Note: Where available, the PDF/Word icon below is provided to view the complete and fully formatted document
Disclaimer: The Parliamentary Library does not warrant the accuracy of closed captions. These are derived automatically from the broadcaster's signal.
Jihad Sheilas -

View in ParlView

(generated from captions) floor of the building into infant was thrown from the third of a rescuer below. Until now, floor of the building into the arms Australian scientists have had will but have lacked the Australian scientists have had the literally, to find a will but have lacked the brains, multiple sclerosis. They hope that literally, to find a cure for will change with the opening today

Australia's first brain tissue bank. will change with the opening today o And Canberras weather - mostly fine tomorrow with a top of 27. Melbourne - 24. Adelaide - overnight tonight. Sydney - 27.

news in an hour. Melbourne - 24. Adelaide - 25. More

Two Australian converts to Islam. We're Aussies at the end of the day. and she's from Mudgee. I mean, you know, I'm from Dubbo Outcasts in their own land. or you're against us. You're either with us It's the war against Islam. It's the war on Muslims. I would defend Islam with my life.

dirty, sub-human terrorist. So that makes me a filthy, It's not a bad thing for Islam, what Osama bin Laden has said. that could very well You have just asked me a question have me put away for a long time. of the war on terror. They believe they're innocent victims ARABIC POP MUSIC lived with the Taliban, Rabiah Hutchinson married into al-Qaeda Grand Dame of Terror. and today is labelled Australia's

Raisah bint Allan Douglas Her close friend from five marriages. has eight children a suspected terrorist. Her current husband, Their stories are like no other. very broad, broad word. Jihad is a very, It covers so much.

in terms of fighting, It doesn't just mean war it actually means struggle. every day. It's a jihad to live in Australia Raisah bint Allan Douglas, a fifth-generation Australian, almost two decades ago. became a Muslim what a Muslim was. I grew up not even knowing Never heard of Islam. Raisah was raised a Catholic.

One of eight children, she was born Rosalie Bannerman, country town of Dubbo. and grew up in the New South Wales I was three years old. My father died when He drowned in Condobolin River. And my mother was left widowed with five children. All the time. My mum, I just saw her struggle. she was interested in religion, At all times and she has a lot of questions.

She was always very enquiring as they were presented. She didn't accept things for a bigger stage, At 16, Raisah left her home town Sydney. She found herself a secretarial job and a flat at the beach. Catholic I was still a bleeding heart a fish and chip shop every Friday and I used to go to to eat fish, as you do. Raisah was drawn into a new world. I met this group of African people. by all things African. And I'd always been fascinated and say "Yeah, we're Muslim." A few of them would talk to me a political refugee from Somalia. Raisah met Abdi Ali, He was the first of five husbands. and he said to me, he said We were walking on George St, Jesus is the son of God." "You know, we don't believe And I said "What?" I said "No! Oh," I said. "Then you're a heathen."

Islamic ceremony. They married in a simple like, girlfriend and boyfriend. In Islam, there is no such thing as, You just get married. (Applause) Melbourne and started a family. Raisah and Abdi moved to He drove taxis day and night their two small children. and she was home with

How are you? Hello. Hello. The world kind of opened up a bit. I started meeting people.

Australian Musilms like myself. I had a lot of friends who were And so life was beginning for me, as a Muslim, as a mum, as a Muslim wife. As her knowledge of Islam grew, her marriage to Abdi fell apart.

I divorce you. She had split up with Abdi. She was with a group of women. I feel ashamed of it now. that have become Muslim," I said "All these women traumas in their background." I said "They've all got some kind of why they do this." I said, "And that's for them. You know, it's like a refuge a very nice thing to say, I mean, that's not the whole thing and I disapproved of were a little bit extreme. because I felt that they interpretation of Islam Raisah embraced an extreme known in the West as Wahhabism. What is the core of it? What is the real Islam? what is the matter of it? the so-called Wahhabi A lot more converts embrace

or hard-line fundamentalist

that's the pure Islam. branch of Islam because originated in Saudi Arabia. Raisah's pure form of Islam

as the prophet Mohammed did Followers are encouraged to live in the seventh century. the official mother of al-Qaeda. Wahhabism is actually his companion believe that. Osama bin Laden and It is the pure Islam. to look at his Islam Osama bin Laden began fundamentalist hardline of Islam. and take on this supposedly It's not. It's not. It's just... it's the correct It's the undiluted version of Islam.

and he doesn't know me. But I don't know the man in common with Osama bin Laden The only thing that I have and I'm a Muslim. is that he's a Muslim And that's all. of pure Islam These people are following this form which is a literal, traditional is not adulterated style of Islam that, in their view, by the Western mind. abayahs, like a full-cover dress I noticed that she was wearing completely. and she was covering her hair of Western ways, She was more critical more critical of us as well. They hear a lot. darlings, are you hot in there? They're oppressed, those poor it's hotter in hell." Well, I say "Look, this now and if I am a bit hot, So you know what? I'd rather wear what God told me to do. it's hotter in hell, so I'll just do

she should marry again. And Raisah's religion also told her to be married. Very important for a woman in Islam your religion to marry. It is said that it is half For a man or a woman. She was now very clear on the kind of Muslim she wanted to marry. You know, when you become Muslim you so admire people with knowledge. It's like ohh... still my heart when he talks about jihad! Arabic he speaks, oh! That's for us.

It's not like, mmm, you know, he's a bit cute or you know, he drives a really... that's not really important to us, but if he's going to stand there with his beard and his sword and say, you know, "I'm into jihad", that is extraordinarily attractive. Raisah's second husband, Rashid Farra, was another Somali. Their marriage was doomed from the start. Soon after, his application for refugee status was rejected. I found out I was pregnant. I said, "Well what are we going to do now?"

He was supposed to leave the country. Rashid was convicted of immigration fraud and was to be deported. Instead he disappeared, provoking the attention of ASIO. I can't say where he is now. (Laughs) Can of worms. The Australian government is still interested.

They're still interested in where he is and what he's doing. At one point ASIO tried to buy me off and they said, "Tell us about Rashid." And I said "Nup." Raisah was not single for long. Her third husband, Aiden Jamal, was another Somali refugee. He'd been tortured in an Iranian jail.

I said to him, "You're very quiet. You don't talk very much, do you?" He said, "I didn't marry you to talk to you." And I said, "Sorry?" He said, "I rotted in that jail for six-and-a-half years." He said, "And I so believed that I would never survive," but he said, he said "I promised myself that if I ever did "that I would find a woman to marry that was fertile."

They had two children, but the marriage ended

before the birth of their second child. That night I just totally lost it. There was too many kids, there was no family... I went down onto the floor and I delivered him there on the floor. Now in her mid-20s, Raisah was alone with a newborn and four small children. Her life was spiralling out of control. I'd kind of gotten numb about everything, including Islam. I was dead inside. I wasn't alive anymore. It is very unusual for a Muslim woman to have multiple marriages. I divorce you. But in the extremist style of Islam divorce is so easy and marriage is very easy. And when the woman is divorced, it's usually also unislamic to leave her without marriage. So another brother of this extremist community will immediately offer her to marriage. We want to have children

and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. It was one of Australia's most extreme clerics, Sheikh Fayez, who arranged Raisah's fourth marriage. Sheikh Fayez introduced Raisah to the world of polygamy. The husband to be was a Rwandan, he already lived with his wife and children. His wife had agreed, not realising herself the reality, that she would have to let him go every second night. And that he wouldn't be around as much, and she didn't realise the impact on her life.

And so when it became a reality, she couldn't cope. And she said to him, "Either it's her or it's me." That was absolute disaster. I was furious with Raisah. I said, "How could you do that?" I think what happened was, I think the loneliness got the better of her. In 1999, after the birth of their first child,

Raisah wanted out of her polygamous marriage and demanded a divorce. The fifth marriage. This is where I become Elizabeth Taylor's apprentice. Raisah met her next husband online. Another Somali. He said, "I'm going to apply to Australia, "and I'm going to come and knock on your door "and ask you to marry me." I said, "Oh, no thanks, I've been there. "You know, if I bring home another Somali "my mum's really going to end up in Dubbo base hospital. No." Omar Abdi Mohammed lived in the United States. He was university educated, an Islamic scholar and a leading member of the San Diego Somali community. In late December 2000, Omar arrived in Australia on a tourist visa to meet his future bride. You know, I saw him, it was just love at first sight. I mean, I just thought Allah! Allah! You've given me this gift! He's a gift! How could somebody this wonderful marry somebody like me, who's, um, a little bit on the chubby side, with six kids and a string of marriages?

Soon after his arrival, Omar and Raisah married in an Islamic ceremony. APPLAUSE I was going only her. I have no idea what is rest of Australia, what is all about. Yep. But I was thinking also, is this small island with a climate change may disappear one day, that's what I was thinking. (Laughs) But I was interested only her. To visit her and see her. But things weren't as simple as they seemed. In San Diego, Omar lived with his wife of 16 years and six children, and intended to keep the US as his base. Legally, technically... well not legally, but under Islamic law, he was still married to her. They hadn't divorced. They were separated. The newlyweds lived with an ocean between them. Omar was back in San Diego, and Raisah was at home in Sydney when the phone rang. TELEPHONE RINGS It was September the 11th. I remember getting a call from my mum. It was 7.30am. She said, "You've got to look at the TV." The fourth tower collap... The first image I saw was the buildings coming down, the way they imploded and fell. Oh, my God... (Muffled) EXPLOSIVE BOOMS And I was know, stunned, absolutely stunned. PEOPLE YELL So 9/11 had an impact on our lives that on the day we were... had no idea...ah... what would be. MAN SINGS IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE Would you die for your faith? Of course. The same as if you asked me, would I die defending my children? Does that mean I'm going to go and lob grenades out of...

the bus in Lakemba? No, it doesn't. But you have just asked me a question

that could very well have me put away for a long time. Rabiah Hutchinson once lived under the Taliban and married a confidante of Osama bin Laden. She is a legend. She was in Pakistan/Afghanistan during the golden age of the jihad, against the Soviet. She has been around... very important people. And so, by who she knows and her role in the past, she has now become a grand madam of the jihad.

I just... (Laughs) To know Rabiah and to see her...described as the 'grand madam of terrorism', or the Elizabeth Taylor of al-Qaeda or whatever, to me, is like... "You don't know Rabiah." Raisah has known Rabiah for almost two decades. Their friendship cemented by their wahhabist beliefs. Rabiah's very much respected because she is one of the first converts to Islam and, certainly, the most well known and the most well travelled. Nobody's done what she's done, been where she's been. According to Rabiah, her reputation is unfounded. And she's no madam of militant Islam. Well, I think that it would be very easy for them to come to that conclusion after the most shocking things have been said about me, about where I've been, what I'd done, who I've married, how I've spent the last 34 years of my life. Rabiah Hutchinson was born Robyn Hutchinson in 1953.

She grew up in the NSW country town of Mudgee. But her childhood was far from idyllic. MAN: My father was scary. When it came to him and alcohol, it was not a good mix. It was very strict and tough. You stepped out of line you got... (Claps hands) That was it. His discipline would have been brought to bear onto Robyn. Rabiah's spiritual search began at an early age. I think I even went through a stage where I contemplated maybe it was aliens or... That didn't last very long. When she was 18, Rabiah followed the hippie trail to Indonesia. It was here she discovered Islam. I found Asians to be people who had a lot of self-discipline.

But the process was a slow one, and I actually took the declaration of faith in 1973. Soon after, Rabiah married a Javanese Muslim, Bambang Wisudo.

ROCK'N'ROLL GUITAR MUSIC PLAYS In the mid-'70s she returned to Australia with her husband and young family and abandoned her faith. Living in that environment, the only thing that really remained of my Islam is that I didn't eat pig. And when police raided their home, cannabis was found in their daughter's cot. Rabiah wasn't implicated, but Bambang was charged and deported. RODERICK HUTCHINSON: My father was very anti-drugs,

and for Bambang to be caught was betrayal to my father because he raised his daughter to be anti-drugs. He cut ties immediately. Rabiah was now alone and caring for two small children. Quite distraught, thinking that I was going to die, and I wanted to...repent. She found refuge in the heartland of Sydney's Muslim community - Lakemba. When I moved Lakemba, I saw all these women in scarves.

I said, "What's that you're wearing on your head?" And they said, "Oh, this is a... It's called a hijab. "If a Muslim woman wants to go to paradise "she has to wear one of those." And, at that stage, I was... (Laughs) I wanted anything that was gonna save me and I said, "Give me one," and I stuck it on. Rabiah immersed herself in Islam. It got to a stage where my thirst for pure Islamic knowledge could not be satisfied anymore in Australia. So I took my children and I returned to Indonesia. Rabiah found her way to a hardline Islamic boarding school, Ngruki, on the island of Java. I lived within the compound of Ngruki, and I started to learn Arabic, and I learnt Hadith, an Islamic law, from the pure sources. CHANTS Ngruki was a model of life under strict Islamic law. WOMAN: There would have been a very heavy emphasis on morality

and on strict...rules of dress. TAWIK HAMID: The moment you go in the bathroom, you are not allowed to go with the right foot, you go with the left one. Even how to make sex. I'm not joking. This is what is described in the Islamic sharia. They control you, or you feel controlled, if you followed it meticulously in every thing. At Ngruki Rabiah married her second husband, Abdul Rahim Ayub, and raised their children according to the teachings of the school's two founders - Abu Bakar Bashir and Abdullah Sungkar. I have the greatest respect for them. These two men later went on to form Jemaah Islamiah, the terrorist organisation responsible for the Bali bombings and linked to al-Qaeda. The lies and the portrayal of him and Abu Bakar Bashir as some kind of hideous monsters that find human blood... easy to spill. I know them as... incredible human beings. Rabiah disputes Abu Bakar Bashir was involved in the Bali bombing. He said he wasn't. And I believe him. Simple as that. In 1985 Rabiah and her family moved to Darwin. Her husband, Abdul Rahim Ayub, became the leader of Jemaah Islamiah's Australian division. At this time JI's aim was to create Islamic states in Asia, but back then it wasn't a terrorist organisation. MAN CHANTS SIDNEY JONES: Ayub's role was basically to find recruits, build up a community,

and provide support to JI operations.

But Australia couldn't satisfy Rabiah's desire for pure Islam. Her marriage ended and she left once again. I wanted to go to a place where Islam was how you lived. It was the late 1980s, the Muslim mujaheddin had claimed victory in Afghanistan and a new force was emerging in the Islamic world. Rabiah Hutchinson arrived in Peshawar in Pakistan. HORN BEEPS MARK SAGEMAN: Rabiah who would come into this neighbourhood. He would definitely know the people who became the leadership of al-Qaeda. Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda's current deputy Dr Ayman al-Zawahri, and bin Laden's spiritual leader, Sheikh Abdullah Azzam, were all there. I spent four years in Peshawar, and... I worked with the wife of Sheikh Abdullah Azzam. WOMAN: (Speaks foreign language) TRANSLATION: She was working as a nurse. She used to take care of the children and those in need of help, even teaching. She refused to take any wages. Rabiah worked with Dr al-Zawahri, bin Laden's second-in-charge, and a mastermind behind the September 11th attacks. They knew each other, they in the same medical field. He was a full-time physician when he came to Peshawar, that was his role. And then, I think, by the end he ended up as a full-time terrorist and not as a physician. Somehow ASIO knew about me having, on occasion, spoken to him. It was in a capacity as him as a doctor. And it also... At one stage, before September 11th, they were going to build a state-of-the-arts hospital for women in Afghanistan and they'd asked me to be responsible for that facility. (Men yell angrily) By 1998 al-Qaeda had declared a war on the West and its base was Afghanistan. During this time Rabiah Hutchinson travelled there with her children to live under the Taliban. I didn't want to be bombarded with music and nakedness and alcohol and drugs. And the lies about how Afghanistan was under the Taliban is purely and simply that - it's lies. MARK SAGEMAN: They live in enclaves where their social life are the other women of jihadists. It's very much like military wives, where they live on base,

they meet every afternoon for tea and they gossip. I lived in an apartment block that belonged to the Taliban and it was full of Arabs. We were a community of about 500 families. So, who did I know? Who knows who I knew?

Rabiah married Mustafa Hamid. In a way, their own social status is dependant on the social status of the husband within the jihad. In Osama bin Laden's inner circle Rabiah's husband, Mustafa Hamid, was known was Abu al-Walid al-Masri. He was a al-Qaeda strategist and critic of bin Laden and the September 11 attacks. Abu al-Walid al-Masri is more of an ideologue within al-Qaeda. He was advising bin Laden on the general direction of al-Qaeda, but still felt independent enough to criticize bin Laden

when he felt that bin Laden's strategy was wrong, such as...the 9/11 operations.

There are a lot of wives of al-Qaeda people, they are free, for example, and they are nothing to do with what their husbands were doing. I actually had my own clinic, so I came into contact with anybody and everybody. But Rabiah has been accused of playing a more sinister role of acting as a conduit introducing foreigners to al-Qaeda, an allegation she has always denied. Rabiah, because of a long history of connection and relationship to the leadership of al-Qaeda, was able to broker a lot of introduction between Australians who tried to connect to al-Qaeda Central and al-Qaeda Central. According to Rabiah

her life in Afghanistan was about living her Islam, not about terrorism. What did it have to do with me being there and being involved in building wells and being a translator and delivering babies? Rabiah left her clinic in Kabul to work in the southern province of Kandahar. She was living in this Taliban stronghold on September 11, 2001.

Osama bin Laden perpetrated, in the eyes of the democratic leaders of the West

who are going to save the world, he perpetrated a crime against America and killed over 2,000 people or...led...the men who perpetrated this, or did this... I mean, let's not even think about the million children that died of starvation in Iraq or the Palestinians that have had their limbs ripped from them and ran over by a tank. All of that doesn't mean anything because they're Muslims. MAN SINGS It's not a bad thing for Islam what Osama bin Laden has said. DISTRESSED YELLING I believe that he has woken a lot of Muslims up to the oppression that they were under but didn't realise. SCREAMS Three months after September the 11th, Raisah bint Allan Douglas and her fifth husband, Omar Abdi Mohamed, welcomed a son, Zuhair.

Their first child arrived into a world full of uncertainty. I see that that day was the catalyst for change in our lives because... it was then, the war on terror, war on everything, war on us. Raisah stayed in Sydney with her seven children, and Omar returned to America. As a leader in the San Diego Somali community Omar wanted US citizenship. He had an interview scheduled with US Immigration on May 9, 2002. He shows up.

And, low and behold, when he shows up there is two agents. They had a camera, video camera, and they asked him, "We're going to interview, "and is it OK if we videotape you?" And Omar says, "Fine." It was unheard of before 9/11 that a person would be videotaped for a citizenship interview. US Immigration received an anonymous letter claming Omar had links to terrorist organisations.

It prompted a covert investigation into Omar's past. There were many questions raised by... what he was doing in the United States, who he was really working for, and the terrorist connections that he had. The interview was used to gather evidence.

The agents were well briefed. MAN: We knew that he was married to a spouse here in the United States and had children with that woman. At the same time, he was also married to an individual in Australia and had a family with her as well. When questioned about his family, Omar mentioned only one wife, his wife in San Diego. Because it is a country that does not allow polygamy. I know he didn't want to tell them about Raisah because he wants to become a citizen.

So, basically, he's caught in between

wanting to become a US citizen and this... ..the life that he's leading which is... he's not in a monogamous relationship, but he has two wives. US Immigration already knew about Raisah and that Omar had entered the US on a VISA obtained on false pretences. But they were more interested in Omar's San Diego charity,

the Western Somali Relief Agency. CHANTS RAISAH: But they helped the people, that's what they did. It was famine relief. The American Government had the belief. They had supposedly been given information from somebody inside that Omar was... He was running things and he was a big funder... The charity received money from Global Relief, an Islamic fundraising organisation. STEVEN EMMERSON: The US Treasury formally designated Global Relief as an al-Qaeda front in December 2001, and froze its assets. The Western Somali Relief Agency received well over $300,000 which, in light of the fact that the 9/11 attacks cost $550,000, was a fairly significant amount of money. The anonymous letter claimed Omar used his charity as a front to funnel these funds to al-Itihad, a Somali terrorist organisation with links to al-Qaeda. MEN CHANT STEVEN EMMERSON: Al-Itihad was actually one of the first groups that became a province of al-Qaeda in the early '90s when they attacked US troops in Mogadishu. And, obviously, most Americans and, indeed, most of the world, probably knows this episode through 'Black Hawk Down'. Oblivious to the case authorities were building against him, Omar continues is trans-Pacific life. Darling, can you hear me? Raisah fell pregnant again and struggled on her own. Yeah, it seems I do. No problem... Well, I could say that I was...upset, certainly, upset. I was, at times, depressed about it all

and would say, "Oh, no, I've got another baby and I'm on my own."

But Omar's words, Omar's letters, were always very, very, supportive of me and... He never let me down. Omar would be back in Australia for the birth of their second child, Zaynab, but would leave shortly after for his final US citizenship interview on January 22nd, 2004.

I went there knowing nothing. He never suspected a thing, walked through the door, he said the FBI were kind of both sides of the door... (Men yell) "And they just flung me," he said, "straight down on to the floor "and handcuffed me." He said there were so many guns pointed at him from every direction. MIGUEL UNZUELA: We had an indictment and arrest warrant for Omar. So the intent, at the second interview, was to place him under arrest and to interview him to see if he would be more forthcoming and more truthful in his answers, which he was not.

PEOPLE CHATTER Raisah was at home in Sydney when she heard about Omar's arrest. They considered it that they'd captured this fantastic, wonderful, big terrorist,

that was part of the African side, who was running al-Qaeda for Somalia for Osama bin Laden. And that's my husband they're talking about over there, and, oh, man... And Raisah was now of interest to authorities. Two women ASIO agents - one's tall, very blonde, and the other one's... Both of them young, again, about 29, 30, 31.

The other one's very well made-up with the bobbed brown hair. Um... Just looked like she'd had a boob job recently 'cause she was very, you know, like... Oh, my God, she looked like a reject from 'Sluts R Us', I'm telling you. She just had all this up here and...oh, my God. Anyway, so they go... "ASIO," and they've got these badges, and, "We want to interview you." Back in San Diego, the Somali community rallied around Omar. He was not charged with terrorism offences, but with immigration fraud. We're not able to prove any direct terrorist links between Omar and an organisation or a direct link to a terrorist. We do know that he was raising funds and that, in fact, Omar did send money ultimately to Africa. But where that money went, we were unable to trace it.

So my crime was I help with the poor people, that's it. But Omar remained in prison to stand trial for defrauding US Immigration. Now, the American Government is on record - you can find it in Google - that they will admit to using immigration law to neutralise people whom they believe are guilty

or they suspect them of other things, especially with terrorism. HORN BLARES On the other side of the world Raisah was dealing with the fallout. I had people walk on the other side of the street that did not want to be seen talking to me. ASIO were here, there and everywhere, and people were scared. Back home in Dubbo, Raisah's family stood by her. She railed against what she saw as the injustice of the post-September 11th world. The argument of Muslims, the argument of the umma, the Muslim umma, is that the West are invading our lands, killing our people, and... You man's terrorist can be somebody else's freedom fighter. What makes a person become a suicide bomber? Someone attacks your blood, your... That's more or less attacking you. You want revenge. And that's...that's what suicide bombing is, that's what it is. So I say that whilst it is a tragedy

and whilst it shouldn't happen, I say that I understand it. After 18 months in detention, Omar was found guilty of immigration fraud. He didn't appeal.

The level of his lies that he told the US Government suggests that he wasn't just a poor victim of a series of bad happenstance, but rather somebody who was a player in a worldwide radical Islamic movement

who knew al-Qaeda and perhaps helped recruit for al-Qaeda. I was framed, lied about, persecuted, jailed, sentenced in America, and I didn't do nothing, I was upstanding citizen. CREAKING You persecute people long enough, you make them angry long enough, know, that's when things happen, that's when things happen. You're pushed far enough. You're pushed far enough by these agencies with interference in your life. They hurt the people you love the most.

Jailing Omar was probably the most hurtful thing that happened to me in my life. On April 22, 2006, Omar was deported from the United States. He wasn't welcome in Australia. Raisah chose to join him in Nairobi, Kenya, where they embarked on a new life together with their two children. But the events of the last few years have left her scarred. (Omar and Raisah speak in foreign language) I said, "If I'm on the other side of the world "and Australian soldiers come upon our shore there, "be assured that my children will be in front... " give you the hard time you gave us." MAN SINGS On my orders, the United States military has begun strikes against al-Qaeda terrorist training camps and military installations of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

AIRCRAFT ROARS I was in the village with my children being sheltered by an Afghani family, purely and simply because we were being pursued like animals. GUNFIRE

The prospects of them taking my sons and placing them in Guantanamo was not a prospect I entertained. Not long after September 11th, Rabiah Hutchinson and her children fled from US forces in Afghanistan. She tells of a dramatic escape. DEBRIS FALLS They came in two days later and killed every man, woman and child in that village to teach those...stupid, ignorant Afghanistan Muslims "You're either with us or you're against us." And they killed over 200 people. What? Because they... ..they wouldn't hand me and my children over to the Americans? Believe it or not, do with it what you like, but it's the truth. Taliban leader Mullah Omar gave the edict in January 2002, for all foreign supporters to leave Afghanistan. Rabiah and her family left reluctantly. They were on the run for four months. Afghan was attacked because of September 11th. And it's about, "We cannot allow Islam "to succeed anywhere in the world." You tell me the Afghan people don't want Islam? It's a lie. I know it works, I lived it. Rabiah went to Iran, a country that was offering al-Qaeda leaders shelter from the West. She was there for quite some time, but she was there under a lot of pressure, a lot of stress. The Iranian secret police were harassing her. Certainly, the Iranians probably would have been aware of Mrs Hutchinson's...marriage to an important al-Qaeda person. And her fears about what they were up to are probably well founded. Rabiah's situation was becoming increasingly tenuous. She didn't really know what else to do so she had gone to the Australian Embassy. And then the Australian Embassy put her under house arrest in Iran um...for four months, I believe. And then they were told, "You either return to Australia "or you won't be getting documents from us "and we will leave you here in Iran stateless "and they can lock you up, do whatever they like." Rabiah and her children returned to Australia in October 2003. The country had changed remarkably since they'd left. September 11 had rocked the West and the Bali bombing had bought the fear of terror to home soil. Do I... ..feel for the people that died? Not as much as I feel for those 200 Afghani people that gave me and my children shelter. Hm! Mm-hm. Why? Because they weren't holidaying in someone's country,

you know...sometimes engaging in child pornography or paedophilia or...or drug taking. Authorities see Rabiah as threat to national security. The Australian government refused to renew her passport when it expired. I got a letter from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade saying, "We are the opinion that you have connections "with high-ranking officials of Jemaah Islamiah, "Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jamaah and al-Qaeda, "and if you were to travel overseas "you involved in violent political activities, "thereby causing the instability of..." (Sighs) I don't know. So, more or less, that she'll go out there, commit jihad in some country to overthrow a government, a legitimate government, like... Hamid Karsi, perhaps. Rabiah's two sons were also under scrutiny. When my youngest son tried to go to school ASIO was informed that he'd been to Pakistan and every time he did something normal like any 15-year-old, it was always, "We know you've trained in Pakistan." It was just absolutely ridiculous. They said, "We want to further our Islamic studies, "and there's nowhere here, and there's no Arabic, "so we'll go to Yemen." CAR HORN BLARES

And they did. They left for Yemen. MAN: I doubt they went there to study English literature. What we know about people who go there to study is that it's a radical brand of Islam. TELEPHONE RINGS I just got a phone call one day and Rahna said, "Mama, can you ring me?" And she was crying. And I rang her back and she said, "The boys have been arrested"

And then we found out that they were in a very notorious jail. In October 2006, Rabiah's sons, 19-year-old Mohammed and 21-year-old Abdullah, were imprisoned for allegedly smuggling weapons

to Somalia for al-Qaeda. They weren't smuggling weapons,

they had nothing to do with it. they were studying.

Nobody was smuggling weapons to Somalia. The thing that is in Yemen to be a member of al-Qaeda is not against the law anyway, and to sell arms is not against the law either. Mohammed and Abdullah were released after two months and deported. In the end they were just let go, but everything was destroyed. They weren't allowed to stay. They had to leave. Where were they going to go? I told them, "I don't care what it takes, do not come back here." Um... They went to stay with my friend in Africa. MACHINERY WHINES Rabiah's son stayed in Nairobi with Raisah and her husband Omar for three months. They had been tortured in a Yemeni prison... ..and couldn't come back to Australia because they know damn well once they hit Australian soil you're going to lock them up. And I said, "They've got nowhere to go. So I'm Auntie Rosalie." But her husband Omar's suspected involvement with Somali terrorist organisation al-Itihad sparked the interest of intelligence authorities. MIKE SCHEURER: The fact that the two boys were deported from Yemen and went to Nairobi, an important staging area for al-Qaeda, for the Itihad... You know, again, we have enough pieces on the table to say that this is probably not a coincidence that they would end up there. As a Muslim we are loyal to one another to death. The fall-down of the Taliban government was America said, "Hand over Osama, we'll leave you alone." And they said, "In Islam you never hand over a guest, "ever, to non-believers."

And so... For me, I wouldn't dream of saying that. If they came back again and again and again I would still take them no matter what the price. So...that's our duty. From Nairobi Rabiah's sons went to Lebanon

where they joined radical Sydney cleric Sheikh Feiz, the man who had introduced Raisah to polygamy. ..that can ever be written. They went from there to Sheikh Feiz, but actually in Australia they were living with Sheikh Feiz. Well, he's in Lebanon, because he can't be in Australia

because they want to get him for incitement. CAR HORNS BEEP Rabiah's sons remain in the Middle East... TAPPING ..while she is trapped in Australia, her activities obstructed by authorities. I think she would be of great interest to jihadi-wannabes just as a role model. She's a critical element because she's a source of inspiration. People are afraid to visit me. ASIO visited this girl, this woman, absolutely and utterly terrorised the life out of her and she was so paranoid that she hasn't spoken to me since. The surveillance of Mrs Hutchinson probably is something that seems very reasonable in the sense of protecting Australians at home. Certainly, I...I can't remember a person living in the United States, for example,

who had so much exposure over so long a period to senior al-Qaeda...leaders. There is hardly a week goes by in my life that when I go out into the street I'm not told, "Go back from where you came from." What? They want me to move back to Mudgee. I don't want to live in Mudgee. "We don't want you here.

"If they don't like it here, leave."

Well, give me my passport and I will be out of here yesterday. MAN SINGS UPBEAT DRUMMING (People chatter) Raisah is now living in Kenya with her husband Omar and their two children. Her other six children are in Australia. I feel very sad about leaving my kids in Australia. It's... I feel tortured. I feel really like... I said to Omar, "I wish I could just cut myself into two pieces." Though Raisah and Omar have moved continents, they haven't escaped the past. You know, we live under a microscope,

there's not much we get away with, so... (Laughs) what the hell? They know when we have a shower, what we eat, where we buy, etc. I think, ultimately, Omar and I will end up living in Somalia. Ultimately, people would like to see a return of Omar to the...forefront of Somalia. And I would be there beside him, all the way. MEN CHANT MARK SAGEMAN: They think that it's special,

it's a sense of specialness, that once they fall within that group then it's very hard to go back almost to your life of insignificance. Rabiah Hutchinson has no choice - her past has robbed her of a future. I just have to keep reminding myself that I am a 54-year-old grandmother that is in a country that I don't want to be in, separated from my children. Rabiah is now a prisoner in the country of her birth. I would defend Islam with my life, so that makes me a filthy, dirty, sub-human terrorist that deserves anything that anybody and everybody wants to do to them. But at the end of the day, it doesn't deter me from my faith and it only makes me stronger. That looks terrible. Don't cliche like... That looks bad.

Little Abdullah and little Osama bin Laden is hanging out the car with an AK47.

"The bloke can have a harem if he wants, four wives. "Isn't it like that in the movies, mate?" Yeah. No. Doesn't happen that way. Maximum of four and very strict rules. What did you get? Guantanamo colours. If anything, Raisah has had a wild existence. (Muffled) ...little bit in the wild ways. Maybe it's an Australian way to live. (Chuckles) Closed Captions by CSI .. CC Hello and welcome to Foreign Correspondent for 2008, I'm Mark Corcoran. This year I'll be presenting stories from the ABC's team of international correspondents, and still getting out there myself as often as possible. Our reporters have had little time for rest over the break, they've been out on the road already. Tonight - the woman who would be president. Tracy Bowden joins Hillary Clinton on the long hard road to the White House. Would we ever elect a woman president? And carbon crims -

Norway's bold green approach to crime and punishment. In a few hours Americans will be voting in what's being dubbed 'Super Duper Tuesday'. It's a critical step in the long and complicated process to elect the next US President. The Democratic candidacy has become a closely fought battle between two history making contenders the charismatic Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. If Clinton wins - what sort of president would she be? To find out, Washington correspondent Tracy Bowden hits the campaign trail, speaking to the senator's friends and foes.

RADIO ANNOUNCER: 7:50 now, 10 minutes before 8 o'clock,

keeping you up to date on KCAA here in southern California. Super Tuesday coming up next Tuesday. They call California America's golden state, so golden that almost 37 million people have chosen to live here. SAXAPHONE PLAYS Voters in this political and economic powerhouse are about to get their first chance to have a say in the presidential contest. Obama! Obama! Well, I don't like a lot about Hilary, that's the unfortunate dilemma, but I think that she's a seasoned pro and that she knows Washington, she knows the people. I'm a Republican, but I don't like the Republican field. So, we wouldn't vote for the Clintons, you notice I used an 's', but we like Obama. I was wondering if Hillary can count on your support? The Clinton camp has launched a State-wide offensive to reach voters,