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(generated from captions) few days of boys being boys. HEATH: So we had our Now we just have to pay for it. And pay for it and pay and pay and pay and pay... International Pty Ltd Captioning and Subtitling Closed Captions provided by This program is captioned live. Good morning. Welcome to Insiders, with the news overnight returned in both SA and Tasmania - that Labor Governments have been with increased majorities. and both of them at the federal level, That means despite Labor's woes State and Territory elections. they have now won 19 successive it was a 'Rannslide' - In South Australia, from the Liberals Labor gaining seven seats working majority to give it a comfortable for the first time in decades. And in Tasmania, has won 14 of the 25 seats - Paul Lennon's government enough to govern in its own right. the balance of power, The Greens, hoping to gain went backwards. We'll go to Adelaide first Simon Royal. and ABC 'Stateline' presenter,

How xrae hen sif was the victory

Rann and the Labor Party? How xrae hen sif was the victory for

Absolutely, completely Rann and the Labor Party?

comprehensive. It's the sort of

victory where unless Labor does a

string of dopey things or one big

dopey thing, it's a two-term Vic

stree. They have restored their

primary vote. Last night our

computers were showing that the

swing was around 8%. The papers

morning are showing around 10%. swing was around 8%. The papers this

Labor looks like it has 28 seats,

may pick up another two, the Labor looks like it has 28 seats, it

Liberals have 13. A couple

and some independents who were Liberals have 13. A couple undecided

Liberal independents whom the

Liberal Party hasn't managed to win

those seats back either. Of course

the Premier there inherited just 10

seats when he first took on the job.

Where have the Liberals gone so

wrong? Well, that's a long story,

some ways. You could say it was 30 wrong? Well, that's a long story, in

years of infighting in the Liberal

Party, but effectively, this

campaign, their campaign failed to

contain Labor's win. You could

that Labor was always going to win contain Labor's win. You could argue

partly through a matter of luck,

partly because they would've got

another chance to govern in their

own right. But the Liberals made

some fundamental strategic mistakes.

They spoke very early on in the

campaign of cutting 4,000 public

servants as a means to pay for

promises such as increasing

compensation to people having

difficulty paying their electricity

bills. Now, they should've been

focusing on Labor's failure to

deliver cheaper power which is one

of their key pledges last time.

Instead they made themselves the

issue and their plan to cut the

public service the issue. They

didn't have a television ad until

the last week. And then it had to

pulled because they'd misspelt the the last week. And then it had to be

word Labor. So there were a series

of of strategic mistakes. If just

don't think the Liberals had the

hunger to win this campaign. I mean,

a couple of times, the remark was

made know by Liberals "Mike Rann

will have a very difficult time in

government this term because he's

pledged two Cabinet positions to

Conservative independents who pledged two Cabinet positions to the

supported him in government last

time." Now, four years of

time in government, you know, bless time." Now, four years of difficult

me, that's a terrible time for

Labor, versus, what, four years of

fabulous time in opposition? It

spoke of the lack of hunger that fabulous time in opposition? It just

Liberal Party brought to this spoke of the lack of hunger that the

campaign. I think that was their

fundamental faimg. South Australia

is the home of the Democrats.

the story there? Tears for the is the home of the Democrats. What's

Democrats. Their vote has collapsed.

They now have one member of

Parliament, Sandra Kank, the

parliamentary leader. They were

outpolled by Family First,

by the Greens, outpolled by Nick outpolled by Family First, outpolled

Xenophon, the real story of this

campaign. But the Democrats said

that they'd been rebuilding here.

wasn't reflected in their vote. that they'd been rebuilding here. It

have one asset left in South wasn't reflected in their vote. They

Australia, apart from Sandra in

Parliament and that's Natasha Stott

Despoja and so it will be

interesting to see over the coming

weeks, and months, whether she

re-evaluates her position,

the party, whether she starts re-evaluates her position, vis-a-vis

a higher profile, whether there is the party, whether she starts taking

talk of a return to Natasha as

leader, or whether she strikes out

and does it alone, because I think

one of the lessons from - as one

political analyst put it last night,

she will be looking from the

from Xenophon's campaign and she will be looking from the lessons

thinking she would be better off

alone. Tell us about that campaign?

Nick Xenophon came into the Upper

House eight years ago on a no

platform. He got in because of the House eight years ago on a no pokies

elaborate cocktail of preferences

which so often delivers seats and

power to minor parties in the

country's Upper Houses. This time,

he had no preference deals, the

major parties would've preferred

out of the place because he has major parties would've preferred him

a real thorn in their side. He had out of the place because he has been

no preference deals, he has won 2.5

quotas in his own right. 160,000

votes when I looked at the web site

this morning. That's only 30,000

less than the Liberal Party got. I

think if you look at Xenophon and

the campaign that was run here,

Labor ran a presidential campaign.

It ran and won a presidential

campaign, but Nick won a

presidential vote and by that I

mean, there are very few

around the country who could point mean, there are very few politicians

to an electorate and say "I won 150,

150,000 votes solely because of me, to an electorate and say "I won

not because of a party, not because

of rusted old tradition, not

I was the lesser of two evils and of rusted old tradition, not because

the Upper House there were 54 I was the lesser of two evils and in

varieties of evil to choose from.

He won as a personal vote about varieties of evil to choose from."

he has done over the past eight the He won as a personal vote about what

year and it's extraordinary. Simon,

thank you for that. To Hobart now reporter, Gary Magnussen. and the ABC's State political

Majority government for Paul Lennon.

Does that come as a surprise in

This election was always about

whether there would be a Labor

minority government. The surprise majority government or a Labor

was that Labor has managed to hang

on to 14 seats and perhaps increase

to 15 seats. The shock of the

campaign was the Greens, who were

looking to increase from four seats

to five and possibly six seats, in

fact they lost a seat, they're now

down to three. They've lost major

party status. Was that the last

minute story of the campaign in the

end, that the voters feared a

minority government, they actually

voted for stability? In a sense,

Barrie. The Labor Party started out

from the very beginning of the

campaign saying that this campaign

was in fact - this election was in

fact all about majority government,

that the sky would cave in if the

Greens were in minority on the

balance - holding the balance of

power there, and they were running

campaigns such as the economy would

collapse, and extreme policies

collapse, and extreme policies could be introduced. Not only was it

be introduced. Not only was it Labor campaigning against the Greens on

the minority government issue, it

was also the Liberals and a shadowy

group, as well as a religious group

called the Extreme Bretheren.

What now for the Liberal Party in

Tasmania? Well, it was a train

Tasmania? Well, it was a train wreck last time. They only got seven

last time. They only got seven seats this. Time round, they look like

they've held seven seats. They

they've held seven seats. They might increase to eight seats, but there

were some pretty sad faces around

the tally room last night. Their

leader will probably be hung out to

dry, Rene Hidding for the next week

or two, cop the flak over the loss,

and then they will bring in a new

leadership team. We understand that

was a deal that was stitched up

before they even went to the polls

that. Will be headed by Will

Hodgeman, the son of Michael, the

so-called mouth from the south.

Will Michael get be a opportunity

Will Michael get be a opportunity to vote for his son? He is back. He

said you can be assured of one

thing, Michael has my vote. Gary,

thanks for that. For more now on the State elections and the rest of the overnight news, it's good morning to Mimi Kwa. Thanks, Barrie. Good morning, everyone. In Tasmania, the Greens leader has blamed a fear campaign for the unexpected loss of one seat and party status in the Parliament. Tasmania's Labor Party defied several polls that had predicted a minority government, winning 14 seats.

But the Greens leader described the campaign as "grubby".

Forces were at work behind the

scenes, trying to covertly

scenes, trying to covertly influence the outcome. CROWD BOO The Liberal Opposition won seven seats, but Liberal leader Rene Hidding was optimistic. The Liberal vote has been dropping for some 14 years in Tasmania, and tonight we arrested that slide. We're on the road back. Meanwhile in SA, Premier Mike Rann was ecstatic with winning a majority government.

We're going to continue to get

results for South Australia,

results for South Australia, because that's what we are elected to do,

and that's what we dedicate our

second term to. Thank you very much for being here tonight. Opposition leader Rob Kerin is expected to resign after expressing disappointment with the rsult.

We respect the decision of south

Australians. It's up to them who

they have govern them. They've made

it clear on this case that they

it clear on this case that they want be Labor for the next four years, be Labor for the next four years, so we respect that decision.

Mr Rann says he'll reward the independent and national MPs who enabled him to govern the last four years. Police on the Gold Coast are investigating a brawl overnight in which five people were either shot or stabbed. The fighting erupted during a kick-boxing bout at the Royal Pines Resort at Carrara. Three men were shot - one in the back and head, another in the foot. Another three were stabbed. Police are appealing for witnesses to come forward. Tens of thousands of Serbs have gathered in Belgrade to bid farewell to Slobodan Milosevic as he was buried in his home town about 50km away. Milosevic died a week ago while on trial in The Hague for war crimes. More than 80,000 people gathered around an outdoor stage where his flag-draped coffin lay. Milosevic was buried under a tree where it's claimed he first kissed his wife, Mirana Markovic, although neither she nor any of Milosevic's family was present. They're in self-imposed exile in Moscow,

fearing arrest if they return to Serbia. Meanwhile in Bosnia, families of Srebenica massacre victims watched the live television coverage of the funeral in anger. Riot police in Paris have clashed with demonstrators after a largely peacful protest after a largely peaceful protest earlier in the day against employment reforms. Police made several arrests after cars were overturned and set alight. The demonstrators were protesting against a government plan

to end youth unemployment by lifting job protection for those under 26. Unemployment is a major issue in France, where the national average is 9.6% and youth unemployment is 18%. And on the eve of the third anniversary of the start of the Iraq War, US President George W. Bush has used his weekly radio address to insist progress is being made. By defeating the terrorists in Iraq, we will bring greater security to our own country. And when victory is achieved, our troops will return home with the honour they have earned. Meanwhile in London, 15,000 anti-war protesters marked the third anniversary of the war with a march through central London to Trafalgar Square.

To sport, and firstly the Commonwealth Games. Australian swimmers have added five gold, three silver and four bronze

to their tally at the Games. Athletics makes an appearance today, and the streets of Melbourne city are beginning to fill in preparation for the marathon, which gets under way in about an hour. Full coverage of the Games coverage later this morning with 'Offsiders' at 10.30. To AFL now. Geelong has broken a 43-year premiership drought with a win in the final of the pre-season competition

in Adelaide last night. The Crows looked to have the match won with a 29-point lead early in the second quarter but the Cats clawed back, thanks to three final-term goals from Cameron Mooney. The Cats held to record an 8-point victory. The win marks Geelong's first premiership since 1963. In cricket, Australia has taken a 1-0 lead in the 3-Test series against South Africa after winning the opening match in Cape Town by seven wickets. Australia reached its target of 95 after dismissing South Africa for 197. Shane Warne got through Jacques Rudolph's defence to set up an easy run chase. Debutante fast-bowler Stuart Clarke was name 'Man of the Match', taking four wickets in the second innings, finishing with nine for the match. The second Test will start in Durban on Friday. In rugby league, North Queensland has made it two wins from two games after a 20-16 victory over Manly last night, while Brisbane defeated Cronulla 16-12 and Parramatta beat the Warriors 22-14. And in rugby union, the Brumbies have slipped to fourth position on the Super 14 table after a 26-15 loss to the Blues in Auckland. South Africa's Sharks had a 26-11 win over the Highlanders in Dunedin.

And France has claimed this year's Six Nations title after coming from behind to beat Wales 21-16. And there will be more sport -

Now for a look at the weather you can expect around the country today. Perth - fine and sunny. Darwin - 30 with showers. Brisbane - mostly fine. Sydney - showers and possibly a thunderstorm in store. Canberra - 28, cloud clearing. Melbourne - fine, 22. Hobart - mainly fine. Adelaide - sunny, 25. That's the news for now, Barrie.

Residents of north Queensland are

being urged to prepare for the

arrival of cyclone Larry. It's

located in the Coral Sea, about 750

kilometres either of Cairns and is

moving slowly west ward. I'll be back with more news at 11 o'clock. Mimi, thank you.

Coming up this morning, our program guest on Insiders is Labor's shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, Kevin Rudd. On Inside Business at 10 O'clock, Alan Kohler discusses the government's radical changes to media policy with Communications Minister Helen Coonan. On 'Offsiders' at 10.30, a feast of sport - the Commonwealth Games, the cricket Test from South Africa and all the football. At 11, 'Asia Pacific Focus' looks at a disturbing military build-up on Bougainville Island. A notorious con man has crowned himself king and is training a private army in the feared no-go zone. All that coming up. But first, to analyse the week in politics, I'm joined as always on a Sunday morning by Paul Kelly,

political commentator with the 'Australian'.

Good morning, Paul. Good morning,

Barrie. There is some concern in

Australia about the nature of

America 's attitude towards China,

Condoleezza Rice of course here

during the week. She says they're

not pursuing a policy of

containment. What do you think?

There is that concern but if you

look at the policy of the Bush

administration towards China, over

the past six years I think on

balance it's been a fairly

consistent and also constructive

one. It's clear that America is not

trying to contain China, that it

doesn't want any sort of

confrontation or showdown with

China. Its policy in fact has not

been overtly aggressive at all.

There are differences between the

two countries. There are

two countries. There are differences in relation to international trade,

intellectual property rights, human

rights, the Chinese defence budget

and there is no doubt at all that

the rise of China will be a

destabilising event for the Asia

Pacific. There will be a lot of

tension and competition between

America and China. But so far, I

think that has been managed fairly

well and of course it's in the

interests of neither country to see

that competition get out of control

at all. Condoleezza Rice has left

the country but before she left,

the country but before she left, tri lateral discussions involving the

United States, Australia and Japan.

What struck you about those talks?

These were the first trilateral

security discussions at ministerial

level. They involve, of course, the

two major economies in the world,

America and Japan, along with

Australia, and that involves 40% of

the global aid budget. I think

the global aid budget. I think there are a number of interesting issues

which came out of these talks. One

was a new focus on APEC, a

was a new focus on APEC, a consensus decision that APEC should be seen

decision that APEC should be seen as the primary regional organisation

the primary regional organisation in the Asia Pacific. And this of

the Asia Pacific. And this of course follows the establishment last year of

of the east Asian summit, which

excludes the United States. So we

might see a renewed American

interest in APEC and if so, I think

that will be quite important. There

was also a lot of focus on energy

security. This is very important

security. This is very important for the three countries. Japan, America

and Australia. And there is no

and Australia. And there is no doubt that this will be an important

coming debate in the region. Also,

coming debate in the region. Also, a strong focus on Indonesia. The

Australian government is

Australian government is encouraging the United States to renew its ties

with Indonesia. Given the fact that

we now have a democratic government

in Jakarta, and one of the

interesting features will be the

extent to which the United States

commits to a new level of economic

aid for Indonesia. Finally, I'd

highlight the point about Japan.

highlight the point about Japan. The really troubled relationship in our

region is not China/America, it's

China/Japan. This is where there

China/Japan. This is where there are great tensions, this is where there

is a high degree of

unpredictability. It's true to say

that the trilateral dialogue will

oversee and watch that Japan/China

relationship. Condoleezza Rice is

often spoken of as a potential

President of the United States.

President of the United States. What were your impressions about her

style during the visit? I think she

had a good visit. She seemed to

rival the Queen in terms of media

attention. She has a very powerful

personal story. Her story is about,

if you like, a personal example of

the American dream which highlights

all the good features of America.

It's interesting she went to Sydney

University and spoke to students

University and spoke to students and also went to the Commonwealth Games

in Melbourne. I thought both these

decisions were very clever. Thee is

undoubtedly a more effective

Secretary of State than was Colin

Powell. She has the support of the

President and that's all-important.

Having said that, of course, she's

got some enormous problems. She has

the Iraqi quagmire. And the fact

that the situation with Iran seems

to be drifting towards a possible

sort of military showdown there.

You said she rivalled the Queen. In

media coverage the Queen might have

come in No. 2 on this occasion, but

did John Howard say anything new

about the life span of the monarchy

while the Queen was here? He got

quite a good run in the British

media, Barrie. He gave this

interview to the British media in

which he said that he thought

Australia would remain a monarchy

during the life of the Queen. But

after that, frankly, he didn't know.

The British media interpreted this

as a concession, if you like, to

as a concession, if you like, to the republicans. I don't think it was

republicans. I don't think it was at all. If John Howard is saying that

the republican debate in this

country is effectively off the

agenda while the current Queen

continues to reign, then I think

frankly that's no concession at all

to the republicans. I mean, we

to the republicans. I mean, we don't know how long this will last for

know how long this will last for but it may well be another 15 years. So

I think what this really reflected

was the confidence of the Prime

Minister about the status quo,

Minister about the status quo, which was settled in 1999 when the

referendum was in fact defeated.

And just finally - Labor Party

politics and yet more victories for

Labor at the state level but in the

same week into Kim Beazley at the

federal level is labelled Mr 18%.

That's right, Mr 18%, not a good

position to be in, Barrie,

particularly with Labor in the

states looking so good. But I think

at this point in time, it's

important for the federal caucus to

keep its nerve. I think it should

have a cold shower when it comes to

discussions about the leadership. I

mean, we don't even know for

mean, we don't even know for certain yet whether John Howard or Peter

Costello will be Prime Minister

facing Labor at the next election.

While it's likely to be Howard, we

don't even know the answer to that

question. I think it would be most

unwise for Labor to start doing

anything on the leadership till the

government sorted out what it's

doing. The other point to make, of

course, is that it's unlikely Kim

Beazley will stay there. The Labor

polling results have been quite

polling results have been quite good over the course of the past 12

months. So I think the smart thing

for the caucus to do is to simply

watch the pattern of Labor's

recovery. I think there will be a

recovery to a certain extent. And

then take any further decision much

later on in the life of the current

Parliament. Paul, you have a plane

to catch. You're off to the United

States. We'll talk again if two

weeks. Thanks for your time this

morning. Thanks, Barrie. Now to our program guest. Foreign policy this week managed to break through the Commonwealth Games barrier with the visit to Australia of United States Secretary of State, Condoleeza Rice. And there were troubling new revelations for the government at the Cole Inquiry. For more on that now, I'm joined from Brisbane by Labor's shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, Kevin Rudd.

This week you called the Prime

Minister a liar, 16 times in one

news inference, based on a hunch.

You can't prove it? I don't know

about that. In the Cole Inquiry

about that. In the Cole Inquiry this week we had revealed a great swag

week we had revealed a great swag of intelligence reporting going to

intelligence reporting going to what the government had been told by our

intelligence community as far back

as 1998. The reason I labelled the

Prime Minister a liar was very

simple. On 12 February, he told the

Australian people down the barrel

Australian people down the barrel of a camera that his government had

provided all documents to the Cole

Inquiry. On 17 February, we now

Inquiry. On 17 February, we now know as a fact that Mr Cole had to

as a fact that Mr Cole had to resort to legal subpoenas to extract from

the Howard Government all this

intelligence information. But you

don't know whether the Prime

Minister knew those documents

existed on 12 February? It beggars

belief that four months after the

Cole Inquiry began, John how warned

his office would not have known

his office would not have known what documents had been provided to the

Cole Inquiry. This inquiry was

kicked off back in

kicked off back in November/December and here we are in February/March,

the Prime Minister going out,

telling the Australian people,

telling the Australian people, trust me, honest John, I've provided all

documentation from this government

to the Cole Inquiry, and five days

later, the commissioner has to

resort to a legal subpoena to

extract these quite damning

intelligence reports. That's the we

know why John Howard was reluctant

to provide them, because they are

to provide them, because they are so damning. None of them suggest our

spy agencies knew anything about

AWB's involvement in kickbacks?

The reports go back to 1998, refer

specifically to this Jordanian

company, Alia, and talk

company, Alia, and talk specifically about the sorts of kickbacks Saddam

Hussein was extracting from

suppliers under the Oil For Food

Program. Now, at the same time, by

early 2000, we have directly from

the United Nations in New York

the United Nations in New York other warnings to the Howard Government

which do name the AWB, and say

specifically that this is what the

AWB is up to. And John Howard

negligently, grossly negligently,

dismissed those concerns. You put

these two things together, frankly

the government's position is

indefensible and the Prime Minister

has lied. Now the AWB lawyers are

has lied. Now the AWB lawyers are in effect crying foul at the

commission. They're saying that

their people are geting a tough

time, government officials are

getting off lightly. Are they right

about that? Well, I Commissioner

Cole is operating as best he can

within his terms of reference, but

John Howard's other great lie goes

to the actual nature of the powers

that have been given to

that have been given to Commissioner Cole. John Howard wants to cause

Cole. John Howard wants to cause the Australian people to believe that

Commissioner Cole has powers to

reach findings about whether or not

Australian ministers have breached

law, Australian domestic law,

international law, Commissioner

international law, Commissioner Cole can do no such thing. It is simply

untrue. The commissioner at present

has powers only to make findings as

they relate to whether or not the

AWB and other Australian companies

have breached Australian law. So

when it comes to the actual focus

when it comes to the actual focus of the commission's activities,

Commissioner Cole and his team are

acting professionally within their

terms of reference, the problem is

John Howard. And if our Prime

Minister had nothing to hide, if he

want concerned about the truth,

want concerned about the truth, then he would expand those powers to

Commissioner Cole right now. But

Commissioner Cole right now. But the AWB lawyers are not talking about

the terms of reference at all, it's

the nature of the

the nature of the cross-examinations and they're saying that they're

tough on AWB witnesses, soft on the

government? Well, they're entitled

to their opinion in terms of how

to their opinion in terms of how the day-to-day combat is conducted

within the inquiry itself. What I

have said to you just now is based

on our own legal advice from legal

counsel, in terms of how, in fact,

the commission is constructed under

the powers they've been given. I

have to say, what John Howard has

done is set up a commission of

inquiry which puts all the weight

inquiry which puts all the weight in the direction of the AWB and none

the direction of the AWB and none of the weight in the direction of the Howard Government ministers. That's

why John Howard appears to be

relaxed and comfortable about this,

because he knows that is exactly

because he knows that is exactly the sort of powers that he has given to

the commissioner. If he has nothing

to hide, he would expand those

powers right now. Given the number

of times that you you've said that,

are you surprised then that Cole

himself hasn't asked for those

powers? I believe Commissioner Cole,

at the end of the day, is operating

within the constraints what he has

right now. The small extensions he

has sought so far from the

government relate to his existing

powers as they relate to the AWB.

But when it comes to such a massive

expansion, or change in his terms

expansion, or change in his terms of reference, as would cause him to be

able to make findings about whether

or not Australian Government

ministers had complied with the law,

administrative law and other

Australian and international laws,

that's a big step and he knows the

commissioner knows, that lies

commissioner knows, that lies within the decision-making powers of the

government. So that's why John

Howard knows that that is something

for him to decide and not the

commissioner, and that's why John

Howard seems to be laughing all the

way to the bank. He thinks that he

can get away with this and I think

the Australian people would expect

more of their Prime Minister,

leadership, I would think, means taking responsibility for the

actions of your government, it

doesn't mean simply hanging out

there, trying to engage in

there, trying to engage in political spin-doctoring to remove yourself from the line of responsibility.

Despite all of this, despite all

Despite all of this, despite all the AWB scandals, the industrial

relations campaign, surely there's

something that your side ought to

something that your side ought to be acutely embarrassed about and

acutely embarrassed about and that's that you're behind in the polls and

Kim Beazley is at 18%? Barrie,

Kim Beazley is at 18%? Barrie, we've been through some tough times.

been through some tough times. Let's call a spade a spade. But if you

look at the state election results

you have just referred to, I think

there is a key element in that

there is a key element in that which we need to bring out today. I spoke

to Kevin Foley last night, the

Deputy Prime Minister of south

Australia. We've won some fantastic

wins, both in South Australia and

Tasmania. But a key element in both

these campaigns was industrial

relations. And industrial relations,

the legislation which was brought

the legislation which was brought in by Howard, not long ago, beginning

to see the Americanisation of our

industrial relations system, and

that worked very badly for the

Liberals at both a state level in

Tasmania and in South Australia.

Both in South Australia and

Tasmania, the Labor Party focused

clearly on issues. Simon Crean and

Julia Gillard are insisting top

priority, internal party reform.

What's your message to them?

My response to that question,

Barrie, is that all of us have had

our say on this particular question.

And all of us are now back at work

doing our job. My job is to hold

doing our job. My job is to hold the government accountable for this

government accountable for this $300 million wheat for weapons scandal,

the biggest national security

scandal in the 10 year history of

this government. And when it comes

to my other colleagues, Stephen

Smith on industrial relations,

Smith on industrial relations, Wayne Swan on tax, we are back talking

about those matters which go to the

core of the living standards of

working Australian families. It's

not a question of them simply

not a question of them simply having their say. They're demanding action.

And they're saying that they won't

move off this issue until they take

action, until the Labor Party takes

action on factions. So they want

internal party reform to stay

internal party reform to stay frontd and centre? Any long standing

and centre? Any long standing policy is not to talk publicly about the

party's internal affairs. Our job

party's internal affairs. Our job is to hold the Howard Government

accountable and there is much for

accountable and there is much for it to be held accountable on, not

to be held accountable on, not least this wheat for weapons scandal.

People seem to be very down in the

mouth at the moment about Labor's

prospectses at the the moment. When

it comes to such radical decisions

as to Americanise our industrial

relations system, this will wash

through over time. Working families,

as Nick Minchin indicated the other

day, in his secret meeting with a

certain society, when he was saying

this was such a sensitive matter he

could only make a secret speech

about it, the government knows it

has real problem on this issue.

has real problem on this issue. John Howard makes like to believe he has

made Australians relaxed and

comfortable. Not many feel are

feeling relaxed because job

feeling relaxed because job security is at stake into the future. That's

what happened in South Australia

what happened in South Australia and Tasmania in part. Do you see a

Tasmania in part. Do you see a issue emerging on uranium? Australia is

now sending officials to the US and

India to have a look at the I

greemt. The Prime Minister when

asked about uranium sales to India,

you never say never. I'm

disappointed in our Prime Minister

on that que. Australia has a long

standing commitment to the

non-proliferation treaty, the international

International Atomic Energy Agency

and our bilateral nuclear

and our bilateral nuclear safeguards regime. This has been I thought a

matter of bipartisan consensus for

matter of bipartisan consensus for a long, long time. This country given

the size of its uranium reserves

can't afford to suddenly start

weakening its commitment to the

global non-proliferation regime. We

would be very concerned if John

Howard was about to step outside

that whole regime. Can I give you

one practical reason why? We are

one practical reason why? We are now faceing a very acute problem with

Iran. What the government and

Iran. What the government and Tehran is up to. What are we going to do

when that problem starts to get

when that problem starts to get more prominent in the international

political debate in the weeks and

months ahead? We're going to be

saying apparently under John Howard,

well, doesn't matter, I have just

weakened our commitment to the

global non-proliferation regime on

the one hand, but when it comes to

Iran we have to may ply it more

vigorously on the other. I think

this requires us all to stick to

these principles, because when it

comes to break-outs against this

non-proliferation regime, we have

non-proliferation regime, we have to make sure that we are upholding the

international standards and not

tearing them down. I will ask you

about Iran in just a moment. On

uranium sales now to China, because

the Chinese premier will visit next

month, are you expecting there that

there will be uranium sales to China, provide

China, provided there's some

monitoring going on to ensure they

use uranium for peaceful purposes?

The principle we've applied in

relation to India, we also apply to

China, that is, in the case of

China, officials are currently

negotiating a bilateral nuclear

safeguards regime. We have about 20

of these with various countries

around the world, and they've been

in place, I think, from memory,

in place, I think, from memory, from the late 7 #0s and early 80s. Our

pre-condition is that a nuclear safeguards bilateral agreement on

top of the international

arrangements must be in place

arrangements must be in place before we'd sell uranium to China. If

that's in place, we have no in

principle ox to sales being made

there. On Iran, if diplomacy fails

and it's not looking good to given

the Russian compromise didn't get

up, do you think in the end

Americans will pursue

Americans will pursue regime change

or will they limit their approach

or will they limit their approach to air viks? You're getting way ahead

of yourself there. The important

thing now is to use diplomacy and

take this step by step. This is a

very serious situation. I spoke to

the assistant Secretary of State,

Chris Hill, about this in Sydney

only this week. We've just had a referral to the United Nations

Security Council. The United

Security Council. The United Nations scourt council needs to adopt a

scourt council needs to adopt a very hard line resolution in relation to

Iran's non-compliance. I think

timetables should be attached to

that but we need to exhaust these

diplomatic and related options

diplomatic and related options first before anyone starts talking about

anything else. There is is a long

way to go to this and I would urge

caution all round, before people

start sounding as if they're too

trigger happy. Thanks for your time

this morning. Appreciate it.

Good to be with you, Barrie. Hi. I'm Ron Frank. I run the oldest camera shop in Perth.

I'm what you would call a conservative middle-aged Australian. I fully agree with our Prime Minister's comments and thoughts about the monarchy and about the Queen. The Queen opening the Commonwealth Games was something nice. Elizabeth has probably been the best of all the royals in the last 300 or 400 years. She's a lady with fine ethics and morals. Prince Charles is a man who has different ethics and morals to me. I got married 34 years ago and I'm still married to the same lady. I haven't had affairs, I don't want affairs and I don't want to be governed by a man that thinks having affairs is okay. No, Johnny Howard's right. If Prince Charles becomes the titular head of England, then we have a problem.

Australia has probably got the best political system in the world. We live under a monarchy which is benevolent and clean and decent and our youth and our children get good moral vibes. Any astute person will always look over the horizon and warn his followers that there is a potential danger and what I think Johnny Howard's saying to the people is:

you want moral and decent government, watch out for that bloke, don't let him get there.

(Laughs) I'm not sure the Prime

Minister actually said that.

Not in so many words. All he said

was it's certainly the monarchy is

safe while the Queen is there and

beyond that, who knows? Well, this

bloke seemed to be worried about

Prince Charles being an atd dut

Let's be 'avin yer!. He should be

very, very pleased that Henry VIII

isn't waiting in the wings to take

over!Cy In if the something

over!Cy In if the something happened to the Queen tomorrow and Johnny

Howard is the Prime Minister for

Howard is the Prime Minister for the next however many years, there is

not a shot on the republic. It was

not a shot on the republic. It was a fascinating contrast to see the

monarchist Prime Minister arguing

essentially that once Prince

essentially that once Prince Charles becomes King all bets are pretty

much off and then the republican

treasurer, Peter Costello, sitting

there arguing it's not actually the

person in the job, it's the set of constitutional arrangements that

Australian ... It's about the

Australian ... It's about the office of the monarchy, he said. I was

confused by that as well. In the

confused by that as well. In the end the republican argument was

the republican argument was scotched by what process it is. That

by what process it is. That argument will still be there whether it's

elected or how we replace it. I

think there is a point that beyond

the Queen - if Howard is around

the Queen - if Howard is around when the Queen goes and this argument

comes up, you watch him and others

regenerate that argument about

regenerate that argument about ... He will still be very active in

trying to scuttle any move. Until

the republic cans find the model

that appeals to the majority of

Australians ... The way we made a

fuss about it - we're celebrating

the Commonwealth Games but there is

no great - you don't sense any sort

of turn back to this have argument

again, do you? No and it's not a

passionate - he is not a passionate

monarchist at all, John Howard. He

said that to me. Oh! 25th

anniversary for the PM program on

the ABC, he was the only politician

asked and he was asked because he'd

been on that program far more times

in the first 25 years than any

in the first 25 years than any other politician. But his point is a

reasonable one. If you switch

reasonable one. If you switch across to the other model, if you elect

to the other model, if you elect the President, how do you not get an

imbalance against the elected Prime

Minister, particularly under the

existing constitution where a

President could veto legislation?

The Queen's constant companion

during this week, the Prime

during this week, the Prime Minister of course turned up a the the

Opening Ceremony, and got quite a

warm welcome. Let's have a listen

warm welcome. Let's have a listen to this again and compare it with the

reception for Steve Bracks, the

Victorian premier. The honourable

Steve Bracks. Premier of Victoria

Steve Bracks. Premier of Victoria . (Scattered applause) And the

honourable John Howard, Prime

Minister of plauz. (Vehement

applause) I was at the swimming

applause) I was at the swimming last nit oonds Howard gave out one of

nit oonds Howard gave out one of the medals, and he got - it's

incredible. He got the Leisel Jones

treatment. It's un-Australian,

almost! We did get an email from

somebody at Federation Square

watching the ceremony on the big

screen and they say "We booed him!

screen and they say "We booed him!" We'll move on now to the Wheat

We'll move on now to the Wheat Board and the story simply won't go away.

The big revelation during the week

was about the spy agencies and that

they knew, going back eight years,

that something was not quite right

and that Alia was up to no good.

and that Alia was up to no good. Has this really shifted the debate?

Well, I don't know that it's

Well, I don't know that it's shifted the terms of the debate but it's

another big piece in the puzzle

another big piece in the puzzle that adds up to either a deliberate

attempt to cover up knowledge that

was there by the government, or

which seems the more likely

explanation, just that people

weren't monitoring, they weren't

doing the job of checking that our

companies were acting within the

bounds of international law or

domestic law, and that argument

about negligence I think is still a

very compelling one. I think that's

the strongest thing. It's quite

amazing that the Department of

Foreign Affairs, a once great

department, has descended into a

national embarrassment. They

actually put to the committee a

statement by Bronte Mules, who had

sent back from New York allegations

about the kickbacks, which said

about the kickbacks, which said that she could not recall any

she could not recall any allegations while she worked in New York about

this. Now, Foreign Affairs has a

fantastic and very expensive data

retrieval system. All you have to

retrieval system. All you have to do is press a button and you'd be able

to find out what cables were sent

back. It's quite extraordinary

back. It's quite extraordinary it

has not done the work. John Howard

isn't lying about this, I don't

think. His departments have not

passed on the material to him.

Alexander Downer says they were raw

pieces of intelligence. Into it

doesn't mean it's not on database

doesn't mean it's not on databases.

This comes down to the report at

This comes down to the report at the end by Cole. There is so much

evidence that there were so many

hints. He has potential in one por

two lines in the final report to

two lines in the final report to put the government under pressure. He

says this is a disgrace, that the

government for all that it may not

have known directly, it should've

known. That suddenly changes the

debate. I don't think any ministers

will be sacked because they're

indispensable. No minister will be

sacked because of the culture about

... Precisely, but Howard said

specifically let the blame fall

where it lies. Just from - I

where it lies. Just from - I haven't been at the whole thing and the

government's argument is you have

government's argument is you have to be and that's a fair point. These

guys had found those drugs, the

weight lifters with the files,

they'd be going "We'll just put

they'd be going "We'll just put them in the bin and walk off." There

were hints all the way through and

this last revelation about this

intelligence is clear. Its now up

intelligence is clear. Its now up to Cole and Rudd says he can't, Howard

seems to say he can. Royal

commissioners do have a ren den see

over time to surprise people in

their last report. This argument

that because ostensibly all these

bits and pieces of information

weren't cobbled together, the

government didn't have a

responsibility to look for

responsibility to look for potential risks. If you think about a board

director in a corporate environment,

just because you don't look for

something doesn't mean you're not

liable as a director. The

liable as a director. The department had an obligation under Australian

law to vet those contracts to see

law to vet those contracts to see no kickbacks were being paid. You have

one bloke stand up from Foreign

Affairs in the Cole Inquiry and say

"I'm a world expert on corruption

"I'm a world expert on corruption in the Middle East. I didn't believe

the Middle East. I didn't believe at all the AWB were involved in this.

all the AWB were involved in this. I rang up the guy and he said it was

all bullshit. That satisfied me.

all bullshit. That satisfied me." This is when we were about to go to

war with this mob. They're front

war with this mob. They're front and centre of intelligence and

government policy. Alexander Downer

said why would you look at this

intelligence? It wasn't really a

major topic at the time. John

major topic at the time. John Howard said in his speech justifying the

war to the Australian people that

one of the things that Saddam

Hussein was doing was misusing

Hussein was doing was misusing money from the humanitarian food program

to buy ... We were the biggest

supplier to that program. Has it

washed through? Do you think people

- we have 18% Labor this week,

Beazley, Howard keeps going up, he

gets applauded. How can it when

Labor provided so much, that's sexy

to people in the media. On that

Kevin Rudd in case you missed it

called the Prime Minister a liar.

Did he do this to get attention or

does he believe something is going

on here? His argument is that

someone should have puts the dots

together but I don't think that

amounts to saying the Prime

amounts to saying the Prime Minister lied. The Prime Minister should've

known about these documents, he

said. When he said on February 12

there were no more documents

there were no more documents ... He is also saying that Howard said

all the documents were available. You can seat

You can see the PM. He will

You can see the PM. He will chastise Rudd. There is no proof he has lied.

The lesson for us in the media from

this is also very strong. Just

because Prime Ministers or

because Prime Ministers or ministers or shadow ministers say things,

doesn't mean it's right. John

doesn't mean it's right. John Howard said all the documents had been

provided. Turned out they hadn't.

provided. Turned out they hadn't. We have to keep testing things

constantly as things emerge.

Matt, you were at the swimming last

night. Was Simon Crean there and if

he was, was he giving advice to Ian

Thorpe about how to handle himself?

He wasn't there. Labor must just

shake their head. These state

election, I think Howard deep down,

after he has been cheered from the

swimming, he goes to bed thinking

fantastic, all the ducks in a row

again. South Australian premier,

Tasmanian and we've seen the last

couple of COAGs. They sit there and

they all pat each other on the back.

I just think Labor, those results

yesterday shot incumbency is all

powerful at the moment. I think the

worst example and the most

worst example and the most troubling example the factionalively is in in

New South Wales in the Liberal

Party. A highly strict moralist

Party. A highly strict moralist runs the dominant and runs ruthlessly

the dominant and runs ruthlessly the dominant faction, and it hurts the

Liberal Party opposition in New

South Wales. Also, it does show

South Wales. Also, it does show that you only need, in State Government,

you really need one or two blokes

that can read or write, or women,

that can read or write, or women,, and you can get in reasonably well.

I think there is a bar that you

need. You need four or five. And

need. You need four or five. And the government has a good record on the

economy. So I just - and I just

think it suits Howard. It's all

about incumbency now. The economy

about incumbency now. The economy is strong and there hasn't been a

change of government. Three

change of government. Three premiers change places, but no change

change places, but no change ... You said 19 elections? 19 in a row

and no change to a government since

1998. In Tasmania of course, for

decades they had a terrible

decades they had a terrible economic record and then under Jim Bacon add

the Labor Premier it started to

the Labor Premier it started to pick up enormously. It's stayed going

very strongly under Lennon. The

very strongly under Lennon. The core there was look this is a big change

for us. Let's not wreck it. The

Greens going back in Tassie and the

dems disappearing. What the fellow

from Adelaide said about Natasha

Stott Despoja is fascinatesing.

That's her dilemma, to stick with

the mob or maybe exploit her

popularity in South Australia.

On Simon Crean, you'd think the

lesson would be focus on the issues

and you will do a lot better. It

appears as if Simon Crean, Julia

Gillard and the rest are determined

to make changes and they'll keep

banging on about this publicly

banging on about this publicly until it's done? You the specific demands

don't seem to match up with the

diagnosis of the ills. You have

these modest solutions about

tinkering the way the front bench

tinkering the way the front bench is chosen which don't address the

problem with the factional warlords

in a totally effective way. Then

this huge question about the nature

of human beings and politics. We

have a group of people. Subgroups

within that will always form. How

within that will always form. How do you police that, monitor it, keep

you police that, monitor it, keep it in check You could do one vote,

in check You could do one vote, one value and not let union controlled

panels ... If they want Beazley to

be leader, you have to accept that

debate stops. He is at the end of

his tether. He has no appetite for

it. He has no energy for it. He

doesn't believe it, let's face it.

If there was a new leader, if Rudd

or someone came in, they could make

it a project. They're there for

maybe five or six years. As long as

Beazley is there, it's a dead loss

. Just an example. I got a call

. Just an example. I got a call this morning from a Labor Party insider

that you should know that Simon

Crean is also putting the weights

Crean is also putting the weights on Steve Bracks in the same way he is

with Kim Beazley. He is demanding

that one of Bracks's ministers, be

dealt with. Well, the renaissance

dealt with. Well, the renaissance of Simon is just bizarre, and no good

for Labor in a public sense. I'm

sure if he became a minister in a

government which will never happen,

we wouldn't have thought it

we wouldn't have thought it ... Why is someone ringing up to push

this along, someone who doesn't

approve of it, ringing up

approve of it, ringing up ... Because they have nothing else to

do! What about uranium sales? Will

that become an issue, given that

that become an issue, given that the Prime Minister is now saying he

won't rule it out in terms of

uranium sales to India? After his

joint press conference with the US

secretary of state, Condoleezza

Rice, what he said was quite odd.

Rice, what he said was quite odd. He said that India has had a very good

record since it explodeed a nuclear

device in 1974. He seems to have

overlooked that it explodesed one

overlooked that it explodesed one in April 1998, an explosion that his

government greeted with very strong

protest on the grounds we don't

protest on the grounds we don't want to reward people ... He said that

to reward people ... He said that in 1998? Very strong protest to the

Indians about it. That was entirely

in line with the policy which he

in line with the policy which he was still enunciating or Alexander

Downer was on the eve of his visit

to India. I think Kevin's last

to India. I think Kevin's last point is the key one about Iran. You can

have all these theoretical

arguments. Iran will be so

desperately serious over the next

few months and years. To be faffing

around with our uranium policy at

that stage will be overwhelming.

Howard has left the door open for a

discussion but you can't see it

happening. The danger in going down

that path is that for years we've

said you have to meet two

said you have to meet two conditions if you want to buy our uranium,

if you want to buy our uranium, sign up to the non-proliferation treaty

and do a bilateral arrangement with

us about how you use the uranium we

sell us. If you start basically

knocking either of those conditions

off, you open enormous risks.

Where are they putting the faith

now? On inspections and saying if

you're open and transparent, that's

more important than a signature on

more important than a signature on a document? Ostensibly but you only

have to look back at the Hussein

regime and the problem about the

fpss there that you can't have

fpss there that you can't have total faith with inspections. The nuclear

balance of power deterrents will

work, hopefully. It has worked

work, hopefully. It has worked since the Americans killed citizens of

Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Maybe that

will work. The option of a military

attack on Iran at the moment is

dreadsful because of the invasion

dreadsful because of the invasion of Iraq. That's left exposeed a very

large number of western troops to a

retaliation from the Shi'ite

majority in Iraq in sympathy with

the Iranan people. Condoleezza

Rice's visit during the week, do

Rice's visit during the week, do you think she made up for what was

clearly 12 months or more of

clearly 12 months or more of neglect both of Australia and the region?

I don't think there is neglect.

I don't think there is neglect. This is just overstating. The

relationship with ... Several

relationship with ... Several visits have been cancelled. People

understand viss don't matter. There

are telephones, there are emails.

Downer was cr