Senator GEORGE CAMPBELL (7:37 PM) —Mr Acting Deputy President, I seek leave to make a personal explanation.

Leave granted.

Senator GEORGE CAMPBELL —I understand in an earlier contribution to this debate tonight Senator Brandis made comments to the effect that I had said across the chamber yesterday that I preferred Saddam Hussein to Donald Rumsfeld. That is an absolute lie. What I did say—

Senator Brandis —Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. That is unparliamentary, as you well know, Mr Acting Deputy President.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Marshall)—You are correct, Senator Brandis. I ask you to withdraw that, Senator George Campbell.

Senator GEORGE CAMPBELL —I will withdraw the word `lie', but that is a total distortion of the truth. What I did say across the chamber—and it was in the middle of question time when there was a lot of noise in the chamber, so people's hearing on that side must be substantially better than mine—were words to the effect that in the 1990s Donald Rumsfeld and Saddam Hussein were the best of friends, and there is plenty of evidence around on tape to demonstrate that, of Donald Rumsfeld sitting in Saddam's office or in the palace shaking hands with the leader of Iraq. They were the words that were said across the chamber. I did not say at any stage that I preferred Saddam Hussein to Donald Rumsfeld. If Senator Brandis has any moral courage, he will apologise; if he has any courage, he will walk outside those doors and make the statement in public.

Senator Tchen —Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. I understand Senator George Campbell was giving the Senate his version of the interjection.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT —He is making a personal explanation, Senator Tchen.

Senator Tchen —Is he seriously saying that that was his interjection, because if he was not then he should not be making an explanation.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT —What is your point of order, Senator?

Senator Tchen —I think Senator George Campbell is taking advantage and making a speech.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT —There is no point of order.

Senator Hill —Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. In a personal explanation you can explain your position, as Senator George Campbell has done. Within that personal explanation, you have no right to demand anything. If you want to demand something then you have to move a substantive motion.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT —Senator George Campbell, have you finished your personal explanation?

Senator GEORGE CAMPBELL —Yes, Mr Acting Deputy President—but it is still only 50 yards to courage.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT —Thank you, Senator George Campbell.

Question agreed to.

Bills read a second time.