Senator WOODLEY —My question is addressed to Senator Alston, the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry. Is the minister aware of the statement in the Weekend Australian of 3-4 July that the National Competition Council is withholding $98 million in NCP payments to Queensland because of its stand against the deregulation of the dairy industry in that state? Does the minister agree with the statement by the Premier, Peter Beattie, that this action, based on an NCC report, is:

. . . economic rationalism gone mad and shows the NCC is out of control. It's a political payback against Queensland from the NCC because it doesn't agree with our attempts to humanise competition reform.

Can the minister assure the Senate that the funding has been or will be restored and that no retaliatory action will be taken against the Queensland government if they continue the maintenance of the farm gate price for whole milk in that state?

Senator ALSTON (Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) —I will get chapter and verse on that matter for Senator Woodley if it is of assistance to him. However, if he is asking me whether I agree that Mr Beattie should not be punished for speaking out in the way that he does, all I can say to him is that it sounds to me like classic grandstanding, like playing to the gallery—the `gallery' narrowly defined as being the ultimate owner of the Australian Labor Party; in other words, the trade union movement. He is quite clearly playing to those classic prejudices about economic rationalism that played quite well for the Labor Party, I suppose, in the eighties, but have got pretty tired these days. I do not think it has even the scaring power that it did once upon a time, and certainly it is no substitute for policy formulation.

But to characterise the National Competition Council as simply economic rationalism out of control because you disagree with a particular decision suggests that you are falling into precisely the same trap as Mr Beattie has done; in other words, you are not seriously interested in debating the merits of the issue and in finding out what might be in the best long-term interests of consumers and users in the dairy industry. I will see what I can find out for you, but I hope that next time around you will be prepared to look at the merits of the argument and not simply engage in sloganeering.

Senator WOODLEY —Madam President, I ask a supplementary question. Minister, are you aware that Mr Beattie was simply standing up for dairy farmers in his state? Are you also aware that the NCC is, as the Premier says, `out of control' and can you tell us whether this is due to the failure of the Council of Australian Governments to discuss competition policy since 1996? Could you assure the Senate that COAG will ensure that the NCC will not thwart Queensland's attempts to humanise competition reform?

Senator ALSTON (Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) —I do not think there is much point in getting any further information for Senator Woodley. He has made it plain that he is not interested. He does not even seem to be able to distinguish between opinion and fact. He wants me to agree with a proposition that the NCC is out of control, but that is simply a highly subjective assessment by a state premier who is obviously on the defensive—on the basis of recent events it may well be terminal—and who is not prepared to look at the long-term interests of consumers either. I do not know what you mean by `humanising competition policy' because competition policy is not an end in itself. It never has been and never should be. It should be all about trying to get the most efficient and effective outcomes in the interests of consumers. That is what it is about. It is not there simply to lock up the interests of a few protected species or to pander to those that you think need to get a good run in the media. I mean, standing up for dairy farmers is not in any shape or form what has been going on to date. (Time expired)