Senator CARR (Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) (6:41 PM) —Thank you, Senator Mason. Yes, you are quite right: there is a provision under section 54-1 that, if a provider breaches a condition of a grant, the minister may reduce, or require repayment of some of, the grant. It is entirely discretionary. It is a process of negotiation that occurs where there is an allegation of a breach. To my knowledge, it has never been exercised, because these matters are resolved through a negotiation process.

On the other hand, the proposal that you have before the chamber is for a mandatory 7.5 per cent reduction of the university’s base grant. Nothing could be more different in the approach and, of course, that is the point I make to you. There are ample measures of accountability in the legislation, but they are based on discretion and a sensible discussion with people who actually run universities. The assumption that you make is that universities should be treated like some 1950s high school where the minister sits back, sort of like a director general of education, and can manage universities as if they operated something like schools in a previous generation. The directors general of education used to have that sort of power. They do not even have it in schools anymore. That is not how the school system functions anymore, but that is the mentality that the Liberal Party seems to be relying upon.