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The Business -

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(generated from captions) paid to the regulatory

requirements around the tax,

the existing regulations that

were in place, and this is a

good opportunity to have a look

at it. We're unaware of your

views to a large degree. Do

you share the belief that your

predecessor, Heather Ridout,

had that there does need to be

a price on carbon and it should

be regulated through an emissions trading scheme?

We've taken this view over a

long time. This dates back to

2006 and 2007 when there was first discussion under the

Howard Government how to

address these issues. I think

you alluded to earlier the

Howard Government Haas was

looking at an emissions trading

scheme. This has been an

inevitable in the public policy debate in Australia. The

question is how best to frame

it. Do we need a carbon tax.

Do we need an emissions trading

scheme. What price should

there be. I make a couple of

points on price. $20 tonne

rescalculating to $26 tonne

ever the next couple of years

before the emissions trading

scheme is introduced is too

high a price. We've argued for

a long time there should be a

softer starting price at around

$10 a tonne which is a figure I

hear much more frequently to

the public policy debate.

Compared to our European

competitors we're putting

ourselves at a major

disadvantage. Do you take the

view and do the combined

industry and business groups

take the view this could still

be changed or is it now

inevitable it is going to be

that price? How much pressure

xout on Government if you think

it can be changed? It's been

legislated. It is very hard to

turn the legislation around.

Government has an agreement

with the Greens. This is by

chance or by happenstance,

defending on your viewpoint,

this was the price the Greens

took to the last election, $23

a tonne, but this is a function

in many ways of a political

discussion. It's happening

from July 1. We need to make

this transition as easy as

possible for business. We'll

come back to the price again

once we see in operation. A

final question - what's your

view on the coalition policy of

controlling emissions through

direct Government intervention?

Still needs some work, think.

It still needs to be fleshed

out we need to see detail on

that. The important thing from

the Opposition they have agreed

to the same target in terms of

remissions reduction. The

question is how we get there. We're continuing to talk to the

Opposition about their

approach. It still needs some

work. It is a work in

progress. I'm sure you'll hear

more from them as time goes

on. Innes Willox, we'll hear

more from you as time goes on

I'm sure. For your first

interview on Lateline we thank

you very much for being

there. Thanks, Tony.

there. Thanks, Tony.

Australia has farewelled one

of Labor's luminaries, the

Lionel Bowen. He was hailed as Former Deputy Prime Minister

a man of character, conviction

and deep humility. At his

State Funeral service at saint

Mary act's Cathedral in Sydney

Lionel Bowen spent 42 years in politics riding from Randwick

mayor to Deputy Prime

Minister. Like no other person

I met in parliamentary life

respected and add MIR admire

ed acrossthe factions and the

parties and loved by all of his

staff, this warm, wise, decent,

generous, humble, this unique

man. Lionel Bowen had eight

children and a marriage that

lasted 60 years. He died at

the age of 89. As we go, the US Pacific Tsunami Warning

Centre has cancelled its

tsunami watch for the Indian

Ocean after the earthquake off

Sumatra. To tomorrow's


That's all from us. You loss

like to lack back at tonight's

interview with Penny Wong or

Innes Willox or review any of

Lateline's stories and

transcript visit our website,

follow us on Twitter and

FaceBook. The Business is

coming up with Ticky Fullerton.

I'll see you again tomorrow.

Captions by CSI Until then, goodnight. Closed

News. Closed Captions by CSI. Buying Buying Australian, is

it bailing out business? New

rules from July to help the country's struggling steel

makers win major contracts.

This is an endeavour by the

Commonwealth to make sure that

Australian businesses get a

Commonwealth fair go. I'm Ticky Fullerton

Business. Business. This Program is

Captioned Live.

The Federal Government says

help is at hand with a new plan

to share the boom around. The

ailing steel industry says it

is just a what the doctor

ordered. It is also being

slammed as protectionism. That familiar sinking feeling, slammed as protectionism. That j?

nervous investors flee as Eurozone fears Eurozone fears batter

stockmarkets yet again.

M-commerce for E-shoppers.

The phone friendly websites stockmarkets

cashing in on mobile consumers.

First a quick look at those

markets. The relative calm has

ended with plunging on both of

the Atlantic he hassian falls

more muted. The All Ordinaries

closed 1%. In Japan the Nikkei

was down on Eurozone worries.

A fair go for Australian

business, that's what the

Federal Government says is

driving driving new rules to help local

manufacturers compete for major

projects. The struggling steel

industry says it is a bad

needed win but critics say the

needed win plan is just protectionism.

Simon Palan reports. Battling a

high Australian dollar, labour

costs and red tape, many

Australian businesses are being

left behind by competition from

Simon overseas. Now the Federal

Government has confirmed a plan

to help them. This is an

endeavour by the Commonwealth

to make to make sure that Australian

businesses get a fair go. From

July 1, new laws take effect

giving local manufacturers a giving

better chance of winning

contracts on projects which

receive more than (2) 000-0000

in Federal funding. At least

one economist says the plan

amount amount to protectioncism ism.

manufacturers If you exclude international

manufacturers you might end up

paying a higher price for a particular manufactured

item. It is being welcomed by

the union. This is about

ensuring that we veers the

trend of what's going on in

Australia's resource projects

for far too long. Recent studies from the Australian for

Steel Institute has shown up to

90 per cent of componentry on

major resource jobs at the

moment is coming from foreign

sources. At a crisis meet of

steel workers Paul Howes lashed

out at the Reserve Bank for not

cutting interest rates. I

believe the RBA has made the

wrong call. I think that

manufacturing industry, in fact

most home aye owners in country

need a cut in need a cut in interest rates. Wants the Federal

Government to review the

Reserve Bank's charter. Government says that's not

going had top. Paul Howes

represents a small part of the

economy in terms of union and industry and it is very

dangerous if governments are

influenced by these types of minorites. Paul Howes has found

some support from business

groups. The Reserve Bank board

if it is concerned about the

position of small businesses,

jobs and the economy's growth,

needs to reduce interest rates

not by a quarter of a percent,

but by a full 50 basis points.

And new data shows consumers

could also do with some rate

relief, a key measure of

consumer sentiment fell 1.6% in

April, the lowest read ing

ineight months. Economists were

expecting a stronger result

after signs of global economic

improvement and after the

Reserve Bank pointed to the

potential for an interest rate

cut when it meets next month. cut

I think there's no doubt the

run of economic data in

Australia is consistent with

the Reserve Bank needing to cut

interest rates. There was

another new piece of official

data supporting that view. The

number of home loans fell 2.5%

in February underlining

continued weakness in the

housing market. I'll be talking

to aluminium products manufacturer Capral chief to

Philip Jobe later in the show

for his thoughts on that story

and anti dumping. The Easter

break has done nothing to calm

investors' nerves with markets

taking another battering

overnight and once again it is

Spain causing an anxiety attack

Government's plan to restore

its budget failing to impress.

Neal Woolrich reports for

us. Another day, another plea

for calm from European leaders.


decided yesterday confirms both the Spanish Government's

determination to implement the

necessary reforms and

furthermore, the Spanish Government's commitment to

respect the 5.3% deficit for

2012. But whatever euro leaders

are selling right now investors

aren't buying. It was another

night of red ink on global

market after is Spain's be

convincing plan to turn around

a big budget self T deficit

send the country's bond yield

to a four month high. We've

had I very strong run as well

for the last two or three

months and some correction was

appropriate. After a strong first

first quarter in 2012, the

major global indices have

tumbled between 4 and 7% in the

past week, compared to

Australia's relatively mild 2%

fall. Aside from Spain's problems, investors are also

worried about China's plans to

trim growth to 7.5% this year.

The US caused a stir on Good

Friday after its payrolls

report came in well below

expectations. This is the

most watched number on any

calendar anywhere in the world.

All of a sudden, when you don't

meet expect /* expected tastes

become become concerned. Sentiment was very concerned. Sentiment

poor in August and September

last year. It probably wasn't

hard to surprise initially on

the upside and then we got to

the point now where perhaps the

consensus view is the US

recovery is entrenched, so anything that challenges that

will be poorly received. Here

in Australia, the local market

continues to underperform,

especially compared to the US.

In part that's due to the

strong Australian dollar. But

it's also because the local

Bourse is heavily weighted

towards resources and banks two, sectors whose best days towards resources

might be numbered. There's a

mild form of deleveraging in

Australia, people are saving a

bit more, there's not a Australia,

in the banking stocks. The

mining sector which traditional

trades on a low he rating. UBS's head of

Commonwealth management George

Boubouras says many of the best

investment opportunities lay

overseas. The emerging world

will grow 5.5% this calendar

rather, the developed world

1.3%. Companies are best

placed to leverage after those earnings and all those companies

companies pretty much based

offshore. A grim outlook for

the domestic market despite

Australia having one of the better performing economies in the developed world. The the International Monetary Fund has

echoed calls from Australia's

business leaders for the

windfall gains of the resources

boom to be spent on nation

building infrastructure. The

IMF has spoken out as it warns

that commodity price are set to

fall in the next 12 months. It

says resources producing countries should be preparing

for that now while commodity

prices are still high. If

governments do not use the

opportunity provided by

commodity, strong commodity

prices to build the savings and

buffers, then if those prices

fall suddenly, then they would

find according our findings,

the domestic economy would take

a hit. While Australia didn't

rate a specific mention, the

IMF says building

infrastructure will improve

long-term productivity in an

economy. However, last week the Business Council noted that

Australia has fallen to number

37 in the globe list of quality of

of infrastructure. There was

little cheer for investors here.

here. The local market taking

its lead from overseas as Wall

Street had its worst day of the

year. I spoke earlier to Street

Charlie Aitken. Charlie

Aitken, an ominous lead from

offshore. I suppose it could

have been worse here. Yes. It

is not often that you see the

market down 46 points or 1% market down 46 points or 1% it

wasn't too bad an effort. It

wasn't in the scheme of things.

Wall Street having its worst

day of 2012. The market hang

ing inreason Glee well. The

Australian market has done poorly in

poorly in a global and regional

context this year and it is probably

probably fair we didn't go down

as much as Wall Street. Let's

hope that continues. Resources

and financial seem to have the

heaviest selling. Was anything

doing bet sner The defensive

perceived defensive stocks do

better. That was absolutely

what happened.


supermarket, toll roads and

casinos and gaming stocks all

doing well. Most of those are

actually up on the day which showed there was rotation from

market linked earners and the

resource stocks to those

defensive sectors. BHP Billiton

has commit to a $700 million

spend on the mag dog field in

the Gulf of Mexico. Is that

significant? It seems that

everything BHP says now a days

sees the shares fall. They had

another tough day today losing

2%. Their capex over the next

five years, 80 million, 2.7

million isn't up much. They tarnt take a trick at tarnt take a trick at the

moment BHP. It doesn't matter

The what they say at the moment.

The shares are being

derated. Ethnic Kell player mincorp resources had

production figures and a

project update out today.

Anything catch your eye there?

It was good to see the stock

rally. Nickel stocks have Doon

very poorly of rate for a

variety of reasons, mostly

being ethnic Kell price being

hitting a four year low. The

production values were good.

Amar at the time in tough

resources the market reiterated

the shares a bit. A bit of

good news there. Official

employment numbers out

tomorrow. How important is

that for the market March was a

tough market for employment in

Australia. Interestingly,

economist misses are

forecasting the community's

added 35,000 jobs in March. I

would be surprised if that's

the case. It could be a market

moving number ramifications for

Watch the equity market tomorrow.

Watch the screens around 11 o'clock. We will be doing just o'clock. We will

that. Thank you very much for

talking to us Charlie

Aitken. Thanks Ticky. To the

other major movers on the local

sharemarket now. Computershare

led the information technology

sector down. Woodside

Petroleum fell as it starts its

drilling campaign at west

Australia's rolly reef. Webjet

rose as it upgraded its

full-year profit outlook and full-year profit outlook and rose

Ten Network dipped on

expectations of a poor

first-half result under new

boss James Warburton. Turning

to currency markets, the

Australian dollar edged up

after touching a 14 week low.

In commodities, in New York,

oil is just over $101, gold

inched down. Back to our top story, Government's plans to

give Australian manufacturers

more of a play in the resources

boom. Will it work? Capral is

the country's largest maker of

aluminium structures for the

residential and commercial

market and a member of peak

body Manufacturing Australia.

Since 2008, Capral's battled a

rising dollar, cyclical lows,

lost almost 40% of its

workforce, it has been busy

restructuring and it is no

stranger to foreign import

competition. Chief Executive

and managing director Philip

Jobe joins me now. Welcome to

the program. Thank

Ticky. Tell me, should

manufacturers feel a lot better

off about these Australian been industry parties plans

industry parties plans we have

been hearing about? It is a

positive. We should be pleased

with anything that helps. I

think we should take some

comfort from today's announcements. Greg Combet said

there would be increased scrutiny for particularly large

private resource projects over

lose twos billion dollars that may

lose their Taro concession on

imports if they don't use one

of these Australian industry

participation plans.

Understood these big projects

that actually got these want

Taro concessions already had to Taro concessions already had

industry complete with an Australian

industry plan. Tariff

industry concessions. Is there a lot of

gaming that goes on there. Is

that what we're saying? That's

the view from a lot of big

companies. Mainly the steel

companies, they believe there's

been gaming. Hopefully, this

see will tighten it up and we'll

see concrete results out of it. What sort of gaming goes it. What

on? You've looked quite

closely of these sorts of

areas, haven't you It depend

how you define local content.

We believe it should be

tradable good. To give a

smaller example, using catering

should that be classed as local

content. What you're saying a

resources company could be uses

supply of local Kattering for

element their workers as the Australian

element rather than steel

products in What we're really

interested is the tradable

goods, style, aluminium, a

product like like that. That's

this what's important. One thing

this could do is make things a

bit more transparent so you

stop companies doing things

liken shoring that the bids

happen for stuff that won't

chutes one supplier, pes

specific types of pipes or

whatever. Yes. Breaking it

down so awe producers get a

fair go at tendering, I think fair

that's a positive step. I had

an story from a cast iron

source that early in the boom a

couple of big multi-nationals

met with Government and told

them that the Chinese buyers of

oar were saying we'll buy it

but the quid pro quo is that

but you will then use our steel

products in your minding

services. They told the Government that it was no skin


government should know about government of their nose but perhaps the

it. That

it. That was quite early on in

the boom. Are what we're

seeing now too little too late?

That may well have happened.

It may well still be happening.

Look, Australian manufacturing

definitely needs to do some

positive things and hopefully

this will create more product

for Australian industry and if

it does, think I it is about

for implementation and if it is

well done, and people are

good serious about it, it will be

good for Australia. It should

have impact presumably on steel

imports. Is it going to have

any impact on Capral as an

aluminium manufacturer? I'd

love to say a big yes. The

reality is in mining they tend

not to use a lot of

mallium. Why is that? If you

have aluminium and steel and it

clashes, you get spark and if there's methane gas around

that's not a good

combination. I didn't know

that. You don't have a lot of

aluminium in mining

unfortunately. One of the

issues you were very worried

about obviously, it is related,

is the issue of anti-dumping.

You lost I think more than a third

third of your market to Chinese

imports in the past 10 years

that. Must translate to jobs. How

How have the Chinese done that?

Well, I think a lot of your

audience would be really amazed

at just what is happening in

Australian industry and cheap

imported product. I'm a firm

believer if we lose work

because we're not genuinely

competitive, that's fine,

that's business, but there's a

lot of product coming into

Australia from China which is

heavily subsidised by their

Government and you've got to

remember - We know that ? We

know that. The USA have had a

case and proved that, Canada

have had a case and proved

that, we have had a case and

proved that, but under the

laws, as they exist in

Australia, we're very knee

Nick. We don't question the

same results. Chinese supplying

cheap subsidised aluminium to

the equivalent of Capral in

China? Yes. They bring it in.

One of the things people don't

fully understand is that the

Ewan to Australian dollar has

moved by 50% in the last

decade. If Australia was to manipulate its currencies by 20%,

20%, we do a whole lot better too. That's what the Chinese

do. Why don't we go to the WTO

about something like this? You

can, but - and other countries

do and there are ways you can

run these court cases, but

Australia in 2005 recognised

China as a market economy. One

of the unintended consequences

of that is that our anti-dumping measures and

options were severely limited.

Now, that is causing

Now, that is causing massive problems right now. Because you

had a case which you took and

the Government actually, as I understand it, supported your

case, that there was a case of

anti-dumping. Yes. What was

the remedy? We got between 90

and 6%, whereas the same cases

for the same product in the USA

and in Dan received over 30%.

Nought chup chup. In terms of

the duties on the imported goods

goods on these dumped products.

It says as a problem with Australia's anti-dumping It

regime. Weed into to do

something about it. That's

because we recognise China as a

market economy? In large

measure yes. Does Canada or the UK

UK recognise China. No, they

don't. No-one recognises China

a full market economy. We need

to find answers to that and do

it quickly. The government has

put through three tree or four

tranches of anti-dumping. What

else needs to be done from your

point of view. We're pleased the

the Government is acting.

We're supposed pleased with

the support from the unions and

Paul Howes and others. They're

good measures. It doesn't go to the core of the problem.

The problem is even if you do

get dumping duties in

Australia, it seems like the

exporters find ways around

them, so there's massive

circumvention of duties, circumvention of duties, we

need to do a lot more

compliance. . We need to keep

people honest. We need to find

ways we can handle this

currency manipulation in or

anti-dumping laws. Until we

do, Australia's going to be really suffering. Philip Jobe, really

thank you very much for joining

us tonight. Thank you,

Ticky. BHP Billiton has announced it will stop production at one of its

us Central Queensland coal mines

resulting in an uncertain

future for 1,500 workers. The

company says its Norwich mine

has been losing money for

months T says last year's

floods, lower coal prices and

profit falls have taken their

toll. The mining union says

the decision is a heavy blow.

We're very concerned. Obviously, it will mean major

change for the employees and obviously no time say good time

to be told that you I don't

have a job. BHP says it will

try to redeploy some of the workers to its other mines in

the area. The closure comes as

a long-running enterprise

bargaining dispute between BHP

and staff at 7 of its Central

Queensland mines continues. Fair Work Australia today held

a hearing to try to resolve the

matter and set down another

sitting for next week. And one

of the world's biggest our

rainium miners is preeng to

rush to its underground mine surrounded by Kakadu National

Park. Energy Resources of

Australia posted a $154 noilion

loss last year after its Ranger

Mine closed for five months due

to extreme wet weather. At its

AGM in Darwin today, ERA said

it was still pumping water from

the pit T hopes to start mining

again soon, but this is the

last year of open-cut mining at

ranger. ERA says the mine's

future lies further underground

with work on an exploration

tunnel to start in at least two weeks. In

weeks. In the first 100 metres

of the decline will be

completed before the end of the

year. A very exciting stage of

development for ERA. ERA says

the company's relationship with

traditional owners is stronger

than ever. The final decision

on the expansion is expected in

2014. When it comes to doing

business online it pays to get

mobile. An explosion in

smartphone technology is seeing

shopper buy anywhere any time.

Retailers are scrambling to

adapt, making phone friendly

websites to keep up with fierce

competition from overseas. One

expert is warning local

regulations are outdated and

without urgent action, mobile

commerce could become the wild

west. west. A SOS the British E tailer shaking up shopkeepers.

Since setting up its Australian

site in September the been

quietly shipping two jumbo jets

worth of fashion to consumer

here every week while local

retail in the doldrums.

Australia is the second largest

territory for A SOS behind the

UK and certainly we are the

ranked as number 1 most visit add apparel site in

Australia. A SOS has eclipsed

the upmarket site in online

sales purposing over $500

million last year. There was a Chris malsales spike from

shopper using mobile phones and

portable computer. We saw 18%

of our traffic go through a

mobile device. EBay says more

than half of its top 2000

sellers say 2012 will be the

first year they invest in

mobile commerce and they're not first mobile commerce and they're not

alone. David Jones is working

on a mobile specific version of

its web store and sports girl

is leading the pack with a

mobile platform and interactive

mirrors that allow shoppers to

buy an outfit, post a picture

online and get instant feedback

from their friends. It is no

longer just enough to have a

website. It is actually how

you're engaging with her, how

you're communicating to her,

how you're giving her an

experience online to get her

coming back to your online

environment and to your

business. Buying on the go can

be a mine filed. Cyber

criminals, a trillion dollars a

year by fraud and denial of service

service attacks and other kinds

of cyber kriemsz. With new

shops and ands available every

day consumers are facing an

uphill battle working out which

sites are safe. One expert says

the laws lagging 15 years

behind the technology. We

have to find a new structure

for managing these

technologies, otherwise it is just

just a wild west and consumers just

will be harmed. Sydney's

University of Technology is

developing an industry code to

encourage best practice and

crackdown on rogue operators.

Penalties could include fines

or naming and shaming. But any

regulations a long way off and regulations

in the meantime business cart

afford to ignore mobile

sales. A customer want to be able

able to shop how they want,

when they want, where they want

but and if you don't provide

that, they'll shop with someone

else. The message is clear. If

If you're not Mobil ready

you're missing out. And in

other stories making business

news NBN Co the company building Australia's National when Broadband Network has had

chosen the Gold Coast for the

new customer contact centre.

100 new jobs will be 100 new jobs will be creayacht

over the next year. It says

the new centre will handle the

anticipated escalation with NBN

inquiries. Tasmanian timber

producer Gunns is considering

changingist name and moving its headquarters interstate in a

bid to attract more

international investment. A

spokeswoman for the Launceston

based company says Melbourne is

one of the cities being

considered. Gunns lodge aid

trademark application for the name name Enpax Australia last

month. The company has

extended its monthly trading

halt as it negotiate as a $400

million capital raising what's making business news in

overseas newspapers. . London's 'Financial Times' says

the White House is promoting

the Buffet Rule which would set

a minimum tax of 30% on the

income of millionaires as it

attempts to establish a stark

contrast with Mitt Romney, Mr

Obama's likely Republican

challenger and a former venture

capitalist. And that is the

Business. You can watch the

show Monday to Thursday at 8.30

each night on ABC News 24 as

well as after Lateline on ABC1.

I'm Ticky Fullerton, thank you

for watching. Goodnight. Closed Captions by CSI We are all liars, except for me. How are you today? I'm fine, thanks. In conversations when we try to impress one another, we lie three to four times every ten minutes. And of course, some of us lie much more than that. On the Watergate tapes, US President Richard Nixon was found to have lied 837 times on a single day. People have got to know whether or not their president's a crook. Well, I'm not a crook. That shirt will look great on you. Really? Really. In job interviews, up to 40% of us embellish, distort, or just plain lie. It says here you're Irish. To be sure! Racist! But 99% of these statistics come from the internet, so they could be bullshit. This week I'm exploring the murky world of manipulation. Do you trust me? ? Theme music Humans have tried to catch liars out for thousands of years. The first account of a lie detector comes from the Hindu scriptures from 900BC. It describes how to recognise a liar. It says, 'A person who nervously evades questions, speaks nonsense and scratches their head may be a liar.' Or Woody Allen. In West Africa, they used to hand suspects bird's eggs, hoping that the liar would be so anxious he'd break the eggs in his trembling fingers. (GAVEL POUNDS) MAN: Guilty! While the ancient Chinese believed a dishonest person to be so nervous they would have problems producing saliva. So, in a trial, the accused had to stuff their mouth full of rice. Just answer the question! (Mumbles) If the rice was still dry by the end of the prosecutor's speech, he was deemed... (GAVEL POUNDS) Guilty. In the late 19th century, Cesare Lombroso invented a device to test the pulse and blood pressure of suspects in police cases. His instrument became the precursor of what's known as the polygraph machine. Today they're controversial and not seen as credible in most courts of law. But they do prove extremely useful to DAYTIME TV TALK SHOWS! (Cheering, applause) The results show you cheated! Ah... (BEEP) (Booing, beeping) But can you really tell the difference between a liar who's nervous about getting caught and an innocent person who's nervous about being interrogated? Whether you use eggs, rice or even polygraphs, perhaps there's no foolproof way to detect lies. And that is my thought of the day. (Crunch!) So how do you become a better liar? Well, you have to learn from the best. I want to learn from someone who lies for a living. Now, Max Markson wasn't available, so I'm about to meet an undercover cop. He suggests we meet at this top-secret location.