Senator CARR (4:59 PM) —The issues before us today, in deploring the loss of the Cox Peninsula transmitter, go to our concern about the effect that such a policy decision made by our government will have on our national interest. There can be no better explanation of our concern than the simple fact that our signal cannot be heard in Timor. During the terrible crisis in August and September last year, Radio Australia could not be heard in Timor. There were some 800,000 East Timorese and hundreds of Australians in East Timor at the time who could not listen to our signal. They could not rely upon the voice of Australia. It strikes me that this government should be deplored for that action.

Senator McGauran —If that's true.

Senator CARR —If that's true, Senator McGauran, as you say, they should be deplored. I think you will find when you check, as you have just done, that that is the case.

Senator McGauran —On a point of order, Mr Acting Deputy Chairman: Senator Carr is putting words into my mouth. Whatever I said was not directed at Senator Carr. It was never taken as an interjection. I believe that should be struck out of Hansard. I was not directing any comment to Senator Carr. He would basically have no idea what I said.

Senator Boswell —It was a private conversation.

Senator McGauran —I feel offended by him thinking he can put that into Hansard and then attribute it to me.

Senator Carr —Mr Acting Deputy President, those were the words uttered by Senator McGauran. His voice carries extremely well in this chamber. The acoustics are quite clear. My hearing is excellent. Senator McGauran, you would be unwise to deny that those were the words you actually said.

Senator McGauran —It was not an interjection.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Bartlett)—There is no need to rule on the point of order, as Senator McGauran has made his statement. Senator Carr might like to get on with debating the motion.

Senator McGauran —On another point of order, Mr Acting Deputy President: therefore, if I may indulge you via the clerks, will that go into Hansard? That is the important point. It is a misrepresentation of any comment I would make to Senator Carr.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT —I do not think Senator Carr's comments can be removed from the Hansard. If Hansard thought they heard an interjection you made and may have misheard it, depending on the ability of their hearing, then you might like to take it up with them in terms of any listing they may have. Certainly, your clarification of any potential mishearing they may have had of any comment you may or may not have made is already on the record as part of your point of order. So I am sure it will be fine.

Senator CARR —Having sufficiently drawn everyone's attention to your remarks, Senator McGauran, I feel vindicated. The facilities at Cox Peninsula were closed amid a huge outcry both here and abroad. Cox Peninsula transmitter was closed against the advice of all the experts on Asian affairs and international relations within this country. It was closed against the wishes of a huge, loyal and longstanding audience of Radio Australia in Indonesia, in China and in other countries, as well as in East Timor. I repeat, Senator McGauran: our signal cannot be heard in Timor, and that is a disgrace. It cannot be heard in East Timor as a direct result of the action taken by this government. The government has effectively silenced this country in many homes throughout Asia. Radio Australia was once a crucial medium for communication in Asia, where millions of people simply cannot afford a television set, cannot provide Internet connections and cannot afford the satellite communication which the government claims is now the replacement.

In remote regions, short-wave radio is the only means of communications. Before the closure of Cox Peninsula, Radio Australia afforded this country a listening audience in Asia and the opportunity to have a reliable, unbiased, secular, uncensored radio service. It was often broadcast in the languages of the people the signal was sent to. It covered news and current affairs of relevance to their countries. It may not have been popular with all governments in the region. It may not always have been popular with various governments within this country. It may not have met the requirements of various officials in Foreign Affairs and Trade, but it was acknowledged by the people throughout the region to be a reliable, unbiased, uncensored radio service which was able to provide accurate information about what was actually going on. While it may not have been liked by governments, it certainly was regarded fondly by the peoples of the region.

Radio Australia reached out to millions of people who were hungry for information and entertainment. It taught English to countless people through its famous language courses. One person who has been drawn to my attention on the issue of communicating and educating people is Mau Huno, a great leader of the independence struggle in East Timor. He took up the reins after the imprisonment of Xanana Gusmao by the Indonesians in 1991. Before his death, he was able to speak English fluently. As the leader of Falantil, you might ask how it was that he was able to develop that skill. It was through Radio Australia. The leader of the Timorese resistance may well have felt isolated during many dark hours of that struggle, but through Radio Australia he could reach out to his friends in other parts of the world.

Radio Australia had a broadcast capacity which reached an estimated 18.4 million people in Asia and the Pacific. In Indonesia, Radio Australia's audience was over 8½ million, with more than two million regular listeners. That in itself represents a major advantage to this country and a great opportunity for this country to communicate with the people of our nearest neighbour. Through this reach of the station we have seen capacity to express a view about what this country stands for. It represents all of us in that capacity. In recent times, we have seen that reach decimated. Throughout most of Indonesia and, as I say, Timor you cannot receive Radio Australia today. I have some information here that goes particularly to this issue of the capacity of Radio Australia to be heard. The minister says, `Well, we have a series of rebroadcast stations operating throughout the region.' I am told that there are some 51 stations that take Radio Australia in Asia. But, Senator McGauran, you ought to be aware of this: only three of those 51 stations, which of course broadcast in local languages, take Radio Australia news. Even where our signal is being rebroadcast, it is minus all the bits that actually make it important and very worth while. In terms of the minister's claim that there are increasing rates of people taking up Internet connections, the fact remains that that does not have a significant impact in terms of the availability of that technology within the countries in our region.

In Cambodia, we see a similar pattern being exhibited. On this issue of rebroadcast, we notice from a recent survey—Radio Australia did not actually have the money to undertake it themselves and they bought it off someone else, so it may not be strictly speaking comparable to the figures published in the Senate report in May 1997—that in Cambodia at the time of the survey no Khmer language news and current affairs was being rebroadcast by local stations because of the political pressures that have been brought to bear. We can see the same pattern being exhibited throughout the region. That ought to be understood by government senators if they have any real interest in what the political impact of this decision has been.

Radio Australia provides a news service which, on balance, concentrates on events in the Asia-Pacific region, unlike the BBC or the American short-wave services which have a much broader interest and do not necessarily reflect the interests of our region explicitly. Another reason we ought to be concerned about this issue which has been demonstrated in recent days is our capacity to communicate not just with the peoples of the region but with Australians in the region. We have seen the situation in Fiji and in the Solomons in recent times. I acknowledge that our Pacific reach is quite good, and that point has been made in the contributions here this afternoon. The government has spent money on Shepparton facilities to make sure that the Pacific region is well catered for. This highlights the need that exists. Many parts of the region are in constant turmoil. There is a particular political need for us to ensure that we have the capacity in times of unrest to make sure that we can communicate with our citizens. We have the unfortunate circumstances, for instance in Indonesia, where there is a need for us to be able to express the views of the government. Where evacuation issues come about, it is critical for us to have the capacity to provide advice to citizens concerning evacuation plans and the like. It goes beyond the cultural issues. It goes beyond the issues we have talked about this afternoon in terms of trade. It goes beyond presenting a positive image of this country to our neighbours. It goes to very practical concerns about the safety of Australians.

All of this is old ground. A new group of people is taking over the facility on Cox Peninsula. It has been leased out to a foreign private organisation. I might say that the discussion I have heard this afternoon quite disturbs me. The government emphasises what it believes to be the value for money that it has received in terms of the assets of Radio Australia—as if we can reduce the reputation of this country to a mere commodity exchange. This government takes a fundamentally different view to the issue of our reputation and our strategic interest from the view of many other governments in the world. I notice, for instance, the British government has recently restated the simple proposition that the BBC World Service is an institution of enormous strategic importance to the British government. However, in Australia the government is quite easily able to sell the equipment of Radio Australia to a foreign private organisation.

It is not just any foreign private organisation, for that matter. The transmitter is being rented out to a religious organisation based in the United Kingdom known as Christian Vision. Senator Abetz is concerned to defend evangelical groups and it is his right to do that. However, I think it is important to emphasise that there would be very few senators in this place who would not acknowledge the right of persons to believe any religious philosophy they want to follow, and their freedom to express that. But there are other issues that need to be considered when it comes to the question of whether or not this particular group is able to represent effectively Australia's voice within the region. That is what this is all about—the implications of this government's sale of the facilities at Cox Point to this particular group of people. It is important that we understand that no foreign organisation, religious or otherwise, automatically has the capacity to impose a view which can be represented as the views of the people of this country.

I see, for instance, that today the Prime Minister is likely to meet the President of Indonesia, President Wahid. This is long overdue. For many months there has been a tremendous chill in the relationship between this country and Indonesia, a chill which should not have been allowed to go on for as long as it has. There will be a falling out with Indonesia from time to time. I recall that in the early 1990s Australian journalists were banned from Indonesia. And, of course, there have been problems with Malaysia at various times throughout the last decade. I think it is important that we mend our bridges with Asia. It is important that we maintain our ties and strengthen our channels of communication wherever we possibly can without denying fundamental human rights or the differences that exist between our cultures and societies.

The broadcasts in English by and large have to be of a quality that ensures that the sorts of values this society represents are communicated effectively throughout the region. I am, however, concerned about any prospect of provocation in regard to conflicts that occur within the region. For those purposes we must understand that, whatever one's religious views, there has to be some acknowledgment that there are responsibilities that go beyond the mere expression of a sense of one's place in the world. Equally, for Muslim groups there exist the same sorts of obligations in terms of working within the region.

The government has been speaking recently on a bill before the parliament, the Broadcasting Services Amendment Bill (No. 4) 1999. This bill was introduced on 9 December last year. It is intended to establish a new licensing regime to govern foreign broadcasters transmitting from Australia, such foreign broadcasters as Christian Vision. I am sure that there are many problems which will have to be dealt with when the bill finally gets to the Senate. The bill is clearly intended to ensure that foreign broadcasters operating out of Australia do no harm to our national interests. Mr McGauran, the minister for the arts, said in his second reading speech:

If the government were serious in its intentions as expressed in this bill, it would have ensured that the bill was in law at the moment. I would have thought it would not have leased the Cox Peninsula facility to the Christian Vision organisation without the bill being in place. Senator Abetz has particular religious views. He has an ill-informed, ignorant, authoritarian attitude towards those who do not share his particular sense of morality and his particular notion of what is Christian and what is not. I might say that it is an offensive view to many more than the 20 per cent of Australians who do not necessarily directly share a Christian view—highly offensive, I would have thought, to the Islamic and Jewish communities in this country and to those who do not share his particular notions of worship.

Christian Vision says in its statement of its core beliefs and tenets that people who are not Christians will suffer `everlasting conscious punishment'. Perhaps it is a view that Senator Abetz would agree with. This is an organisation which is particularly serious about its views on conversion and about its notions of what Christianity is all about. I would have thought they were views that not all mainstream organisations within the Christian churches would necessarily have much in common with. Given the vehemence with which the views are expressed, it presents a problem for us within the region.

Australia is part of a world community. A transmitter facility in Australia ought not be used in a way that undermines our national interest and that does not meet the national interest of Australians as a broad community. As citizens within this region we have a right to express views and to live in common harmony with our neighbours. Professor Kenneth McPherson, the Director of the Indian Ocean Research Centre, wrote to the minister for communications on 31 January 1997. He said:

The leasing out of the same facilities to a particular international broadcaster, in my judgment, is a disaster for this country of potentially huge proportions. To rely upon facilities in other countries to get our signal out, equally, is a misfortune that we should do something about. The reliance by this government on a particular ideological view of what is good for this region is, equally, a disaster. The actions of this government ought to be deplored. They betray Australia's national interest and confirm to the listeners the lack of interest of the Australian government in the Asian region and convey an attempt by the Australian government to nullify an Australian voice to the region.

I support the motion that is before the Senate today. I urge the Australian government to take all necessary steps to ensure that Radio Australia regains immediate access to the transmitter. I call on the Australian government to make sufficient funds available immediately so that Radio Australia can access that transmitter.