Senator COONEY (11:41 AM) —As Senator Ray got to his feet, I am prompted to make this further remark: we could, of course, not pay anybody anything at all, as was done with Charles Jardine Don. He was elected in the late 1850s to represent Collingwood and he did a grand job in the Legislative Assembly. But he was not paid at all, so during the day he had to work as a stonemason. It was not until 1870 that pay was given to members in Victoria—

Senator COONEY —Do not spoil the story, Senator Ray! In any event, that is the other side of this. There has got to be a security in this place so that people can legislate as they should. There are two things given to judges: security of tenure and a good pension. The idea of that is to ensure that they are able to do their job, without fear or favour, while they are there. Anybody can be paid too much and, as Senator Murray and Senator Brown have pointed out, that does happen outside; I agree that that happens. But we have just got to be a bit careful that we do not go into self—what is that word?

Honourable senators—Flagellation.

Senator COONEY —That is the one! Thanks very much. It is the old mind! It is about time I went!

Honourable senators—No, no!

Senator COONEY —We do not want to be feeding at the trough; but, on the other hand, we do want to be feeding at a reasonable level. I want to make that comment in this context.