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Economics Legislation Committee
29/05/2018
Estimates
TREASURY PORTFOLIO

TREASURY PORTFOLIO

In attendance

Senator the Hon. Mathias Cormann, Minister for Finance, Special Minister of State

Senator the Hon. James McGrath, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister

Department of Treasury

Mr John Fraser, Secretary

Macroeconomic Group

Mr Nigel Ray, Deputy Secretary

Dr Jim Hagan, Division Head, Macroeconomic Modelling and Policy Division

Dr Michael Kouparitsas, Principal Adviser, Macroeconomic Modelling and Policy Division

Dr John Swieringa, Principal Adviser, Macroeconomic Modelling and Policy Division

Ms Megan Edwards, Principal Adviser, Macroeconomic Modelling and Policy Division

Ms Lisa Elliston, Division Head, International Policy and Engagement Division

Mr Chris Legg, Chief Adviser, International Policy and Engagement Division

Dr Angelia Grant, Division Head, Macroeconomic Conditions Division

Ms Laura Berger-Thomson, Principal Adviser, Macroeconomic Conditions Division

Corporate Services and Business Strategy Group

Mr Matthew Flavel, Deputy Secretary

Mr Robert Twomey, Chief Financial Officer, Chief Financial Officer Division

Ms Shannon Kenna, Division Head, Communications and Parliamentary Division

Miss Phoebe Burgess, Head of HR, Risk and Governance, People and Organisational Strategy Division

Mr Michael Webb, Chief Information Officer, Information Services Division

Mr Andre Remmers, Security Adviser, Information Services Division

Fiscal Group

Mr Michael Brennan, Deputy Secretary

Mr Jonathan Rollings, Division Head, Budget Policy Division

Mr Adam McKissack, Principal Adviser, Budget Policy Division

Mr Kieran Davies, Principal Adviser, Budget Policy Division

Ms Vicki Wilkinson, Division Head, Social Policy Division

Ms Joanne Evans, Principal Adviser, Social Policy Division

Mr Nathan Dal Bon, Principal Adviser, Social Policy Division

Ms Jessica Carew, Principal Adviser, Social Policy Division

Mr Robert Jeremenko, Division Head, Retirement Income Policy Division

Mr Darren Kennedy, Principal Adviser, Retirement Income Policy Division

Mr Ian Beckett, Principal Adviser, Retirement Income Policy Division

Ms Michelle Dowdell, Principal Adviser, Retirement Income Policy Division

Ms Kate Phipps, Division Head, Commonwealth-State Policy Division

Markets Group

Mr John Lonsdale, Deputy Secretary

Ms Diane Brown, Division Head, Financial System Division

Mr James Kelly, Chief Adviser, Financial System Division

Mr Warren Tease, Chief Adviser, Financial System Division

Mr Tony McDonald, Principal Adviser, Financial System Division

Ms Julie Greenall-Ota, Principal Adviser, Financial System Division

Ms Elizabeth Williamson, Division Head, Consumer and Corporations Policy Division

Ms Emily Martin, Principal Adviser, Consumer and Corporations Policy Division

Ms Kate O'Rourke, Principal Adviser, Consumer and Corporations Policy Division

Ms Lucy Vincent, Principal Adviser, Consumer and Corporations Policy Division

Mr Roger Brake, Division Head, Foreign Investment Division

Ms Victoria Anderson, Chief Adviser, Foreign Investment Division

Ms Jessica Robinson, Principal Adviser, Foreign Investment Division

Mr Shaun Anthony, Principal Adviser, Foreign Investment Division

Mr Simon Writer, Acting Division Head, Law Design Office

Structural Reform Group

Ms Meghan Quinn, Deputy Secretary

Mr Hamish McDonald, Chief Adviser

Mr Dan Andrews, Chief Adviser

Mr Tom Dickson, Principal Adviser

Ms Louise Butler, Acting Principle Adviser

Mr Simon Milnes, Manager

Revenue Group

Ms Maryanne Mrakovcic, Deputy Secretary

Mr Graeme Davis, Acting Division Head, Tax Framework Division

Mr Paul McCullough, Division Head, Corporate and International Tax Division

Mr Brendan McKenna, Principal Adviser, Corporate and International Tax Division

Mr Geoff Francis, Principal Adviser, Corporate and International Tax Division

Ms Marisa Purvis-Smith, Division Head, Individuals and Indirect Tax Division

Mr Patrick Boneham, Principal Adviser, Individuals and Indirect Tax Division

Mr Murray Crowe, Principal Adviser, Individuals and Indirect Tax Division

Mr Simon Writer, Acting Division Head, Law Design Office

Mr Matthew Brine, Division Head, Tax Analysis Division

Royal Australian Mint

Mr Ross MacDiarmid, Chief Executive Officer

Australian Charities and Not-For-Profits Commission

Dr Gary Johns, Commissioner

Australian Taxation Office

Mr Chris Jordan, Commissioner of Taxation

Mr Neil Olesen, Second Commissioner, Client Engagement Group

Mr Andrew Mills, Second Commissioner, Law Design and Practice Group

Mr Ramez Katf, Chief Information Officer, Enterprise Solutions and Technology

Ms Jacqui Curtis, Chief Operating Officer, Corporate and Enabling Services Group

Ms Melinda Smith, Chief Service Delivery Officer, Service Delivery Group

Ms Frances Cawthra, Chief Finance Officer

Mr Jeremy Hirschhorn, Deputy Commissioner, Public Groups

Ms Deborah Jenkins, Deputy Commissioner, Small Business

Mr James O'Halloran, Deputy Commissioner, Superannuation

Mr Jonathon Todd, ATO General Counsel, ATO Corporate

Ms Michelle Crosby, Deputy Registrar, Business Reporting and Registration

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission

Mr Rod Sims, Chair

Ms Rayne de Gruchy, Chief Operating Officer

Ms Jeanne Pratt, Executive General Manager, Merger and Authorisation Review Division

Mr Marcus Bezzi, Executive General Manager, Specialised Enforcement and Advocacy Division

Mr Scott Gregson, Executive General Manager, Enforcement Division

Mr Tim Grimwade, Executive General Manager, Consumer, Small Business and Product Safety Division

Mr Michael Cosgrave, Executive General Manager, Infrastructure Regulation Division

Mr Richard Fleming, General Manager, Enforcement NSW and ACT

Mr Peter Maybury, Chief Finance Officer

Australian Energy Regulator

Ms Michelle Groves, Chief Executive Officer

Mr Peter Adams, General Manager, Wholesale

Ms Sarah Proudfoot, General Manager, Retail

Mr Warwick Anderson, General Manager, Networks

Mr Tim Mahony, General Manager, Strategic Communications and External Affairs

Australian Prudential Regulation Authority

Mr Wayne Byres, Chairman

Mrs Helen Rowell, Deputy Chairman

Mr Geoff Summerhayes, APRA Member

Mr Warren Scott, General Counsel

Mr Gideon Holland, General Manager, Diversified Institutions Division

Ms Heidi Richards, General Manager Policy Development

Mr Stephen Glenfield , General Manager, Specialised Institutions Division

Australian Securities and Investments Commission

Mr James Shipton, Chair

Mr Peter Kell, Deputy Chair

Ms Cathie Armour, Commissioner

Mr John Price, Commissioner

Mr Greg Kirk, Senior Executive Leader, Strategy

Mr David McGuinness, Senior Executive, Financial Services Enforcement

Mr Warren Day, Senior Executive Leader, Assessment and Intelligence

Ms Jane Eccleston, Senior Executive Leader, Investment Managers and Superannuation

Ms Louise Macaulay, Senior Executive Leader, Financial Advisers

Ms Sharon Concisom, Senior Executive Leader, Market Enforcement

Mr Chris Savundra, Chief Legal Officer

Productivity Commission

Mr Peter Harris, Chair

Ms Karen Chester, Deputy Chair

Ms Nina Davidson, Head of Office

Commonwealth Grants Commission

Mr Michael Willcock, Secretary

Mr Anthony Nichols, Assistant Secretary

Australian Bureau of Statistics

Mr David W Kalisch, Australian Statistician

Mr Randall Brugeaud, Deputy Australian Statistician, Corporate Services and Transformation Group

Ms Luise McCulloch, Deputy Australian Statistician, Statistical Services Group

Mr Jonathan Palmer, Deputy Australian Statistician

Ms Teresa Dickinson, Deputy Australian Statistician, Census and Data Services Group

Mr Bruce Hockman, Chief Economist

Ms Jacqui Jones, General Manager, Macroeconomic Statistics Division

Dr Paul Jelfs, General Manager, Population and Social Statistics Division

Ms Gemma Van Halderen, General Manager, Statistical Integration Data Division

Mr Lane Masterton, Acting General Manager, Statistical Business Transformation Division

Dr Siu-Ming Tam, Chief Methodologist, General Manager, Methodology Division

Ms Samantha Palmer, General Manager, People, Capability and Communication Division

Mr Chris Libreri, General Manager, Census and Statistical Services Division

Mr Steve Hamilton, Chief Information Officer, General Manager, Technology and Security Division

Ms Lily Viertmann, Chief Finance Officer and Chief Risk Officer, General Manager, Finance, Risk and Planning Division

Inspector-General of Taxation

Mr Ali Noroozi, Inspector-General of Taxation

Mr Andrew McLoughlin, Deputy Inspector-General of Taxation

Committee met at 09:01

CHAIR ( Senator Hume ): I declare open this meeting of the Senate Economics Legislation Committee. The Senate has referred to the committee the particulars of proposed expenditure for 2018-19 and related documents for the Treasury portfolio, for Industry, Innovation and Science, and for parts of the Jobs and Innovation portfolio. The committee may also examine the annual reports of the departments and agencies appearing before it. The committee has set Tuesday, 12 June 2018 as the date by which senators are to submit written questions on notice, and has fixed Friday, 27 July 2018 as the date for return of answers to questions taken on notice. Under standing order 26, the committee must take all evidence in public session. This includes answers to questions on notice.

Officers and senators are familiar with the rules of the Senate governing estimates hearings. If you need assistance, the secretariat has a copy of the rules. In particular, I draw the attention of witnesses to an order of the Senate of 13 May 2009, specifying the process by which a claim of public interest immunity should be raised, and which I now incorporate in Hansard.

The extract read as follows—

Public interest immunity claims

That the Senate—

(a) notes that ministers and officers have continued to refuse to provide information to Senate committees without properly raising claims of public interest immunity as required by past resolutions of the Senate;

(b) reaffirms the principles of past resolutions of the Senate by this order, to provide ministers and officers with guidance as to the proper process for raising public interest immunity claims and to consolidate those past resolutions of the Senate;

(c) orders that the following operate as an order of continuing effect:

(1) If:

(a) a Senate committee, or a senator in the course of proceedings of a committee, requests information or a document from a Commonwealth department or agency; and

(b) an officer of the department or agency to whom the request is directed believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the officer shall state to the committee the ground on which the officer believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, and specify the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document.

(2) If, after receiving the officer’s statement under paragraph (1), the committee or the senator requests the officer to refer the question of the disclosure of the information or document to a responsible minister, the officer shall refer that question to the minister.

(3) If a minister, on a reference by an officer under paragraph (2), concludes that it would not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the minister shall provide to the committee a statement of the ground for that conclusion, specifying the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document.

(4) A minister, in a statement under paragraph (3), shall indicate whether the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee could result only from the publication of the information or document by the committee, or could result, equally or in part, from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee as in camera evidence.

(5) If, after considering a statement by a minister provided under paragraph (3), the committee concludes that the statement does not sufficiently justify the withholding of the information or document from the committee, the committee shall report the matter to the Senate.

(6) A decision by a committee not to report a matter to the Senate under paragraph (5) does not prevent a senator from raising the matter in the Senate in accordance with other procedures of the Senate.

(7) A statement that information or a document is not published, or is confidential, or consists of advice to, or internal deliberations of, government, in the absence of specification of the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document, is not a statement that meets the requirements of paragraph (1) or (4).

(8) If a minister concludes that a statement under paragraph (3) should more appropriately be made by the head of an agency, by reason of the independence of that agency from ministerial direction or control, the minister shall inform the committee of that conclusion and the reason for that conclusion, and shall refer the matter to the head of the agency, who shall then be required to provide a statement in accordance with paragraph (3).

(d) requires the Procedure Committee to review the operation of this order and report to the Senate by 20 August 2009.

(13 May 2009 J.1941)

(Extract, Senate Standing Orders)

CHAIR: Witnesses are specifically reminded that a statement that information or a document is confidential or consists of advice to government is not a statement that meets the requirements of the 2009 order. Instead, witnesses are required to provide some specific indication of the harm to public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or the document. An officer called upon for the first time to answer a question should state their full name and position for the Hansard record, and witnesses should speak clearly into the microphone. I remind senators and witnesses that microphones remain live unless I instruct otherwise, for example, at suspension or adjournment.

I would ask photographers and cameramen to follow the established media guidelines and the instructions of the committee secretariat. As set out in the guidelines, senators' and witnesses' laptops, mobile phones, other devices and personal papers are not to be filmed or photographed. I remind members of the public and everyone in the gallery that they are not permitted to speak or interfere with the proceedings or with witnesses at any point during the hearing. Security is present and they will be asked to remove anyone who does not follow these instructions.

The committee's proceedings today will examine the Treasury portfolio, beginning with the Department of Treasury macroeconomic and corporate groups. The hearing will then follow the order as set out in the circulated program. The committee's schedule break times are listed in the program or as required.