Senator JOYCE (Leader of the Nationals in the Senate) (4:28 PM) —If that is the case, this would suggest that, quite obviously, if we have to find $7.5 billion when we net it off it does not mean we have to find an amount less than $7.5 billion; it means that when you net it off, because these moneys are allocated to other provisions and therefore, in fact, cannot be used as a set-off for the $7.5 million, we actually have to find the $7.5 billion to pay the debt. You cannot net it off because the money cannot go from the Future Fund to pay off the bonds; the money from the Future Fund has to go back to the Future Fund. It cannot be set off against the debt. Tell me if that statement is right or wrong or do you believe that the Future Fund money can actually be delivered to set off the debt—that is, sent off to people to pay for the interest on the bonds they buy from the Australian government?

The next issue is that it seems to be apparent, if this is trending down, that even on your net figures your interest payments would have to be trending up. Our debt is going to become more extensive as we fully draw down on the facility. Even by your own figures, you have gone from $2.3 billion down to $1.8 billion. So there is half a billion dollars extra that somebody is going to have to find and pay. I want an answer on that. I really do want to know if the government can give the Australian people a number as to what it believes is excessive debt held by the government.