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Wednesday, 24 August 1983
Page: 233


Mr HODGMAN(10.38) —I move:

(1) Clause 11, page 4, after proposed sub-section (1) insert the following sub- section:

'' ' (1A) Where a person who is a non-citizen has either before or after the commencement of this sub-section been convicted of trafficking in dangerous drugs, or has been convicted in Australia of an offence and sentenced to imprisonment for a period of not less than five years, the Minister may subject to this section, order the deportation of the person.'.

The Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs (Mr West) in his remarks a few moments ago emphasised the point that section 14 deals with security whereas section 12 deals with criminal matters. To that extent he is correct, but what he has not told this House is that the power to deport on the basis of criminal conviction under his legislation runs out at the end of 10 years unless the person is charged with offences involving sedition, treachery or treason. As the Minister knows full well, there has not been a conviction and deportation of a person in relation to sedition, treachery or treason in this country this century and, in the view of the honourable member for North Sydney (Mr Spender), there has not been a conviction for probably 200 years. One would have to go back to Governor Bligh.

I am amazed and disappointed at the response of Government members who have participated in this debate. I would have thought that some of them would have recognised that the law, as it will become if our amendment is not agreed to, is so narrow that there will be no more deportations of people once they have been in this country for 10 years. They can be murderers or gangsters. The honourable member for Grayndler (Mr Leo McLeay) spoke with some feeling. The honourable member, and other members from New South Wales, must know that organised crime in that State has been a matter of debate in this Parliament and the New South Wales Parliament. To tell the people of Australia that people can murder, be involved in drug trafficking and organised crime without being deported is, as I said earlier today, to give those people carte blanche. Al Capone, in 1983 in Australia, could not be deported.

I refer to one other serious matter. I did not want to raise it. But, in view of the comments made by two honourable members, I will do so. Do honourable members realise that if the Government's legislation is passed without my amendment, they will not be able to deport somebody from Australia if he or she is convicted of spying or harbouring a spy? Under section 77 of the Crimes Act, a person is liable to a sentence of seven years imprisonment for espionage and under section 81 of the Crimes Act a person is liable to a sentence of seven years imprisonment. If that is put into the context of the Ivanov case, a person harbouring a Soviet spy will be subject to prosecution and to seven years imprisonment. But the Hawke socialist Government says: 'No, we won't deport that person from this country'. I ask Government members to name me one civilised country in the world that does not reserve the right to expel and deport a spy. The Minister is saying that a person who has lived in Australia for 10 years can be a spy or can harbour a spy. He can harbour Mr Valeriy Ivanov. And I do not take that matter any further.

The most serious aspect in this respect is that this socialist Government has a national security record which is so deplorable that it is already condemned by the people of Australia, 40 per cent of whom believe that the Prime Minister (Mr Hawke) has not handled the Combe-Ivanov affair very well. You will now place on the statute books that you cannot deport a spy. You cannot deport a Soviet spy under the Hawke Government.


Mr Leo McLeay —A point of order, Mr Chairman.


Mr HODGMAN —And you, member for Nugan Hand, know that better than most.


Mr Leo McLeay —Mr Chairman, I take a point of order. The honourable member is not speaking to the Bill. There are ample provisions in the Bill to deport spies when it is deemed necessary to do so.


The CHAIRMAN —Order! There is no point of order. The honourable member is very much directing himself to the provisions of the Bill and, indeed, to the amendment that he has moved. I call the honourable member for Denison.


Mr HODGMAN —Thank you, Mr Chairman. I note the presence in the chamber of the Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Lionel Bowen), who is a lawyer of great standing. I ask the Deputy Prime Minister to correct me if I say anything wrong. I have previously referred to this matter, but because of the interjection by the honourable member for Grayndler I will have to do so again. I will tell you for what crimes people can be deported after they have lived here for 10 years. If I put one foot out of line, the Deputy Prime Minister can correct me. If you look, Minister, at your Bill-I say this through you, Mr Johnson-you can only deport people who have lived here for 10 years for convictions for certain offences. I referred to them earlier this evening, but I will put them on the record again. Section 24 of the Crimes Act refers to treason; section 24AA refers to treachery ; section 24AB-and this is not funny-refers to sabotage; section 24C deals with offences which cover the ones to which I have just referred; section 24D is interesting because it refers to seditious words.


Mr West —No. That is going to be taken out.


Mr HODGMAN —That will be taken out. It is funny that people can be bulleted out of the country for seditious words, but not for spying. That is unbelievable. Section 25 refers to incitement to munity; section 26 refers to assisting prisoners of war to escape; and section 27 refers to unlawful drilling. People cannot be deported for offences under section 28 which refers to interfering with political liberty-that is really great-or for offences under section 29 with regard to destroying or damaging of Commonwealth property.


Mr Goodluck —You cannot get rid of Bellamy.


Mr HODGMAN —Exactly. People cannot be deported under section 30 which refers to the seizure of goods in Commonwealth custody. The only other sections under which a person can be deported are section 6, which refers to being an accessory after the fact, section 7 which relates to attempts to commit any offence against Commonwealth law, section 7A which relates to inciting and section 86 (1 ) which refers to conspiracy.

I challenge any member of the Government to deny that a person who is convicted of an offence under sections 77 and 78 of the Crimes Act-that is, espionage or, in simple language, spying-who is liable to seven year's imprisonment can not be deported. If that person harbours a spy and is prosecuted under section 81, he or she could be gaoled for seven years. Have you done your homework? Do you really mean to tell the people of Australia that you will not reserve the power to deport a spy because he or she has been in this country for 10 years? You have all gone off in a tizzy over drug trafficking. I do not know why you have put yourselves in a position of protecting murderers and drug traffickers. You have also put yourself in the position of protecting spies. You can call me a fascist, a maggot, or whatever you like. But what I have said, in law, is correct. If you cannot understand your own Bills, I suggest that you, Mr Deputy Prime Minister, should adjourn this debate and obtain an opinion on this legislation. I will stake my professional reputation on the fact that what I have said is true and correct. I will tell you now that you will be the laughing stock of the world if you pass this legislation without accepting my amendment. Australia will be the only country in the world which is not prepared to deport people who are spies or who harbour spies.

You can have the laugh on me. Mr Deputy Prime Minister, you and I have sat on the Committee of Privileges. We do not agree on many things. I invite any lawyer of repute to dispute what I have said. The fact is that you have not done your homework. You will place on the statute books a power to deport people for treason, sedition and treachery, which have never occurred in this country. There has never been a trial on any those matters. But you will not deport murderers, drug traffickers or spies. If you believe that that is good government, I tell you that the people of Australia will have a pretty good look at you, because this is the crummiest piece of socialist legislation I have seen in my life. I appeal to you to look again at this matter. The Deputy Prime Minister is in the chamber. If he does not agree with what I have said, let him contradict me here and now. Nowhere have you given your Minister power to deport a spy. Nowhere have you given him power to deport somebody who harbours a spy. Is that the way that you will protect the national security of Australia? If it is, you should all be ashamed.