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(generated from captions) Welcome to the program. Bob Hawke has never been afraid to court controversy. a politician the finance system, His Government deregulated floated the dollar, and cut tariffs. of the Labor Party, But now as an elder statesman that many - he's put forward an idea both inside and outside the ALP - think it's unsaleable. should offer itself He says Australia a global nuclear waste dump. as the site for reaction from environment groups The proposal has drawn immediate who warn such a proposal of the nuclear industry worldwide. would simply invite an expansion prime minister in a minute, We'll talk with the former from Mark Bannerman. but first this report

Right now across the globe, 440

commercial nuclear poir stations commercial nuclear poir stations

supply one-fifth of the world's

electricity. Each year a typical

reactor produces 30 tonnes of

high-level radioactive waste. By

any measure, it is a major problem.

Now Bob Hawke says the country that

supplies much of the world's

has to be part of the solution. supplies much of the world's uranium

If we took the world's nuclear

waste, we would contribute to the

safety of the world's nuclear cycle.

We'd be making an enormous

contribution to the rest of the

world. The question is: what's in

it for Australia? Well, the former

prime minister has an answer for

that, too - money. He says the

millions of dollars generated by a

nuclear waste facility could be

to fund the rehabilitation of nuclear waste facility could be used

Australia's salt ravaged

environmentment. We'd have a source

of flak we could hypothecate to

environmental issues in this

- salinity. We could revolutionise environmental issues in this country

the economics of Australia if we

this. As it happened Mr Hawke the economics of Australia if we did

delivered this bombshell with

Labor's current leader Kim Beazley

close at hand. He reacted

immediately. Bob is a father figure

the Labor Party, but that's well

outside the platform. (Laughter)

If Kim Beazley was laughing, outside the platform. (Laughter).

others are not. Indeed, some

environment lists are simply

nonplussed. It's a crazy idea. I

mean, we're trying to be a clean

green country and how are we going

to look if we're a depository for

highly toxic radio active waste, as

well as being the worst green

emitters in the world. We don't

to be; you foe, selling our souls emitters in the world. We don't need

and the outback as a waste dump

no-one can ever visit in perpetuity and the outback as a waste dump that

in order to get money for salinity.

We need to redirect the bad,

perverse subsidies we have for

fossil fuels now and start

the clean options. Others fossil fuels now and start promoting

Professor Aidan Burn, head of the the clean options. Others including

physics department at the ANU, says

it is well worth consideration.

One has to be certainly very

with nuclear waste and treat it One has to be certainly very careful

carefully. But I think Australia is with nuclear waste and treat it very

a country where those processes and

procedures can be put in place. One

has to treat it very, very

I's highly activated material, but has to treat it very, very carefully

think the control of that material I's highly activated material, but I

can be done and I think Australia

one of the places that should can be done and I think Australia is

consider storing nuclear waste.

Above all, pangea will provide

disposal of world with a safe solution to the Above all, pangea will provide the

disposal of nuclear... The idea of it become

it becomes a waste dump isn't new.

In 1999 a foreign company floated a

specific proposal, detailed in this

video to crate a high-tech waste

storage site underground in the

centre of Australia. The Federal

Government wasn't impressed at the

time. And the government has

absolutely no intention of

the radio active waste of other absolutely no intention of accepting

countries. Has the Federal

Government's view on this matter

changed? Well, last night Health

Minister Tony Abbott, a guest at

same forum as Bob Hawke, wasn't Minister Tony Abbott, a guest at the

about to dismiss the idea out of

hand. It is a visionary suggestion,

but unfortunately -- Always buts.

There are a lot of politics in this.

Right at the moment, we can't even

get agreement on where to put a

nuclear repository for Australia's

waste, let alone a repository for

the world's waste. The Federal

Government insisted Woomera is the

safest place to store the nation's

radioactive waste. Little wonder

he's sceptical. Four years ago, The

Federal Government announced plans

to make South Australia the site of

a low-level nuclear waste dump. A

major battle ensued. I want the

barrels out, anything that comes

from other states, I want out of

South Australia. I mean, that's

my position right from the start South Australia. I mean, that's been

it applies to whoever is in power my position right from the start and

federally. We do regret the

of a good policy by the Premier of federally. We do regret the sabotage

South Australia. Waste transport

to the facility will be strictly

governed by stringent national and international standards. Having

lost out in South Australia, The

Federal Government is proposing

the Northern Territory will be the Federal Government is proposing that

site for the low-level waste dump.

Again, there is opposition. If

safe, take it down to the Lodge and Again, there is opposition. If it's

put it under Kirribilli House. I

think they've got a hide. If

low-level waste dumps get people

agitated, imagine the potential

reaction to a never ending line of

ships and trains bringing

waste from reactors and ships and trains bringing high-level

weapons from around the world to waste from reactors and decommission

Australia? It would be a very brave

government that took that on. No

might be. matter what the world-wide benefit

That report from Mark Bannerman. in the studio. And Bob Hawke is with me now

Now, look, this very problematic

notion, as you mow, as we've just

seen, why put it on the table now?

Why shouldn't you put it on the seen, why put it on the table now?

table? We have a real ish The world

of nuclear waste being stored in

unsafe places in the UK they've got

it in 20 different places. They are

scared stiff of the problems that

are associated with it and that's

just one example. Now, what I am

saying is let's put the emotions to

one side because I understand how

people feel about this. Let's

dispassionately examine the pros

cons. I understand the feelings and dispassionately examine the pros and

the arguments that people have

against it. But there are very

strong arguments in a situation

where environmental movement says

environmental issues are global in

their ramification and they are

right. Now, if in fact we in

Australia have, as we do have, the

safest theological formations in

which you can dig deep mines, vit

trify the material and put it down

and it would be safer than anywhere

unless the world, I believe prima

facie at least, I believe we have a

moral responsibility to do that.

That's the environmental argument.

The bonus from Australia's point of

view, is that we would

view, is that we would revolutionise the economics of Australia. Forget

this current account deficit

problem. We would have a situation

whereas far as you could see into

the future, Australia would be

earning billions of dollars making

the world safer and doing the world

a great turn and in return we would

be able to hypothecate those

billions of dollars to dealing with

the environmental problems, like

salinity, that we haven't got the

money to deal with now. Not only

that, but other things. Let's take

that latter argument first. You say

revolutionise the economics of

Australia which is a big claim.

Australia which is a big claim. What sort of dollars are we talking

sort of dollars are we talking about in terms of revenues? We are

talking about billions and billions

of dollar as year. Again, this is

one of the things that should be

one of the things that should be put on the table I'm asking for a calm,

dispassionate discussion. I mean, I

see some the reports today where

some fellow from Greenpeace said,

"Oh, haub hawk mentality of the

"Oh, haub hawk mentality of the 19th century digging minerals out of the

ground", I don't know if he's a

youngster or has a bad memory, who

stopped mining at Coronation Hill?

stopped mining at Coronation Hill? I am not a growth at all cost man. I

stopped mining at Coronation Hill.

stopped mining at Coronation Hill. I would put my environmental

credentials against any of these

people, in terms of what I've done.

None of them will ever begin to get

within a bull's roar of who I've

done in terms of protecting the environment of Australia. But we've environment of Australia. But we've

got to look at this globally.

Let 's look at the practicalities

and be clear what you are talking

about. You are talking about all

of the world's nuclear waste

coming to Australia, that's from

north mesh, from Asia, from

Europe, from all of the fluke

clear establishments? All of

clear establishments? All of those countries that believe they haven't

the capacity to safe

the capacity to safely store this.

That's big volumes, isn't it?

That's big volumes, isn't it? Of course. 12,000 tonnes of

high-level waste per year. Are

high-level waste per year. Are you also talking about weapon's waste

also talking about weapon's waste as well from decommission weapons?

Why not? Here's another aspect of

what I am saying, one of the

what I am saying, one of the great elements of the concern of those

elements of the concern of those who addressing the issue of terrorism,

is the way in which so much of this

stuff is just loosely stores,

particularly in Russia. Now, of

course, bring that in, too.

Victorify and it and put it deep in

the ground T point is it's in

the ground T point is it's in remote areas and there's no water table

areas and there's no water table and it won't desem Nate the waste.

In's no duty about the safety

In's no duty about the safety once it is in the ground. What about

it is in the ground. What about that immense mainment exercise of the

transportation to somewhere in the

outback in Look, do you think

outback in Look, do you think it's beyond the wit of our people? No,

but you are talking about taking it

out of cities in North America, on

the ships and then on to trains

again. The Brits - let's say we are

taking the Brits. They've got it

stored in one they regard as

virtually relatively unsafe places.

We take the ships there, they get

it, we put it in the ships and

it, we put it in the ships and bring it here and then by rail we get it

to the remote places. Now, look at

the sthings that our technological

and engineering geniuses have done.

Is anyone suggesting it is beyond

the wit of our capacity to build

the wit of our capacity to build the mines, build the railways, have the

ports and have the security

facilities to do this? Who is

suggesting that is beyond our

capacity? No, but would it not also

be beyond the capacity of potential

terrorists to hijack the ships, the

trains? Well -- To get access

though that material? I agree with

you some of the material is sitting

around now very poorly guarded.

It's an existing problem now and

always will be. Once you get it

always will be. Once you get it here and put it deep in the ground, it

will be a clever terrorist who will

get down there and get it out of.

There Want a the politics of this?

You heard Tony Abbott last night.

You heard Tony Abbott last night. He said a visionary idea. Is that a

said a visionary idea. Is that a way of saying it is totally politically

unsailable? You never know what

Tony means. He was obviously very

relatively positive. No doubt I've

been in politics a long time Know

that the politics of getting this

accepted is very difficult. In my

own party t Australian Labor Party,

the Greens, and I respect the

concerns, the emotions of these

people. What I'm pleading for is

let's put the emotions aside. Let's

try and analyse the arguments. What

are the arguments in favour for the

world of providing what is desperately need

desperately needed, the safest

possible repository for this

dangerous material? We've got that

safest repository and that's the

argument, the environmental one.

argument, the environmental one. And you can't -- Can you ever imagine

having or trying to win this

argument while in Office? Would you

have floated this while you were

Prime Minister? Well, I was just

gathering the ideas then and I've

thought about it more since. Look,

I'm not a pessimist. Look, when

we're in Office we did things like

slashing tariffs. Now, this was

against the Labor Party platform

almost and the philosophy and it

almost and the philosophy and it was against the views of most of the

Trade Union Movement. But I said,

"Let's sit down, look at the

arguments rationally, put the

emotions to one side, look at the

national interest." Out of rational,

calm discussion, we got decisions

were in the national and

international interest. Now, I

believe if we sat down with the

Greens, representatives of the

Greens, the Labor Party and others,

let's sit down and talk about it.

May I sai, I've already spoken to

two reasonably significant figures

in the Green movement. Can you

in the Green movement. Can you name them? No. We, I can, but I'm not

going to because it wouldn't be

fair. How do you talk, for

instance, to mike wran and Geoff

Gallop? Well -- One would

Gallop? Well -- One would imagine that it would be either in Northern

Territory. Or Western Australia.

Or South Australia. No, not South

Australia. The scientific advice

I've had and best advice is north

of Western Australia and Northern

Territory. Do you think the

argument is winnable in those

states? Well, not at this stage.

But, arguments - I mean, progress

doesn't come from sitting down and

saying, "The forces are against you.

You can't win, can you?" No, so we

stay in the cave. Progress is about

facing up to challenges. Facing up

to prejudice. Facing up to emotion.

Putting reasonable on the table.

Putting national interest on the

table. That's what good policy

making and leadership is about.

Let me just turn to another issue

just in the time we've got left.

Mark Latham's diaries. Have you

read them? No. Are you going to?

No. You won't bow a copy? I

won't give him $3.90. It is $39.

No, he doesn't get $39. He gets $3.

No, he doesn't get $39. He gets $3.90. Simple arithmetic. You

campaigned for him during the last

election. Of course I did. Do you

feel let down -- I worked as hard

as I possibly could to stop him

becoming leader. I rang so many

people in the Caucus surging them

not to vote for this man because I

thought he would be a disaster. In

their lack of wisdom, they voted

their lack of wisdom, they voted for him and he became the leader. I

regarded it as my obligation, as a

loyal member of the Labor Party,

once they had made their mistake,

once they had made their mistake, to go out and do what I could. I had

him to my home. I talked calmly

him to my home. I talked calmly with him about what I thought was the

right tactics; the right strategy,

right tactics; the right strategy, the right policy, the right

approach. Unfortunately he took no

notice of anything I said. But I

regarded that as my duty. They made

a mistake in electing him. But they

made him. It was my responsibility

as a loyal party member to see if I

could get him up. Has he betrayed

his party? Yes.

his party? Yes. Should he hand in

his ALP membership? That's for

his ALP membership? That's for him to decide. I would is have thought

it's the logical thing to do after

what you've said about the party

what you've said about the party . Bob Hawke, thank you for your Bob Hawke, thank you for your time tonight. An epidemic where at least half of the population is infected with a debilitating and potentially life-threatening disease - not the dreaded avian flu, but something much more common. Hepatitis C - it's a highly contagious virus with flu-like symptoms of fatigue and nausea, which, if left untreated,

can lead to cirrhosis and liver cancer and right now, it's affecting at least half of the inmates in our prisons. The Federal Government recently released a snapshot of the problem

with its National Hepatitis C Strategy, but as Mick Bunworth reports, politicians are reluctant to talk about the issues contained in the paper.

I was quite conscious about not

sharing needles with other people,

about hepatitis B and other

possibilities of other diseases

possibilities of other diseases that might have get sharing needles. So

might have get sharing needles. So I was quite aware about that. It's

been 20 years since Dean, who

prefers not to use his surname,

prefers not to use his surname, last injected heroin. He knew the risks

of transmittable disease, so Dean

all used clean equipment and

all used clean equipment and refused to share syringes with others. That

is, until he went to prison for

breaking and entering. That's the

point where I put myself most at

risk in my time of using because

previously I had been quite aware

previously I had been quite aware of using my own syringes and my own

equipment and that. So this time

was, you know, I just didn't have

the opportunity to get a new

the opportunity to get a new syringe or anything like that. Dean

initially kicked his addiction,

avoiding the heroin readily

available in prison. He remained

clean for the first two years of

clean for the first two years of his sentence, but with a year to go,

sentence, but with a year to go, his spirits took a dive. I was in there

for about 18-20 months and I

for about 18-20 months and I applied for parole and I was knocked back

for parole and I thought I was

a good candidate for parole

for parole and I thought I was quite a good candidate for parole because

it was my first time in. I didn't

get into any trouble in prison.

Dean's reaction was to buy heroin

off another prisoner. I was only

going to snort it or smoke it and

going to snort it or smoke it and at the last minute I decided to ask

someone for a syringe. In 1990,

seven years after leaving prison,

Dean was diagnosed with hepatitis C.

There's many different symptoms

with hepatitis C, such as brain

fog, lack of concentration,

flu-like symptoms, fatigue. So for

me, you know, the prognosis was

that I just would have get worse

and worse as the years went on and

if I was unlucky

if I was unlucky I might have had

liver cancer or cirrhosis. The

Federal Government's national

hepatitis C strategy, released two

most ago, reports that half of

Australia's male prison population

are suffering from hepatitis C and

70% of all female prisoners have

70% of all female prisoners have the virus. Last year, Dr Margaret

Hellard of Victoria's Macfarlane

Burnet Institute of research and

public health found similar rates

public health found similar rates of infection at Victorian jails,

particularly among injecting drug

users. What our study showed is

within the prison environment, that

context of injecting is much more

complicated and, therefore, people

who clearly outside knew to be

who clearly outside knew to be using clean needles and syringes, within

prisons couldn't access them and

injected nonetheless in a way that

was less safe putting themselves at

risk of viruses. We need to see

risk of viruses. We need to see that Hep C spreading in prison, it's not

a prison issue but public health

issue. Nowadays 99%-plus of the

prison population serve an average

of eight months and are release

?into the public community. If we

don't tackle the issue as it can be

contained within the prison

environment, 30,000 people

throughout Australia, we're going

throughout Australia, we're going to see prisons as an incubator for

hepatitis C, then impacting on the

whole community. How are you

feeling? Father Peter Norden is on

the committee that advises the

Federal Government on hepatitis C.

We've got to think how familiar we

are with needle exchanges and how

effective needle exchanges have

to prevent the spread of H i. effective needle exchanges have been to prevent the spread of HIV AIDS

and hepatitis C and other sorts of

infections. We take it for granted

in the community. We say it is

impossible in prison.Ite don't

impossible in prison.Ite don't think if we're trying to dole with the

public health issue we can no

public health issue we can no longer say it's an impossible situation in

prison. Despite warnings like this,

governments, state and federal,

governments, state and federal, seem reluctant to discuss the issue. The

'7:30 Report' approached Tony

'7:30 Report' approached Tony Abbott and four state cetions ministers to

talk about hepatitis C infection

rates in prison and measures they

propose to control its spread. All

of those requests were declined.

Perhaps they'll be more forthcoming

if the number of Australians

infected with hepatitis C,

infected with hepatitis C, currently around a quarter of a million,

starts to agree. In Australia the

new infections, which are estimated

to be anything up to 16,000 new

infections a year, will take a raft

of services, education services,

prevention services, in particular

we need a broad expansion and

promotion of Australia's highly

successful needle and syringe

program. We need a far greater

investment in peer education, where

people whoious drugsge Kate other

people in safer ways of injecting

and we also need innovative

and we also need innovative programs like the trialing of kneadle and

syringe exchanges in Australian

prisons. Without a doubt, unless we

beat the epidemic in Australian

prisons, we aren't going to boat

prisons, we aren't going to boat the hepatitis C epidemic in Australia.

hepatitis C epidemic in Australia. For prisoners one of the

best thins to do is work on

diversion programs, to actually

reduce the number of injecting drug

users we incarcerate. If you look

users we incarcerate. If you look at the work we did, a high proportion

of the people who were incarcerated

are injecting drug users and we

are injecting drug users and we need to look at other ways to look at

that problem. It's a health problem

and not a prison problem. For Dean,

there is finally good news. I'm

really pleased to be able to tell

you that the treatment was

successful and your PCR is positive,

one year after finishing your

treatment. Excellent. Having

undertaken a grueling 48-week

treatment last year, involving a

combination of drugs, Dean is today

being given the all clear by his

specialist. His hope is that others

will be spared that pain. It's

will be spared that pain. It's the department of the correctional

services or state or Federal

Government, there's a duty of care

by the department that to look

by the department that to look after the health of prisoners while they

're in custody and that they need

look at ways of prevent

're in custody and that they need to look at ways of preventing

transmission rates within prisoners. Mick Bunworth with that report. Now a story about a gangster film with a difference. An unknown Australian film student has wowed international festivals with his mocumentary about a laconic Melbourne hitman. Incredibly, the original film was shot with a modest $3,000 budget. It turns out it was money saved from squirrelling away Austudy allowances. Jonathan Harley has the story

and I should warn that it does contain some violent scenes.

When he comes in, wait for him to

get out of the car and then I'm

going to give him the good news.

going to give him the good news. Ray John Shoesmith is a man of

Ray John Shoesmith is a man of few words. An unambiguous actions. Ray

John Shoesmith is 'The Magician'.

His job is to make people disappear.

We're going for a little drive,

alright. His office is the back

lanes of Melbourne. I'd read a lot

of books on hitman and contract

killers and that sort of stuff and

that's basically where the seat of

the idea came from. 'The Magician'

is the brainchild of Scott Ryan,

is the brainchild of Scott Ryan, who was a film student, wrote, directed

and starred in this crime world

mocumentary, shot on video in the

most thread bare of shoestring

budgets. Didn't have insurance.

Didn't have a butt. Didn't have

anything basically. No crew. The

anything basically. No crew. The man acting in the film is shooting it

and recording sound at the same

time. In what may be the all-time

record for a low budget production,

Scott Ryan shot 'The Magician' on

just $3,000 from Austudy money he

saved. His cast and crew were

saved. His cast and crew were fellow film students. You're making a

mocumentary, are you? Yeah.

We couldn't afford locations. We

couldn't afford set that kind of

stuff so we basically shot where

we could. We rocked up on the day

and shot where we wanted to and

didn't ask for permission. #6

didn't ask for permission. #6 This unvarnished production

resolves around the unlikely

friendship freen Ray and his film

student neighbour Max, who is

making a documentary on the

laconic hitman. Max remains a

faceless voice of conscience,

faceless voice of conscience, torn between his fascination and

abhorrence for Ray's trade. I don't

feel comfortable with this. Yeah,

well, it's a bit late for this,

mate. Max finds himself very

interested in this commarct and

interested in the subject matter,

but at the end of the day watching

people get killed in font of you is

not an easy thing to watch.

The film has been feted in

festivals from Sydney to Edinburgh

and there's just - has just

and there's just - has just secured a British distribution deal. But

'The Magician', almost disappeared

without ever finding an audience. I

was going to do something else. I

didn't know what. I was pretty

depressed at that time. I had

depressed at that time. I had pretty much given up, to be honest. Last

year, more than four years after it

all began, Scott Ryan was ready to

abandon the project. After all,

abandon the project. After all, he'd been told by film school teachers

been told by film school teachers it would never work. I was told if I

acted in it and directed it, the

film wouldn't work because I

couldn't do both things at once. I

was told I'd never be an actor. You

know, all kinds of things like that

that at the time were very hurtful.

Scott Ryan's fortunes turned on a

last-ditch screening of a cutdown

30-minute version at St Kilda's

Short Film Festival. When it

caught the attention of stuntman-cum-producer Nash

Edgerton. I thought this is really

good. One of the best Australian

films I'd seen in a long time.

Nash Edgerton showed it to

friends, including heavyweight

Michelle Bennett, who's credits Michelle Bennett, who's credits

mention Chopper. Sentiments from

Scott. Both of them came on board

as producers and helped recut the

film. What is so strong in the

film is the friendship formed by

film is the friendship formed by the film-maker and his suggestment

that's what is so endearing. It's

basically a buddy film as well;

isn't it? Yeah, exactly. But you

never see one of the buddies.

Then came the cash. Scott Ryan's

new mentors secured $330,000 in

government development funding, a

far cry from the initial $3,000

budget. Suddenly, Scott Ryan was

budget. Suddenly, Scott Ryan was on the road to success. On the way

learning a bittersweet lesson in

learning a bittersweet lesson in the politics of film-making. People

politics of film-making. People used to say, "What is important is

perseverance." I used to think,

perseverance." I used to think, what a load of crap. Talent is what

really matters. But I would say

perseverance is No. 1, contacts is

No. 2 and talent is No. 3. Still,

there's no denying Scott Ryan's

talents. But like the hitman he

portrays, Scott Ryan spent all of

his life feeling like a misfit, an

outsider, looking for a way in.

You killed your friend. He had to

go. Somebody was going to do it,

right. If not me, somebody else.

Right? That somebody else, right,

would have made him suffer. With

'The Magician' he may have found it.

He smiles a lot more than he used

He smiles a lot more than he used to when I met him. He'll suffer again,

I'm sure. (Laughs). Yeah, he will.

It is film making. And strangely,

suffering is just what Scott Ryan

wants. Rather than let success

soften his drive to make magic on

the screen. If your life gets too easy, theven

easy, then you have people telling

you how great you are, your ego

you how great you are, your ego gets out of control and creatively you

are dead. So life has got to keep

throwing it at you. I would love

throwing it at you. I would love for my life to be easy, but I know

that's probably not the best thing

for me. It's been like great.

No worries, mate. See you soon.

Keep in touch. Sure. 'The Magician' opens in cinemas around the country this week. Jonathan Harley reporting there. And that's the program for tonight. We'll be back at the same time tomorrow, but for now, goodnight.