Senator LUDWIG —(2.55 p.m.)—My question is to Senator Newman, the Minister for Family and Community Services. Does the minister recall that, in her so-called `seminal' address on welfare reform, she made the following statements about older Australians:

One group that especially concerns me is older working age people who have lost their jobs. The pain of restructuring in industry has fallen heavily on their shoulders . . . This is devastating, especially when it affects retirement plans . . . They are often discouraged by overt ageism in the workplace. Our community and our economy are weaker when we lose the valuable contribution these older people can make.

Can the minister confirm that one in five APS staff aged 55 and over were made redundant in 1998 and that over the last two years over 2,000 staff aged 55 and over have been sacked from the APS? How many older workers have been pushed out of the minister's own department in the last two years and what has she done to protect the interests of older workers?

Senator NEWMAN (Family and Community Services; Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Status of Women) —I did say that in the speech, and I am glad that the senator highlighted it. I stand by my concerns. I would think that any thinking person would be very concerned about the waste of talent that is currently taking place in Australia. It is more than just the effects of restructuring of businesses that I am concerned about—that, of course, is relevant. What I was really focussing on in that speech at that time was the fact that it is so difficult for those people to get back into work because of what I said is the `ageism' in some workplaces in Australia and the attitude in our country that devalues the experience and skills of older people.

I think there is a really strong need in our country to recognise that, in a variety of ways, older people can be brought more thoroughly into a meaningful role in society. I was giving examples, for instance, of mentoring young people and of being heavily involved in community services. I was interested to note when I was in China recently that this is one of the things that has been happening there with older workers; they are moved into community services. I think that they are things we should all be discussing, not fearmongering like the ALP has been doing.

Senator LUDWIG —Madam President, I ask a supplementary question. Is it not true that in June 1998 less than three per cent of employees in the minister's department were aged 55 and over, while the average across the APS is over six per cent? Is this how the government shows its compassion for older workers? When will the minister match her rhetoric with action on this issue?

Senator NEWMAN (Family and Community Services; Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Status of Women) —I do not know whether that stat is accurate or not, but I do know that we have changed the retirement age requirements so that people can work longer if they wish to. We have introduced a deferred pension plan for people. Our record is there to see.