Senator LUDWIG (11:27 AM) —We believe that the courts already retain a discretion pursuant to clauses 29(2) and 29(3) to determine the circumstances in which a defendant or their legal representative may be present during a closed hearing. The Greens' amendment should not be accepted because the court already retains that discretion under those provisions and the amendment does not add anything to the bill. Clauses 29(2) and 29(3) already outline the process. Rather than reiterate that process, we have to get over the hurdle of understanding the difference between a closed hearing and a trial. The discretion rests in those two provisions. For those reasons we are not prepared to accept the amendment.