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This program is captioned live. I cannot comprehend that they're going to say, "You've got I cannot
comprehend that they're going to say, "You've got life. going to say, "You've got life." There is
not enough evidence. You can't put an innocent girl away can't put an innocent girl away for
something she didn't do. I can't - I can't deal with that. Tonight, Schapelle Corby. Her accusers
say she should live, but it's for life

Prosecutors recommend life sentence for Corby

Prosecutors recommend life sentence for Corby

Reporter: Tracy Bowden

MAXINE McKEW: Well, it wasn't the worst possible news for Schapelle Corby today in the Denpasar
District Court, but it was extremely grim. The 27-year-old beauty student has been spared death by
firing squad, but could face life imprisonment if she is found guilty of drug trafficking. The
prosecution team today dismissed the significance of last-minute witnesses called by the defence,
and stood by their case that more than 4 kilograms of marijuana was found in Schapelle Corby's
luggage when she arrived in Bali last October. While it is the three judges presiding over the
trial who will ultimately decide Schapelle Corby's fate, they are expected to be strongly
influenced by today's submissions from the prosecution. At the same time, the judges have stressed
they won't be affected by this week's arrest of nine Australians in relation to heroin trafficking
charges in Bali. Tracy Bowden reports.

JODIE POWER: Mentally and physically she is deteriorating. Now it's drawing to the end, I think she
is scared of what will happen. This is her reality now. This is it.

TRACY BOWDEN: And the reality is that today in the Denpasar District Court Schapelle Corby heard
the prosecutor utter the words she has been dreading since her arrest seven months ago.

COURT TRANSLATOR: She said life sentence for you, Schapelle. It will be minus whatever time you
have spent in jail. This is only a closing statement from the prosecutor. This is not the end.

TRACY BOWDEN: Schapelle Corby has escaped the death penalty, but the prosecution team requested a
life sentence and a fine of $13,400 if the 27-year-old is found guilty of smuggling more than 4
kilograms of marijuana into Bali.

severity of the crime to the judge, which is indicated in the sentence, and the judge will take
that into consideration when handing down the sentence. So, in this case, I think Schapelle Corby
is looking at many, many years in jail. It will probably be in the order of 10 to 15 years.

JODIE POWER: I'm just hoping that she can be extradited back to Australia and do her sentence here.
If she is not found innocent and she has to do time, I can't not think anything else. I have to
think there is still some hope.

TRACY BOWDEN: But for Jodie Power, the hope that has sustained her since her friend Schapelle Corby
was jailed in Bali is running thin.

JODIE POWER: I've had so many theories in the beginning, and now it's completely different.
Everything seems to be stacked against her.

TRACY BOWDEN: Jodie Power should know. A long-time friend of the Corby family, she travelled to
Bali on the same day as Schapelle Corby. They were both heading there to celebrate the 30th
birthday of Schapelle Corby's older sister, Mercedes. That celebration never happened. For the last
seven months, Jodie Power has spent most of her time in Bali, to be there for her friend. She has
witnessed the courtroom drama.

JODIE POWER: It's nothing like it is here in Australia. It's a complete circus. As soon as you hear
the sirens come, you know that Schapelle is turning up in the police van. The media is just totally
tightly knit surrounding her. And then she has to pretty much fight her way to get through to the
holding cell. And then when she is led into the courtroom, it's a joke. The courtroom is a joke.
Everyone is dropping...reporters are in there dropping their mobile phones, dropping their cameras,
mobile phones going off throughout the whole entire hearing. It's a joke.

DR DAMIEN KINGSBURY: The legal system in Indonesia is different to the Australian or indeed, most
Western systems in many respects. There is a presumption of guilt once you've been charged. As I
said, you have to essentially prove your innocence. There is a much more subjective approach to the
sentencing and, indeed, to the whole presentation of evidence. And the normal rules that apply,
say, in Australia about interference, things that are sub judice and so on simply doesn't apply in

TRACY BOWDEN: But today, as Schapelle Corby arrived at the court, the scene was more controlled,
with the Indonesian police keeping the media at bay. This time, Jodie Power wasn't there. She is
almost 5,000 kilometre away, back home in Byron Bay on the NSW northern coast.

JODIE POWER: I cannot comprehend that they're going to say, "You've got life." There is not enough
evidence. You can't put an innocent girl away for something she didn't do. I can't...I can't deal
with that.

DR DAMIEN KINGSBURY: They could not prove to the satisfaction of the court that the drugs were not
hers. There was some indication that they weren't, and indeed, if there was an issue of doubt,
there is certainly doubt, but the Indonesian legal system does not rely on being beyond reasonable

TRACY BOWDEN: Even back in Australia, there is no escaping the reality of her friend's plight. And
this week, more confronting headlines - the arrest of nine Australians in Bali for allegedly
trafficking heroin. The families of those arrested this week have now started to arrive in Bali,
stunned at what may lie ahead for their loved ones. But in Jodie Power's mind, this latest case of
alleged drug trafficking is vastly different from Schapelle Corby's.

JODIE POWER: These nine Australians, or how many, had heroin strapped to their bodies. Schapelle
checked her luggage in, in Brisbane, and never saw it again until Denpasar. There is absolutely no
comparison whatsoever. I think it's ridiculous.

TRACY BOWDEN: Ridiculous or not, could it affect the outcome of Schapelle Corby's case?

JODIE POWER: My fear is they're just...they're connecting Australians with drug trafficking. So I
don't know - just the way that the Indonesians or the prosecutors or whoever over there could
possibly think along those same lines, you know, "Oh, Australians, drug smugglers."

TRACY BOWDEN: But will the three judges presiding over the trial be influenced?

DR DAMIEN KINGSBURY: There might be a general sense that basically Australians are prone to drug
smuggling and that's certainly not going to help the case at all. But I think, more importantly,
what this means now, if they're asking for life for Schapelle Corby, it means that they really will
be asking for the maximum penalty for the alleged heroin smugglers.

TRACY BOWDEN: Indonesian specialist Dr Damien Kingsbury says the judges presiding over this trial
have a much less stringent approach than their Australian counterparts.

DR DAMIEN KINGSBURY: The level of legal training is pretty low by international standards. Some
judges are trained internationally, but these three, I understand, are not. That means that their
understanding of rules of evidence and so on and their capacity for evidence to be tampered with or
to be otherwise modified is pretty low. Again, they're not going to be looking at the niceties or
the fine points of the judicial process. They're going to be looking at essentially the prima facie
evidence and judging accordingly.

TRACY BOWDEN: After today's devastating news, Schapelle Corby is once again waiting. Next week the
defence team is expected to deliver its final submissions, with the judges due to announce their
verdict in mid- to late-May.

DR DAMIEN KINGSBURY: I think things are looking pretty grim at the moment. It's almost certain that
Schapelle Corby will be convicted and it's almost certain that she will receive a heavy sentence.
That means she will spend a lot of time in an Indonesian jail. There may be some presidential
intervention at a later stage, but she would have to serve several years in jail before that could
possibly occur.

JODIE POWER: I'm never going to give up on her. Yes, in the beginning I was crying a lot. Then I
started just getting angry, just like, "Come on, can't someone do more? There's got to be something
done. Like where is all this evidence gone? Like, where is everything? Why can't they find the
person that did it?" And now, I don't know what to feel now. I just...I want it to be over for

TRACY BOWDEN: For Jodie Power, it's still impossible to comprehend how a holiday with friends could
end up with one of them destined to spend the best years of her life behind bars. She wonders where
her friend Schapelle Corby will find the strength to keep going.

JODIE POWER: I don't think she will handle being there. I don't think she will cope, not any
longer. She''s too hard. I don't, she won't.

MAXINE McKEW: Tracy Bowden with that report.

New Pope 'soul of courtesy': Pell

New Pope 'soul of courtesy': Pell

Reporter: Maxine McKew

MAXINE McKEW: Now to the story that has captured headlines around the world this week - the
elevation to the papacy of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. Taking the name Benedict - St Benedict is the
patron saint of Europe - may well be a signal that the new pope sees some of the Church's most
pressing problems in his own backyard. But his history as the Pope's enforcer as head of the
Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith may not be much of a guide to the style or substance of
his papacy. Already he's confounded his critics by stressing the need to unify Christians and
emphasising reform of the Vatican and the need to give local bishops more autonomy. Australia's
only voting cardinal in this conclave, George Pell, knows the new Pope well, having worked with him
on doctrinal matters for a decade. And Cardinal Pell joins me now from Rome.

MAXINE MCKEW: Your Eminence, good evening and thank you for joining us. You, of course, have worked
with the man the world now knows has Benedict XVI. What would you say is the mark of the man?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL, CATHOLIC ARCHBISHOP OF SYDNEY: Maxine, he's an enormously capable man. I
think he is a genuinely spiritual and religious person. I don't believe at all that he wanted the
papacy. He is a splendid linguist, he is the soul of courtesy. When people generally see him in the
way we have, who have worked with him, they will understand this much more clearly.

MAXINE MCKEW: I've seen him described as John Paul's theological twin, but his opposite in terms of
style. Do you think that's right?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: His style is certainly different, but also I think he brings a somewhat
different theological approach. I think he will be much more interested in symbols, in the unity of
the Church, rather than the great moral questions that the previous Holy Father confronted. He is a
different person, very much an intellectual, whereas I suppose the last pope, while being very
intellectual, was a great populist.

MAXINE MCKEW: Well, is Benedict XVI going to be the sort of man who can also - we saw the
importance of this with John Paul - is he going to be the sort of man who will touch hearts as well
as move souls?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: I think so. I think very much. I think his sermon at the funeral of the Pope
was very significant there. People interrupted 12 or 13 times, so he won't be an arid, remote
teacher. I'm quite sure he will be a father to his people whom they will love, especially the young
people will love and will follow.

MAXINE MCKEW: Your Eminence, where does he stand on social justice issues because this is a bit of
an unknown quantity because he has not had much of a pastoral role in his career?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: That's interesting. Just last night I was talking with some commentators who
follow these things closely. I haven't read much that he has written on these questions, but they
were very optimistic. They say he has written well and written clearly. He is very much with the
poor, but he does not believe the Church should become a political organisation, and that Christ's
teaching shouldn't be seen primarily in political terms. So he was an opponent of liberation
theology, but he will be a defender of the poor.

MAXINE MCKEW: In terms of background, he also shares with his predecessor, of course, the brutal
earlier experience of World War II. He has seen Europe at its absolute worst. Has this experience
would you say left him with a very bleak view of human nature?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: There is a difference between Christian hope and human optimism, and he comes
from a different church, different from the church of the Holy Father where in Poland, the Catholic
community is still a mass church. The Church in Germany is somewhat different, even in Bavaria
where it's still very, very strong. So I think he has a slightly bleaker view of the situation in
Europe than his predecessor who was more optimistic, more of a romantic, but they're both centred
on Christ and their central message is the same, the same Catholic message, and history will show
just in what way this is played out differently in different countries.

MAXINE MCKEW: I couldn't help but note your comments in the last 24 hours from Rome when as you
looked on that magnificent fresco of Michelangelo's, the poor souls writhing in hell, and I suppose
it leads to this question: Would you say that perhaps you share with the new pope a vivid, a stark
sense of both damnation and salvation?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: I believe that's an essential part of Christian teaching. I hope that very,
very few persons are damned, but that's not my business, but the Last Judgment of Michelangelo
portrays very, very vividly the struggle between good and evil. That is a reality in our world. The
previous pope was very aware of it, and so is this pope. They've seen it first hand through the
second World War, through the struggle with communism, and also through the struggle between good
and evil that takes place in our own society. We're a bit inclined to brush that over, but it is a

MAXINE MCKEW: Would Pope Benedict take the view that non-believers are damned?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: No, certainly not, certainly not. Salvation is open to all good people. Our
God is a god of love and infinite mercy. The only person who might be damned are those who
resolutely refuse to turn to towards the light, towards love, who lock them up obstinately in hate.
My prayer and my hope is that very, very few will be damned.

MAXINE MCKEW: We've certainly seen the new pope say he wants to unify all Christians. I mean, does
he mean that quite literally and, if so, how?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: No, he said he will work towards unity. The second Vatican Council spelt out
that obligation. He is committed to continuing to implement the council. He has also said we need
to be a little bit clearer about where we are, what we stand for, so we're not just smothered in
goodwill in our dialogue with the other Christian groups, and also we've got to be able to work
with and cooperate with all people of goodwill, but especially other Christians who have very, very
different versions of the Church, for example, and the sacraments, like, for example, many of the
Anglicans in Sydney. We have different points of view on many things, but on the central message of
Christ, on the call to prayer, on repentance, belief in salvation, we share these and we have to
work with all different kinds of Christians.

MAXINE MCKEW: When Pope Benedict turns his attention to Europe, where in many cases people talk
about a crisis of Catholicism in Europe and that is both declining attendances at Mass on Sunday
and emptying seminaries, what message do you think he can take to Europe to perhaps arrest this

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: Well, our only message is the person of Christ and the teachings of Christ.
We have to express the deepness of the ancient truths of Christianity in a way that is new and
enlightening. The situation in Europe is not all bad. It's worst probably in eastern Germany where
in most places 70 per cent or 80 per cent of the people are not baptised. The years of Nazism and
communism has reaped terrible harvest there. In next-door Poland, in southern Germany, in Spain and
Malta, and in Italy the faith is reviving. The number of non-believers has gone down. It is a mixed
picture, but the challenge is very, very real.

MAXINE MCKEW: Your Eminence, I have one other question about more pressing events closer to home. I
know you have been kept abreast of this. You have asked for clemency for a young Australian facing
execution in Singapore. Will you do the same for the young Australians now potentially facing a
similar fate in Bali as a result of arrests last weekend?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: Yes, I don't know whether they're guilty or not. I'm certainly prepared to do
that. I think the punishment should be proportionate, but I think this terrible happening should be
a clear message to other silly people not to get caught up into these games, and to risk
everything. But I'm certainly prepared to ask for clemency for a lesser punishment for them.

MAXINE MCKEW: And if need be, would you take that case to the Holy Father?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: Yes, I think I would be prepared to do that, but I would need to have a good
look at everything, but I think I would be prepared to do that.

MAXINE MCKEW: Your Eminence, for your presence tonight, thank you very much indeed.

Tap Dogs turns dance form on its toes

Tap Dogs turns dance form on its toes

Reporter: Rebecca Baillie

MAXINE McKEW: Now to something in a very different vein. Ten years ago, an unknown steelworker from
Newcastle took the art form made famous by tap dancers Gene Kelly, Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire
and turned it on its toes. Since then Dein Perry and his show, Tap Dogs, have enjoyed huge
international success with their own fast and furious brand of dance. Now the show is back touring
Australia, and Dein Perry is passing on his prowess to the next generation. Rebecca Baillie

DEIN PERRY: I grew up in Newcastle, I left school when I was 16. I got a job in the steelworks. We
didn't finish work until the sun come up, we didn't start till about 11 o'clock at night, and there
was plenty of time to dream - well, not dream - I had to think about what else could I do with my
life. The only other thing I knew was dancing.

REBECCA BAILLIE: 10 years ago, fitter and tuner-turned-tap dancer Dein Perry burst out of the
steelworks and onto the stage with his dynamic show, Tap Dogs. Now, after years of constant touring
both here and abroad, the Tap Dogs are back where it all began, starting a national tour in
hometown Newcastle.

DEIN PERRY: Everyone can now have a little taste of what it has achieved and what we've achieved.

REBECCA BAILLIE: Billed as Australia's biggest theatrical export, 'Tap Dogs' has been performed in
32 countries, grossing an estimated $160 million. It owes its success to Dein Perry's formula of
putting testosterone into tap.

SHELDON PERRY: To me, we were just a bunch of knock-about guys. It's just an honesty I think we've
got. It's just a bunch of guys going out there doing tap-dancing routines trying to entertain with
our feet. There is nothing overly show business about it. There is definitely no make-up worn or
anything like that, and it would only sweat off in the first five minutes, anyway, but it's a
genuine, strong, working-class sort of ethic behind the guys' performances.

REBECCA BAILLIE: While Dein Perry and his younger brother Sheldon have both starred individually in
'Tap Dogs', this is the first time the brothers will perform together in the show.

DEIN PERRY: We move very similar. We certainly know each other's feet.

SHELDON PERRY: There is a definite musical thing that I think we have together. I noticed it when
we were younger and we danced together that we looked good together.

REBECCA BAILLIE: No surprise the Perry brothers are back dancing together. Their mother says they
were born to dance.

YVONNE PERRY: I started Dein at four. I just thought I would love him to learn dancing. I always
was interested in it myself. I thought if he looks the right little build and everything, I'll have
a little go with him.

REBECCA BAILLIE: How unusual is it, do you think, that two boys, sons of a Newcastle truck driver,
have ended up on the world stage tap dancing?

YVONNE PERRY: I honestly still sometimes can't believe it. It is - and people ask me all the time,
and it's amazing, yes.

REBECCA BAILLIE: Just like his mother nurtured his dancing talent, Dein Perry is keen to pass on
the skills and discipline of dancing to his own son, Reid. When Dein Perry started searching for
dance classes for his son, he found there were few opportunities for boys to learn. So he set up
Tap Puppies to teach some new dogs some old tricks.

'SPEEDO' GABRIELSSON: Dein Perry, he wanted to teach Reid tap dancing and I thought, "OK, I'll be

REBECCA BAILLIE: And did you always want to do tap like your dad?

REID PERRY: Oh, yep.

REBECCA BAILLIE: Why did you want to do that?

REID PERRY: Because I wanted to be famous like him.

DEIN PERRY: It started with half a dozen kids and little boys and now we've got about 20 and
they're all going really good. It's hard work to teach them - incredibly hard - it's hard for me.
I'm always on hands and knees trying to get their legs going, but they love it.

REBECCA BAILLIE: The Tap Puppies are the lucky ones. Not only do they learn tap from the master,
but they're also getting a sneak preview of the show.

'SPEEDO' GABRIELSSON: Yes, it was really good.

REBECCA BAILLIE: Why did you like it?

'SPEEDO' GABRIELSSON: Because, um, they did lots of cool tricks.

DEIN PERRY: Come on, Kieran! There has to be a place for young guys to learn tap dancing, you know,
and if we can keep spreading it - well, I'm certainly going to have a lot of tap dancers for the
future to pick from, aren't I?

REBECCA BAILLIE: While Dein Perry is confident tap's future is healthy, he has had to lose nearly
20kg to get into shape for this 'Tap Dogs' tour. It will be his first time on stage in six years
and he just hopes his body can hold up.

DEIN PERRY: I feel a little awkward and a little stiff at the moment, but I'm sure, night after
night, it will come charging back - I hope!

REBECCA BAILLIE: Are you nervous?

DEIN PERRY: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

MAXINE McKEW: Rebecca Baillie with that report.

Clarke and Dawe and ironclad guarantees

Clarke and Dawe and ironclad guarantees


MAXINE McKEW: And finally, John Clarke and Brian Dawe and a little problem over ironclad

(John Clarke plays Mr Abbott and Bryan Dawe plays the interviewer)

INTERVIEWER: Mr Abbott, thanks for your time.

MR ABBOTT: It's a great pleasure, Bryan. Thank you very much for inviting me on the program.

INTERVIEWER: Mr Abbott, you've said you were disappointed that the Government's promise in relation
to the Medicare safety net has been broken.

MR ABBOTT: Yes, I was, indeed.

INTERVIEWER: Why is that?

MR ABBOTT: Well, I'm the minister, Bryan. It could almost look as if I'm responsible.

INTERVIEWER: For health?


INTERVIEWER: Yes, it's a mistake the community could easily make, isn't it?

MR ABBOTT: That's very much the danger.

INTERVIEWER: I can see that. That's obvious.

MR ABBOTT: That's why I'm so upset, Bryan.

INTERVIEWER: Does it upset you that another one of the Government's promises has been broken?

MR ABBOTT: Oh, I beg your pardon. You are serious? Sorry, you can cut that out. Ask me the question

INTERVIEWER: Well, does it upset you that another one of the government's promises has been broken?

MR ABBOTT: Yes, Bryan, it does. One must bear in mind, of course, that sometimes when you make a
promise, you're not in a position to know that the basis on which you're making the promise is
false, and you're not going to be able to deliver on the promise.

INTERVIEWER: So why make the promise in the first place?

MR ABBOTT: Yes, that's what is so upsetting.

INTERVIEWER: If your figures were wrong the first time, what other figures are wrong?

MR ABBOTT: Well, that's all coming out now. Frankly, it's a difficult and rather embarrassing time
to be a member of government.

INTERVIEWER: And you thought of resigning?

MR ABBOTT: I did, indeed, yes.


MR ABBOTT: Yes, it crossed my mind, Bryan.


MR ABBOTT: Well, for reasons as outlined. I'm the minister. I went to the electorate. I made
certain statements. The statements were not true.

INTERVIEWER: You got it wrong.

MR ABBOTT: Yes, I got it wrong, Bryan. I got it wrong. The bottom line, Bryan, is that a lot of
Australians will have to pay a hell of a lot more to go to the doctor. Simple as that.

INTERVIEWER: So you considered resigning from the government?

MR ABBOTT: I certainly considered resigning, yes.


MR ABBOTT: Yes. As I say, it crossed my mind.

INTERVIEWER: When was this?

MR ABBOTT: Recently. Over this matter. Within living memory. What's that you've got?

INTERVIEWER: Well, this is a print-out of your electro-neurological impulses over the last few

MR ABBOTT: Good Lord! They can do that, can they?

INTERVIEWER: Yes. When was it that you considered resigning?

MR ABBOTT: It will be in there somewhere.

INTERVIEWER: Is this it? There is a little bump here.

MR ABBOTT: No, that will be the interview I gave to Tony Jones on Lateline. That's in the pm. See,
that's very late at night.

INTERVIEWER: Oh, yes, I see that. What's this here then?

MR ABBOTT: That's a bit of a press release I did about family I thought I had at the time.

INTERVIEWER: Your son and not having a son?

MR ABBOTT: Yes, and that next bump will be - that's the press release kind of went off in my hand.
But when I resigned will be there somewhere - that impulse will show.

INTERVIEWER: Well, where's the moment you considered resigning?

MR ABBOTT: Well, I don't know where it is. What's that? Is that it?

INTERVIEWER: No, that's a fly speck.

MR ABBOTT: What about that one?

INTERVIEWER: No, that's a dot above the "i".

MR ABBOTT: It will be there somewhere, Bryan, because I certainly considered resigning.

INTERVIEWER: Because you were so upset?

MR ABBOTT: So upset was I, Bryan, by the ethical position in which I had been placed by the
government's actions.

INTERVIEWER: Jane, can we get a microscope please?

MR ABBOTT: Yes, and a pen - quickly.

INTERVIEWER: It will be here somewhere.

MR ABBOTT: No, wait a moment. We'll stick it in.