Senator LUDWIG (2:17 PM) —My question without notice is to Senator Kemp, the Assistant Treasurer. What is the minister's response to the findings of the survey conducted by the National Association of Retail Grocers of Australia, which found that retail grocers with a turnover of up to $5 million paid an average $6,199 in ongoing GST compliance costs for the six months ended 31 December 2000? This did not even include the costs of BAS preparation. Didn't these compliance costs for small retailers represent 28.25 per cent of GST collected versus only 1.25 per cent for large retailers? Don't these survey results prove that the GST has been a boon for the Howard government's big business mates and an absolute disaster for small business?

Senator KEMP (Assistant Treasurer) —I will mention what has been an absolute disaster for small business: a Labor government for 13 years. In view of the comments by the senator, let me recall to the Senate that under the Labor government interest rates for small business at times rose to over 20 per cent—very bad for small business. Then, of course, we had the recession we had to have, and tens of thousands of people were thrown out of jobs. Many small businesses just could not survive as a result of this recession—very bad for small business. Then, of course, under Labor we had not only high levels of interest rates but also high taxes. We had trade union power, and the senator—more than anyone in this chamber—would know just how effectively and ruthlessly that was exercised under the Labor government. What is bad for small business—and the record of 13 years of mismanagement of the economy shows it—is a Labor government.

I would invite anyone in small business to just look around this chamber and the other place and see the number of people in the Labor Party who have come out of the trade union movement. I would like people in small business to ask: how much in common with and how much real feeling for the concerns of small business do these former trade union bosses have? The answer is: not much at all. The Labor Party hold themselves up as being concerned about small business but, as they are—as my colleague Senator Alston says—a fully paid-up subsidiary of the trade union movement, and as most of their senators come from the trade union movement, I think there is no sympathy at all for the concerns of small business.

Let me now turn to the specifics of the question that was raised. I point out that of course people in business have incurred some start-up costs associated with the goods and services tax. These costs will vary from business to business, and many of the costs are lower for those companies which have good computer systems and accounting systems. Many people in business will benefit from the updated equipment that will assist in their general business activities. Further—and I think this is a point worth making—as businesses become more familiar with the GST system, the government expects a substantial reduction in compliance costs. Probably not included in the survey is the fact that many start-up costs associated with making accounting systems compatible with the GST will be tax deductible, which the senator may not know. I make the point, in the light of the tenor of the argument and the question that was put forward by the senator, that what is really bad for small business is a Labor government. You only have to look at the record— (Time expired)

Senator LUDWIG —Madam President, I have a supplementary question. Can the minister confirm that the government's big business mates spent $4 million promoting the GST on behalf of the government? Isn't it now small business who are paying the bill via skyrocketing compliance costs, small business closures and increased time on being an unpaid tax collector for the Prime Minister and the Treasurer?

Senator KEMP (Assistant Treasurer) —I make the point that the premise that underpins the question is quite wrong. If the senator believed that—and I have thrown out this challenge before—why is the Labor Party proposing to keep the goods and services tax? Why is the Labor Party standing up day after day attacking the goods and services tax when it will form the central part of its tax policy at the next election? If I am wrong, Senator Ludwig can stand up after question time and put it on the record. I have thrown out the challenge to Senator Cook, Senator Crossinand Senator George Campbell to stand up after question time and say I am wrong and not one of them has fronted.