Senator McGAURAN (6:06 PM) —On the issue of bushfires, Senator Barnaby Joyce raised the excellent point—

Senator Barnett interjecting—

Senator McGAURAN —You have raised an excellent point too, Senator—we all have, and that is the point I am trying to make. On this side of the chamber we have all made excellent points, and what happens? We get glared down by the minister, who is becoming tetchier and tetchier as the hour goes on. And then I notice that Senator McEwen jumps up, as a filler—that is her role: a filler—and then goes right off the actual narrowness that we have been told we have to keep to on Greens amendments. She went right off on the whole debate of climate change. Well, thank you, you have just opened it all up for us now and we appreciate that. But then the minister follows Senator McEwen and she is all smiles—a little giggly even.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Senator Troeth)—Senator McGauran—

Senator McGAURAN —But that is the point: we are not getting the right treatment on this side, and respect, and answers to questions—particularly Senator Joyce—that we ought to. That is the point I am making.

Senator Joyce made the perfect point about the Victorian fires: that the emissions effect they had was something like 15 to 20 per cent of overall Australian emissions, which makes a mockery of the attempt by the government to reduce emissions, because in one big Victorian bushfire there it all goes—wiped out. How are we going to account for that? We are not. We are putting it aside and ignoring it.

If the minister were serious about reducing carbon emissions she would pay a visit to her Victorian state government to get them to do better. They have just finished a royal commission that went for over 12 months and probably cost over $100 million and the one thing that this royal commission did not come up with was a connection between the Victorian bushfires and climate change. The royal commission could not come to that conclusion and nor could Senator McEwen on the other side. The Victorian fires had a lot to do with the failure of the Victorian government to provide resources to equip the CFA so that it could respond quickly and with the right equipment. It had a lot to do with such things as road access and proper vehicles. It had a lot to do with the warning systems available. Therein lie the reasons for the loss of life, and the greater the tragedy of it all. Also, it had a great deal to do with the question of fuel loads. If you are really serious, why don’t you talk to your state colleagues about that—about burning off?

I will be followed by Senator Back—and I am glad I am speaking before him. He was a fire fighter in a previous life in Western Australia. He once told me that when the Western Australians came over during the Victorian bushfires to support and act as volunteers they could not believe the fuel loads that Victorian fire fighters were fighting. They were impossible. He will develop this subject and give you the figures, the statistics, such as the weight per square metre. The Western Australians have a very good system in place. The importance of this issue of burning off—and that was the key point of the Victorian bushfires—is that that is where you will get, and did get, your 15 to 20 per cent emissions effect in Victoria alone.

It is the question of burning off. It is the management by the state governments. You could put it all to rest. You do not even have to have the whole structure you will have in place, this accounting system that no-one can get to the bottom of—what is in it and what is not and how you actually measure it. Why don’t you just get the state governments to do their jobs. That would be the real solution, if you were at all serious about it, instead of twisting the knife into Victorian industries, such as the aluminium industry, while they are trying to reduce their emissions. There is also the cement industry, the brick industry and all the small businesses. While they are trying to apply themselves to this impossible scheme, one bushfire just finishes it. What an absurdity. It adds to the absurdity of all of this. It adds to the absurdity and foolishness of the scheme. There is every chance it is going to get beaten yet.

Senator Barnett —We are not giving up.

Senator McGAURAN —No, we are not giving up. And we on this side do not like being looked down on. This is the Senate and you, Minister, are accountable. We ask you to contain yourself. You are not behind closed doors with Ian Macfarlane now. I do not know how you treated him, but you do not treat the Senate the same way. They are saying you attempted to treat him that way.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN —Senator McGauran, I ask you to stick to the question.

Senator McGAURAN —And the question is what I have just highlighted, and so will the speakers to follow me: the absolute idiocy of this whole scheme, just on this amendment alone. No-one knows how to account it and that is the truth of it. We have had several questions from the Greens—they do not know. With every question that has been put since I have been here, and I have been here for several hours, the minister does not have a clue. It is all so general; it is all behind closed doors. It is foolishness at its zenith. I will conclude on this point: go down to Mr Brumby, the Premier, and tell him to do his job.