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Tuesday, 19 July 1910

Mr GROOM (Darling Downs) .- I am glad that the Prime Minister realizes what I am trying to show - that we ought to know, in case of difficulty, where the States stand and where the Treasurer stands. We are all agreed, I think, as to the advisability of abolishing any machinery which interferes with Inter- State trade. But supposing that during the next six months, owing to some misfortune, the Government are not able to make any arrangements with the States, and the Braddon section continues to operate, the States being entitled to three-fourths of the revenue, what is the basis on which the States are going to be paid during that period of six months? If we keep section 4 of the Act, revenue will have to be credited, and the expenditure debited, according to certain lines. If we delete the bookkeeping sections, must not there be some machinery provided for the next six months, in case the States should not fall into line with the Commonwealth, to determine what the States are to get? If the Prime Minister will look through the Bill, he will find that he is not providing for that contingency. He provides for the payment of monthly instalments, by which the States shall not get more than -25s. per capita in the twelve months. These, he says, he will adjust to comply with section 87. The adjustments should be made monthly; but section 93 and section 89 of the Constitution have been superseded by the Surplus Revenue Aci 1908. During the next sixmonths, when the monthly adjustments are being made, some principle for payment must be adopted. Will it be the per capita principle'?

Mr Fisher - Not necessarily.

Mr GROOM - What will it be?

Mr Fisher - The collection.

Mr GROOM - But the whole basis of the collection has been repealed by section 4 of the Surplus Revenue Act 1908 as amended.

Mr Fisher - Our books will show the collection.

Mr GROOM - But no definite basis at law is being laid down. For instance, during the next six months Tasmania will not be able to get any benefit if section 4, subsection b, goes. The Treasurer of that State may say that, during that time, he is determined to stand by the Constitution ; and the Prime Minister will not be able to give any credit for goods passing from one State to another, because fie has wiped out the machinery for doing so.

Mr Fisher - That will hardly be wanted under the agreement.

Mr GROOM - But who is to determine? Is it to be the fiat of the Treasurer ?

Mr Fisher - The amount collected.

Mr GROOM - Do I understand that if, during the next six months, the States will not come into line with the Commonwealth, the Prime Minister will bring about the desired result by an administrative act? When the Bill is passed the Prime Minister will say, " The whole basis of the bookkeeping machinery is gone, and during the next six months I, as Treasurer, will give direction to the Secretary of the Treasury to keep accounts on certain lines; I shall tell him not to take any notice of- Inter-State certificates, because I am going to credit the revenue and debit the expenditure in each State, and shall pay over the balances to the States in proportion." That is one way which might be directed. '

Mr Fisher - What would be the matter with such a way?

Mr GROOM - The matter might be that one State might get less than under another system.

Mr Finlayson - All the States will get 25s. per capita.

Mr GROOM - Ultimately ; but during the next six months what are the States to expect, and on what basis? I suggest that the consideration of the clause should be postponed. I raise the point simply because there is a difficulty presented. For instance, if the Premier of Queensland desired to know on what basis the payments would be made during the. next six months - whether per capita or on crediting revenue, debiting expenditure and payment of balances to each State - what answer would the Prime Minister give?

Mr Fisher - Will the honorable member address himself to the question assuming the bookkeeping sections are abrogated altogether.

Mr GROOM - I am assuming that, the Treasurer's difficulty may arise in the distribution of the three-fourths.

Mr Fisher - I do not see any difficulty.

Mr GROOM - I think the honorable member will find that it exists. Is he going to make the return on a pgr capita or a bookkeeping basis? As Treasurer, will he not be compelled to decide one way or the other, as the bookkeeping basis is completely wiped out, and it would appear that he makes no provision as to the method by which the revenue is to be distributed for this period of six months?

Mr G B EDWARDS (NORTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES) - He proposes to refund it on a collection basis, but he will balance up next year on the 25s. per capita basis.

Mr GROOM - That may be proposed, but is it being not laid down as a matter of law? What we are most concerned about, and what the States may want to know, is how the Treasurer proposes to distribute the balances, and will it depend on the basis on which he is going to keep his books? If the Treasurer is satisfied that the course he is taking is correct, I am satisfied that I have done my duty in raising the point, but it would be just as well for him to consult' the Crown Law authorities on the point.. It may be that, either way you take it, it does not make much difference in the end.

Mr Fisher - It does not make a penny of difference.

Mr GROOM - Does the honorable member say that that is so during the next six months, and that he has been so advised ?

Mr Fisher - Yes.

Mr GROOM - Then if the Treasurer is so advised by the Crown Law authorities. I shall say no more on the point.

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