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Tuesday, 10 February 2015
Page: 250

Senator KIM CARR (Victoria) (13:00): I thought the minister might be responding, but, clearly—

Senator Cormann: We could go round and round in circles all day.

Senator KIM CARR: We will not be going around in circles. I think we are entitled to have specific answers to specific questions. You have indicated that these measures have now been modelled. What is the nature of that modelling? You indicated that it is 25 firms, and then you tell us that maybe it is 25 consolidated groups.

Senator Cormann: I didn't say 'firms'; I've never said 'firms'.

Senator KIM CARR: You have said 'firms'. I asked specifically, 'How many firms?' You told me 25. I then went on to say, 'Do you mean consolidated groups?' You are confusing the two. It is quite clearly not 25 firms. How many firms is it, then?

The CHAIRMAN: The question is—Senator Carr?

Senator KIM CARR: I have asked a question. Are we not answering it at all? Is this the minister's new technique—that he just refuses to answer? How many firms are affected by this measure, and what is the nature of the modelling that you claim has now been undertaken?