush, John Howard is becoming increasingly isolated on Iraq.
Australia's contribution is a small one. But 70 extra troops is more than a 10% increase and the US
and Australia are the only members of the coalition actually increasing troop deployments. But Tony
Blair says Britain can reduce its presence because the situation in Basra is very different from
Baghdad. There is no Sunni insurgency in Basra, he says. There's no al Qaeda base and there is
little Shi'a on Sunni violence. The situation for Australia's 550 strong contingent in nearby
Tallil is much the same, although the Diggers face considerably less day to day hostility than the
British in Basra. But Mr Howard remains resolute; despite, or perhaps because of, the increasing
domestic political pressure, there will be no withdrawal of Australian troops.

JOHN HOWARD: And the idea that you can go on reducing from a very low number and retain both safety
and operational effectiveness is false, and Mr Rudd must know that. I mean, there's all the world
of difference between reducing from 7,200 to 5,200 and reducing from 550 to what? To 300, to 200?

KEVIN RUDD: The question Australians would like to have answered from Mr Howard is, if it's OK, in
Mr Howard's view, for the Danes to pull out some 460 troops from Iraq, why is it not OK for 520
Australian troops to be brought home to Australia some time next year?

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The British decision to reduce its focus on Iraq and increase its presence in
Afghanistan echoes the recommendations of the Baker Hamilton Report that says continued involvement
in Iraq limits the military capability to effectively fight the war in Afghanistan. But the
Australian Government believes the two battles are one and the same.

BRENDAN NELSON, DEFENCE MINISTER: The same people that are causing all of the problems in
Afghanistan are the same people that are causing the problems in Iraq. We're fighting the same
people in two different places. That's got them off balance and most importantly, if we've got them
off balance in their own backyard they can't get on the front foot in ours.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The Australian government is also examining the need to increase our presence
in Afghanistan, a move supported by the Labor Party. But with everyone trying to claim the
political high ground, the argument over troop deployments, withdrawals or reductions has become a
semantic minefield. And that's not the only one. Tomorrow, Mr Howard will look to take control of
the other big political battle at the moment water. The States come to Canberra with as many views
on that one as there are on ending the war in Iraq. The Prime Minister wants agreement on his $10
billion plan. Some, like NSW, do support it. Others have alternatives they want discussed, and one
- Victoria - appears to have withdrawn altogether. Or perhaps Mr Bracks might describe his position
as simply a case of reduced enthusiasm?

KERRY O'BRIEN: Michael Brissenden there, political editor.

Evidence mounts of WA ex-premier's influence

Evidence mounts of WA ex-premier's influence

Reporter: Hamish Fitzsimmons

KERRY O'BRIEN: Western Australia's Corruption and Crime Commission has again embarrassed the
State's Labor Government, with more hearings into the business dealings of disgraced former Premier
turned lobbyist Brian Burke. The evidence, including detailed conversations recorded in phone taps,
continues to mount up of Brian Burke's influence, from local councillors to Cabinet ministers.
Today, another minister, Tony McCray, was caught up in a scandal, when the Commission was told he
reversed a planning decision, which made the outcome favourable to a Burke client. Premier Alan
Carpenter has cut short an overseas trip to deal with the fallout. The State Opposition hasn't
escaped unscathed, either. This report from Hamish Fitzsimmons in Perth.

HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: After three months it remained the hottest ticket in town the West Australian
Corruption and Crime Commission hearings into the wheeling and dealing of one former Premier turned
lobbyist, Brian Burke. From Government ministers and mayors, councillors and property developers,
wealthy landowners and spin doctors; deal by deal, the Commission has unravelled Brian Burke's vice
like grip of influence on so many of the State's leading players.

PROF DAVID BLACK, CURTIN UNIVERSITY: Brian Burke's influence which we all thought was substantial
is, in fact, extremely substantial and it's amazing just how far-reaching it is and how pervasive
it's been.

HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: So pervasive, in fact, that the former Labor Premier was puppet master to not
only to many Labor colleagues but Liberals, as well. Yesterday, the Commission heard secretly
recorded conversations of Brian Burke bragging that he was paying former Liberal Party powerbroker
Noel Crichton Browne $2,000 a month to lobby State Liberals on his behalf.

BRIAN BURKE (RECORDING): I'll speak to Crichton-Browne. I haven't sent all the stuff through from
you from Crichton-Browne. He got it put on the agenda of the shadow cabinet and the shadow cabinet
has agreed to make it one of its policy priorities.

HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: Since his Lazarus like re emergence from the public disgrace of the WA Inc
scandals, Brian Burke has been anointed by local businessmen as the lobbyist of choice when
bureaucratic red tape gets in the way of a good deal and, by all accounts, he can move mountains.

TED SMITH: Everybody is jealous of his ability.

HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: The Irish millionaire and landowner Ted Smith could only speak in glowing terms
of Burke's prowess as a lobbyist. Describing him as 'the great man', he employed the former Premier
to rescue a protracted deal and says the job was done in a matter of months and all it cost him was
$2,500 a month and a block of land.

DAVID BLACK: Brian Burke has to be seen as the political lobbyist par excellence in the sense that
he is perhaps more likely than most to be able to achieve whatever it is he claims that he will do
for you.

HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: And for anyone wanting a glimpse of the breadth and depth of Mr Burke's power,
they need to look no further than the Wanneroo Shire Council. Here, Mr Burke's influence extended
all the way to Deputy Mayor Sam Salpietro, who gave Mr Burke an inside running on confidential
issues before the Council. The Commission heard that Mr Salpietro would do anything demanded of him
by Mr Burke. Council agendas were rejigged to benefit Mr Burkes' clients, and Mr Salpietro
organized council staff to meet Mr Burke at a moment's notice.

IAN GOODENOUGH, WANNEROO COUNCILLOR: There's always that sort of betrayal of trust, which put me in
a very awkward position.

HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: Long time Liberal Party member and Wanneroo councillor Ian Goodenough learnt
the hard way how he became a Burke patsy. Unwittingly, under pressure from Mr Salpietro, he moved
an amendment to the local planning act, not knowing his action would favour a Burke client.

IAN GOODENOUGH: I felt very embarrassed. Had I known that Brian Burke was involved with this
drafting of the amendment I would have, you know, not moved it.

HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: In reward for his loyalty, the hearings were told Mr Burke offered to boost Mr
Salpietro's career. In a bugged phone conversation between Mr Burke and Peter Clough, a newly
appointed council administrator, Mr Burke asked Mr Clough for help in securing a position for his
trusted friend. But the biggest bombshell came when the former Premier was heard boasting in
recorded phone conversations that he could rely on at least two West Australian Government
ministers to provide him with confidential Cabinet information. Tapes played to the Commission but
not released to the media heard Burke saying he could have one minister's "pants off him and work
on his shirt, and he doesn't even know". Mr Burke's latest evidence poses another political
headache for the Carpenter Government. In previous hearings the Corruption and Crime Commission has
claimed the scalp of Carpenter minister Norm Marlborough, who was forced to resign after phone taps
revealed how he'd give his old friend Brian Burke regular updates on Cabinet business.

DAVID BLACK: In the case of Brian Burke and Norm Marlborough we have direct evidence in so many
ways that Norm Marlborough's actions were governed by what Brian Burke said.

HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: Now the man with the ever present Panama hat has given the almost farcical
defence " I made it all up", claiming that, despite what he told Norm Marlborough, he has no inside
knowledge of Cabinet discussions.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Hamish Fitzsimmons with that report.

Govts lied about Balibo Five deaths, inquest hears

Govts lied about Balibo Five deaths, inquest hears

Reporter: Emma Alberici

KERRY O'BRIEN: It's been 32 years since the deaths of the Balibo Five, five Australian based
journalists killed during the Indonesian invasion of East Timor. Seven inquiries later, there's
still no definitive finding as to the manner and cause of their deaths. A coronial inquest in
Sydney is attempting to bring some finality to the story. For the first time, evidence from
eyewitnesses is being heard in an independent, open courtroom. And it's emerged as an explosive
affair, with the highest ranks of the Indonesian military alleged to have ordered the murders of
the men. Today the coronial inquest into the death of one of the men, Brian Peters, heard
disturbing evidence from two former senior Government officials who told the court they believed
Australian governments had lied for three decades about the circumstances of the men's deaths. Emma
Alberici reports.

MAUREEN TOLFREE: I was like a mother to my brothers and if I don't fight for him, who will?

EMMA ALBERICI: It's been 32 years since Maureen Tolfree lost her brother Brian Peters who, along
with four other journalists, was killed during the Indonesian invasion of East Timor. 32 years, and
countless lies about the circumstances surrounding his death.

MAUREEN TOLFREE: The Australian Government and the British Government just don't want to know. They
would rather it went away. But unfortunately, the families won't let the story go away.

EMMA ALBERICI: It took the efforts of this one woman from Bristol, England to convince the NSW
Coroner to conduct an inquest, the first fully independent inquiry into the Balibo deaths in a
judicial setting where witnesses can be examined and cross examined in an open court.

MAUREEN TOLFREE: The fact that I've got there is a Coroner's inquiry is a milestone in my life.
Perhaps it's just the start.

EMMA ALBERICI: What do you hope it achieves?

MAUREEN TOLFREE: To find out the truth.

GREG SHACKLETON (ARCHIVE FOOTAGE): The emotion here last night was so strong that we all three of

EMMA ALBERICI: Greg Shackleton was reporting for Channel 7 when he was killed alongside the four
other Australian based journalists in Balibo in 1975. He left behind an eight year old son and a
widow who is as passionate as ever about establishing the facts of his death.

SHIRLEY SHACKLETON: I'm bloody minded. They're not going to kill my husband and get away with it.
He was my best friend. They're not going to do that.

EMMA ALBERICI: Manuel Gaspar Da Silva is one of the East Timorese witnesses at the inquest. He was
only 16 but vividly remembers meeting the Australians in Balibo.

MANUEL GASPAR DA SILVA (TRANSLATION): They were using their cameras to film the Indonesian warships
in the sea.

EMMA ALBERICI: He was retreating from the area when the journalists were killed, but recalls seeing
the men's bodies being dragged into the town square. At the end of his testimony, he turned to the
Coroner and said he believed the journalists were martyrs for East Timor.

MANUEL GASPAR DA SILVA (TRANSLATION): Because their death gave a lot of attention to the
international community of the Indonesian occupation and then all of the long years of struggle.

EMMA ALBERICI: Maureen Tolfree has been overwhelmed by the support of the Timorese witnesses in
this case. For three weeks she's endured emotional eyewitness accounts of the Balibo Five with
their hands in the air, identifying themselves as Australian journalists to the invading forces
before being shot or stabbed at close range.

EMMA ALBERICI: How did you feel about meeting Maureen Tolfree, the sister of Brian Peters?

MANUEL GASPAR DA SILVA (TRANSLATION): I felt emotional, because I was with her brother at that time
and we couldn't do anything to save them.

EMMA ALBERICI: Today there were more revelations from a former senior Australian public servant. In
1975, George Brownbill was secretary of the Hope Royal Commission into Australia's intelligence
services, and was responsible for recording proceedings. He told the court he saw a radio intercept
at the Shoal Bay receiving station in Darwin. It was a translated message from an Indonesian
soldier in Balibo to his military commander in Jakarta on the day of the Balibo deaths. It read,
"As directed or in accordance with your instructions, the five journalists have been located and
shot." George Brownbill didn't keep a copy of the intelligence; it was subpoenaed, but never
provided to the court. When asked how he felt about the families of the Balibo Five, George
Brownbill said: "From time to time I was distressed by their distress, knowing what was known by
the Australian government but not known to them might have been of assistance to them... knowing also
it was not my place to blow any whistles."

RICHARD WOOLCOTT, AUST AMBASSADOR TO INDONESIA 1975-78: In my view the people who are principally
responsible for their deaths are the managements of Channel Nine and Seven; they should never have
been sent there, into that sort of situation.

EMMA ALBERICI: Australia's ambassador in Jakarta at the time, Richard Woolcott, attended the men's
funeral in Indonesia. Three days before the Balibo attack, he sent a cable to the Prime Minister
Gough Whitlam warning him of the pending Indonesian operation and asking him to make sure there
were no Australians in the area, but he says he got no response.

RICHARD WOOLCOTT: Nobody at the embassy that I know of, and that includes myself and the senior
political staff, had any knowledge, any idea that there were Australian journalists in that area at
the time.

EMMA ALBERICI: They were transmitting footage back to Australia?


EMMA ALBERICI: They had transmitted vision of painting the house in Balibo with the Australian


EMMA ALBERICI: It was very public that they were there.

RICHARD WOOLCOTT: Yeah, but in those days communications weren't like they were now. We had no
knowledge of that.

JILL JOLLIFFE: I don't believe that anybody should just be able to kill journalists and get away
with it, no matter how many years pass. They have to be called to account for it.

EMMA ALBERICI: Journalist Jill Jolliffe was in East Timor and met the five Australians only days
before their deaths. For the past three decades, it's been her mission to discover the truth. As
this amateur video shows, Jill Jolliffe has returned to Balibo Square with key witnesses to record
their version of events. Some of those witnesses have also given evidence in this coronial inquest.

JILL JOLLIFFE: The motive was very clear from the Timorese eyewitnesses who testified to the court.
The journalists had filmed a great deal of the attack at the time they were killed. That was
evidence which was, would have convinced the world that an invasion was under way into East Timor
and it was, therefore, imperative that that evidence should not get out. They were the first
journalists to get that incontrovertible evidence of an invasion under way.

EMMA ALBERICI: Why the need to delve into the issue yet again?

MAUREEN TOLFREE: Because there's not been a full judicial inquiry where witnesses are brought into
a court of law and been able to give their evidence without fear of their lives. And as far as I'm
concerned, those people are murderers, so they should be brought to justice.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Evidence that's been a long time coming. Emma Alberici with that report.

Business leaders launch reef fund

Business leaders launch reef fund

Reporter: Peter McCutcheon

KERRY O'BRIEN: Some of Australia's most respected business leaders are throwing their weight behind
a campaign to save the Great Barrier Reef from the ravages of climate change. They've launched a
new fund called zoox, aimed at raising money for new practical research into ways of protecting the
reef from coral bleaching. The fund illustrates how far the business community has moved over the
recent past on climate change. Peter McCutcheon reports.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: John Schubert is on a remarkable journey. The former oil industry executive and
climate change sceptic still sits on the boards of some of Australia's biggest companies. But he
also spends time these days to campaign for the Great Barrier Reef. Or, more specifically, saving
the reef from the ravages of coral bleaching.

more than about 30 days, the coral will die.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: Coral bleaching has become a call to arms for a growing number of business
leaders. And they're joining forces with leading scientists in an attempt to save the reef.

PROF OVE HOEGH-GULDBERG, MARINE STUDIES, QLD UNIVERSITY: This is an economic issue. Now the science
is done, if you're really somebody who remains a sceptic, well, there are places for flat-earthers,
but now we're onto the solutions.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: Australia's Great Barrier Reef is the largest and probably the healthiest coral
habitat in the world. But this environmental showcase is under threat from rising temperatures,
which disturb zooxanthellae, the tiny organisms inside coral that give it both life and colour.
This process occurred around the Keppel Islands last year, resulting in widespread coral bleaching.
The coral here will take years to recover and some of it will die.

OVE HOEGH-GULDBERG: I think climate is really the big challenge. It's changing far more rapidly I
think than people anticipated 10 or 20 years ago and I think it is now at the top of the agenda.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: When he's not chairing the board of the Commonwealth Bank, John Schubert
occasionally spends time with Marine scientists off Heron Island.

JOHN SCHUBERT: This water is just fantastic.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: It's part of his job as chairman of the Great Barrier Reef Foundation, a
fundraiser for reef research. But when the former managing director of Esso took on the role two
years ago, he admits he was something of a climate change sceptic.

JOHN SCHUBERT: I think my mind was gradually changing over time. But the science has become more
certain over the last number of years.

OVE HOEGH-GULDBERG: When I first met John I think there was healthy scepticism.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: Professor Ove Hoegh Guldberg is one of a number of leading coral scientists who
regularly advise the foundation.

OVE HOEGH-GULDBERG: I think you've got a very valid point, we just don't want to forget the rest
but the rest is actually the solution.

OVE HOEGH-GULDBERG: John didn't take long to, I think, see the facts for what they were and then to
move very rapidly forward and then at a blinding pace, really.

JOHN SCHUBERT: There's no question that the interaction with the scientists and the sharing of that
sort of information that they had with me caused a very sudden and rapid belief that no, this is

JUDY STEWART, CEO, GREAT BARRIER REEF FOUNDATION: I just want to be clear about where we're coming
from with climate change. Climate change will be the motivator for people to get involved in this.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: The Great Barrier Reef Foundation's chief executive, Judy Stewart, says she's
noticed a shift in the business community's attitude towards global warming.

JUDY STEWART: I've seen a spectacular change. It's become the topic of not just that people are
talking about, but that they're concerned about and feeling helpless about, I think.

JUDY STEWART: We have on our doorstep the most pristine reef in the world.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: Taking advantage of this change, the foundation today launched a new fund with
backing from companies such as KPMG, the Commonwealth Bank and the Myer Foundation. It's called
Zoox after the tiny zooxanthellae in coral that play a key role in bleaching events.

JUDY STEWART: It seemed to me if the zooxanthellae was gone, the reef was gone. So Zoox is the
first syllable of that very long word and I'm hoping that zooxanthellae will be the name that every
child in Australia knows.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: The fund will initially bankroll research into mapping which sections of the reef
are more resistent to the ravages of bleaching.

JOHN SCHUBERT: We need to make sure those areas of the reef don't suffer other threats from poor
water quality or from overfishing. So it really allows practical outcomes to be taken from the
results of that sort of research.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: It's the start of a new, powerful relationship.

OVE HOEGH-GULDBERG: This is really a first world wide, where we're starting to push into some very
interesting areas where you combine science and business together.

PETER MCCUTCHEON: John Schubert's interest in climate change doesn't stop with the reef. He's
recently become an advocate for a carbon trading scheme, in order to rein in harmful emissions. But
he sees the threat to the colour and majesty of this environmental wonder as an ideal motivator for

PETER MCCUTCHEON: To what extent do you think your journey from a climate change sceptic to a
global warming campaigner is indicative of the general Australian business community?

JOHN SCHUBERT: I think it's probably quite indicative. This is real. We've got to do something
about it.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Peter McCutcheon.

Clarke, Dawe and Rudd

Clarke, Dawe and Rudd

Reporter: John Clarke and Bryan Dawe

KERRY O'BRIEN: And now, John Clarke and Bryan Dawe on tour with Kevin Rudd.

BRYAN DAWE: Mr Rudd, would you mind sitting down, please. Thank you for your time.

JOHN CLARKE: Just signing a few autographs for the boys.


JOHN CLARKE: Thank you very much, are you coming to the concert? Come to the concert on Saturday,
if you get a minute. I'll give you a backstage pass. Come round later, we'll duck out, we'll get on
the turps for a bit, it'll be good. You should come, too, Bryan.

BRYAN DAWE: I want to conduct the interview, if you don't mind.

JOHN CLARKE: Certainly.

BRYAN DAWE: Things are going well?

JOHN CLARKE: You jest, surely, Bryan. Things have never gone better. Things are going absolutely
gangbusters just at the moment.

BRYAN DAWE: Your popularity is astonishing?

JOHN CLARKE: I don't know about astonishing.

BRYAN DAWE: It's high. It's obviously high.

JOHN CLARKE: I'm not astonished.

BRYAN DAWE: Would you stop taking photographs, I'm trying to conduct an interview. Can you go out
into the foyer afterwards.

JOHN CLARKE: No photos for a bit, please.

BRYAN DAWE: Can you close the bloody door. I'm trying to conduct an interview. Shane, get the door

JOHN CLARKE: Rock on, Brenda! There you go.

BRYAN DAWE: Mr Rudd, do you mind.

JOHN CLARKE: Tell her, any chemist will make that up.

BRYAN DAWE: Are you ready?

JOHN CLARKE: I've been ready for about two years, didn't have the opportunity.

BRYAN DAWE: You've described the Prime Minister as a security risk?

JOHN CLARKE: I don't really see the problem there myself, Bryan.

BRYAN DAWE: He's furious?

JOHN CLARKE: Yeah, it's got plenty of advantages, Bryan. I just don't see the downside.

BRYAN DAWE: Mr Rudd, do you think it's appropriate to describe the Prime Minister of our country as
a security risk?

JOHN CLARKE: Is it appropriate for him to describe a United States' presidential candidate as a
security risk, Bryan? What are the rules here? Let's get a handle on what we're talking about.

BRYAN DAWE: In what sense is he a security risk?

JOHN CLARKE: He's taken us into one of the great silly military adventures in recent history,
Bryan, which we were told was to do with fighting terrorism. It is engendering terrorism. I don't
want to worry anybody, but Afghanistan is going off again.

BRYAN DAWE: What are you proposing?

JOHN CLARKE: I'm proposing to answer your question, Bryan. I'm making every attempt to do so.

BRYAN DAWE: What do you think Australia should do, is my question?

JOHN CLARKE: We've got to have a pretty serious think. We've got to look a few facts in the face.
We're facing an environmental crisis that personally I don't think is going to be solved by
changing a few lightbulbs in 2009. We are involved in a colossal military adventure we're a puppy,
what do we get in reward? They've nicked our wheat market. Iraq used to be Australia's biggest
wheat market.

BRYAN DAWE: Mr Howard says you're full of yourself?

JOHN CLARKE: In sharp contrast with himself, presumably. We've got a self effacing egomaniac for a
Prime Minister, now, have we?

BRYAN DAWE: Kevin Rudd, thank you for your time.

JOHN CLARKE: The time, grasshopper, is not mine. The time belongs to all of us.

tonight and the week. Don't forget Stateline tomorrow night. We'll be back with the 7.30 Report on
Monday. Goodnight.