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Tuesday, 23 August 2011
Page: 5179

Health Services Union

Senator RONALDSON (Victoria) (14:12): My question is to the Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations. I refer the minister to reports in today's Australian that the financial statements for the Health Services Union—the union previously headed by Mr Craig Thomson—disclose that the union is insolvent. Given the Prime Minister's comments this morning, can the minister as a matter of urgency advise the Senate of the status of Fair Work Australia's investigation into the affairs of the HSU and in particular the solvency of the union?

Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Australia—Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:13): I thank Senator Ronaldson for the question. I can indicate that I have no particular knowledge of the claims that the union is insolvent, but I do not interfere with investigations by Fair Work Australia.

Senator Cormann: You're only the minister responsible!

Senator CHRIS EVANS: Senator Cormann, I know your arrogance knows no bounds, but some of us as ministers act responsibly. Before I was interrupted by Senator Cormann I was indicating to the chamber in response to Senator Ronaldson's question that I have no particular knowledge of the claims made in the Australian newspaper today but I can reconfirm that, as Senator Ronaldson knows, Fair Work Australia on 18 August issued a statement when they clarified what was occurring in relation to their investigations into the Health Services Union. That statement was put out by Fair Work Australia on 18 August in relation to some claims made in the media earlier that day claiming that Fair Work Australia had commenced a new inquiry in these matters. Fair Work Australia put out a statement which said that the media report was incorrect.

Senator RONALDSON: On a point of order: regarding that statement in relation to reports as to whether an inquiry had been finalised, that was not my question today. I ask the minister again whether he will as a matter of urgency please investigate this, having undertaken on Monday to take it on notice and provide me with an answer, which he has so far refused to do.

Senator LUDWIG: What we now have from the opposition is not a point of order but what can be described as an opportunity to rise to their feet and re-ask the question. I submit there is no point of order. The minister has been answering the question as asked and, even though Senator Ronaldson did not go to it, the minister has been directly relevant to the question asked.

The PRESIDENT: I believe the minister is answering the question. The minister has 35 seconds remaining to answer the question.

Senator CHRIS EVANS: In terms of the interjection made in that point of order by Senator Ronaldson, he was given a reply to the question that I took notice. I tabled it at the end of question time yesterday, so his claims in relation to that matter are false—and he knows them to be false.

Senator RONALDSON: On the point of order: my claims indeed are not false and I ask the minister to withdraw that.

The PRESIDENT: That is debating the issue.

Senator ABETZ: It is one thing to assert that a senator's information is wrong or false; it is another thing to assert that it is knowingly false, as the Leader of the Government just did. That is what imputes motives and that is why it ought to be withdrawn.

Senator CHRIS EVANS: Mr President, all I can say is that I looked directly at Senator Ronaldson when I incorporated it yesterday; he was in the chamber. If somehow my claim of 'knowingly' is misleading, given that I was looking at him and I incorporated it in the chamber I do not see what it is I have to withdraw. I am amazed that Senator Ronaldson seeks to deny the claim. But if that is your request, Mr President, I will withdraw if that helps.

The PRESIDENT: I was not in the chamber. I understand Senator Evans has withdrawn. Senator Evans, you have still 19 seconds remaining.

Senator CHRIS EVANS: Can I just be clear: this is a matter that is being investigated by Fair Work Australia. They issued a statement on 18 August that updated the public as to where their inquiry was at, and all I can do is point Senator Ronaldson to that statement.

Senator RONALDSON (Victoria) (14:17): Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given that the official auditors have refused to verify the union's books, declaring that they cannot say if the financial reports are 'in accordance with the Workplace Relations Act' and that they cannot 'obtain all the explanations required to form an opinion on the official report', will the minister take steps available to him under the Fair Work Act to ensure that administrators are appointed or does he intend to stonewall this to protect Mr Thomson?

Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Australia—Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:18): I think the suggestion from Senator Ronaldson now is that I should interfere in Fair Work Australia's investigations into and handling of the complaints. That is totally inappropriate. As I indicated yesterday, when I tabled the response to the question I took on notice from Senator Ronaldson, Fair Work Australia provided this advice:

Fair Work Australia commenced investi­gations relating to possible breaches of the Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Act 2009. That inquiry is still ongoing.

Consistent with the information provided to Senator Ronaldson at Senate Estimates on 30 May 2011, Fair Work Australia believes that the investigation may be finalised in the latter half of this year. This continues to be the case.

That was the answer I gave him yesterday. That is the advice from Fair Work Australia, and I have no intention of interfering in their investigation.

Senator RONALDSON (Victoria) (14:19): Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given that the financial statements reveal that the HSU had a total deficiency in shareholder funds of $174,076 in 2010, the year that Mr Thomson quit as national secretary, does the minister believe that it was appropriate for Mr Thomson to spend thousands of dollars of union funds on escort services?

The PRESIDENT: Minister, you can answer that part of it which relates to your portfolio.

Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Australia—Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:19): Again, I congratulate Senator Ronaldson on reading the paper this morning, but that does not constitute an appropriate question to a minister at question time. I made it very clear to him that the advice from Fair Work Australia is that they have an ongoing investigation into the HSU. I have no intention of interfering in that investigation and I do not intend commen­tating on aspects of that investigation or on matters that may be covered by that investigation. We will not be interfering in the proper functions, under the act, of Fair Work Australia.

Senator Brandis interjecting—

Senator CHRIS EVANS: Senator Brandis, you lose your legal aspects when it suits you. Your claims to impartiality and proper process go out of the window when you think there is a cheap political point to be made. Senator Brandis, you ought not interrupt because, on previous occasions, you have argued for proper process. This is proper process; this is a minister refusing to interfere in the investigation of one of his agencies. You may recommend it, but I will not be doing it.