Senator FORSHAW (3:22 PM) —I rise to add some remarks on the same matter. For the record, for the benefit of Senator Crane, I was actually acknowledging in my interjection that he is the chairman of the Senate committee. That is a matter of fact. But I have got to say that that is the only piece of fact that we have ever had out of this government in respect of this issue. What has clearly been evident is the inability of the minister in this chamber, Minister Macdonald, who sat here and listened to the first two speeches of the opposition senators but has left the chamber without even bothering to respond. In question time he was not able to answer the question and took it on notice but then had the temerity to suggest that maybe the information that was contained in the question from Senator O'Brien was not really factual.

Well, the facts are these. There is a serious issue here, and Minister Anderson needs to get hold of it very quickly. It is a fact that he should have been aware of the circumstances surrounding the Foley appointment, or at least the alarm bells should have been ringing on some of the issues that have arisen in regard to that appointment. He should have been aware, for instance, that in evidence to the Senate committee it was acknowledged that CASA director Mr Toller chose to interview Mr Foley alone. In his evidence, Mr Toller advised the committee that he had advised the then chairman, Dick Smith, that it would be inappropriate for a board member to participate in the Foley interview.

Senator O'Brien sought clarification of this issue, because that answer indeed contradicted an earlier answer that had been given on notice, which stated that Mr Toller and Mr Mick Wheatley interviewed Mr Foley. In estimates the question was taken on notice by Mr Toller, and subsequently he provided this answer:

The conversation—

that is, with Dick Smith—

occurred before I took up my appointment as director and while I clearly remember it I have no record of its date.

Mr Toller provided that written answer as CASA08. What Mr Toller failed to tell the Senate, however, was that the conversation also involved Mr Wes Willoughby—that is, the conversation with Mr Smith also involved a conversation with Mr Willoughby. Mr Toller failed to tell the Senate that and he also failed to recall that he had sent a minute to the CASA board on 1 July, advising the board that he, along with Dick Smith and Wes Willoughby, had decided to interview Mr Foley one on one—in order to, as Senator Mackay has pointed out, in Mr Toller's words, `negate any potential comment on board bias'.

It appears that that minute, No. 35, was prepared for the board meeting but was not considered by the board until 31 July. This process had been overseen by the entire board. On 15 May it endorsed a process to be followed in interviewing candidates for these particular jobs. The process was to involve a number of interview panels, with a board member sitting on each panel. But this minute suggests that the board decision was simply overturned by Mr Toller, Mr Dick Smith and Wes Willoughby because the process looked bad.

It looked bad if there was one board member and the director interviewing another board member for a senior, very well paid job. It looked bad then and it certainly looks a lot worse now. The alarm bells were ringing. They were ringing loudly for Mick Toller and they should have been ringing loudly for the Minister, Mr Anderson.

Just briefly, the second piece of information that should have alerted Mr Anderson was, as has already been referred to, the late decision taken by the board to add two further names to the interview list for the Foley job. Those two candidates were interviewed on 26 June. They were advised of their interviews only four days earlier and they received only half an hour and were then out the door. It is quite clear that no serious consideration was given in the interviews to their applications or to their appointment. They were just put in at the last minute to make up the numbers. As Mr Toller himself would acknowledge, the interview list had really closed one month earlier. (Time expired)