Senator BARTLETT (2:58 PM) —My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Senator Alston. The minister would be aware that state, territory and federal agriculture and primary industries ministers are meeting in Brisbane this Friday, the ARMCANZ meeting, to consider, among other things, a proposal to phase out the use of the battery cage system of egg production. The minister may also be aware that over 2,000 public submissions received as part of the community consultation process in the lead-up to ARMCANZ showed the vast majority in support of getting rid of the battery cage, and of the RSPCA's presentation of over 54,000 signatures and 23,000 postcards in support of a similar move. Given the vast majority of community support, including that demonstrated through independent public surveys in favour of a move to phase out the battery cage, will the federal government listen to the community's concerns at this Friday's ARMCANZ meeting and support proposals to phase out the cage?

Senator ALSTON (Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) —This essentially is a state responsibility, but we have an interest in the issue. We will listen to what community groups have to say, but we will not be driven simply by trying to get at the chook vote. We are more interested in ensuring that there is a proper scientific basis for judgments to be made about which particular system might be appropriate. There are layer box arrangements for free range and barn style systems and clearly there would seem to be a fair degree of preference for those models rather than the conventional cage model. At the end of the day, this matter will have to be carefully considered by state ministers as much as by the federal government, if they have the ultimate decision making power. We would be quite content if we are satisfied not only that there have been discussions with interested parties but also that there has been some scientific assessment made with a proper understanding of animal physiology and behavioural characteristics. It should not simply be decided on emotion; it should be decided on fact. We would hope that that material would be before the ARMCANZ meeting on Friday.

Senator BARTLETT —Madam President, I ask a supplementary question. The minister may also be aware that the European Union has already decided to move to phase out battery cage production, a move which I presume he would concede is based on scientific evidence. Given that the minister has said that this is predominantly a state issue, will he give a guarantee, if the majority of states support a move to phase out the cage, that the federal government will not stand in their way?

Senator ALSTON (Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) —That is a funny sort of decision making process. What you are really saying is, irrespective of the merits of the argument or the position that we might come to—

Senator Bartlett —I am saying what the state governments want to do.

Senator ALSTON —Exactly. If they are the ones who make the ultimate decision and they are the ones who implement new codes of practice in animal welfare, then of course it is their responsibility and entitlement, but if you are saying that we should now effectively concede the pass, irrespective of any arguments that we might examine that persuade us in a particular direction, then of course we will not take that position. Our position is that we want the issue resolved. We do believe that the industry is working on a phase-out arrangement, that the codes of practice are an appropriate mechanism for reflecting the best way of achieving an outcome that is in the best interests of all concerned, but the Commonwealth would be abdicating its responsibilities if it simply took the view, irrespective of the merits of the argument, that states rights should prevail in terms of our attitude.