Note: Where available, the PDF/Word icon below is provided to view the complete and fully formatted document
Disclaimer: The Parliamentary Library does not warrant the accuracy of closed captions. These are derived automatically from the broadcaster's signal.
7.30 Report -

View in ParlViewView other Segments

(generated from captions) its aid effort As the world galvanises to help the stricken survivors, increasingly frustrated and angry the people of Pakistan are becoming with their government over its handling of the disaster. is stretched to the limit The Pakistani military machine are still to receive and more than a million people

and shelter vital supplies of medicine, food by the quake. in the remote regions hardest hit is growing by the minute In addition, a health crisis the clock to bury the dead. as authorities race against has filed this report ABC correspondent Matt Brown

from the centre of the devastation the Himalayas. around the foothills of

These hills at the foot of the

Himalayan range are home to a stoic

people. For generations they've

overcome poverty and hardship, but

nature has dealt them ad and struck

down. Mothers are crying. A lot of

people get on to the walls and they

are injured. The earthquake

measured 7.6 on the ribter scale

has wiped out whole communities in measured 7.6 on the ribter scale and

Pakistan's north and in

Pakistan-controlled Kashmir. Many

bodies have been buried in the

rubble. Devastation so complete the

corpses may never be recovered. But

so many others need to be buried

instead are lying? The open. A so many others need to be buried and

health crisis that gets worse by

minute. In a butter bag just south health crisis that gets worse by the

of the epicentre of the quake, the

low rise buildings about town fell

to Earth as if smacked down by a

giant's hand killing many of those

within. TRANSLATION: Everyone

really afraid. They couldn't within. TRANSLATION: Everyone was

understand what was happen understand what was happen

understand what was happening, like

this was an act of God. Pakistan's

president has pleaded with the

to send help to Pakistan. And in a president has pleaded with the world

significant thawing of emotions

accepted a small amount of aid from significant thawing of emotions he's

neighbouring India. While

military has swung its air neighbouring India. While Pakistan's

machine into action, they're still military has swung its air transport

far too thinly stretched to reach

those desperately in need in these

mountainous region and the means to

deliver help to those who need help

itself is in desperately short

supply. Pakistanis have been making

their own massive donations and

sending their own household goods

and food to the devastated villages

up in the hills. Perhaps the most

precious commodity is also coming

straight from the people of

Pakistan. A blood drive is under

to meet a desperate need. The Pakistan. A blood drive is under way

capital Islamabad has not escaped

the disaster. In sector of the city

labelled F 10 a mountain of rubble

is all that's left of the apartment

block that once stood in its place.

Rescuers from Pakistan and around

the world are still engaged in the

grewsome task of saving the living

and locating the dead. But we have

help. Wing Khursehid has set about

making a list of those who are

thought to be inside and the

number of those they know have been thought to be inside and the growing

killed. In such a crisis even riff

time is a hard time, but we have to

give the last drop of blood to save

my people. Faith and determination

are all that's keeping some of

people going. This person has been are all that's keeping some of these

forced to confront the fact that

many in her community are already

dead. We found about my friend's

dad. They identified his body. We

don't know anything about the rest.

My younger sister's friend died hex

was 17. But, she still believes

boyfriend will be brought out alive. was 17. But, she still believes her

Yes, definitely, he's a very tough

guy. Yes, we're hoping. The

rescuers are hoping that somewhere,

deeper inside one of those voids,

human life endures and occasionally

amidst the dim and desperation of

the rescue effort, there is a

where the almost impossible seems the rescue effort, there is a moment

true. The work stops. The noise

stops. The rescuers pray for sounds

of life. A lot of people still

him. We found three survivors of life. A lot of people still miss

yesterday and rescued them. We've

got one possible person, but we're

having trouble actually pinpointing

exactly where they are. As each

passes, the chances of survival dim exactly where they are. As each day

but they're not yet extinguished.

People survive so you never give in.

I'm sure in the next few days we'll

yield results. This is a rescue

effort far more intense and better

resourced than the dying and

being treated in the northern resourced than the dying and wounded

regional centres can hope for.

In the cities and founds of

northern Pakistan the authorities

were overwhelmed. 13 people were

pulled alive from this building.

the neighbours say one or two more pulled alive from this building. But

are probably lying dead beneath the

rubble. Some of the surrounding

villages have been devastated and

there thousands lie dead. The true

scale of this disaster is only now

being discovered. The local

hospital has been overwhelmed by

influx of casualties from the

surrounding districts. The wounded

lying huge tents open to the air.

People with broken bones and head

wounds, bewildered and uncertain of

their fate. The children are not

only ones who can't comprehend their fate. The children are not the

what's occurred. Most

what's occurred. Mostly they don't

know what has happen

know what has happened. Just

remember there's been an art quick

and everything has been destroyed

and they don't know what's happened

to them. Aid coordinator Mehboob

Elahi says when many of the quake

victims emerge from days of

unconsciousness, a whole new pain

revealed to them. They are asking unconsciousness, a whole new pain is

about their relatives, about their

homes, but no-one knows what's

happened to them because the whole

villages and towns have been

destroyed. There isn't anything

there. Everything has been destroyed. There isn't anything left

there. It's the sort of there. Everything has been destroyed

no camera will ever really capture there. It's the sort of devastation

and it's one that few can claim to

know how to repair.

A devastation That report from Matt A That report from Matt Brown.

A devastation that That report from A devastation that will come That A devastation that will That report

for That report from Matt Brown. A devastation that will come

Brown. to come. for woks That report from Matt Australian baby bombers It was sold as a scheme to give a more comfortable retirement. was sell their home All investors had to do to the "money for living" company

guaranteed lifetime tenancy, and in return they would be monthly payments. a lump sum and regular by swimming legend Dawn Fraser Spruiked in radio and television ads and veteran actor Paul Cronin, those who were asset rich, it seemed like a great idea for but cash poor. But now the company has gone broke and it's been revealed that one of the founders spent 3 years in jail for fraud - information that came too late for a large group of creditors, including elderly retirees, who are wondering if they've lost the family home. Geoff Hutchison reports. RADIO ANNOUNCER: In Melbourne, it's 14 degrees. I'm Andrea Edwards for 3AW, your Commonwealth Games station. Initially I used to go to bed early, just lay in bed and listen to 3AW on the radio, and I heard the advertisement from Paul Cronin and Dawn Fraser. They were advertising about this Money for Living, and I sort of listened over a couple of nights and heard the same ad. Then I had actually noticed it on the TV as well

and I thought, you know, it might be worthwhile looking into. TV COMMERCIAL: You might be watching now because you don't have the money to do anything else. They were household names selling opportunity to Australia's baby boomers, to people who owned their own homes, who were asset-rich but cash poor. Money for Living is giving financial freedom to retirees and pensioners. (Reads) "The founders of Money for Living

"have spent 15 years developing a unique system "that allows people generally over 55 "to access the equity in their home,

"allowing them to enjoy a much better standard of living "than they would otherwise be able to afford." Money for Living offered to buy that home and free up the equity in it. Clients would be paid a lump sum and the rest in monthly installments and, best of all, they could still live in their home for next to nothing. They wouldn't even have to pay rates or water bills. They would pay me $45,000 upfront and $647 a month for 20 years. And I thought, you know, with the pension,

I thought, "That's pretty good." Ben Walsh sold his house to Money for Living. A car was sent to his home on the urban fringe of Melbourne and brought him here to No. 1 Queens Road where the documents were just waiting to be signed. As for legal considerations, well, the solicitors were in the same building. It was all very convenient. You know, when I first read the book, I thought, "You know, this just seems - everything seems right," which is when I made the phone call, and maybe it could be the most expensive phone call I've ever made. Ben Walsh has just learnt that Money for Living has gone broke with debts of some $2.5 million.

In its short history - 12 months, rather than 15 years - it bought 117 properties and onsold 70 of them. But then it became known that Stephen O'Neill, the man behind the scheme, is a convicted and now missing fraudster. The company was left with 47 homes and payments it couldn't meet. What's gone wrong is a number of things. The calculations in terms of the costs to maintain these properties over the period required extra cash that the company didn't have. They also had some problems when ASIC commenced their investigation into the previous history of Mr O'Neill, and when that occurred, the inquiry rate dried up quite quickly. Not much is known about the ASIC investigation into Stephen O'Neill. ASIC refuses to discuss it, beyond acknowledging that it exists. But we do know he was convicted of fraud in 2001 and spent three years in jail. He was also banned from being a company director for five years, but, amazingly, that fact slipped under the regulatory radar. With having Stephen O'Neill as a convicted felon as one of the directors of the company, as far as I'm concerned, I just feel it's fraudulent. It should never ever have been allowed to happen. Ben Walsh is having a rough time of it lately. His car is on its way to the wreckers

and his finances have gone up in smoke. But worst of all, he recommended Money for Living to an old friend, Ted McKenna, who sold his home of 35 years. If I was cheated by a mob of con men I would be kicking myself. I would be giving myself a big kick up the backside for being stupid and listening to glib people. But I wasn't listening to glib people, I don't think. I would have lost approximately, if I have to pay my rates and tax, $100,000. REPORTER: Can you afford $100,000? I haven't got $100,000. No, I can't afford it. This is $100,000. And as for Dawn Fraser and Paul Cronin, they're apparently devastated by what's happened but unwilling to speak about it. They issued this short statement.

Find out how Money For Living could make your life easier. REPORTER: You see the names Paul Cronin and Dawn Fraser. Did that give it a ring of legitimacy?

It gave it an enormous influence attached to it - enormous influence and I'm not criticising them, because I think they took this on with total sincerity, because the scheme was written up so well. The Money for Living scheme was flawed but not illegal. In Australia, the equity release business is growing rapidly. Some estimates suggest it could be worth between $3 billion and $5 billion

within the next decade as older Australians cash in perhaps part of their children's inheritance for a more comfortable retirement. Kieren Dell is the head of the industry association, Sequel. His advice to potential customers is clear: Don't sell the title to your property.

We also strongly recommend that you get independent financial advice as well as talking to Centrelink about your pension entitlements. And then the other issue is to make sure you talk to your beneficiaries,

make sure you talk to your children or whoever is going to inherit your estate, because they need to understand that they're not necessarily going to get a property that is unencumbered at the point that you die. At a creditors' meeting, Ted McKenna and Ben Walsh were told they will not be thrown out of their homes and new financiers have shown an interest in taking over the scheme. But for two retirees who thought the sale of their homes might provide some comfort and security, there is no certainty now. The whole concept - it just seems wrong. Why they should be allowed to get away with it? And as I say, I don't know where mine is going to end up and where my friends are going to end up, but we will just have to wait and see.

Geoff Hutchison with that report. With a distinguished legal career including 17 Royal Commissions behind him, four of them as chairman, a stint as head of Australia's domestic spy service ASIO and many other public roles, Sir Edward Woodward's memoir was always going to be worth a read. He was a confidante of prime ministers and once told his friend, Governor-General Sir John Kerr, weeks after he had sacked the Whitlam government that he had done the wrong thing. He also knocked back the governorship of Victoria because he didn't think it was appropriate for an Athiest to hold the position. It was during Sir Edward's five years running ASIO in the late '70s that Australia experienced its worst terrorist attack on home soil to date - the Hilton bombing. And he has now expressed strong views that Australia's role in Iraq has heightened the risk of terrorist attacks here. I spoke with Sir Edward Woodward in Melbourne today.

Sir Edward, you correspondent a

Sir Edward, you correspondent a lot of ground in the book. I'd like to

start with more recent history and

work back from there. You touch on

the Iraq war , for instance.

Yes. As a former intelligence

chief, what did you think of the

chief, what did you think of the way intelligence was used by the US,

Britain and Australian Governments

to justify the war in Iraq? I

think it was used by the US and

British government ineffectively.

They came one the wrong answers, as

it turns out. I think they could

have done a good deal better. I

wouldn't be inclined to add

Australia into that because I think

Australia was in a situation where

they had to depend - country had to

depend on America and Britain. So

that ASIO I suspect would only have

been able to transmit to the

Australian Government what it was

hearing from other allies. You

expressed a fear at the time that

John Howard committed Australia to

the Iraq war; that it could lead to

"a vast recruitment among young

Muslim men to al-Qaeda and other

related movements." Do you think

your fear has been justified?

Oh, yes. I don't like to say "I

told you so", but that is the fact.

It's been - my concern was that no

thought had been give on the what

was going to happen after the shock

and awe of the first attack which

was obviously going to be

was obviously going to be successful and I think that began to come true

as soon as we saw the looting after

the fall of Saddam Hussein and it's

gone from bad to worse ever since.

And the recruiting of potential

terrorists? Oh, yes. Well, they're

coming in numbers and there's quite

a flood and it doesn't seem to be

abating. Do you have any doubt

abating. Do you have any doubt that Australia is now a bigger terrorist

target as it might have been

incidents its involvement with the

Iraq war? No, I don't. I think

probably what is saving us is our

remoteness and the difficulties of

terrorists getting in to Australia

and then getting out again, which

isn't shared with countries like

isn't shared with countries like the UK or Spain. You shared the

ground-breaking royal commission on

Aboriginal land rights back in the

'70s. What do you think now of the

government proposal to promote much

of the land to leasehold home

ownership? Well, again, we

ownership? Well, again, we haven't seen the fine print and I don't

quite understand how they're

intending to do it because it seems

to me to be a difficult concept to

give private ownership or 99-year

leases, which is virtually the same

thing, over what is presently

communal land. I don't see how the

two can be intermingled. But I'm

also worried that it may be a back

door method of getting a lot of

Aboriginal land into a situation

where it can be purchased by a

non-Aboriginals and there's also -

non-Aboriginals and there's also - I also have a concern that the people

who will benefit most from it will

be the leaders in Aboriginal

communities who have come to

understand the white man's ways

understand the white man's ways very thoroughly and would be able to

thoroughly and would be able to take advantage of it and that the other

less well educated or uneducated

Aboriginal people may be left

Aboriginal people may be left behind so that you will find a big gap

opening up between the very rich

opening up between the very rich and the very poor, such as we have in

our own society. Is it fair to say

that you believe from your book on

land rights that opportunities have

been blown by successive

been blown by successive governments since your royal commission 30

since your royal commission 30 years ago that while you applaud Fraser's

legislation on land rights, you

legislation on land rights, you felt he didn't go far enough and that

he didn't go far enough and that Bob Hawke failed to take up the

challenge as Prime Minister. What

has been the legacy of those

failures to the extent that you see

them as failures? Well, the

them as failures? Well, the legacy of Bob Hawke not taking the one

opportunity that he had to spread

the legislation further is that, in

my view, and I think it's certainly

the view of the Northern Territory

Aboriginals and a number of others,

is that an opportunity has been

is that an opportunity has been lost to have a better system than the

ones that are rather muddled system

which has been introduced following

the High Court's decisions in Mabo

and Wick. You've also had thins to

say about the dismissal of the

Whitlam government in 1975 and

Whitlam government in 1975 and Gough Whitlam appointed you to be the

Whitlam appointed you to be the head of ASIO but he was dismissed by Sir

John Kerr before you were able to

take the commitment up. Which put

take the commitment up. Which put me in a happy position of being

nominated by one side of politics

and appointed by the other. That's

right. Shortly after the dismissal,

you told your friend, Sir John Kerr

that you thought he was wrong to

dismiss Gough Whitlam. Why? I

thought it was for a couple of

reasons. One was that I thought he

acted too soon. That arose from a

conversation I had with Alan Missan

who's an old friend of mine, just a

few days before the dismissal, in

which I get a distinct impression

which I get a distinct impression he and a couple of other senators were

very close to defecting. This is

Liberal senators who were part of

the blockage -- Yes, yes. So I

thought he acted unnecessarily

early. Secondly, I didn't like the

way it appeared he had stage

way it appeared he had stage managed the handover by having Malcolm

Fraser waiting? The wings while he

dismissed Whitlam in his study. He,

I noticed, says in his book that

I noticed, says in his book that was accidental; that Fraser arrived

earlier than he'd expected. So I

have no reason to doubt this, but

have no reason to doubt this, but it didn't look good. I think those

didn't look good. I think those were the two major reasons. You are

quite curtly dismissive of any

intelligence theory to dismiss the

government plaer will I by the CIA.

Yes. Why are you so sure since

Yes. Why are you so sure since the Nixon government and the CIA would

have been happy to see the Whitlam

government go? That's perfectly

true, but I just don't believe that

they had any opportunity to do so.

They did - I had an excellent

They did - I had an excellent public servant acting in my place because

my appointment couldn't come

my appointment couldn't come through until after the Fraser Government

had taken office and in the interim

there was an excellent public

servant from the Attorney-General's

Department acting as

director-general. I know that the

CIA asked him for a briefing about

the affect of Whitlam's comments

about the American installations in

Australia and Whitlam had made some

comments about that, but I'm

comments about that, but I'm certain that there was no other

communication for ASIO from the CIA

and I don't believe there was any

other way in which the CIA could

have got to John Kerr and I don't

believe that he would have reacted

favourably if they had. I think

favourably if they had. I think he's a very loyal Australian. Sir

a very loyal Australian. Sir Edward Woodward, thank you very much for

talking to us. It's been a pleasure. #e

Industrial relations is clearly going to dominate the political landscape for at least the next few weeks, as the government tries to recapture

some of its lost advantage in the debate while it waits for the release of what is reportedly going to be a jumbo bill, both in its size and radical nature. But today it wasn't Labor so much as criticism from the churches that the government had to refute. Sydney's powerful Anglican Archbishop Peter Jensen Political editor Michael Brissenden reports.

In the current political reality

the government's industrial

relations changes are barring the

state's rights revolt a political

certainty, but the debate has moved

to a higher plain, beyond the nuts

and bolts arguments of AWAs and

collective bargaining. Beyond the

question of how many angels can fit

on the end of a pin to who's angels

are they any way? A'm certainly

not a supporter of a radical

weakening of the unions. I think

that's gone far enough. IR has

become a question of spiritual

significance, a topic preoccupying

the nation's top theological minds.

Our prosperity, brothers and

sisters, has been purchased at a

fearful price to relationships.

Recently I've been raising

Recently I've been raising questions publicly, as you may know, about

publicly, as you may know, about the government's IR revolution. What

concerns me is the need to preserve

shared time for children, families

and relationships for all

Australians. The nation's

Australians. The nation's religious leaders fear industrial relations

reform is just further evidence of

society's increasing tendency to

worship far more fervently at the

alter of maman. Sunday is the new

Monday. If this is the consequence

of the new legislation, if it is,

and I haven't read the legislation

yet, there won't be time for

relationships and after all I would

have thought that's what life is

about, rather than the economy.

Without shared time, we may as well

be robots. I have to admit I wait

anxiously to see what a new

workplace relation system is going

to mean for our community. When it

comes to IR reforms Archbishop

Jensen is certainly no believer,

more a scept cam agnostic. Last

night he spelled out his concerns

night he spelled out his concerns to the faithful and the message has

the faithful and the message has far beyond the pull pit. Given the

community leaders such as

community leaders such as Archbishop Jensen view your extreme proposals

in this way, why doesn't the Prime

Minister just back off, back off

now, shred the bills? Let he say

now, shred the bills? Let he say I grow with him that relationships

grow with him that relationships are far more parent than money. Mr

Speaker, I think afternoon Jensen

Speaker, I think afternoon Jensen is - Archbishop Jensen is a very fine

Archbishop of the Anglican

Archbishop of the Anglican afternoon diocese of Sydney and a fine

community leader. And of course

not one that can be or should be

ignored. Industrial relations

ignored. Industrial relations reform like a modern parable is in the

interpretation. Whilst

interpretation. Whilst relationships and the close relationships within

families are far more important

families are far more important than economic considerations, it is also

the case that job security is very

important to family security, Mr

Speaker. Job security is built on a

strong economy and a strong economy

strong economy and a strong economy depends crucially on the right

industrial relations policy and

that's what this government is

about. Of course it's not just the

Anglican Archbishop Jensen who

appears to be wrestling with the

moral implications with the

pressures of the modern world. Even

the new family first Senator

Fielding field from the more pent

cos tal wing of the faith has deep

philosophical reservations. People

are not economic units. They are

people. We need to be making sure

we're looking after the people in

the long term in the community.

Catholics are worried, too.

Cardinal George Pell, who has over

the past few months before the

target of fierce lobbying from some

of his flak in the union movement

like Bill shorten, has recently

expressed his reservations. I

personally speaking, and I think I

represent the general Catholic

tradition here, I wouldn't want to

see the unions weaken to much

further. And today Labor made sure

all the main denominations were

represented in the most pie yas

attacks so far on the government's

workplace plans. Prime Minister, I

refer to the late Pope John Paul's

statement follows his meeting with

factory workers in Parramatta

Australia's industrial relations

system has, "Helped to defend the

rights of workers and promote their

wellbeing, while at the same time

taking into account the needs and

future of the whole community.

future of the whole community." For this government, IR reform is

an ideological crusade. It's even

been described as an article of

faith for John Howard. But the

faith for John Howard. But the Prime Minister says it isn't and

Minister says it isn't and shouldn't be an accumenical moral dilemma.

There will be Catholics who will

agree and disagree and Anglicans

agree and disagree and Anglicans who will grow and disagree. That's what

should - how it should be in a

nation such as this that has a

proper regard for the respective

roles of the government and the

church . The separation of powers

of course is an important matter of

principle here. As they say, God is

everywhere and even prime ministers

can find him in their corner from

time to time and give in to

temptation. I would like to add to

the answer I gave by informing the

House Mr Speaker that I've been

advised by sources on our side

advised by sources on our side which I regard as impeccable in these

matters -- Order, order! -- as

impeccable in these matters that

late Pope John

impeccable in these matters that the late Pope John Paul II in 1981 said,

"If the primary responsibility of

government is to create the

conditions under which everyone who

wanted a job can get one." CHEERING Political editor Michael Brissenden. And that's the program for tonight. We'll be back at the same time tomorrow, but for now, goodnight. Captions by Captioning and Subtitling International.